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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 01:50
Originally posted by Eaglecap Eaglecap wrote:

and nobody has really made an attempt to answer them


Why do I get a feeling I'm being ignored? I mean, I even used exactly the same structure as the question.
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Hello to you all;

 

I read your response well eaglecap and I hope you read mine but first I’ll answer your first question on how the Bible was corrupted.

 

First and understand this carefully, the only true religion in the eyes of God is “Islam” according to muslims. This “Islam” is the one mentioned in the verse إن الدين عند الله الإسلام"  "Surat Al-Imran (II), and it includes both Judaism and Christianity as they were forwarded by different prophets of the two religions to their people. If the message that is found in the Bible is different from that of the Quran is in issues concerning laws than most likely no corruption has happened since different prophet come with different laws. However, if the difference is in theological matters than muslims firmly believe that corruption to the text did indeed happen because all these religion though they may differ in legal matters MUST agree on the theological system if they truly came fro the same God. Anyone who knows all three religions will acknowledge that there is serious difference in some of the main theological aspect of them and here are three prime examples for you:

 

1-     The alleged wrestling match (Genesis 25-35) between God and Jacob PBUH directly conflicts with the Islamic belief that God Almighty is the All knowing All Powerful All Merciful creator of the heaven and earth that  He must be dignified from all earthly weaknesses of humans. The existence of this incident in the Bible makes the muslims believe that the Bible is corrupted since such a wrestling match definitely did not happen. Believing this story is considered blasphemous in Islam.

2-     The alleged idolatry of the prophet Solomon PBUH (Kings 11) directly contradicts with the doctrine of infallibility of prophets which is a cornerstone of Islam since all prophets should naturally worship the God that sent them and deliver god’s message without reservation or alteration. Believing this story is also considered blasphemous and thus muslims accept that corruption did indeed happen to the Bible.

3-     The doctrine of Original Sin conflicts with both Muslim and Jewish doctrines of individual responsibility for ones own sins and that sins are acquired not inherited. What Adam PBUH did in paradise was his own fault not Eve nor their offspring. Similar to it the crucifixion of Jesus Christ PBUH which conflicts with the Quran.

 

As for why was the bible corrupted it is quite simple. Different religious groups within Judaism and Christianity had to assert the legitimacy of their views using the only legitimate source, the Bible. If were on the right track the did not need to corrupt the bible but if their views were blasphemous then they had to corrupt the Bible. What makes the matter worse is there was not a standardized way to preserve the bible and hand it down to next generation. The conflict between different tribes, states and religious figures made corruption the cheapest trick to assert the authority especially that the handling of the Bible was kept out of the majority of the people. For example, to legitimize the worship of idols along with God (Baal for example) in later centuries when some Jewish kings or foreign occupiers forced the jews to do so Solomon PBUH was chosen (because he had lots of idolater wives) to be transformed into the figure that was mentioned in Kings 11 (an idol worshiper) despite it contradicts the picture that was painted about him earlier (King 8-9) as a very devout worshiper of Yahweh (God) and thus legitimizing the stance of those kings. Trinity, original sin and many other doctrines of the Christian faith were inserted into the Bible by those in the minority who wanted to harmonize Christianity with the belief system the Roman Empire’s elite.

 

As for when the Bible was corrupted I think it was an accumulation throughout the ages with changes introduced when necessary. And no, there was no consensus on corrupting the Bible, each group did its own “small” alteration taking the chance that the original text was lost. Modern Bible scholars almost unanimously agree that the current Bible was written by different People in different times throughout the ages.

I hope you find the answer here in this post and if you are not satisfies please tell me so and I will try to explain more. Thank you.

 

Al-Jassas ibn Murrah       

 

  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 11:27
Hello to you all.
 
where are you eaglecap I have not heard from you in some time. Please if you have any question about my last post or you think that I have not answered your questions post and I will be more than happy to reply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2007 at 01:41

You sound like a nice person. These questions will take a little time to answer and since my time on a computer is limtited I apologize for not getting back to you.
1-     The alleged wrestling match (Genesis 25-35) between God and Jacob PBUH directly conflicts with the Islamic belief that God Almighty is the All knowing All Powerful All Merciful creator of the heaven and earth that He must be dignified from all earthly weaknesses of humans. The existence of this incident in the Bible makes the muslims believe that the Bible is corrupted since such a wrestling match definitely did not happen. Believing this story is considered blasphemous in Islam.

