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Origin of the word "turk"

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Description: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
Moderators: Temujin, Byzantine Emperor, Sarmat12
URL: http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=26790
Printed Date: 14-Oct-2019 at 13:45
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Topic: Origin of the word "turk"
Posted By: HungryWolf
Subject: Origin of the word "turk"
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 14:54
Some historians say that the word "turk" means "strong" but others have their different views about this word.
I also read that this word have nothing with ethnic origin and it was used 6000 years ago as
"the man who trust to one single God (Tengri)"
and it was religious termin what combined and connected peoples of different races.

You can get information and read books about it at : http://adji.ru/main_en.html - Adji.ru (in english language)


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Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)



Replies:
Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 15:00
it means Turks were first peoples who trust to single God and it was 60 centuries ago

you can also read about Tengri at :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri

http://adji.ru/main_en.html - Adji.ru



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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 17:53
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

it means Turks were first peoples who trust to single God and it was 60 centuries ago
 
Were there even any "Turks" as they became defined by that term sixty centuries ago?
 
Also, if anyone had trusted in the One God first it was the ancient Hebrews, and even then, the Covenant made with Abraham was about forty centuries ago at the most.
 
What timeline are you following?
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 19:37
You know there is 2 main history about turks

1)Ancient Shumers were the fathers of the turks
As there language is very close to turkic. There is facts and books about it.
2)Turks come from Altai
European historians say that

Anyways i put a link. If any questions please follow the link and read about it.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 19:57
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

1)Ancient Shumers were the fathers of the turks
 
I don't really care about this and it was not the statement to which I replied.
 
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

As there language is very close to turkic. There is facts and books about it.
 
I do not really care about this either.  Also, it was not the statement to which I replied.
 
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

2)Turks come from Altai
European historians say that
 
See my answers to 1 and 2 above.

 
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

Anyways i put a link. If any questions please follow the link and read about it.
 
Actually, I did take a moment to look at the website.  It looks to be a very suspicious "source," if it can even be called that.
 
You said that the "Turks" were the first to worship "the one God" sixty centuries ago.  I disagreed with this assessment and said why.  The argument was about religion, not nationality or language.  Plus, the "source" you referenced does not talk about the Turks worshiping Allah, whom I assume you mean by "the one God."
 
If anything, it talks about them being paganistic or shamanistic early in their prehistory:
 
Quote ...Two and a half thousand years ago Tengri God gave rise to the Iron Age for Turkic people. A fantastic event! We don't know who was the first metallurgist. Perhaps his name was Temir. He deserves a monument. He and his great invention - the first metallurgic furnace in the world!
 
...It should be mentioned that I-III centuries and the whole "Indian period" of Turkic history have been absolutely forgotten by the Turki, but haven't been forgotten in India and Iran. In these countries Kanishka-khan (78 - 123) with pure soul and stable belief is still deified. He was the founder of northern branch of Buddhism and worshiped Heavenly God - the Great Tengri.
 
...That was the name the Turki have given to Heavenly God who had disclosed the secrets of iron two and a half thousand years ago.
 
...Cult of a new God was connected with iron, apparently. But why was it so? It wasn't by accident that in the past iron was called a "heavenly metal"… Wasn't this cult "created" due to meteorites? Heavenly stones acquainted people with "metal of the sky"! Then a cult of Blacksmith-God appeared which developed into belief of people acquainted with force of heavenly metal… Religion could have started only from concreteness! Belief in Heavenly God, in his retributive protective iron sword.
   
...At first the Turki used to be the pagans. But new God changed them. Tengri became the heart of Turkic spiritual culture. The Most High made the nation invincible.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 20:22
Quote Plus, the "source" you referenced does not talk about the Turks worshiping Allah, whom I assume you mean by "the one God."
I just don't understand why this source must talk about the Turks worshiping Allah?
If u want to know i am not muslim. not christian or something else i am Deist.
Majority of turks became muslim from the 11th century. Before that and before the christ they only worship Tengri as a single God who created the galaxy.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 20:28
Yet another guy with ridiculous theories (I mean wtf, Sumerian Turks) you don't really expect people to take you seriously, do you?


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 20:32
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor Byzantine Emperor wrote:

Plus, the "source" you referenced does not talk about the Turks worshiping Allah, whom I assume you mean by "the one God."
 
I just don't understand why this source must talk about the Turks worshiping Allah?
If u want to know i am not muslim. not christian or something else i am Deist.
Majority of turks became muslim from the 11th century. Before that and before the christ they only worship Tengri as a single God who created the galaxy.
 
Ah, thanks for clarifying at this point.  It would have been better if you had defined the terms you were using in the beginning rather than juxtaposing "Tengri" and the epithet of "Most High God" as if all who read this understood.
 
