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Classical Music

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: All Empires Community
Forum Name: Modern Culture
Forum Description: Discussions on modern literature, visual arts and music...
Moderators: ulrich von hutten, King Kang of Mu
URL: http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=26064
Printed Date: 16-Dec-2018 at 18:42
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Topic: Classical Music
Posted By: Parnell
Subject: Classical Music
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 18:03
I've always liked the idea of liking classical music. Nearly ever piece of classical music I've ever heard I've automatically felt good towards it... The problem is that I don't know, anything, about classical music.

Could someone start me off with a 'reading list' equivelent for classical music? Say, 10 or 12  'classics'  for an absolute beginner?


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"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.



Replies:
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 19:37
So you like Classical music without knowing any title? Well, that proves well that the lovers of Classical music are simply snobs.

I personally listened and found it boring.

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http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3992/10ms4.jpg">



Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 20:06
No, it proves that I know nothing about it, you judgemental moron. From what I have heard (Over the radio, in films etc.) by and large I have liked.

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"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 20:33
Great to hear of your interest Parnell. I'm no expert, just a humble fan of the music we group together to call classical. Put simply, the classical era could be seen as a progression of periods, characterised and brought about by musical and even social movements.

Some major composers are:
- Vivaldi
- Beethoven
- Tchaikovsky
- Handel
- Bach
- Mozart
- Pachelbel
- Mahler
- Brahms

Those are just a few, and many would say there are more significant ones that some on my list.

In regards to some classics. This mightn't be the definitive list of model classical music - more a fusion of major pieces/symphonies and ones that are personal favourites.

- Cello Suites (Bach - Cello Suite No.1 Prelude is one of my favourite pieces)
- Canon (Pachelbel)
- The Four Seasons [Summer, Spring, Autumn, Winter] (Vivaldi)
- O Fortuna (Orff)
- 1812 Overture (Tchaikovsky)
- 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th symphonies (Beethoven)
- Adagietto from Symphony No.5 (Mahler)
- The Nutcracker (Tchaikovsky)

So, those are a few I'd recommend to get started on. You'd recognise most of them. I apologise to any classical/musical experts out there if I have made any minor errors. Enjoy listening!

Regards,

- Knights -


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Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 20:44
classical music is for nerds

=0

*Side-note: I got that quote from an old 80's movie. It does not reflect the views of this poster, or any other poster, or of this forum


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 20:45
Why thank you Ponce Cool

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Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 20:46
Mozart - Requiem Mass
Holst - The Planets
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring, Firebird Suite
Respighi - The Pines of Rome
Prokofiev - Alexander Nevsky, Lieutenant Kije, Scythian Suite
Moussoorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition, Night on Bald Mountain
Liszt - Battle of the Huns, Hungarian March to the Assault
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 21:32
Thanks all!

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"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 21:51
I'm a nerd but I hate Classical music. Seems so false for me.

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http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3992/10ms4.jpg">



Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 21:59
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

I'm a nerd but I hate Classical music. Seems so false for me.
 
Honestly, what has been the point of your two posts in this thread other than to try and pick a fight?  We understand that you do not like Classical music; why should that matter to those of us who do?  Let it go already!
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: King John
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 22:51
What no Wagner?


Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 23:04
The only classical music I knew by song name was Wagner (Ride of the Valkyries) and Vivaldi the four seasons. Of course I know nearly all them composers by name, but never actually listen to their stuff. after spending the last few hours listening to some of them, I can honestly say I've heard them all before. Amazing that music written so long ago can still lie in the public consciousness (Movies, tv advertisements, etc. etc.) yet be so unfamiliar when you sit down and listen to them! Thanks again for the beginners guide!

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"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.


Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2008 at 23:10
Originally posted by King John King John wrote:

What no Wagner?
 
I like the instrumental music of Wagner.  However, since I do not care much for opera, the solo vocals tend to get on my nerves.  I saw an all-instrumental version of The Ring and some other pieces on Amazon that I thought about getting sometime.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 05:26
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor Byzantine Emperor wrote:

Honestly, what has been the point of your two posts in this thread other than to try and pick a fight?  We understand that you do not like Classical music; why should that matter to those of us who do?  Let it go already!
 


It was not to pick a fight. Classical music has become a cult, it's the idea of it that makes people think they love it and I thought my opinion would be interesting.

It's not a music that express life feelings, like the folk, pop or rock music, but a genre addressing to the intellect, so is something a little lifeless.





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http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3992/10ms4.jpg">



Posted By: ulrich von hutten
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 06:09

Oh my god, hope that no one else will read your humbug.

The classical music is the pathfinder for all the pop and rock music, all you nerds are listening to.

 
Many of the early pop musicians were inspired by classic composers. And many of them were using classic elements in their pieces.
 
Most of the dilettantes, who are are leading the pop-charts today, doent have any idea of this music.
 
Spending 4 1/2 hours at a Wagner opera, is one the greatest moments you will ever have, nerds.


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http://imageshack.us">


Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 12:40
Brandemburg concertos of Bach, King Arthur by Henry Purcell, From the New world and the Slavonic Dances by Dvorak, Ma Vlast by Smetana, Carneval of Animals by Saint Seans...




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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 12:53
I like classical music in general, although I have prefferences for certain authors: Vivaldi, Bach and Mozart, for instance, are my favorites. I also like some pieces of Wagner, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Pachelbel, Muzorsky and many other authors as well.
I also love the Spanish Classical music of Joaquin Rodrigo, the barroque music of the Missions in South America, and the music of Vangelis, Wackeman and other rock musicians -that sound "classical" to me.
 
For me, Classical Music is not a music for nerds. It is music for people with some education and good taste.
 