I will have to look at this again but I do recall it was a dream.

2-     The alleged idolatry of the prophet Solomon PBUH (Kings 11) directly contradicts with the doctrine of infallibility of prophets which is a cornerstone of Islam since all prophets should naturally worship the God that sent them and deliver god’s message without reservation or alteration. Believing this story is also considered blasphemous and thus muslims accept that corruption did indeed happen to the Bible.

Jews nor Christians believe a Prophet is fallible because they are humans and subject to human weakness, only God is above that. David was a man with human desires and weakness.

3-     The doctrine of Original Sin conflicts with both Muslim and Jewish doctrines of individual responsibility for ones own sins and that sins are acquired not inherited. What Adam PBUH did in paradise was his own fault not Eve nor their offspring. Similar to it the crucifixion of Jesus Christ PBUH which conflicts with the Quran.

I have Jewish friends so I will ask them but the garden of Eden is a story of man's fall and how a curse was put on man for their choice. Given time I am sure I can find many versus in the Torah that support this.
I do not think you can fully understand the Torah or Testement w/o an understanding of anceint Hebrew or Greek so that is a weakness are most Christian and Jews take part in.

I have seen literature from Arab Muslims and it is funny how the use versus from both Protestant Bibles and Jehovah witness Bibles, the latter is considered a cult and false belief by the mainstream church. I am not a Bible scholar so it will take time to challenge this but frankly you are free to believe what you want. Given time I can also show errors in the Qu'ran. I am glad I live in America where I can do that w/o being killed.

Now this sounds like an opinion so please support it with sources. Remember there are liberal and conservative Biblical scholars and their opinions often contrast.
As for why was the bible corrupted it is quite simple. Different religious groups within Judaism and Christianity had to assert the legitimacy of their views using the only legitimate source, the Bible. If were on the right track the did not need to corrupt the bible but if their views were blasphemous then they had to corrupt the Bible. What makes the matter worse is there was not a standardized way to preserve the bible and hand it down to next generation. The conflict between different tribes, states and religious figures made corruption the cheapest trick to assert the authority especially that the handling of the Bible was kept out of the majority of the people. For example, to legitimize the worship of idols along with God (Baal for example) in later centuries when some Jewish kings or foreign occupiers forced the jews to do so Solomon PBUH was chosen (because he had lots of idolater wives) to be transformed into the figure that was mentioned in Kings 11 (an idol worshiper) despite it contradicts the picture that was painted about him earlier (King 8-9) as a very devout worshiper of Yahweh (God) and thus legitimizing the stance of those kings. Trinity, original sin and many other doctrines of the Christian faith were inserted into the Bible by those in the minority who wanted to harmonize Christianity with the belief system the Roman Empire’s elite.

check out Norm Geislar



Edited by eaglecap - 02-Sep-2007 at 12:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 11:24
Hello eaglecap
 
Alas it is September and school is just about to start and the number of my posts will be reduced but i will try as best as I could to post whenever is possible.
 
As for your reply, what really caught my attention and surprised me the most is you denying infalliability ever existed in Jewish or christian doctrine which is absolutely wrong. Papal infalliability (and subsequent result of supremecy) is the corner stone of the catholic faith as put by the Vatican counsil I. I can even dare say the the catholic church doesn't matter what you believe the nature of christ is or the power of the clergy if you believe that the pope is God's "agent" on earth, or more correctly God Himself on earth. I don't know about what the jews believe in this matter but without infalliability, the pope will just be what he really is and what he really was, the Bishop of Rome. Last time I checkd the pope was still inferior to prophets (who recieve divine revelation unlike him) according to the catholic church.
Finally, about Muslims "twisting" protestant bible verses to justify Islam well, sorry to be the one to tell you about that but it was Jewish and Christian converts to Islam who were the first to use quotes from the bible not muslim scholar. In fact those claim that the reason for their conversion was that they found proof of the prophet's existance in the bible and searched, found and then converted to Islam. The first case was that of Salman Al-Farisi, a companion of the prophet who was Nestorian and went all the way from present day Fars to Madina in search of the prophet. One of the famous jews who wrote a lenghty treatise was Samuel ben Yahya, a moroccan jew who went on a spritual journey and then converted to Sunni Islam, he was also a famous mathematician both before and After conversion.
As for Jehovah's witnesses, I know little about them and from that I dare say they are far more christian than the pope himself. Their Bible translations is the best since they did a literal translation and did not twist the source to fit the dogma as other translations (including Standard King James which I have). By the way, I am what some call "wahhabi" muslim which is a grievous error and not a witness. As for saying the Quran was wrong, well, the Najran christians challenged the Prophet Muhammad's  authority him his own mosque and he did nothing. Your not muslim and you must believe that to be one.
 
