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Forum LockedSassanids vs Arabs

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sassanids vs Arabs
    Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 04:36

Hi,

 

In a recent discussion about how & why the Arabs conquered the Sassanids, somebody made a comment to me that I would like to verify.  Below you can see the person quoting me followed by his reply.  Is his reply is true?  Thanks.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellios

thx haj. i was just trying to figure out if the arabs felt that if they didn't conquer the sassanids the sassanids would eradicate them. thx again.


His reply: "No because you have to realize something, the arabs had nothing to even be conquered. look at alexander's empire, look at any empire of those times, they conquered all territory, skipping over arab land, which was modern day saudi arabia. because other than sand and a few animals and some bedouin tribes there was absolutely nothing there, not a building not a thing to be seen. thats why Islam was important for those Arab tribes, Islam provided an excuse for them to unite under one banner."



Edited by Hellios - 27-Sep-2006 at 05:06
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 05:34
The first part of his response is true, The arabian peninsula inclueded only sand and a few nomadic tribes. I add to this the superstitution of the people at this time has avoided them to go to the deserts.
 
"thats why Islam was important for those Arab tribes, Islam provided an excuse for them to unite under one banner."
 
well, by this part i must say this is his own opinion. Islam has united all arabic tribes, but with sword and violence. Specially jewish tribe must suffer under the new religion, they were converted with violence.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Darigh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 05:38
na, Jews like Bani Nazir tribe in Madine & other one has been beheaded by Mohammad
ei darigh az Irane man ke viran shavad
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LilLou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 07:47

If you look at the facts, there was no happy convert, islam or get your head chopped.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 11:39
Originally posted by Maziar

Specially jewish tribe must suffer under the new religion, they were converted with violence.
I think you overstepped the fact that with this "new religion", those Jewish tribes that "suffered" where the one that betrayed the treaty with the "Prophet" and co-operated with the invading Arab tribes. The jewish tribes of Yemen did not face any prosecution and they continued to live peacefully for over 1400 years and till now.  The "Prophet" died and his armor was mortgaged to a Jew of the Madinah, so I'm not sure how did he escape the so-claimed force conversion of Jewish tribes. You also again stress on one historically debated incident to built a concolusion that this "new religion" means a new era of prosecution, where actually it is the total opposite to the biased conclusion presented here. Refer back to Moorish Spain, Jews of Morocco and Syria, Jewish exodus from Europe to the Ottoman controlled areas and finally Jews of the Balkan, and compare them to the ill-treatment they received else where. Afterall, the biggest massacre of Jews in the history was not far from what you live in now Maziar.
 
Originally posted by LilLou

If you look at the facts, there was no happy convert, islam or get your head chopped.
Present those facts that you claim to have, to support this absurd statement of yours that "No happy convert" in Islam. After all, this is a history section of the forum, not a fiction one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LilLou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 13:32
In the q'uran, it says for all unbelievers(non-muslim) to be slaughtered wherever they could be found, many people instead of getting killed decided to convert to save their lives when the arabs took over the sassanids.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 17:37
Originally posted by çok geç

Originally posted by Maziar

Specially jewish tribe must suffer under the new religion, they were converted with violence.
I think you overstepped the fact that with this "new religion", those Jewish tribes that "suffered" where the one that betrayed the treaty with the "Prophet" and co-operated with the invading Arab tribes. The jewish tribes of Yemen did not face any prosecution and they continued to live peacefully for over 1400 years and till now.  The "Prophet" died and his armor was mortgaged to a Jew of the Madinah, so I'm not sure how did he escape the so-claimed force conversion of Jewish tribes. You also again stress on one historically debated incident to built a concolusion that this "new religion" means a new era of prosecution, where actually it is the total opposite to the biased conclusion presented here. Refer back to Moorish Spain, Jews of Morocco and Syria, Jewish exodus from Europe to the Ottoman controlled areas and finally Jews of the Balkan, and compare them to the ill-treatment they received else where. Afterall, the biggest massacre of Jews in the history was not far from what you live in now Maziar. 
 