For the people, let them to hear rap and Maddona... Ouch


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"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)


Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 13:06
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:


It's not a music that express life feelings, like the folk, pop or rock music, but a genre addressing to the intellect, so is something a little lifeless.


I think you haven't heard much of classical music then. You cannot judge from one author, because I don't like Brahms nor Albioni nor Corelli nor Locatelli and many, many others, you always find something you like. You cannot even say classical music as a whole, because you cannot compare Bach and/or Mozart with Sibelius or Stravinsky: they are a totally different kind of music even if it is all considered "classical music".


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 13:11
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

....
It's not a music that express life feelings, like the folk, pop or rock music, but a genre addressing to the intellect, so is something a little lifeless.
 
Music without feelings???
 
Listen the "Ride of the Valkyries" and you will want to go for a fight at a war!
Listen to the "Hymn to hapiness" of the 9th symphony, and you get happy
Or what about the "Tocata and fuge" of Bach, that put you in direct contact with the supernatural?
Just listen the "Requiem" of Mozart once, and tell us if it is not the greatest "tune" ever written.
 
Well, perhaps it is a matter of sensibility.


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"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)


Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 13:21
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Or what about the "Tocata and fuge" of Bach, that put you in direct contact with the supernatural?


Well didn't Beethoven said something like:"They call him Bach (stream in German, if I'm not wrong) while they should be calling him ocean" Smile


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 13:55

I must admitt, I don't lister to music period, pop or otherwise, however classical music, especially Beethoven, is simply too good to be ignored. I also like Tchaikovsy (1812 overture particularly).

Al-Jassas



Posted By: cahaya
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 18:04
classical music.. does traditional music in one country consider as a classical music?


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Posted By: Klaus Fleming
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 19:38
Originally posted by cahaya cahaya wrote:

classical music.. does traditional music in one country consider as a classical music?
Good point!
I personally love Russian Orthodox liturgical music, but is it classical or not? Rachmaninov wrote 'All Night Vigil' which would fall to the category of liturgical music, but Rachmaninov is also considered to be a classical composer.
But to get back to the original question of classical music, I would recommend my personal favourites Rachmaninov, Shostakovich and Sibelius.
 
And no, classical music is not elitist. Claiming otherwise, however, is.


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Quae ante pedes


Posted By: Siege Tower
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2008 at 15:00
I strongly recommand Bach's Goldberg variation and make sure it's played by Glenn Gould.
 


Posted By: sydney21
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2008 at 06:10
There are some very good "Classics in the Movies" compilation CDs around.  Find your local classic radio station and listen.
There's nothing snobby about classical music, except the prices for live performances.
It's in your genes, like the ability to distinguish between similar wines, or recognise a particular artwork, pick up the nuances of tennis or cricket or fishing or horse-raceing. 
 
 


Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2008 at 08:15
Originally posted by Siege Tower Siege Tower wrote:

I strongly recommand Bach's Goldberg variation and make sure it's played by Glenn Gould.
 
 
I will second to that!Clap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7LWANJFHEs - Goldberg Variations 1-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPIS5yvvT2Y&feature=related - Goldberg Variations 8-14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clDtiewclmg&feature=related - Gould plays Goldberg Variations var25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtt1msnwlZQ&feature=related - Gould plays Goldberg Variations var.26-30 & Ari...
 
Have you seen http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu.SwbUNJjYAAZkxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMTNuNTZzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=11no8otgm/EXP=1229242160/**http%3a//www.imdb.com/title/tt0108328 - Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould (1993) ?
 
If not, you can whaych in YouTube.  I will post the first one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWxfCq_6fdQ - 01/32 Thirty Two Short Films about Glenn Gould
 
Gould on Bach was good enough for NASA to represent the human intelligence of the planet Earth to the rest of the universe. 


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I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Siege Tower
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2008 at 21:29
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu King Kang of Mu wrote:

Originally posted by Siege Tower Siege Tower wrote:

 
Gould on Bach was good enough for NASA to represent the human intelligence of the planet Earth to the rest of the universe. 
 
Absolutely dude, he was indeed the best pianist ever lived.


Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 04:48
Originally posted by Siege Tower Siege Tower wrote:

Originally posted by King Kang of Mu King Kang of Mu wrote:

Originally posted by Siege Tower Siege Tower wrote:

 
Gould on Bach was good enough for NASA to represent the human intelligence of the planet Earth to the rest of the universe. 
 
Absolutely dude, he was indeed the best pianist ever lived.
 
I don't know about the best pianist ever lived, at certain level it does become more like that cleashay, 'comparing Picasso and van Gogh' and 99% of the time the right answer is also that cleashay answer, 'Oh, they all were the masters of their own style, no one's better, they are just different......blah blah blah.'.
 
But when it comes to Gould on Bach, his passion for perfection granted him the liberty of expression.  I used to have this book of letters he wrote.....
 
http://www.amazon.com/Glenn-Gould-Selected-Letters/dp/0195411420 - http://www.amazon.com/Glenn-Gould-Selected-Letters/dp/0195411420
 
 
 
 
 
But, it seems this crowd needs more of this before Glenn Gould, wouldn't you agree,Siege Tower?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqlXkr81t9c - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqlXkr81t9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku3TRcjLpyY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku3TRcjLpyY
 
Oh, c'mon I love Benjamin Britten too.  And I like that piece also, not just educational.
 
This scene was also very educational to me when I was young.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROllcRNrGI4 - Amadeus - Salieri helps Mozart write his Requiem
 
 


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I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 05:00
Benjamin Britten was integral to my interest in Classical music. I heard his 'Young Person's Guide To Orchestra' which he composed just after WWII, at the Sydney Opera House in 2007. It was a fantastic introduction to the intricacies and elements of a symphony, and sparked a deeper interest in 'classical' music.