Al-Jassas    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 17:52
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Hello eaglecap
 
Alas it is September and school is just about to start and the number of my posts will be reduced but i will try as best as I could to post whenever is possible.
 
As for your reply, what really caught my attention and surprised me the most is you denying infalliability ever existed in Jewish or christian doctrine which is absolutely wrong. Papal infalliability (and subsequent result of supremecy) is the corner stone of the catholic faith as put by the Vatican counsil I. I can even dare say the the catholic church doesn't matter what you believe the nature of christ is or the power of the clergy if you believe that the pope is God's "agent" on earth, or more correctly God Himself on earth. I don't know about what the jews believe in this matter but without infalliability, the pope will just be what he really is and what he really was, the Bishop of Rome. Last time I checkd the pope was still inferior to prophets (who recieve divine revelation unlike him) according to the catholic church.
Finally, about Muslims "twisting" protestant bible verses to justify Islam well, sorry to be the one to tell you about that but it was Jewish and Christian converts to Islam who were the first to use quotes from the bible not muslim scholar. In fact those claim that the reason for their conversion was that they found proof of the prophet's existance in the bible and searched, found and then converted to Islam. The first case was that of Salman Al-Farisi, a companion of the prophet who was Nestorian and went all the way from present day Fars to Madina in search of the prophet. One of the famous jews who wrote a lenghty treatise was Samuel ben Yahya, a moroccan jew who went on a spritual journey and then converted to Sunni Islam, he was also a famous mathematician both before and After conversion.
As for Jehovah's witnesses, I know little about them and from that I dare say they are far more christian than the pope himself. Their Bible translations is the best since they did a literal translation and did not twist the source to fit the dogma as other translations (including Standard King James which I have). By the way, I am what some call "wahhabi" muslim which is a grievous error and not a witness. As for saying the Quran was wrong, well, the Najran christians challenged the Prophet Muhammad's  authority him his own mosque and he did nothing. Your not muslim and you must believe that to be one.
 
Al-Jassas    
 
I know that this post is quite off-topic as the focus is on "Questions for Muslims" but I couldnt resist clarifying a few things.
 
Hello Al Jassass, you seem to misunderstand the nature of the Pope, and the Catholic Church in general, immensely. If youd like to learn more on the subject Id refer you to the thread that Akolothous started that focuses on the Pope and his responsibilites, there is some very good content from some very enlightened forumers there.
 
On the subject of the Jehovah's Witnesses. You say that the JW have the best translated Bible. Id like to know how and why you believe this? They do use in fact a type of "in house" Bible called the New World Translation (NWT) which is regarded by Greek and Hebrew scholars as a extraordinarly poor and highly inaccurate translation. There are many places in which it is not faithful to the Hebrew and Greek, especially where the text fails to support and often contradicts their doctrines. Furthermore, the five members of the translation committee for the NWT lack credentials as Bible scholars, four of them never studied Bible languages and the fifth studied non-Biblical Greek for a short period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 18:22
Originally posted by arch.buff arch.buff wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Hello eaglecap
 

Alas it is September and school is just about to start and the number of my posts will be reduced but i will try as best as I could to post whenever is possible.

 

As for your reply, what really caught my attention and surprised me the most is you denying infalliability ever existed in Jewish or christian doctrine which is absolutely wrong. Papal infalliability (and subsequent result of supremecy) is the corner stone of the catholic faith as put by the Vatican counsil I. I can even dare say the the catholic church doesn't matter what you believe the nature of christ is or the power of the clergy if you believe that the pope is God's "agent" on earth, or more correctly God Himself on earth. I don't know about what the jews believe in this matter but without infalliability, the pope will just be what he really is and what he really was, the Bishop of Rome. Last time I checkd the pope was still inferior to prophets (who recieve divine revelation unlike him) according to the catholic church.