Nevertheless, my criticism remains of the "source" you provided.  It also seems to confuse religious terms and claims (from what I could tell) that many Turks believed in some kind of syncretic morphing of Tengri into Allah once they converted to Islam.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 20:38
omg i understand u greek but if u don't care or smth then why u enter this topic and write a comment ?
I don't know it is real or not but there are many sources (books) and facts about Shumers as their language was very similar to turkic language.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 20:51
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

omg i understand u greek but if u don't care or smth then why u enter this topic and write a comment ?
I don't know it is real or not but there are many sources (books) and facts about Shumers as their language was very similar to turkic language.
 
Actually, I am not Greek, although I am highly interested in both Byzantine and Ottoman history.
 
If you read what I originally posted, and then clarified in the second post, my contention was not with the language or ethnic characterizations you made, but with the religious.
 
Before you made the clarification, your terminology and framework were highly ambiguous and deceptive, not to mention the link you posted.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 20:57
Quote HungryWolf
You know there is 2 main history about turks

1)Ancient Shumers were the fathers of the turks
As there language is very close to turkic. There is facts and books about it.
2)Turks come from Altai
European historians say that


This is delusional pseudo fantasy history at its worst.

There is no serious historical evidence that points to Sumerians being proto-Turks.

Its not just European historians that say Turks came from the Altay region, Turkish, Japanese, Congolese any historian anywhere in the world will connect Turks with Altay region.





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      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine



Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 21:22
I will say something and you will think again I am doing Turkish Nationalism but trust me I will not!
 
The last historical reserchments show us Sumers are proto-Turk. Cause in this geogrphy there were not any people like Turkish , like geting lamb dresses, like applicating Turkish war tactics ( wolf camp etc..) like country rationalize etc..
 
If we turn the real topic,
 
Turk means power, people, derive , growing population .....
 
I will keep an eye on this topic (:


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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 21:28
Aratta, kuti, lullubi ,turukki, kassi, subi

These ethnics were first turkic origins and live in II thousand years b.c (4000 years ago) around the Caspian sea and they have relative connections with shumers.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 22:34
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

The last historical reserchments show us Sumers are proto-Turk. Cause in this geogrphy there were not any people like Turkish , like geting lamb dresses, like applicating Turkish war tactics ( wolf camp etc..) like country rationalize etc..


Please I am begging you present those evidence to us....where are those quality Turkish members that logged in in the old days? All we are getting recently are delusional nationalists, it's embarassing.


Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 22:38
Quote Myth
The last historical reserchments show us Sumers are proto-Turk. Cause in this geogrphy there were not any people like Turkish , like geting lamb dresses, like applicating Turkish war tactics ( wolf camp etc..) like country rationalize etc..


There is no historical research showing Sumerians to be Turks, these theories are not serious.





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      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine



Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 22:47
Quote  All we are getting recently are delusional nationalists, it's embarassing.
We turks aren't nacionalists or something else like that.
We just want what belongs to us. True history.

Look what said German Professor Neumark :

If you will take out Turks from history, there will be no word as a "history".

Originally in turkish "Sizler farkında değilsiniz ama onlar şu gerçeğin farkındadırlar. Tarihtan türk çıkarılırsa tarih kalmaz. Osmanlı arşivi tam olarak ortaya çıkarsa bugünki tarihlerin yeniden yazılması gerekir(Ki biz buna Orta Asya(Türkistan da bulunan piramitleri ve Kazım Mirşan tarafından Ön Türkçe olarak çözülen yazıtlarıda ekliyoruz)."


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 07:58
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

We turks aren't nacionalists or something else like that.
 
It's not Turks that are nationalists just certain individuals that give them a bad name by posting ridiculous theories on the internet
 
*coughs*like this threadShocked


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 12:52
Quote It's not Turks that are nationalists just certain individuals that give them a bad name by posting ridiculous theories on the internet
 
*coughs*like this threadShocked
Only greek can enter turkic forum and write about ancient turks' history what he wants although turks do not make it to greeks or anyone else.
We just discuss our history in our forum and with facts and sources.
If you want to discuss then please, but only discuss history not anything else.
Do not offtop here.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 16:54
i read sometime ago in on of the old Arabic books, it mentions that Turks are sons of Yafeth along with Gog and Magog, and when Dul Qarnayn locked the later ones he left Turks behind and thats why they are called Turks, that Taraka in Arabic means leave something, and Turk is something like they were left behind.

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Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 17:42
We are not racist ok, we are only trying to tell our history regularly cause a lot of greek and armenian persons talk about our GREAT HISTORY. And you know better than me they divert the realities because of their wrong ambitiouses on our great timeless country.
 
Don't scare of Turks, you can say we don't scare also, but it seems someones scare, we say that we are not racist we only want to save our great history...
 