In regards to the best pianist - I do not believe I can make a definitive judgment on the matter. Chopin and Rachmaninov would certainly have to be up there.


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Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 07:00
Originally posted by Knights Knights wrote:

Benjamin Britten was integral to my interest in Classical music. I heard his 'Young Person's Guide To Orchestra' which he composed just after WWII, at the Sydney Opera House in 2007. It was a fantastic introduction to the intricacies and elements of a symphony, and sparked a deeper interest in 'classical' music.

In regards to the best pianist - I do not believe I can make a definitive judgment on the matter. Chopin and Rachmaninov would certainly have to be up there.
 
Base on the music they wrote both Chopin and Rachmaninov would have been virtuosos themselves as players, especially in Rachmaninov's case which usually requires higher difficulty and skill level.  There are recordings to prove it fortunately.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RXnorFwfPA - Sergei Rachmaninov plays his piano concerto No 2
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA0kXDMKiLg&feature=related - Rachmaninov plays Rachmaninov Piano Concerto 3 ...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Cw0iqZDmM&feature=related - Rachmaninov plays Flight of the Bumble Bee
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORP4dlwNsKM&feature=related - Rachmaninoff plays Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini
 
 
But in Chopin's case we are not so lucky to have records of him playing.
Still everyone recognize and love Nocturne and Impromptu.  One time, me and one of my ex came home sat down on the couch I put on Nocturne and Impromptu, and we both just sat there listen to entire CD without saying a word, we were both started to cry. I mean it's a great day if you cried because you experienced something beautiful.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGRO05WcNDk - Chopin Nocturne Op.9 No.2 (Arthur Rubinstein)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvm2ZsRv3C8 - Yundi Li - Chopin "Fantasie" Impromptu, Op. 66
 
That made us cry but this made me laugh
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1-yWIJi-gg - Choppin Broccoli
 
But even better, how about....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj3CHx3TDzw&feature=related - Rachmaninoff plays Chopin Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2 ?
 
Can't diss Liszt after mentioning Chopin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srWOlCnY0K0&feature=related - Rachmaninoff plays Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2
 
 
 
But I've been getting into Erik Satie lately.  I must be still clinging onto my Fripp-Eno-Glass-Reich Minimalists days.  But Satie was John the Baptist of them all.  That makes Bach like Moses?
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIVp05sEPhE - Erik Satie - Gnossiennes No 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auZnxZ8dYY8&feature=related - Satie Gnossienne 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_w_lckqz8A&feature=related - Erik Satie - Gnossienne nº 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJQGM3MfqmI&feature=related - Erik Satie - Gnossienne No.4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIBgRO3GXCo&feature=related - Erik Satie - Gnossienne No.5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nQrAPgjVEI&feature=related - Norman sings "Je te veux" by Satie (1984)
 
 


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I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 11:45
I couldn't resist listening to those Rach. and Chopin links you gave. I love Rach's Piano Concerto No. 2 - it is so beautiful. Nocturne and Fantasie Impromptu are favourites as well.

As I said earlier in the thread, one of my favourite works is Bach's Cello Suites. Of the 6  suites, Prelude No. 1 is my favourite. It is also the most famous. Each suite is divided into the following six movements: (some have slight name variations depending on the suite)

1. Prelude
2. Allemande
3. Courante
4. Carabande
5. Galanteries
6. Gigue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E&feature=related - Cello Suite No. 1 - Prelude


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Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 17:26
Originally posted by Knights Knights wrote:

I couldn't resist listening to those Rach. and Chopin links you gave. I love Rach's Piano Concerto No. 2 - it is so beautiful. Nocturne and Fantasie Impromptu are favourites as well.

As I said earlier in the thread, one of my favourite works is Bach's Cello Suites. Of the 6  suites, Prelude No. 1 is my favourite. It is also the most famous. Each suite is divided into the following six movements: (some have slight name variations depending on the suite)

1. Prelude
2. Allemande
3. Courante
4. Carabande
5. Galanteries
6. Gigue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E&feature=related - Cello Suite No. 1 - Prelude
 
Yeah, Yo Yo Ma playing that was the second Classical album I ever bought for myself.   I was like 5th or 6 th grade.  Still, one of my favorite of all time, the first love if I may, especially No. 1 the one you linked.  Nothing fills a room like Cello.
 
But you being the one man dynasty of all the AE tournaments and competitions, may I digress into Rostropovich vs Yo Yo Ma vs Cascals vs Maisky? 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E - Rostropovich plays the Prelude from Bach's Cello Suite No. 1
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZn_VBgkPNY - Yo-Yo Ma plays the prelude from Bach´s Cello Suite No. ... 1
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcjeZ3o5us - Pablo Casals plays BACH - Suite no 1 for Cello - part 1
 
Maisky plays Bach' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqT9bt7qe_c - Suite for solo cello No. 1 in G major, BWV 1007 - Part ... 1
 
 
 
What you think?  I would assume you posted Rostropovich for a reason.   And Cascals and Rostropovich will always be number 1 and 2, whoever is 1.   And I love Maisky too, flawless.  But I must admit that me having spent my childhood in Korea and Yo Yo Ma being the most successful(?) Classical musician from Asia, not only I am subconsciously biased despite my meager conscious effort to be unbiased, but my ears have been trained into Yo Yo Ma's already for long time.
 