Finally, about Muslims "twisting" protestant bible verses to justify Islam well, sorry to be the one to tell you about that but it was Jewish and Christian converts to Islam who were the first to use quotes from the bible not muslim scholar. In fact those claim that the reason for their conversion was that they found proof of the prophet's existance in the bible and searched, found and then converted to Islam. The first case was that of Salman Al-Farisi, a companion of the prophet who was Nestorian and went all the way from present day Fars to Madina in search of the prophet. One of the famous jews who wrote a lenghty treatise was Samuel ben Yahya, a moroccan jew who went on a spritual journey and then converted to Sunni Islam, he was also a famous mathematician both before and After conversion.

As for Jehovah's witnesses, I know little about them and from that I dare say they are far more christian than the pope himself. Their Bible translations is the best since they did a literal translation and did not twist the source to fit the dogma as other translations (including Standard King James which I have). By the way, I am what some call "wahhabi" muslim which is a grievous error and not a witness. As for saying the Quran was wrong, well, the Najran christians challenged the Prophet Muhammad's  authority him his own mosque and he did nothing. Your not muslim and you must believe that to be one.

 

Al-Jassas    

 

I know that this post is quite off-topic as the focus is on "Questions for Muslims" but I couldnt resist clarifying a few things.

 

Hello Al Jassass, you seem to misunderstand the nature of the Pope, and the Catholic Church in general, immensely. If youd like to learn more on the subject Id refer you to the thread that Akolothous started that focuses on the Pope and his responsibilites, there is some very good content from some very enlightened forumers there.

 

On the subject of the Jehovah's Witnesses. You say that the JW have the best translated Bible. Id like to know how and why you believe this? They do use in fact a type of "in house" Bible called the New World Translation (NWT) which is regarded by Greek and Hebrew scholars as a extraordinarly poor and highly inaccurate translation. There are many places in which it is not faithful to the Hebrew and Greek, especially where the text fails to support and often contradicts their doctrines. Furthermore, the five members of the translation committee for the NWT lack credentials as Bible scholars, four of them never studied Bible languages and the fifth studied non-Biblical Greek for a short period.


My time is limited on the computer so it is hard to get to this questions but I will do my best. In the meantime here is something to check out. I copied and pasted your responses so I can read them more carefully.
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm

added thoughts to check out my friend:
The Quran is preserved and the earlier Revelations are corrupted. In that case, Allah is either weak or he is unjust. That is the only explanation for his preservation of the Quran and letting people corrupt his previous Revelations.
The Quran is corrupted like the other Revelations. Then you should either not read it since you do not read other corrupted Revelations, or maybe you should read these other corrupted Revelations just as you insist on reading the corrupted Quran.
The Quran is preserved, and the previous Revelations have also been preserved. That means then you should read these authentic Revelations (the Bible) for yourself.
The Quran is corrupted but the earlier Revelations are preserved. Obviously, you should then abandon the Quran and read the Bible

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Khaled/quran_preserved.htm

Edited by eaglecap - 07-Sep-2007 at 23:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 22:27
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htmHere is a basic online source, not an academic one, I just googled the phrase and came up with it, and skimmed it, it gives you the gist of the idea however.


I will get back to you on this but here is something for you to ponder and no disrespect for Mohummad or your religion meant. You are in the US and have the freedom of religion, unlike some Muslim countries.


http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Text/index.html

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Contra/index.html

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Shabir-Ally/index.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 03:26
First of all I have to say I'm not a religious person Smile but once I had a conversation with a muslim believer who attracted my attention on some interesting but often neglected points.
 
He told me that it's wrong to compare the Bible and the Quran, but we have to compare the Quran to the person of Jesus. As for Christians Jesus is the Word of God incarnated in a Man so for Muslims the Quran is the Word of God "incarnated" in a Book.
 
The Bible has to be compared rightly to Hadith and Sira, so there are Hadith and Sira more reliable than others (some are recognized fabrications too) as it is for the books of Ancient Testament and for the many canonical and not canonical Gospels and so the Hadith are not "Word of God" but human testimony as it is for the Bible.
 
I easily understand that these statements are hard to accept to christian believers (and probably also to muslim ones who are not mystical Sufis Smile), particularly to Protestants who base their faith only on the authority of the Bible as "Word of God". 
 