Well, bulldog said Sumerler (Shumerians) were not Turk, if you think like this you can look this :
 
Türkçe(Turkish)             Sümerce (Shumerian)
      Ata(forefather)            Adda
      Agır(heavy)                Agar
      Asgı(hanger)               Azgu
      De! (söyle)(tell)          Di
      Tengri(god)                Dingir
      Dök(pour)                  Dug
      Es(wife or husband)   
      Kom (ağıt)(dirge)      Kum
      Kapkacak(avend)      Kapkagac
      Kaç(how many)         Kaş
      Ko (koy)(put)            Ku
      Men(me)                   Men
      Sağ  (living)              Sag
      Sun  (present)           Sum
      Tin (a voice)              Tın
      Toku(old Turkish)      Tuku
      On   (ten)                  U
      Öbür (another)          Ubur
      Yumuş (iş) (job)        Umuş
      Us (akıl)(mind)          
      Sağ (taraf)(right)      Zag
      Çibin (sinek)(mosquito)  Zibin


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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 18:16
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

We are not racist ok, we are only trying to tell our history regularly cause a lot of greek and armenian persons talk about our GREAT HISTORY. And you know better than me they divert the realities because of their wrong ambitiouses on our great timeless country.
 
Don't scare of Turks, you can say we don't scare also, but it seems someones scare, we say that we are not racist we only want to save our great history...
 
Racist, maybe not, but nationalist?  How can the person reading the above reply not take it as a Turkish nationalist trumpeting their rhetoric?  You have all the components: setting up the Greeks and Armenians as aggressors against your history, a statement made IN ALL CAPS, grandiose adjectives describing your history.  Come on, as the American idomatic phrase goes, "the cat has been let out of the bag." LOL
 
Note:  Just because my screen name is Byzantine Emperor does not mean that I am an ethnic Greek or that I am a Greek nationalist.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 18:32
Yes , you know we are nationalist like all nation.
I setting up the greeks and armenians because it looks easyly they are talking about very very very freely about our history. Do you think all person can speak on a history about another nation ? no , not. only real history proffessors or addicts.


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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 20:30
he is armenian. right byz emp?

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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 21:03
Quote Yes , you know we are nationalist like all nation.
Very true. I don't know anyone who doesn't love own history,nation,country.
Patriots are the most respectful people everywhere.
Or u don't know differencies between rascism and patriotism.

Quote greeks and armenians because it looks easyly they are talking about very very very freely about our history.
It shows how much they "love" us.
I don't want to talk about "great" gipsy armenia or that alexander macedonian were "greek".
I never write about turkic history or something that i don't know in
another topics which are not about turks.
But i see only people who do not like turks in life enter here and
what they do is not discussing but only offtop-ing in turkic forums and make topic garbage with their offtop posts.
They are feeling theirselves very free to write what they want without any frames.
You do "history" for us lol!


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 21:13
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

[quote]
But i see only people who do not like turks in life enter here and they are feel theirself
very free to write what they wants without any frames. You do "history" for us lol!
 
This explains everything, why we are trying to do something here.


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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 21:41
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

Yes , you know we are nationalist like all nation.
I setting up the greeks and armenians because it looks easyly they are talking about very very very freely about our history. Do you think all person can speak on a history about another nation ? no , not. only real history proffessors or addicts.
 
No, just because you are citizens of a certain nation or country does not mean that you have to be a paranoid nationalist that believes there are Armenian and Greek monsters around every corner of the cyber world and the real world that are ready to devour or rend asunder the history of your people.
 
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

he is armenian. right byz emp?
 
No, I am not.  Just plain old American from the Midwestern USA.
 
Let me reformulate my note from earlier:
 
Just because my screen name is Byzantine Emperor does not mean I am Greek or Armenian, nor that I am a Greek or Armenian nationalist.
 
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

Very true. I don't know anyone who doesn't love own history,nation,country.
Patriots are the most respectful people everywhere.
Or u don't know differencies between rascism and patriotism.
 
No, there is a difference.  Please see my reply to MythTR above.
 
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

I never write about turkic history or something that i don't know in
another topics which are not about turks.
But i see only people who do not like turks in life enter here and
what they do is not discussing but only offtop-ing in turkic forums and make topic garbage with their offtop posts.
They are feeling theirselves very free to write what they want without any frames.
You do "history" for us lol!
 
On the contrary, I think that legitimate historians, who also happen not to be Turkish, Greek, or Armenian, can often bring a certain measure of objectivity to the study of the Ottomans, Byzantium, or what have you, that historians of the same ethnic group cannot.
 
One definitely does not have to be of the same ethnic group or religion of the civilization about which they study and write.
 
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

It shows how much they "love" us.
I don't want to talk about "great" gipsy armenia or that alexander macedonian were "greek"
 
Would you care to explain what you mean by these statements?
 
If you ask me, the same things you two are writing about Turks seems awfully similar to those things that are written by people who are obsessed with Macedonia/FYROM/Alexander or that the twelve apostles and citizens of Atlantis were Bulgarians.
 
Where do you two get this idea that only Turks can reply to Turkish-themed threads?


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: Evrenosgazi
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 21:49
Come on guys, you dont believe that sumerians are proto turks. If you have any proofs than you must cite the sources. This claim will be a useless and meaningless nationalism


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 21:55
Finally. Evren put some sense to your countrymen, they embarass your country.