But Yo Yo Ma definitely brings different approach to it.  Some critics would say all his contrasts and stretched notes are emotionalism and contemporary commercialism, and I hear what they are saying.  But to my Yo Yo Ma trained ears Rostropovich almost too serious that I feel chased and uneasy, by the time the peak comes I am already tired whereas in Yo Yo Ma's I am so ready to climeb that peak.  Please don't take that as knock on Rostropovich, though.  Coltane can make me feel chased and uneasy and Kenny G can chill me out to death too.LOL 
 
Watching Cascals is like watching Jackie Gleason playing Minnesota Fats in The Hustler, effortlessly effective(  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEP2lDjps0o - The Hustler (1 of 2) - "Fats vs Eddie, Game 1 ...  ) which only comes with age and wisdom.  Yo Yo Ma puts great effots to get there.  Cascals is there. 
 
And I love Maisky and say he's flawless because I hear the least amount of his personality seeping through the music.   
 
That is what is so great about Classical music though, it seems that they play same old piece over and over and over, but they are all different expressions depends on who when and where it is played.  Of course, you must earn the right to express yourself by achieving the technical perfection first.  Just a minor chore.   
 
I tried to digress into one of those VS post, but the fact is, I love them all.  I am in the presence of the Masters. 


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I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 17:49
 Another I like is the Orpheus in the Underworld by Offenbach


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 23:56
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu King Kang of Mu wrote:

 
Yeah, Yo Yo Ma playing that was the second Classical album I ever bought for myself.   I was like 5th or 6 th grade.  Still, one of my favorite of all time, the first love if I may, especially No. 1 the one you linked.  Nothing fills a room like Cello.
 
But you being the one man dynasty of all the AE tournaments and competitions, may I digress into Rostropovich vs Yo Yo Ma vs Cascals vs Maisky? 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E - - Yo-Yo Ma plays the prelude from Bach´s Cello Suite No. ... 1
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcjeZ3o5us - - Suite for solo cello No. 1 in G major, BWV 1007 - Part ... 1
 
 
 
What you think?  I would assume you posted Rostropovich for a reason.   And Cascals and Rostropovich will always be number 1 and 2, whoever is 1.   And I love Maisky too, flawless.  But I must admit that me having spent my childhood in Korea and Yo Yo Ma being the most successful(?) Classical musician from Asia, not only I am subconsciously biased despite my meager conscious effort to be unbiased, but my ears have been trained into Yo Yo Ma's already for long time.
 
But Yo Yo Ma definitely brings different approach to it.  Some critics would say all his contrasts and stretched notes are emotionalism and contemporary commercialism, and I hear what they are saying.  But to my Yo Yo Ma trained ears Rostropovich almost too serious that I feel chased and uneasy, by the time the peak comes I am already tired whereas in Yo Yo Ma's I am so ready to climeb that peak.  Please don't take that as knock on Rostropovich, though.  Coltane can make me feel chased and uneasy and Kenny G can chill me out to death too.LOL 
 
Watching Cascals is like watching Jackie Gleason playing Minnesota Fats in The Hustler, effortlessly effective(  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEP2lDjps0o - Fats vs Eddie, Game 1 ...  ) which only comes with age and wisdom.  Yo Yo Ma puts great effots to get there.  Cascals is there. 
 
And I love Maisky and say he's flawless because I hear the least amount of his personality seeping through the music.   
 
That is what is so great about Classical music though, it seems that they play same old piece over and over and over, but they are all different expressions depends on who when and where it is played.  Of course, you must earn the right to express yourself by achieving the technical perfection first.  Just a minor chore.   
 
I tried to digress into one of those VS post, but the fact is, I love them all.  I am in the presence of the Masters. 


I'm happy to digress into versus Smile

But, as you said, it is hard to compare such masters. For me it comes down to bias - what I first listened to had the effect of imprinting the model expression of Prelude. For this reason I posted Rostropovich. He cops a lot of slack on youtube by commenters who curse his higher-tempo rendition, along with other whining complaints. To me though, The high-tempo evokes more emotion along the meandering lead-up to the climax. Rostropovich plays with such ease and beauty.

Yo Yo Ma's version of Prelude is nevertheless brilliant in my eyes. The way he utilises tempo rubato is fantastic, especially for a popular audience. It diversifies the piece and makes the climax more epic, in a way. Playing in a lower key as he does, suits the slightly slower, varied nature of Ma's version.

When I talk about these pieces and musicians, I sometimes find it hard to best convey my attitudes and thoughts - hence the long spiel.


On another note (excuse the pun) - the transitional music of Debussy is very interesting. Clair de Lune was one of the first pieces I got in to. I love both the orchestral and solo piano variations of the piece, depending on the mood, but tend to prefer the orchestral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzeCUlZz5aE - Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (orchestral)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvUepMa31o&feature=related -
Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (piano)

Regards,

- Knights -




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Posted By: Siege Tower
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 02:20
It would be a shame to not to mention the Carman fantasies by Pablo de Sarasate, a wonderful series of catchy tunes perfect for beginners to appreciate classical music.



Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 18:28
I love classical music and one of my favorites is Holt's Planet and Pictures at an Exihbition by a famouse Russian composer whose name I cannot recall at this moment. The latter I saw performed at Whitman College in Walla Walla, Washington.

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Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 19:29
Tchiakovsky is one of my favorites, alongside Beethoven. Russian composers in general have a certain vigor.

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Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 19:33
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Russian composer whose name I cannot recall at this moment. 

Mussorgsky!

Another good by him is the Night on bald mountain


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 04:42
Originally posted by Knights Knights wrote:


I'm happy to digress into versus Smile

But, as you said, it is hard to compare such masters. For me it comes down to bias - what I first listened to had the effect of imprinting the model expression of Prelude. For this reason I posted Rostropovich. He cops a lot of slack on youtube by commenters who curse his higher-tempo rendition, along with other whining complaints. To me though, The high-tempo evokes more emotion along the meandering lead-up to the climax. Rostropovich plays with such ease and beauty.