What do you think about?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 05:24
The Quran is the word of God, Hadith are the  saying of the Prophet collected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 05:27
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

The Quran is the word of God, Hadith are the  saying of the Prophet collected.
 
 
Have you understood the meaning of my post?
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 09:27
Originally posted by Leonardo Leonardo wrote:

First of all I have to say I'm not a religious person Smile but once I had a conversation with a muslim believer who attracted my attention on some interesting but often neglected points.
 
He told me that it's wrong to compare the Bible and the Quran, but we have to compare the Quran to the person of Jesus. As for Christians Jesus is the Word of God incarnated in a Man so for Muslims the Quran is the Word of God "incarnated" in a Book.
 
The Bible has to be compared rightly to Hadith and Sira, so there are Hadith and Sira more reliable than others (some are recognized fabrications too) as it is for the books of Ancient Testament and for the many canonical and not canonical Gospels and so the Hadith are not "Word of God" but human testimony as it is for the Bible.
 
I easily understand that these statements are hard to accept to christian believers (and probably also to muslim ones who are not mystical Sufis Smile), particularly to Protestants who base their faith only on the authority of the Bible as "Word of God". 
 
What do you think about?
 
In the case of Catholics, I believe you are right.
 
For the Catholics what matters are the Gospels, and in there the teachings of Jesus himself. For them , the rest of the Bible is considered historical and referential material, which is important but that doesn't have the same weight as the Gospels.
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 17:21
Originally posted by Leonardo Leonardo wrote:

Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

The Quran is the word of God, Hadith are the  saying of the Prophet collected.

 

 

Have you understood the meaning of my post?

 

 

 


I do but read over the links which show why this reasoning is wrong. I will not say anything negative about the Qu'ran but read what these links have to say and then let me know what you think. I need to find the time to reread these posts and read over my links for thoroughly.

My real stance is "What is truth!!" who said that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 17:22
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

The Quran is the word of God, Hadith are the  saying of the Prophet collected.


If that is your truth! But, please read the links I put up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2007 at 04:56

Hello to you all

Sorry for being late in replying but I am now PC-less at uni where the semester begun and my roomate just graduated which put me in a mess and I am busy finalizing registeration for courses that I want that is why I did not reply faster.

I went to the site that you mentioned above eaglecap and spent quite a time reading and analyzing its contents and since I cannot reply on every single point I made some general assesments for these so called "contradictions" and I will reply to a couple of them and hopefully to give a general idea about the rest.
 
The fist remark about these so called "contradictions" is that they were written by people who do not know anything about the Quran except what they read in translation, they don't even know the original language of the Quran which is a grievious mistake since how the hell you expect to find contradictions in a text that you know it only through translation. Also there is a lack in the knowledge of Arabic literary styles which is even more disturbing since the Quranic language is the best text ever written in Arabic, jesuits used small Suras of Quran to teach student high literary styles in arabic and volumes (9 vol. I think by Al-Zamakhshari) were written only in the literary style of the Quran and these people simply cancelled all that and called this contradiction.
 
the history of the Quranic text alone will explain at least 20 of these contradictions and the knowledge of Al-Nasikh and Mansookh which I talked about in an earlier post will solve many others. Quran was revealed to the prophet (pbuh) over a 23 year period in which the society was compeletly transformed from idolatry to monothiesm and what was accepted earlier like wine drinking became a sin and what was an essential part of islam turned into a matter of choice (like praying most of the night). All of these things were revealed to the believers in the Quran both the allowed and the forbidden and for many reason some mentioned in the post above and other I did not mention these so called "contradictory" suras and verses were left in the finalized quranic text but also some of them were edited from the quranic text and thus we ended with the quran where certain suras are older than others and certain verses are older than others and the newest verse as has been agreed by the quranic chronologists (another discipline of the Quran) was to be the standard. another result of this different in chronological order is that some verses come to explain earlier ones and this is apparent in the sura know as "the women" when enheretence verses were further explained in the end of the surah.
 
Also one of the notes about the site is that it emphasizes in some point on the validity of hadiths which is a topic beyond the scope of this forum but I will give some points here. Not all hadiths of the same power of arguments, some hadiths are very vlid because their narration chain is very strong and some are weak because of there chain. Wikipedia is a good place to start about hadith degrees but in the end if a hadith no matter how strong it is contradicts Quran the Quran is paramont because there is no comparison between the methods that broght the hadith to us (whch are very strict) and those of the Quran, the Quran is just far mor powerful.
 
