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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 16:45
Hello to you all
 
Sorry it took me so long to prepare a response the last four weeks especially the last week were a mess but now we are at eid beark and I am back at home and will be able to answer all your questions.
 
As for your question eaglecap about who goes to hell and why, well first and fore mst you ust understand this. It is not for you or me to decide who goes to where or why, indeed even the prophet said that it is God's grace responsible for entering paradise not pious work. In principle, any one who got and heard the message of Islam and completely comprehended it on its true form will indeed go to hell if he/she do not embrace Islam. Embracing Islam happens only when one chooses and forced conversions are not lawful. People who did not recieve the message of Islam are under God's grace, if he wishes to punish them or save them because the essense of Islam, which few people know, is that humans and all their belongings are the ownership of God; they are god's slaves and since we are slaves for god we have no choice but to obey what he orders us to do even if we feel that some judgments are harsh.
 
As for trinity, well I know what trinity is but which version do you mean. Since most arabic theological writings, which I read, are either Catholic or Orthodox I can explain them in Arabic but I do not have the proper language to translate into english. But what I understood from these writings, I read them almost 8 years ago when I was only 16, is that the trinity in its essense is the believe in the Oness of God who has a unity of three parts, excuse me for my primative theology, jesus, the holy spirit and th Father all are indivisble parts of this one trinity.
hope I gave you a good answer.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2007 at 22:49
Sorry I have not had time for this with my research on Manzikert and other things. I know Norm Geislar is an expert on the Trinity. He also wrote a book titled "When Critics Ask" but it is spendy   so I will wait. He is also the author of "Answering Islam" and from what I understand he knows classical Arabic, Koine Greek and probably ancient Hebrew. The community college here offers a course in classical Arabic.

I know you do not have the freedoms we have towards religion and Bibles are taken away at the airports in Saudi Arabia and destroyed so I doubt if you can get any of the above books. Tell me if this is not true.

http://www.discountchristian.com/geisler.html



Edited by eaglecap - 17-Oct-2007 at 23:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 11:43
Its not true.

Please eaglecap after spending so long on AE tell me why you haven't developed a bullsh it* filter? The ability to tell the difference between agenda pushing pseudo-science and intelligent discussion?

And for your information I have a bible on my bookshelf. It was my great-grandmothers on my mothers-fathers side, who was also the last christian in my family tree.

*stupid swearing filter


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 18-Oct-2007 at 11:44
"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 21:59

Not trying to upset or offend you but calling it like it is and I do not have an agenda but no need to name call or make it personal. The swear filter??? I don't swear myself especially thousand of miles away from someone- lol
There were cases of people having their Bibles taken away and thrown in the trash at the Saudi Airport by customs. Give me some time and I will find those stories. I would like to be proven wrong because I would like to believe that Saudi Arabia believes in freedom of religion.
I Know people have Bibles in Turkey and some book sellers have them but if a missionary passes them out they are likely to get into hot water- www.persecution.org Do not forget I was in Turkey and I talked to Christian Turks there, people who converted to the Christian faith. I gave a Bible in Turkish to a friend and had no problems there but I was not intending on converting her or anyone. I read to Qu'ran sometimes.
Persecution.org is a Protestant Christian organization that documents persecution on Christians by a variety of groups, even by communist and Roman Catholics towards Prostestants.

We have different cultural and religious influences so it might be easy to misunderstand each other. I should not waste my time in these threads since it only ends up in fighting but I suggest reading the above book by Geislar and if you have any books suggestions tell me.





Edited by eaglecap - 18-Oct-2007 at 22:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 22:30
Hello eaglecap
 
Throughing bibles in trash is blasphamy.
 
Turkey is a country with laws and regulations, if I were to setup a stand in the middle of Spokane or Walla Walla (I never thought I will ever use this name ) and handed Qurans and started preaching, I doubt that city or state government would let me continue if I did not get a permit which in my opinion is what is happening in Turkey. As for Geisler, never heard the name nor read the book, since school will start next Saturday and exams are not far I will not be able to look for the guy but when I am fully free in about 3 weeks I will search for him and answer you. 
 
I wrote a response on another post you made and I really like to see you answer it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2007 at 00:01
It is not illegal to hand out Qu'rans, book of Mormons, Bibles or whatever as long as it is not profane literature it is perfectly legal and protected by the US constitution, freedom of religion. Now selling them would require a buisness permit for a small fee but that applies to anything.

Although the case of the gideons being arrested for handing out Bibles in front of a public school was sickening, it thrown out of court. I am afraid this will happen more and more often since there is a growing anti Christian atmosphere in the USA

I am happy to hear that it is wrong to throw Bibles into a trash cans and I believe this is the case in most Muslim countries. The stories I read were out of Saudi Arabia and maybe these were isolated incidences.

I want to take that classical Arabic class at the commuity college. What is the best Qu'ran to read tranlation wise?

Oh Spokane and Walla Walla are not English but Native American- Salish
Walla Walla - land of many waters.

Spokan-e - children of the sun

Edited by eaglecap - 19-Oct-2007 at 01:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2007 at 02:34
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Persecution.org is a Protestant Christian organization that documents persecution on Christians by a variety of groups, even by communist and Roman Catholics towards Prostestants.
 
Just out of curiosity, do they also document incidents where Protestants are guilty of persecuting their fellow Christians? If so, bravo; if not, blech. Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2007 at 17:25
Originally posted by Akolouthos Akolouthos wrote:

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Persecution.org is a Protestant Christian organization that documents persecution on Christians by a variety of groups, even by communist and Roman Catholics towards Prostestants.