PS: Hungry Wolf continue this way and your presence here might be short. I already reported you.


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:00
Quote Where do you two get this idea that only Turks can reply to Turkish-themed threads?

No man you know i dindn't say it.
I just say do not offtop here and don't make this topic garbage.
You can only discuss history here not anything else. I'm saying it again and again.
And you are continueing to off their.

Quote If you have any proofs than you must cite the sources.
evren i have million tons of proofs for you in turkic if you want but i can't translate it to english to view in this forum.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:05
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor Byzantine Emperor wrote:

Where do you two get this idea that only Turks can reply to Turkish-themed threads?

No man you know i dindn't say it.
I just say do not offtop here and don't make this topic garbage.
You can only discuss history here not anything else. I'm saying it again and again.
And you are continueing to off their.
 
What?
 
How has pointing out your rhetoric and inconsistencies made the topic "garbage?"  You and MythTR have, despite your protestations, told all members who don't subscribe to your rhetoric and who are not Turkish "nationalists" that they cannot post in this thread.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:14
Look, Byzantine Emeror...
 
I have endless respect to you, to your opinions, to your experience.
 
I didn't come to this forum for racialism.
I never have this opinion.
I never say all nations are bad, weak, poor. I never.
 
You said to me
 
"Where do you two get this idea that only Turks can reply to Turkish-themed threads? "
I never claimed that but think it, you said I am an American and I will start this point. Yes what I was saying, think it; you are American, you love your country, you love your history, you love your forefathers etc...
 
And think it I am a russian. In the past my nation and your nation had controversies.
 
One day, I found a forum and this forum was a history forum. I saw the topics which are about America , American people ....
 
And I entered and wrote freely and more more more freely, for example : Americas people isn't a people, they are mongol, they have not real people DNA, they only copy from other people bla bla bla. 
 
And think it again one day you saw theese msgs on the search bot (like Goo*le) and you decided to enter this from and save your truths.
And you met a friend who you have the same blood, and get started to answer the topics together which are written about your nation. And after this a person would appear and say, don't make racialism , nationalism , you are wrong you are wrong , the americans copy from mongols mongoloid mongoloid mongoloid , greek , armenian , arab , all nation but no american bla bla bla How would you feel ? 
 
 
I didn't write a regular text cause of time , here 00.12 and I will go to the school tomorrow and I should go to bed.
 
 
(all persons and nations are imaginary in this small story)
 
Thank You!


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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:18

and last, the history is consisting of recurrence .

 
We may get banned, we may get killed, but our opinions and the truths are timeless (endless)
 
important point : we are not racist. we are nationalist like you like he like she like they like all ...


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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:29
Quote
No man you know i dindn't say it.
I just say do not offtop here and don't make this topic garbage.
You can only discuss history here not anything else. I'm saying it again and again.
And you are continueing to off their.
 
What?
 
How has pointing out your rhetoric and inconsistencies made the topic "garbage?"  You and MythTR have, despite your protestations, told all members who don't subscribe to your rhetoric and who are not Turkish "nationalists" that they cannot post in this thread.

After this posts i become totaly sure of that u are a gipsy armenian living in US.
becouse you make words from words how to say in english you are making tale with my words. read my post again or discuss only HISTORY. do not offtop and do not make this forum garbage with offtops.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:36
Insulting a moderator is really smart Hungry Wolf.....and you discuss pseudo history I am afraid. Please cite your sources or begone. Thank you.


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:36
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

After this posts i become totaly sure of that u are a gipsy armenian living in US.
becouse you make words from words how to say in english you are making tale with my words. read my post again or discuss only HISTORY. do not offtop and do not make this forum garbage with offtops.
 
Alright.  Let me get this straight.  Calling someone out on their rhetoric and overweening nationalism makes one a "gypsy armenian?"  You really need to explain what you mean by this as it could be taken as a derogatory racial comment.
 
I will say it again.  I was born and raised in the Midwestern USA and my heritage is Scottish, Irish, and English with a bit of Cherokee indian.  As far as I know, none of my ancestors were Greek or Armenian.  Why does this bother you so much?
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:44
Quote Why does this bother you so much?

Man how Azerbaijanian can love the people who occupate 20% of his motherland.
I hope you know about nagorno-kharabag problem in Caucasia.

OK. lets be "human" and don't write anything else about nationalism or nations
and do not go far from topic's theme.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:45
You guys are just embarrasing yourselves and while you think your being so nationalistic all your doing is giving your nation a dis-service by giving a bad name and stop making stupid accusations and waffling on about Greeks, this isn't a Greek-Turk issue, there isn't one on this forum and we'd like to keep it that way.

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      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine



Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:49
Originally posted by HungryWolf HungryWolf wrote:

OK. lets be "human" and don't write anything else about nationalism or nations and do not go far from topic's theme.
 
