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Forum LockedRussian Archaeologists Discover Ancient Chieftain

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Russian Archaeologists Discover Ancient Chieftain
    Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 04:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 10:20
a very nice tattoo.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 11:15
He is ,really,very well preserved.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AyKurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 11:20
Beautiful. 
 
Leonardo, do you have a clearer picture of the tattoo?  It appears to be a deer or a horse.
 
It would be interesting if they tried to reconstruct the face, since many people of the pazyryk culture had characteristics of both the Caucasoid type and Mongoloid type.  Remember the Ice Maiden.  She had blonde hair and when they tried to reconstruct her face in Moscow, they made her appear very caucasian.  In Switzerland they also done a reconstruction of the skull where the pathologist Rudolph Hauri concluded that she had hints of a more mongoloid origin.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 11:42
Originally posted by DayI

a very nice tattoo.
I was thinking the same exact thing.
Looks like his hair is blonde, does hair color fade of this many years, or would it stay the same color for years on end?
Edit:nevermind about my question, just read the article. lol Guess thats what I get for not reading first.


Edited by SearchAndDestroy - 11-Feb-2007 at 11:44
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 16:50
Another tattoo from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk
 
Image:Scythian%20tatoo.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2007 at 18:10
His face is a little bit wide and he has a squre jaw, possible mixture of mongoliod and caucasoid.  Does anybody know about his hair color or genetic marker?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2007 at 18:35
That article doesn't say anything.

Shinai, you are saying anyone with a square jaw is mongoloid? I wonder where these blond Mongoloid/Caucasoids have gotten to these days.

That aside - the task of reconstructing Tutenkhamun's face was given to a group of specialists who didn't know who it was supposed to be - they returned with a face that looked caucasoid, of the NA type - another group who were told who it was meant to be, using the same skull came back with a face that looks African American

So it seems that it is very subjective.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AyKurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2007 at 19:13
Originally posted by Zagros

I wonder where these blond Mongoloid/Caucasoids have gotten to these days.
 
 
 
 
Blonde hair is caused by a recessive gene that a person has to recieve from both parents otherwise the dominant gene will prevail such as the phenotype for dark hair.  A person can have blonde hair even if both parents have dark hair because both parents carried the recessive gene and passed it on to the child. 
 
Its possible that this chieftan or the Ice Maiden could have had mongoloid parents but a blonde grandparent from both sides which resulted in the blonde hair as well as both mongoloid and caucasoid characteristics.  Given the high interrelationship between caucasoid and mongoloid steppe nomads at the time then this is a very high probability.
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tar Szerénd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 10:11
Hi!
 
Any infos about his weapons?
 
TSZ


Edited by Tar Szerénd - 17-Feb-2007 at 10:12
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 14:14
Originally posted by AyKurt

Originally posted by Zagros

I wonder where these blond Mongoloid/Caucasoids have gotten to these days.
 
 
 
 
Blonde hair is caused by a recessive gene that a person has to recieve from both parents otherwise the dominant gene will prevail such as the phenotype for dark hair.  A person can have blonde hair even if both parents have dark hair because both parents carried the recessive gene and passed it on to the child. 
 
Its possible that this chieftan or the Ice Maiden could have had mongoloid parents but a blonde grandparent from both sides which resulted in the blonde hair as well as both mongoloid and caucasoid characteristics.  Given the high interrelationship between caucasoid and mongoloid steppe nomads at the time then this is a very high probability.
 
I have seen a report in German TV about that girl. Her blond hair has attract the scholars to find out her heritage. They said her tribe isn't mongoloid by origin and she is maybe of Indoiranian-Skythian stock. Sorry but there is no such thing as mongoloid-Caucasian race.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AyKurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 17:19
Originally posted by Maziar

 
I have seen a report in German TV about that girl. Her blond hair has attract the scholars to find out her heritage. They said her tribe isn't mongoloid by origin and she is maybe of Indoiranian-Skythian stock. Sorry but there is no such thing as mongoloid-Caucasian race.
 
wow.  That explains it all, shes indo-european.  well done Thumbs%20Up Clap
 
Actually i never said theres a caucasian-Mongoloid race, whatever that means.  I said its not uncommon at the time for the people to have mongoloid and caucasoid characteristics.  This girl as well as the bodies found are proof of that.  Like I said, not uncommon given the gene flow among caucasiod and mongoloid steppe nomads.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 19:19
I had neighbors who had a daughter that basicly just looked like a blonde European girl, the mother was actually often asked if she was a maid or babysitter. She was a Filipino asian and he was White. I'm guiessing she had European gene's far back and was the reason they had basicly a White child.
But my question is, is Blonde only related and from a European gene? Because this child did not look mixed in anyway, she looked like she was only of European stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonny Starcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2007 at 04:43
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

I had neighbors who had a daughter that basicly just looked like a blonde European girl, the mother was actually often asked if she was a maid or babysitter. She was a Filipino asian and he was White. I'm guiessing she had European gene's far back and was the reason they had basicly a White child.
But my question is, is Blonde only related and from a European gene? Because this child did not look mixed in anyway, she looked like she was only of European stock.