Yo Yo Ma's version of Prelude is nevertheless brilliant in my eyes. The way he utilises tempo rubato is fantastic, especially for a popular audience. It diversifies the piece and makes the climax more epic, in a way. Playing in a lower key as he does, suits the slightly slower, varied nature of Ma's version.

When I talk about these pieces and musicians, I sometimes find it hard to best convey my attitudes and thoughts - hence the long spiel.


On another note (excuse the pun) - the transitional music of Debussy is very interesting. Clair de Lune was one of the first pieces I got in to. I love both the orchestral and solo piano variations of the piece, depending on the mood, but tend to prefer the orchestral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzeCUlZz5aE - Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (orchestral)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvUepMa31o&feature=related -
Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (piano)

Regards,

- Knights -


 
It's great that we can both admit our biasednesses(is that a word?) and it only adds to our understanding of each other, instead of resentment.  And I totally empathies with your occational frustration conveying your thought on music because I feel the same way.   But What is so great about having an aesthetic discussion is that by its very own nature, we are talking about something beautiful.  And the Beauty often disarm us from ourselves when we need her the most.      
 
Even before I read your post the blue Debussy links stuck out the screen and I smiled right away.  Of course you knew Debussy is one of my favorite also.  Both links were great.  At first look though I thought the conductor was Eugene Ormandy at old age for a second, and then the footage looked too recent to him.
 
I used to fall aleep to 'La Mer' every night for weeks at a time. 
 
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXHud5Lxgk4&feature=related - Debussy "La Mer" -movement 1- Abbado Lucerne
"From dawn to noon on the sea" or "From dawn to midday on the sea" - very slowly (B minor)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2udZdSWXyE - Debussy "La Mer" Abbado Lucerne -movement 2 "Jeux de vagues"
"Play of the waves" or "Play of waves" - allegro (C sharp minor)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz5pCCX7Y_M - Debussy "La Mer" mvt.3 "Dialogue du vent et du mer ...
"Dialogue of the wind and the sea" or "Dialogue between wind and waves" - animated and tumultuous (C sharp minor)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Mer_%28Debussy%29 - La Mer (Debussy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 
 


-------------
I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 05:37
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu King Kang of Mu wrote:

It's great that we can both admit our biasednesses(is that a word?) and it only adds to our understanding of each other, instead of resentment.  And I totally empathies with your occational frustration conveying your thought on music because I feel the same way.   But What is so great about having an aesthetic discussion is that by its very own nature, we are talking about something beautiful.  And the Beauty often disarm us from ourselves when we need her the most.      
 
Even before I read your post the blue Debussy links stuck out the screen and I smiled right away.  Of course you knew Debussy is one of my favorite also.  Both links were great.  At first look though I thought the conductor was Eugene Ormandy at old age for a second, and then the footage looked too recent to him.
 
I used to fall aleep to 'La Mer' every night for weeks at a time. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXHud5Lxgk4&feature=related -
"From dawn to noon on the sea" or "From dawn to midday on the sea" - very slowly (B minor)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2udZdSWXyE -
"Play of the waves" or "Play of waves" - allegro (C sharp minor)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz5pCCX7Y_M - ...
"Dialogue of the wind and the sea" or "Dialogue between wind and waves" - animated and tumultuous (C sharp minor)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Mer_%28Debussy%29 - - La Mer (Debussy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 


Exactly - I see nothing wrong with our biases influencing our judgments when discussing music.

Ah yes - Debussy. A most amazing impressionist composer. Arguably one of the twentieth century's best. Clair de Lune is my favourite of his. I was glad to hear that you enjoy Debussy also. I have not consciously listened to La Mer before, so I listened to those links you gave. It is magnificent. In the end, I put my Blue Planet DVD on and played La Mer Mvt#2 in the background. Spectacular stuff.

It was interesting to read on the La Mer wiki article that it had a fairly poor reception when premiered, because of public disapproval of Claude's personal affairs. However, it's now seen as one of the foremost orchestral works of that century.

On another note, you mentioned you have been listening to Erik Satie lately. I realised I have his Gymnopedies on my computer. Gymnopedie No.1 is my favourite - it's rather slow pace has an ethereal feel to it, and almost physically slows down your thoughts and movements. Maybe its just psychological. Either way, I like it.

I'll end with this - another of my all-time favourite classical pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugpYUDn_X-k - Adagietto from Symphony No.5 1/2 - Mahler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdpV7QYSNbQ&feature=related -
Adagietto from Symphony No. 5 2/2 - Mahler

Regards,

- Knights -


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Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 10:23

I had a strong suspicion that Mahler might be up next.  Made me smile again.  For a second I thought you might hit up Ravel, while you were in the south side, but when I factor in the Britten factor, Mahler seems to the right direction.  Let me guess the next one.....   Bartok?

Well, both are over my head for sure.  Most of the major composers I can grasp the main ideas they are trying to express without formal education.  But when I get to Mahler and Bartok I just know that there are so much more harmonic and theoretic intricacies going on that it just intimidates me most of the time.  I gotta wait until guys like Stravinsky and Schoenberg show up to say, 'oh, I hear what he was trying with that right there......', again. 
 
Well, let me Ravel one up, love 'Bolero' but bit over played, how about....
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_36x1_LKgg&feature=related - Martha Argerich,Ravel Jeux d'eau
 
Oh, yeah, before I forget, just read in wiki that the Mahler piece you linked was the funeral song for Robert Kennedy, just a little historical side note.
 