I agree both now and many posts ago when I pointed out that nationalism was entering to the discussion and throwing the topic off-course.  Myself and the other moderators will hold you to your words.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 12:49
 
Quote Please cite your sources or begone. Thank you.
At first page i put a link to the site what describes it.
Not only it but also another things about turkic origin and the meaning of the "turk" word.
After me MythTR also posted about turkic-sumerian language, about their similarity.
If it is not enought for you, you can also use these links for more information.
Thank you too.

http://www.polatkaya.net/Part-2_Sumerian_Turkish.html - Click here
http://www.polatkaya.net/Part-2_Sumerian_Turkish.html

Similarity of languages :

http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturka.html - Click here
http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturka.html

http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturkb.html - Click here
http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturkb.html

http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturkc.html - Click here
http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturkc.html


Here the common vocabulary.

Quote English ...... Sumerian ..... Turkish 

[A to G inclusive]


In the list below, the English words are the intermediary words between the Sumerian and the Turkish words.

English ...... Sumerian ..... Turkish

___________ ... _________ ... _____________

-ablaitive ........ Ka-ta ........ Kapu-tan, Kapu-dan

-accusative ........ Ka-n-i ........ kapu-n-u, KapI-y-I

-dative ........ Ka-na ....... Kapu-y-a

-equiative ........ Ka-gim ........ Kapu-kimi

-genetive ........ Ka-na(k) ........ Kapu-n-un

-innesive ........ Ka-ta ........ Kapu-da

3 ........ Es ........ üç

10 ........ U, un ........ on

Abundance ........ He-Gal ... g>b ........ bol

Accumulate ........ dirig ........ irk (toplamak) [ONT]

Adam ........ Adapa ........ Adam (atam)=my father; (homosapien) ataapa = father's father

Advice ........ Gal-ga ...g>b ........ Bil-ge

Air ........ Lil ...l>y ........ yil (yel)= wind

Ancestor ........ Bil-ga ........ Bil-ge (=knowledgable, experienced)

Anger ........ mir ...m>k ........ kiz-mak (=to get angry)

Ant ........ marun ...m>k ........ karîn-ca [ONT]

Arm ........ Kar ........ Kol, kar?

Ashes ........ De-Dal ... d>k ........ kül

Away from ........ -ta ........ -tan, -dan, -ten, -den (suffix)

Back ........ Eger ........ Eg~er (=saddle)

Back of head ........ Arku ........ arka (=back)

Band ........ dib ........ yip (=ip=string) [ONT]

Bank of river ........ Gu ... g>k ........ Kî-yî

Base ........ Ur ........ Uruk (=family, clan)

Be strong (to) ........ kalag ... g>ng ........ kaling (kalabalik, çok sürü; kalîn, kesif; çok, sayîsîz, sîk, koyu) [ONT]

Be great ........ Diri ........ Diri (=alive with life, energetic)

Beaches of river ........ Ki-A ........ Kî-yî

Bead ........ nunuz ... n>y ........ yinçü (=inci= pearl) [ONT]

Beans ........ Lu-ub ........ Lobya, Lobi (Uygur)

Bear ........ Az ... z>y ........ Ayî

Beard ........ Sig ........ Sak-al

Beat (to) ........ Tud ... d>v ........ döv

Beginning ........ Sha-Har ........ seher, tan (=morning)

Behind ........ E-Gir ........ geri

Belligerent ........ Kur ........ Kîr-an (=one who breaks)

Beloved ........ Ki-Aga ........ Aga (=Lord, elder brother, one who is respected and loved)

Bend (to) ........ Gur ........ Eg~ (=bend; Kîr = break)

Best ........ Sag ........ Sag~ (=unbroken, in best condition)

Bird ........ Mus~en ... m>k ........ Kus~ (notice the "kus~/mus~" saying in Turkish)

Bird ........ usa^an ........ kus^ (uçan)

Birdnest ........ us^ub ........ kus^+eb (kus^evi, yuva) [ONT]

Birth ........ Gal ........ Gö-bek (=navel, emblical chord)

Blacksmiths ........ Simug-A ... s>t ........ timur (=blacksmith); (temir= iron)

Blood ........ mud ... m>k ........ kan [ONT]

Blow (wind) (to) ........ es^ ........ es-mek [ONT]

Border ........ zag ... z>y ........ yaka (taraf, yan, civar) [ONT]

Border, limit ........ mas^ ... m>k ........ kas^ (kîyî, kenar) [ONT]

Breakthrough ........ Gu-Gir ........ KIr gir (=break and enter)

Breath ........ Lil ... l>y ........ yil (yel) (=wind)

Bright ........ zal ... z>y ........ yal-drîk, (yal-druk, parlak, süslü)

Bright, light ........ zalag ... z>y ........ yalîng (alev, yalçîn) [ONT]

Broker ........ Dam-Kar ........ KIr-an

Brother (older) ........ Bulug-Gal ........ Aga-bey; aka-uka (Ui.Tr)

Brother ........ S~es~ (Ses) ........ Kardas~

Build ........ Du ........ Dik (=build a house; sew a dress)