B-dominating gen ( black hair)
b- recessive gen ( blond hair )
TABLE
      MEN| B | b | - he has black hair, B is active, b- don't works
WOMAN| B | B | - Asian has two B dominating gens.

Kids will get gen one from father, and one from mother: BB 50%chance, Bb 50% chance.

Kids can get blond hair only from two recessive gens bb, so mother has one, so she has it from European ancestor, and father has one - if he has black hair or two -if he has blond hair. There is just one solution - she had European ancestor.Shocked


Edited by Jonny Starcraft - 20-Feb-2007 at 04:44
Kaczyński is the biggest LOSER. HiS handicapped clone too!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2007 at 10:37
The Child I'm talking about came out completely European, it was kind of amazing. She's never asked if she is the mother her daughter, atleast in the stories she told us about.
So if both lines have the blode gene generations up from those who had blonde ahir, it's possible for the child to be born with it?
 
Lets say a White Man marries a Asian women and a Asian Man Marries a White women, for five generations both pair's children marry only Asians. By the sixth generation the children of both Lineages marry. Can their children come out blonde, and if so, does the skin color come with the hair color, in others words european looking?
Will the original Male's DNA meeting the original females from the other line have any influence? Thats if a line of males go back to the original male and the line of females go back to the original female.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ariston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2007 at 11:20

RECONSTRUCTION OF THE GENOFOND PECULIARITIES OF THE ANCIENT PAZYRYK POPULATION (I-II MILLENIUM BC) FROM GORNY ALTAI ACCORDING TO THE MTDNA STRUCTURE.

The rest mitotypes display a greater number of positions with substitutions. Virtually identical data were obtained for representatives of Western-Siberian Finno-Ugric peoples (Khanty, Mansi, Komi, and Mari).

Qualitatively, the mitotype 3 corresponds to the European haplogroup 5. The data presently available suggest that this haplogroup is characterized by a low frequency all over the Europe and occur in different countries of the continent and in the Near East. An increase of its frequency in Finnish people was reported.

http://www.bionet.nsc.ru/bgrs/thesis/99/index.html

Pazyryk people were Finno-Ugrians!

Permian (Komi) Bjarmland was a rich culture and also mentioned in Sagas.

THE PERMIAN ANIMAL STYLE

http://folklore.ee/folklore/vol18/permian.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarmaland

and also Linzi people were Finno-Ugrian:

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/17/9/1396.pdf
 
Edit: fonts fixed.


Edited by Hellios - 20-Feb-2007 at 15:08
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tar Szerénd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 07:39
Hi!
 
Some of the kipchaks were known in Europe as Fakók, Falben, Polovici etc. These means pales, faints. Some of their tribes had sari origin (the "whites"). So faint and blond hair was common in Asia of the middle ages too.
 
TSZ
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Post Options Post Options   Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 09:14

In Chınese resources it is reported that kyrghis of middle ages were all yellow haired and blue- eyed. I've read it in Karoly Czegledy's book.He is a Magyar historian.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 09:20

Turkish speaking populations are from different genetic groups. And Ural-Altai is a term of language, not race. I think ın central Asia different populations had mixed.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 09:23
Molecular genetic analysis of mitochondrial DNA of representatives of from the Pazyryk culture of Altai (IV-II centuries B.C.)]
< =1.2 ="http://adv.medscape.com/js.ng/ord%3D1172153745826%26adsize%3D300x250%26site%3Dmscp%26pos%3Dtop%26pf%3D11%26sp%3D38%26ct%3Dtr%26cb%3Dmed%26mpg%3Dmedline" =text/>

Voevoda MI; Sitnikova VV; Chikisheva TA; Romashchenko AG; Polos'mak NV; Molodin VI; Derevianko AP; ShumnyÄ­ VK

I found this article  abut Pazyryk culture. But I couldn't reach the original text. Maybe someone from Russia can help us.

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