Now returning on the contradictions I said I will answer a couple and if any one wants more just ask or better send an e-mail to the website below which and you will get more than what you want.
 
First, contradiction number 3 talks about who was the first muslim and this exposes the lack of knowledge about literary styles as well as Quranic concepts. Two concept of Islam are in the Quran, the specific is our Islam of prophet muhammad (pbuh), the general Islam is the religion of all prophets which is the total surrender of will to god which is the essence of all Abrahamic faiths if this is the correct way to lable it, Islam is roughly, although this is not true, equivalen to monotheism if you might say which is what all prophets, at least in the quran,  were sent to preach.
 
the second "contradiction", no 13, is classic case of misunderstaning of everything concerning quran, its history, language, the history of islam itself and many other things. This "contradiction" says that quran sometimes promises ruin for all good deeds by non muslims and others do the opposite as well as sometimes christian, jews and muslims worship the same god while  in others the first two are idolators. First, as I said before, Quran was revieled over 23 year, in the year 8 AH I think a verse that said only Islam was to be accepted was anounced after almost 2/3 of the quran has been revealed. As for the day of judgment verse well I think it is obvious that it came in chronological order, all jews before christianity, all christians and Sbians before Islam were to enter paradise and the verse talks about the real jews and christians who follow a monotheism like that of Islam not the christians who believe in the trinity or Sabians who believe in the power of the stars becasue that is part of "Shirk" or idolatry which is in quranic context is far more than worshipping idols.
 
If you have any note on what I just said or want a further explaination just post and I will answer but for far more serious questions here is a site that takes questions about Islam in four languages and answers them far more scholarly than my replies and here it is:
 
 
Thank you
 
Al-Jassas ibn Murrah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2007 at 11:49
Thank you Al-Jassas for your input

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2007 at 20:09
I copied and will look at your posts and hopefully you did look at my links from answering Islam- get back to U when I can- limited time on A&E

I contact answering answering Islam and asked what their credentials are and if they can read classical Arabic or not.

The one comment I have is that under your criteria most Christians are going to Muslim Hell since most believe in the Trinity- is this true?

Many Muslims do not fully understand this concept.

Al Jassas

- what do you believe that the Christian belief about the Trinity is? What is it, by what you have been taught, under Islam? What do you personally understand about it?

Edited by eaglecap - 13-Sep-2007 at 16:57
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2007 at 03:37
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

With the Dead Sea scrolls, from 70 AD, all the books of the Torah have been found but the Book of Ester.
 
I just want to point out an inaccuracy in your use of the word "Torah".  The written Torah refers to the Law ("Torah" literally means "instructions"), also known as the five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.)  The entire Hebrew Bible (which the Christians call "Old Testament) is referred to as the Tanakh, of which the written Torah is a portion.  The other portions of Tanakh are Nevi'im (Prophets) and Ketuvim (Writings).  Esther would be a book in the Ketuvim category, but is not a part of the written Torah.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2007 at 13:31
Sorry taking a while to get back to this topic because I am writing a piece on the battle of Manzikert for a journal. I am hoping that I can get my sources at Gonzaga University since Eastern Washington University lacks Byzantine sources. They have a number of books about Byzantine history but not what I am looking for. I wish I could take a course in Byzantine Greek here but the closes I can get is Koine Greek at Moody Bible Institute or Gonzaga, both are expensive.

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I will read over those sites and then find out if the author from answering Islam knows classical Islam.

WHAT IS TRUTH? which famous now dead-long dead- person said that?
hint: isa - Jesus - Jashua
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2007 at 13:59
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

WHAT IS TRUTH? which famous now dead-long dead- person said that?
hint: isa - Jesus - Jashua
 
Pontius Pilate, responding to Jesus' revelation of the cause for which he was born: to "bear witness to the truth." [John 18: 37-38]
 
This statement reveals Pilate's worldly focus, and his cynical treatment of anything other than that which most immediately affects him. He was worried about justifying himself in the eyes of the emperor, and containing Jewish revolutionary sentiment. He had no time left over to worry about that which is truly important: spiritual truth.
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 17-Sep-2007 at 14:00
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