But ........ Am ........ Ama

Butter ........ Ia-Nun ........ Yag~

By the God ........ Dingir-E ........ Tengir icin , Tengi icin

Call ........ Sa ........ Ca-g~Ir

Cast away (to) ........ ku ........ ko-y (birakmak, koymak, terketmek, atmak)

Catch (to) ........ Gab ........ Kap= to snatch

Cattle stable ........ s^urum ... m>k ........ sürüg (sürü) [ONT]

Champion ........ Ur ........ Er, yigit (= brave man)

Chanal ........ garim ........ arik (ark; irmak) [ONT]

City ........ Uru, Ur ........ Uruk (=family, clan)

City ........ Sag-Uru ........ Sag~ (=complete, whole);

Cleanse ........ zalag ... z>y ........ Yala (= to clean by licking)

Cloth ........ Tug ........ E-tek

Come ........ Gen, Gin ........ Gel

Command ........ A-Aga ........ Aga (buyuk kis^i) (=Lord, one who commands)

Conqueror ........ Al-Tar ........ Tarkan

Constable (police) ........ Aga-Us ........ Aga (=Lord); Us (=reason); koy agasi (=village master)

Country side ........ Kur ........ KIr

Country ........ tir ........ yir (yer, toprak, [ONT]

Crown ........ Aga ........ Aga (=Lord)

Crush (to) ........ Gaz, Guz ........ Ez

Crush ........ gaz ........ ez-mek [ONT]

Cry ........ I-lu ........ Agla

Cut (to) ........ Has^ ........ Kes-mek

Cut into pieces (to) ........ kid2 ........ kid-mak (kiymak, öldürmek)[ONT]

Cut up (to) ........ Sil(a) 12,117 ........ S^IlI (Tele. Tr)=it cuts

Cut, break ........ tar ........ yar-mak [ONT]

Dagger ........ Giri-Ba-Da-Ra ........ Gir-en (=piercing instrument)

Dark ........ Ku-Kuga ........ Kara (=black)

Darkness ........ Ku-Ku (G) ........ Kara

Dawn ........ Sha-har ........ Seher, Tan

Day ........ U ........ Gün, Kün

Day, time (in general) ........ u4(d) ........ kün (gün, günes^, gündüz) [ONT]

Daybreak, dawn ........ dag ... g>ng ........ tang (tan, sabah vakti) [ONT]

Dead, to die ........ us^2 ...s^>l ........ öl (ölmek) [ONT]

Decree ........ A-Aga ........ Aga sözü(=Lord's orders)

Deity ........ Dingir ........ Tengir, Tengere, Tengri, Tangara

Desert ........ Kur ........ KIr (=not fertile land); Kum (=sand)

Discernment ........ umus^ ... m>k ........ ukus^ (akil, anlayis^) [ONT]

Disperse, undo (to) ........ bur ... r>z ........ boz-mak, yikmak [ONT]

Distance ........ Us ........ Az, uz (az gittik uz gittik gibi);

District ........ nanga ... n>y ........ yanga (yan, kanat)

Divorce ........ Tag ........ Dag~-Il (=separate, disperse)

Dog ........ Lik, Ur ........ bör, börü, it; kurt (=wolf)

Door ........ gis^ig ........ es^ik (kapi =outside) [ONT]

Drill (to) ........ bur 411,104 ........ Burgu (=drill)

Drive (to) ........ Hus 565,58 ........ Kos^u (Os. Tr)=wagon, coach ???

Elders ........ Ab-ba ........ Aba, apa

Enemy ........ taga ........ yagi (dus^man) [ONT]

Energetic ........ dirig ........ irig, diri [ONT]

Enourmous ........ Diri ........ iri

Equipment(for boat) ........ Su-Kara ........ su (=water); araç (=equipment)

Estate ........ E ........ Ev (=house, estate)

Esteem highly ........ Ig Kal ........ iyi, iygi (= good); Kal (=stay)

Evening ........ Usan ........ Aks^am

Excellent ........ Diri ........ Diri (=alive with life, energetic)

Excessive (extra) ........ Dirig-Dirig ........ Diri diri

Face ........ Sag-ki ........ Sak-kal (=beard)

False ........ Lul-La ........ Yal-an (=lie, deception)

Far mountain land ........ Ish-Kur ........ Dîsh kîr (=outside lands)

Fat ........ Ia ........ Yag~

Father ........ Ad-da, A-A ........ Ata, Atta

Feet ........ Gir ........ Gir (=enter); yürü (=walk)

Fill (to) ........ du3 t........ o-l-mak (dolmak) [ONT]

Find (to) ........ Bu-Bu-Lu ........ Bul

Fine flower ........ Zid-Gu ... z>ç ........ Çiçek

Finger ........ u ........ Ui (=sleeve)

Fire ........ Ag, Bil, Gira, Izi ........ Köz (=non flaming fire); Ag~ (ak=color of glowing fire, white)