It is not difficult to prevaricate the history or to give the false color to historical facts. No, difficult is to accept the truth. What can i say, if i read about rudeness of muslims to jews, from the very first years of Isalm until now? How can i close my eyes (and my mind) to the historical facts about slaughtering jews by the hands of Muslims? for sure they were not as horrible as the Houlocaust, but butchering is butchering.
 
We have discused this many times befor, didn't we? Neither you can convince me nor i you, so what to do now? lets each of us believe in what we like to believe.


Edited by Maziar - 27-Sep-2006 at 17:39
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 17:38
Oh does it now, you wouldn't have any sources to back up these ridiculous accusations would you.......
 
Arabs did not simply run around with big swords chopping off everybodies head, you have no understanding and knowledge about this period, this is a "history" forum not any Tom, Dick and Harry's place to invent biggoted porky pies.
 
At that period the poor were oppressed, Blacks didn't have a great time, Woman were material objects, there was huge social inequalities and no notion of juctice and human rights as we have come to expect as the norm today.
 
Islam for most of the average population was LIBERATION. Bilal a Black African was treated as an equal, freed and had a powerfull position. Infact many Black Africans had ihgh positions because positions were given on merit not on social statuses solely. The poor peoples rights were  protected, they were also financially protected from usury and extortionists. Woman were given rights and in the early years led prayers, were leaders, Clerics and so on. There were so many positiveaspects which are merely ignored.
 
Albanians, Bosnians, Turks, Malaysians, Indonesians, Berber-Magreb North Africans, Black Africans were NOT converted to Islam by any sword!!!
 
Jews enjoyed Golden Ages with Islamic civillisation, look at theearly Caliphs, Al-Andalus, the Ottomans, infact Jews and Muslims hardly had any problems till the era of WW1.
 
This anti-Arab racism and biggotry is getting to disgusting epidemeic proportions I'm just sick of it, everyone thinks they can get a word in and join the Caravan in attacking Arabs. Arabs were and ARE a great nation, this biggotry and ignorance about Arabs and stereotyping them all as bad is awfull.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 01:21
Originally posted by LilLou

In the q'uran, it says for all unbelievers(non-muslim) to be slaughtered wherever they could be found, many people instead of getting killed decided to convert to save their lives when the arabs took over the sassanids.
 
Ah, so you understood the verse better than most Muslim scholars. I wonder why they failed to slaughter the non-believers when they invaded the Sassanids. Oh by the way, maybe you can tell us why do we have Zoroastrains till now in Iran? or Why do we have Christians till now in Syria, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon? Egypt took hundred of years before Muslim population passed it to the majority. I guess they are good at hiding.
Please read the Muslim scholars interpretation of your verse instead of Jihadwatch.com and second hand processed information.
 
Originally posted by Maziar

What can i say, if i read about rudeness of muslims to jews, from the very first years of Isalm until now?
 
You over-stepped AGAIN my question. I mentioned to you Jews of Yemen who came under the Muslim domain during the life of the prophet. Why did he retaliate against the Jewish tribes of Madinah but not the one in Yemen? 
Also, you say the rudeness of Muslims to jews from "the very first years of Islam till now", then it must be a consistent rudeness. Which I again ask you to show a proof of this consistent behavior as you claim in HISTORICAL FACTS.
 
Originally posted by Maziar

  for sure they were not as horrible as the Houlocaust, but butchering is butchering.
You again take one debatable incident and shape it as the consistent behavior of Muslims. Butchering is Butchering? For some reason your theory suggest that the Jews were not so smart escaping from a European Butcherer to a Muslim Butcherer.
 
Originally posted by Maziar

  We have discused this many times befor, didn't we? Neither you can convince me nor i you, so what to do now? lets each of us believe in what we like to believe.
I am not here to change people minds. Im here just like any other member, to enjoy discussing real history and to oppose exaggerated claims and statements  of those who think they can lay those statements without any scrutiny.