 

Just out of curiosity, do they also document incidents where Protestants are guilty of persecuting their fellow Christians? If so, bravo; if not, blech. Wink

 

-Akolouthos


I have never seen this but I would be happy to see this in current events but so far I have not. I know the Orthodox do not like Protestant missionaries coming into Russia but I have never read about any persecution of Protestants there.
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 05:46
Al Jassas
I went ahead and answered in the other thread, but here is something to help you clarify misunderstandings about the Christian faith.
Are you in Saudi Arabia and if not then what country do you live in?

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Basics/index.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 06:28
Quote I know the Orthodox do not like Protestant missionaries coming into Russia but I have never read about any persecution of Protestants there.

Protestant Missionaries are not allowed in Russia. IIRC Except for 5(?) religions (Orthodox Christianity, Catholic Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, and maybe one or two others including traditional steppe beliefs) religion is banned or at least highly discouraged.
"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 21:14
I am Saudi and never left the country. I am of Bedouin ancestry and my tribe in known for support to the ruling Royal family since he late 18th century. We spelt precious blood fighting the Ottomans in all their invasions and scored glorious victories that are immortalized in song and verse to this day. Why do you ask?
By the way, the guy that I use his name in a pre-Islamic christian anti-hero or hero depending where you look and he belongs to the same tribe as my mother.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 22:14
^LOL
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 23:17
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

I am Saudi and never left the country. I am of Bedouin ancestry and my tribe in known for support to the ruling Royal family since he late 18th century. We spelt precious blood fighting the Ottomans in all their invasions and scored glorious victories that are immortalized in song and verse to this day. Why do you ask?
By the way, the guy that I use his name in a pre-Islamic christian anti-hero or hero depending where you look and he belongs to the same tribe as my mother.

 

Al-Jassas


I was curious because with many users they are not always in the country their ID shows.
My ancestors also fought the Ottomans and other Turkish tribes for centuries-Byzantine Greeks- Also the Arabs and Crusaders, Franks, Kelts, Latins Slavs etc etc

Edited by eaglecap - 02-Nov-2007 at 23:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 18:32
I am sorry Al Jassas - I have been too busy to answer these important questions but give me time and I will get back to you. Answering Islam by Norman Geislar is a well reearched and a very intellectual book to read but can you get books like that in Saudi Arabia? I know that you do not have the religous freedoms we have in the United States. I once asked someone from the United Emirates if it was true that the penalty for converting to Christianity or any other religion was death in some Muslim countries and he told me, "YES!!" He was passing out material at the university about Islam to get converts to Islam, which is a protected right in my country- First Amendment in the U.S. Constitution. Athough some radical liberals want to Bible to become hate speech since it speaks out against the homosexual lifestyle - a topic for another thread people.



Edited by eaglecap - 16-Nov-2007 at 18:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 20:03
Hello eaglecap
 
I looked for the guy, read some interviews about the subject and I was not impressed. The guy obviously,from what I read, knows nothing about Arabic or else why did he need to get the help of Abdul-Saleeb (worshipper of the cross is the meaning of his name). His knowledge about Islamic theology is not impressive and rather weak. I did not read the book and I would appreciate it if you could find me an electronic version of the book so I could read it and reply on it. I may be wrong about him but I cannot give any judgement untill I read some of his work.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 01:17
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

It is not illegal to hand out Qu'rans, book of Mormons, Bibles or whatever as long as it is not profane literature it is perfectly legal and protected by the US constitution, freedom of religion. Now selling them would require a buisness permit for a small fee but that applies to anything.

Although the case of the gideons being arrested for handing out Bibles in front of a public school was sickening, it thrown out of court. I am afraid this will happen more and more often since there is a growing anti Christian atmosphere in the USA

I am happy to hear that it is wrong to throw Bibles into a trash cans and I believe this is the case in most Muslim countries. The stories I read were out of Saudi Arabia and maybe these were isolated incidences.

I want to take that classical Arabic class at the commuity college. What is the best Qu'ran to read tranlation wise?

Oh Spokane and Walla Walla are not English but Native American- Salish
Walla Walla - land of many waters.

Spokan-e - children of the sun



PM, or ask Seko, he knows two recently peer translated copies into English that are supposed to be very good.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 19:52
I am not sure if he knows Arabic or not- I thought he did but I can email their organization. He does know ancient Greek and Hebrew though. I will check! I have read his book on Logic and Answering Islam and he is a scholar. He also authored a book about Philosophy -Christian. I will also check for an electronic version. I have my copy of the Qu'ran from Penguin books. Keep it on the top shelf with important books such as the Bible,Illiad, the Alexiad and others.

Edited by eaglecap - 19-Nov-2007 at 19:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 04:19
Those two copies are much more recent and meant for an English audience.


What translation do you have?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2007 at 01:38
Penguin books but let me look up the name of the translator

Edited by eaglecap - 01-Dec-2007 at 03:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Killabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2007 at 00:09
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

I am Saudi and never left the country. I am of Bedouin ancestry and my tribe in known for support to the ruling Royal family since he late 18th century. We spelt precious blood fighting the Ottomans in all their invasions and scored glorious victories that are immortalized in song and verse to this day. Why do you ask?
By the way, the guy that I use his name in a pre-Islamic christian anti-hero or hero depending where you look and he belongs to the same tribe as my mother.
 
Al-Jassas
 
I didn't know you are still living in Saudi. I thought you are living abroad like other Arab expatriate. I am very impressed by your broad knowledge of World History especially Western and Middle-Eastern and your excellence command of English which is not your native language all at the age of 24Thumbs%20Up


Edited by Killabee - 30-Nov-2007 at 00:13
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