Flashing eyes ........ Igi-Gun-Gun ........ Gün (=Sun, Sun light, day light)

Flesh ........ Uzu ........ Kuzu (=Lamb)

Follow, accompany ........ tag, tuku7 ........ daga- (izlemek, es^lik etmek, taklit etmek, emrinde olmak) [ONT]

Foot ........ Gir, Giri ........ Gir (=enter)

Foot ........ mulu ... m>k ........ köl (ayak) [ONT]

Foothill ........ Hursag ........ KIrsal (=unproductive land)

For ........ Es ........ Için

Ford ........ Bala ........ Balaban (=large bodied)

Foundation ........ us^ ... s^>l ........ ul (duvar temeli) [ONT]

Free (to)? ........ gid ........ id (salmak, göndermek, serbest birakmak, geçirmek, ulas^tirmak) [ONT]

Front ........ Gaba ........ Gabag~ (=Front)

Fruit ........ Gurud ........ Gurud (=dried yogurt balls)

Garden , field ........ kiri6 ........ kîr (kîr, basîk, dag~, açik yer) [ONT]

Garden ........ Kiri ........ kir, yer (toprak) =dirt, soil

Garment ........ Tug ........ e-tek (=lower part of woman's dress)

Gate ........ Ka ........ Kapu, kapî

Gateway of the Gods ........ Ka-Dingir ........ Tengir KapIsI, Tengri KapIsI

Gather ........ Ur ........ Ur (=a round growth)

Girl (young) ........ Ki-sikil-Tur ........ KIz

Give (to) ........ sum ........ sun- (sunmak, uzatmak) [ONT]

Glanzen?, hell ........ zalag ... g>ng ........ yaling (alev; yalçin, sarp,

Glazed, bright ........ zal ... z>y ........ yal (yalov, alev) [ONT]

Gnaw (to) ........ Tukur ........ Tükür (=to spit)

Go ........ Gin ... n>t ........ Git

God - Moon ........ Sin? ........ Ay Tengri (the word SIN is in Akkadian)

God - Sun ........ Utu ........ Kün Tengri

God ........ Dingir ........ Tengir, Tengere, Tangara, Tengri

God of Air and Earth ........ En-Lil ........ Yil (=Wind, air)

God of Heaven ........ An ........ Tan (=Sky); Tengri, TanrI (=Sky God)

god ........ dingir ........ tingir, tengri, tanri

Goddess of Dreams ........ Nina ........ Ninni (=lullaby)

Goldsmith ........ kudim ... d>y ........ kuyumcu

Good ........ sag ........ sag (sag~, iyi, sag~lam) [ONT]

Grab ........ urugal ........ kurgan (kurgan, kale, mezar)[ONT]

Grasp (to) ........ Kap ........ Kap (=pot, utensil that holds something in); kap-mak = to snatch and hold

Grass ........ ulia ........ öleng (sulak yer, bataklik; ot, çayir; çimenlik; otlak) [ONT]

Great (to be) ........ Gu-ul ........ Ulu ol-mak

Great ........ Gal ........ Ulu =Great

Ground ........ Ur ........ Yer;

Grow (to make) ........ Bulug ........ Bulug~ (=to grow ripe; bulug~ =puberty; to reach puberty; to ripen)

Guard (to) ........ Kurum, Uru ........ Koru-mak


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 12:58
This video describes it all (in english) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_dNi8pVxmA - Click here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_dNi8pVxmA


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 13:06
Also this discussion is in yahoo answers

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080625235442AAL1iPD - Click here
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080625235442AAL1iPD

Quote Why are some Sumerian words same as the Turkish words?
First word is Sumerian, second are Turkish (same or similar across all Turkish languages.
Gadun ------------ Hatun
Assinu ----------- Asena
Gig-Anu ---------- Göktanrı (Gök ana)
Tammuzi --------- Temmuz
Domuzi ---------- Domız
Ginç --------- Genç
Auşk -------- --- Aşk
Tar- kus-u -------- Talih kuşu
Ungar ---------- Uygar
Altun ----------- Altın
Anu ---------- Ana
Tengiz---------- Deniz
Gozam-Ozam ------ Ozan
En-gur-ra --------- Ankara
Tamga --------- Damga
Me-en ---------- Men-Ben
Agıl ----------- Akıl
Bar ----------- Var
Er-Eş ------------ Erkek-Kadın
Rakibu ------- Rakip
Aga --------------- Ağa
Balag-ba -------- Balaban
Kes-da ------------ Kesmek
Bira ------------- Bira
Tagga ------------ Takke
Ge ----------------- Gel
İlig ---------- İlik
Et ----------------- Et
Mum ------------- Mum
Huma-kus-a ----------- huma Kuşu
Sin ------------- Sin(e)
Karra ------------ Kara
Batu ----------- Batı
Sar ------------ Sar(ı)
Heak---------- Hak
Mesu ---------- Meşe
Engin ----------- Engin
  • 9 months ago

Additional Details

These words are used even in Eastern Turkish countries. That never came to Anatolia.