 You wnet with #5, I'll go with his last one #9.
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuWwc-H4IY&feature=channel - Mahler 9th Symphony (1/9); 1st movement; Bernstein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgHthqHmfiw&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (2/9); 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqrJatkLYjQ&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (3/9); 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF4XxSEhZE4&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (4/9); 2nd m...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87oWn_eAEJ0&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (5/9); 2nd-3...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjBe6b974k&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (6/9); 3rd-4...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPKlIo4rdKk&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (7/9); 4th m...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUrgUJFQbTo&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (8/9); 4th m...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V52C_OBBQrE&feature=channel_page - Mahler 9th Symphony (9/9); 4th m...
 
 
================================================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Mahler - Gustav Mahler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
......

 Curse of the ninth

Mahler stated that the three final orchestral blows which are heard on the finale of his sixth symphony prophesied three things: losing his job, death of his daughter, and ultimately his own. Mahler was obsessed with Beethoven's legacy; he declared that all of his symphonies were "ninths", having the same impact and scale as Beethoven's famous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_%28Beethoven%29 - Choral . Mahler was also apparently a firm believer in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_ninth - curse of the ninth and thus terrified of writing a ninth numbered symphony. This is held to be the reason why he did not give a number to the symphonic work - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Lied_von_der_Erde - Das Lied von der Erde - which followed his Eighth, but instead described it merely as Eine Symphonie für eine Tenor- und eine Alt- (oder Bariton-) Stimme und Orchester (nach Hans Bethges "Die chinesische Flöte") (A symphony for one tenor and one alto (or baritone) voice and orchestra, after Hans Bethge's "The Chinese Flute"). The work can be considered a combination of song cycle and symphony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Bernstein - Leonard Bernstein , who was instrumental in championing Mahler's music after his lifetime, portrayed the Symphony as the prophetic musical statement of the 20th century crisis in classical music. Not only did Mahler know he would not live long after the work was completed in 1908, but (according to Bernstein) he also "prophesized" through the music that the death of major/minor tonality was soon at hand. A further extension of that idea also implied that the death of Faustian culture and perhaps the entire human race (the rumblings of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I - World War I were already apparent) would soon be at hand.

Mahler's unfinished tenth symphony was later orchestrated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deryck_Cooke - Deryck Cooke , with the apparent blessings of Alma Mahler. While Leonard Bernstein never performed or recorded this "realization," other conductors appreciated the work, both performing and recording it......

================================================================
 
 I'll be back with Bartok later unless someone beats me to him first which would be great actually, I'll take anything Bartok.  


-------------
I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 12:54
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu King Kang of Mu wrote:

I had a strong suspicion that Mahler might be up next.  Made me smile again.  For a second I thought you might hit up Ravel, while you were in the south side, but when I factor in the Britten factor, Mahler seems to the right direction.  Let me guess the next one.....   Bartok?

Well, both are over my head for sure.  Most of the major composers I can grasp the main ideas they are trying to express without formal education.  But when I get to Mahler and Bartok I just know that there are so much more harmonic and theoretic intricacies going on that it just intimidates me most of the time.  I gotta wait until guys like Stravinsky and Schoenberg show up to say, 'oh, I hear what he was trying with that right there......', again. 
 
Well, let me Ravel one up, love 'Bolero' but bit over played, how about....
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_36x1_LKgg&feature=related -  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuWwc-H4IY&feature=channel - - Mahler 9th Symphony (2/9); 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqrJatkLYjQ&feature=channel_page - - Mahler 9th Symphony (4/9); 2nd m...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87oWn_eAEJ0&feature=channel_page - - Mahler 9th Symphony (6/9); 3rd-4...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPKlIo4rdKk&feature=channel_page - - Mahler 9th Symphony (8/9); 4th m...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V52C_OBBQrE&feature=channel_page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_%28Beethoven%29 - - curse of the ninth and thus terrified of writing a ninth numbered symphony. This is held to be the reason why he did not give a number to the symphonic work - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Lied_von_der_Erde - (A symphony for one tenor and one alto (or baritone) voice and orchestra, after Hans Bethge's "The Chinese Flute"). The work can be considered a combination of song cycle and symphony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Bernstein - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I - - Deryck Cooke , with the apparent blessings of Alma Mahler. While Leonard Bernstein never performed or recorded this "realization," other conductors appreciated the work, both performing and recording it......

================================================================
 
 I'll be back with Bartok later unless someone beats me to him first which would be great actually, I'll take anything Bartok.  


If there was rhyme and reason to my direction - it was inadvertent Smile Go ahead and post some Bartok, as I am not too well versed in his music at all.

In terms of Mahler - I look into the technical side of his music as much as my lack-of-expertise takes me. But mainly, I just prefer to listen and ponder. I am an awful musician and have very little knowledge about the intricacies of classical music, so I am in no position to make an pretentious judgments about it.

Random interruption of train-of-thought: I am listening to Mahler's 9th now, and the climax in Mvt.1 is amazing!

Anyway, I have a friend who knows a lot about classical music and is a fine musician - she has taught me a lot. Unfortunately time is of the essence for now so I can't leave any links to music. I receive my results from final schooling exams, for university entry, in the morning. I wonder what music will be on the agenda for then. (Hopefully something triumphant like 1812 Overture Big%20smile).

Regards,

- Knights -


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Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 15:11
This is developing into a really good thread. I'll sticky it for ease of acess and we could post more contributions as well. 

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Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 18-Dec-2008 at 12:01
Thanks es_bih. Well, I can't let this thread die, so I'm going to post some more thoughts and music. It did turn out that I got to play the triumphant cacophony of the 1812 overture this morning, so I am pleased.