Edited by çok geç - 28-Sep-2006 at 01:23
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Post Options Post Options   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 01:26
By the way, Hellois had a question regarding the Sassanid invasion. I actually can locate the first post that deviated the discussion away from the original question. If you would like to have a thread regarding atrocities in Islam of Jews and Quranic verses, then you can locate where this thread would fit properly. Definitely not under here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:09
Originally posted by çok geç

By the way, Hellois had a question regarding the Sassanid invasion. I actually can locate the first post that deviated the discussion away from the original question. If you would like to have a thread regarding atrocities in Islam of Jews and Quranic verses, then you can locate where this thread would fit properly. Definitely not under here.
 
That's very sad, you quote my post and give me answers, and now you take me away a posibility to answer you back, really sad...
 
But it's ok, you are the moderatore, i won't conteradict.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:19
Maziar, u never seem to get enough of anti-Islamic/Arabic propaganda, which u also call beliefLOL. The sassanians lost get over it.
 
 I think it is important to note that the early period till the caliphate of Ali is termed islamic, there onwards it is mulsim states and polities.
 
As for the original question, Hellios i think it has been kind of answered before in other topics, i would advise a search. I may even look it up and post it here.
 
Also it may help if you make clear as to what y mean by Arabs, is it a reference to the people or the geographical area of Arab  dispersion. Depending on which the answer may be a yes and no one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:52
I am someone who says his critics freely everywhere. And for sure i have the right to critisize islam too. If you want to dissmiss my critics as "anti-islamic" so i am so sorry for you.
How about more objectivity?


Edited by Maziar - 28-Sep-2006 at 12:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:42
Maziar, you of all people can't ask for objectivity, especially when you tenor has been consistantly anti-Islam and anti muslim  throughout the time you have been on this forum. You have a right to your opinions, but don't be surprised when they are challenged. Freedom of speech cuts both ways.
 
The Sassaniads Empire was born in battle and it died in battle. It ruled Arab lands as well. Now we can all admire its achievements and you can very legitamatly bask in reflected glory. But to portray it as some sort of holy land populated by angelic beings is ridculous.
 
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 15:39
Maziar, You claimed that Jewish tribes were forced to convert, and I asked you if you can explain then why do we have Jewish Yemani tribes or why at the death of the prophet would his armor be mortgaged to a Jew of Madinah?  You decided to switch claiming that there is consistent "rudness" and "butchering" of Jews by Muslims. I asked you for proof and  again you have chosen to over-step those questions. Does it matter now if you can answer or not?
I politely asked you to open a proper thread that discuss what you want to discuss and not deviate this topic to an anti-Islamic compaign. So you even had the option again to continue your irrelevant criticism in a new thread.  If you had any answers, you would have gladly opened that thread upon my request to provide the answers, but you didn't. Yet to hijack a thread, that is honestly what I see a really sad thing.
 
P.S: If I can hide the stars, I would have done that as I'm not the moderator of this section. Therefore count me as a regular member.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 15:51
When did the Arabs actually overthrow the Sassanids? Was it a long drawn out campaign, or a single battle? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 17:28
Originally posted by Adalwolf

When did the Arabs actually overthrow the Sassanids? Was it a long drawn out campaign, or a single battle? 
 
"The Persians were unprepared for the fury of the Islamic Arabs in the 7th century. The Sassanid dynasty of Persia ended in battle in 636. The Persians did not have a capital with defenses comparable to Constantinople. Muslim conquest of Persia was completed by 651."
 
"The Sassanid dynasty ended when Yazdegerd III lost a 14-year struggle to drive out the early Caliphate (the first of the islamic empires).".
 


Edited by Hellios - 28-Sep-2006 at 17:52
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 18:44
Thanks for the information!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 01:46
Yes I think "His" reply is accurate. The big empires, Sassanids, Romans and Ethiopia avoided the barren peninsular mostly. Staying to the fertile ground around it in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Yeman.
Ethiopia did attack Mecca in 570 to be defeated by the Quraish, and Justinian nearly led the Romans in an attack against the Hijaz. But there really wasn't any reason to conqurer it.

Even the Ottomans didn't bother to control the desert. The only places of signifcance are Mecca and Medina, and before Islam, or to non-muslims, they aren't worth the effort.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 02:27
The Hijaz was part of the Roman province of Arabia patrea.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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