9 months ago

Searching google with:

turkish sumerian gives many pages including universities research, scientists research, etc.

turkish: turkce (in turkish)
sumerian: sumerce (in turkish)

9 months ago

http://members.internettrash.com/pkk/a-Trk-Anadolu.html - http://members.internettrash.com/pkk/a-T...

I have found this page which gives shocking information for me.

9 months ago

http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturka.html - http://www.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturka....

Here is a dictionary

9 months ago

There are more than 350 known words that are spoken same and have the same meaning. And there is evidence of Turks living in Anatolia for more than 5000 years.

9 months ago

William H: Problem is Turkish is an ancient language. And it seems like Turks originate from Anatolia.

9 months ago

http://www.turania.com/showthread.php?t=331 - http://www.turania.com/showthread.php?t=...

This article in English has increable information about similarity between Sumerian and Turkish.

Also HUNGAR is a Turkish word KUN-KOR meaning sun (day) and fire (ember)

if G changed to K than GUNGOR means DAY-SEE "see the day, those that see the day"


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 13:14
HungryWolf, in addition to posting sources, you must comment on why you think it is relevant to the discussion, despite whether you think it is self-evident or not.  Thanks.


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 13:22
similarity of words in isolation proves nothing. This is just fantasy dressed up as history.

 mandarin for dad is Ba-Ba, should we link that with any of our own languages that use a very similar word? madarin - Cha, india - chai, greek - chai. Yep that right the chinese are really Greeks from yester year and i can prove it!

 Every ethno-nationalist wannabe comes in here with the same fantasies  'theories' have never passed thorough examination from better read members- who actaully are interested in learning history. Never. You cant learn history if it involves something akin to a intellectual equivalent of; obsessive staring and flexing to a mirror, using your over stimulated imagination to convince yourself your muscles are bigger than they really are. Leave that for the teenagers.

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Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 13:24
Quote HungryWolf, in addition to posting sources, you must comment on why you think it is relevant to the discussion, despite whether you think it is self-evident or not.  Thanks.
I understand you. Ofcourse, nobody can be completely sure or not sure of that.
It is kind of theory which is starting to proof by sciencial researchs.
Thank you too.


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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: HungryWolf
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 13:28
Leonidas,

Please read the sources and watch video at 2nd page.
Becouse the facts are not only about similarity of languages.



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http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nnna.gif">

Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)


Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 16:48
Thank you HungryWolf. Have a great time with your works.

-------------
We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 16:51

HungryWolf and Myth TR:

The http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&FID=45&PR=3 - Code of Conduct is clear regarding nationalism - it is a violation.
I suggest you to read all parts of the CoC - and consider yourself lucky that BE is a patient and friendly man.

VII. Violations
The following are the acts that are considered violations to the code of conduct. For many cases the administration will determine the severity. Violations include but are not limited to the following:

B. Inappropriate posting
6.
Nationalism

Love your country all you want - but don't bring your twisted view on history here with only dubious sources to support it.
Learn how to study history with a critical mind - don't just pick sources which support your agenda of nationalism. 
 
Also - keep the original topic in mind - origin of the word "Turk".
If the discussion strays from this topic, the thread will be closed.
 
Consider this an unofficial Warning to both of you.

This post is not up for debate - nor is the Unofficial Warning.

 
~ Northman


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Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:25
@ Hungry Wolf

Your so called sources are from site like turania.com and freaking Polat Kaya the best known internet clown ever, claiming Latin derives from Turkish!

I could find sources that claim that Greeks are from outer space and invented the human race, but I wouldn't expect anybody to take me seriously.


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:28
Just glimpsed on the video you privded and it starts from the great flood, continuing to link Bulgarian kings, Indians, Aryans, Turks, just wow. 


Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:30

Northman ! I respect you , ok ! but look please the other posts someone calls a person for CLOWN. I respect clowns too, but in this time that clown doesn't mean a job.



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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:39
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

Northman ! I respect you , ok ! but look please the other posts someone calls a person for CLOWN. I respect clowns too, but in this time that clown doesn't mean a job.



Nice try but I called somebody else a clown not a forum member, so it doesn't count.LOL


Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:57
Originally posted by Vorian Vorian wrote:



Nice try but I called somebody else a clown not a forum member, so it doesn't count.LOL


do you actually also contribute or just provoke?


Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 18:00
I apologise...I usually don't do that, check my posts if you like, but when I stumble upon proto-{enter nationality of preference} threads I tend to get jolly. And when the said person that posts those theories, keeps refering to me and my nationality, I kind of forget myself. I will remove myself from the thread.


Posted By: MythTR
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 18:03
Flippant  I invite you to some seriousness.
 
 


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We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK


Posted By: Akolouthos
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 19:13
Northman warned you guys, and as none of you seem to be able to stay on topic, this thread is locked until further notice. Hopefully you can all learn to stay on topic, if it is ever opened again.
 
-Akolouthos



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