In a shift back to arguably the most famous classical composer Beethoven, I've gone with a less famous symphony of his (but nonetheless spectacular). Beethoven's 7th is a beautiful symphony characterised by luscious melody climaxing to sonic crescendo. Well that is one abstract way of putting it. The second movement is the highlight for me. Here it is, conducted by the great Herbert Karajan (it's all movements, so is quite long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8eigkwmMEo&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8eigkwmMEo&feature=related

Around four minutes and the blood starts to get pumping briefly. He's almost toying with you. Just a short post for today.

Regards,

- Knights -


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Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 18-Dec-2008 at 18:49
Wow, jusyt got done listening to all 33 mins of the link you posted, Knight.  I wonder what year the footage is from.  Karajan looks like at the peak of his career.  But the footage is rather in high quality. 
 
Here is a little footage of a Korean singer, Jo Sumi auditioning for Karajan, about 20 years ago.  Now famous Cecilia Bartoli accompanying her as Mezzo.  Just another day at the office with uncle Hervert.
 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1104D769D1517C4A&playnext=1&v=nuJIrBNN6zc - Sumi Jo, Cecilia Bartoli & Hervert von Karajan
 
 
She is the most celebrated Korean Oprera singer if not most most celebrated Korean Classical musicians all together.
 
a couple more of her doing ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakm%C3%A9 - Lakmé ' by Delibes.  The first one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flower_Duet - The Flower Duet ("Sous le dôme epais") is quite popular piece and everyone will recognize.  I've actually posted that one in 'What you are listening to' thread about a month or two ago.....
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4MmatVblDk - Sumi Jo & Ah-Kyung Lee - Delibes - Lakme - Flower Duet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAj9R3BwhCw&feature=related - Sumi Jo - Delibes - Lakme - Bell Song
 
It will be a short one for me today too but I will be back with more Bartok as I promised.  It's just that he's such a heavy hitter for me.......
 
  


-------------
I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Count Belisarius
Date Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 20:22
Mozarts lighter pieces. Good stuff  


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 11-Feb-2009 at 03:44
Such as his clarinet concertos? Yes a lot of his work can be nice. I like Marriage of Figaro Overture Smile

I don't know if Tchaikovsky has been brought up much in this thread? His work is very solid and idiosyncratic. He would be my favourite of the Russian composers simply because of the sheer range of his compositions, and because they are all of world-class standard. Piano Concerto No. 1 and 1812 have got to be among the best.


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Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2009 at 03:25
Originally posted by Knights Knights wrote:


If there was rhyme and reason to my direction - it was inadvertent Smile Go ahead and post some Bartok,
 
Belated but toking up some Bartok here.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTBC734Lljk&feature=channel_page - Romanian Folk Dances
 
There is a rather heated conversation about the muted sound of the violin, but I like it like Yo Yo on Bach.  Here is a different performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uYnpJAkLjQ&feature=related - Bartok - Romanian Folk Dances
 
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/bartok.html - http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/bartok.html
Béla Bartók (March 25, 1881-September 26, 1945), the greatest Hungarian composer, was one of the most significant musicians of the twentieth century. He shared with his friend Zoltán Kodály, another leading Hungarian composer, a passion for ethnomusicology. His music was invigorated by the themes, modes, and rhythmic patterns of the Hungarian and other folk music traditions he studied, which he synthesized with influences from his contemporaries into his own distinctive style..... 
 
......Unlike Kodály, Bartók also became interested in other folk traditions, studying the folk music of Romanians, Slovakians, Serbs, Croatians, Bulgarians, Turks, and North Africans as well as Hungarians. In 1906, while visiting Algeria, Bartók had a vision of how he might begin to order scattered folk tunes of the world. This, as he recalled, ended any desire on his part for the kind of career others had projected for him, as "the future master of the most charming salon music." Afterwards, the main task of his life was to collect, analyze, and catalogue major portions of the world's folk music.

This multi-ethnic interest caused Bartók trouble, especially after World War I when Slovakians and Romanians were no longer part of Hungary. Areas in which Bartók had previously been free to explore and do research were no longer open to him. Moreover, he endured much criticism at home for his "unpatriotic" interest in the peoples of nations hostile to Hungary. Nostalgic for the ethnic diversity of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire, Bartók dreamed of the "brotherhood of people, brotherhood in spite of all wars and conflicts." .......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/bartok.html - http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/bartok.html
......In 1898 he was accepted by the Vienna Conservatory, but following Dohnányi he went to the Budapest Academy (1899-1903), where he studied the piano with http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/liszt.html - Liszt's pupil Istvan Thoman and composition with Janos Koessler. There he deepened his acquaintance with http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/wagner.html - Wagner , though it was the music of http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/strauss_r.html - Strauss , which he met at the Budapest premiere of Also sprach Zarathustra in 1902, that had most influence. He wrote a symphonic poem, Kossuth (1903), using Strauss's methods with Hungarian elements in Liszt's manner.

In 1904 Kossuth was performed in Budapest and Manchester; at the same time Bartók began to make a career as a pianist, writing a Piano Quintet and two Lisztian virtuoso showpieces (Rhapsody op.1, Scherzo op.2). Also in 1904 he made his first Hungarian folksong transcription. In 1905 he collected more songs and began his collaboration with Kodály: their first arrangements were published in 1906. The next year he was appointed Thoman's successor at the Budapest Academy, which enabled him to settle in Hungary and continue his folksong collecting, notably in Transylvania. Meanwhile his music was beginning to be influenced by this activity and by the music of http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/debussy.html - Debussy that Kodály had brought back from Paris: both opened the way to new, modal kinds of harmony and irregular metre. The 1908 Violin Concerto is still within the symphonic tradition, but the many small piano pieces of this period show a new, authentically Hungarian Bartók emerging, with the 4ths of Magyar folksong, the rhythms of peasant dance and the scales he had discovered among Hungarian, Romanian and Slovak peoples. The arrival of this new voice is documented in his String Quartet no.1 (1908), introduced at a Budapest concert of his music in 1910......

 ......While composing The Mandarin Bartók came under the influence of http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/stravinsky.html - Stravinsky and http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/schonberg.html - Schönberg , and produced some of his most complex music in the two violin sonatas of 1921-2. At the same time he was gaining international esteem: his works were published by Universal Edition and he was invited to play them all over Europe. He was now well established, too, at home. He wrote the confident Dance Suite (1923) for a concert marking the 50th anniversary of Budapest, though there was then another lull in his composing activity until the sudden rush of works in 1926 designed for himself to play, including the Piano Concerto no.1, the Piano Sonata and the suite Out of Doors. These exploit the piano as a percussion instrument, using its resonances as well as its xylophonic hardness. The search for new sonorities and driving rhythms was continued in the next two string quartets (1927-8), of which no.4, like the concerto, is in a five-section palindromic pattem (ABCBA). .....
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Bart%C3%B3k - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Bart%C3%B3k

......Bartók is an influential http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism_%28music%29 - modernist and his music used or may be analysed as containing various modernist techniques such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonality - atonality , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitonality - bitonality , attenuated harmonic function, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymodal_chromaticism - polymodal chromaticism , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projected_set - projected sets , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privileged_pattern - privileged patterns , and large set types used as source sets such as the equal tempered twelve tone aggregate, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octatonic_scale - octatonic scale (and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_chord - alpha chord ), the diatonic and heptatonia seconda seven-note scales, and less often the whole tone scale and the primary pentatonic collection (Wilson 1992, 24–29).

He rarely used the simple aggregate actively to shape musical structure, though there are notable examples such as the second theme from the first movement of his Second Violin Concerto, commenting that he "wanted to show Schoenberg that one can use all twelve tones and still remain tonal" (Gillies 1990, 185).......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYB591f4bBk - Itzhak Perlman plays Bartok Violin Concerto 2 (1/5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZRcQ-1D-qk&feature=related - Itzhak Perlman plays Bartok Violin Concerto 2 ... (2/5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhFnFoZiIac&feature=related - Itzhak Perlman plays Bartok Violin Concerto 2 ... (3/5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE1OO7zZ9yY&feature=related - Itzhak Perlman plays Bartok Violin Concerto 2 ... (4/5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEGhbk_s8A4&feature=related - Itzhak Perlman plays Bartok Violin Concerto 2 ... (5/5)
 
 
 
 
I would love to elaborate why Bartok is so great with my impeccable music theory comprehension but all I can feel is the compassion for the extend of own ignorance, he he.  I know his works embodies and explores many different musical ideas, schools and traditions some involving very Avant Garde and experimental, controversial rather intellectual in his time.  But like that wiki quote of him about Schoenberg, while experimenting and implementing new intellectual ideas he always left the grace of a melody to come through and take you in.  I have mad respect for Schoenberg and other far out Avant Garde composers, but do i love Schoenberg's pieces?  It takes lotta efforts.  Bartok can take you out there too, but it always feel like coming home.
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2niZ2hDl14&feature=related - Bartók: Contrasts for Clarinet, Violin & Piano ... (mvt I & II)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Nhw1YQRrQ&feature=related - Bartók: Contrasts for Clarinet, Violin & Piano ... (mvt III)
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdubIhGqLY - Bartok Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta (I) Dohnányi, NDR SO  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK4YyDBoboU - Bartók Music for Strings Percussion and Celesta (II) Dohnányi, NDR SO  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeKWcOBlds4 - Bartók Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta (III) Dohnányi, NDR SO
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM0EKn0q5t8 - Bartók plays Liszt Sursum Corda   


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I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2009 at 03:48
Good to have some renewed discussion. And wow I have a lot of listening to do! I'll get to that now...and post again later.

Just a few (possibly impossible to answer) questions, Kang - is Bartok your favourite composer? Do you have a favourite piece?

Regards,

- Knights -


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Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2009 at 04:42
Wooo, I feel unqualified to claim him as 'My Favorite', perhaps someone I like to be able to appreciate more.  I love the Romanian Dances though and his other folksy pieces, almost like Gershwin of Gypsy Music, yet he can still satisfy my Philip Glass, John Cage, Xenakis, Stockhausen, etc trained later 20th century Post-Modern, Conceptual and Serial Music influence, pehpaps those guys listened to Bartok too, I'd assume.
 
My favorite Rock guitarist of all time Robert Fripp of King Crimson once said in an interview after seeing Jimi Hendrix playing live for the first time, that it made him wanting to create music that would sound like Jimi playing Bartok. Too bad, Jimi was talking about enrolling into Berklee Music Conservatory to study Classical composition just before his untimely death. 
 
I think Jimi would have liked this one, a rare Orchestral work for Bartok
 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAEMv1gV-9k - Bartok Concerto for Orchestra, V Finale: Pesante - Presto  
 
Intense, ain't it? 
 


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I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: JRson
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 06:03

Nice Thread! My favourite composer is J.S.Bach, a German composer and organist whose sacred and secular works for choir, orchestra, and solo instruments drew together the strands of the Baroque period and brought it to its ultimate maturity. Although he introduced no new forms, he enriched the prevailing German style with a robust contrapuntal technique, an unrivalled control of harmonic and motivic organisation in composition for diverse instrumentation, and the adaptation of rhythms and textures from abroad, particularly Italy and France.

Revered for their intellectual depth, technical command and artistic beauty, Bach's works include the Brandenburg concertos, the Goldberg Variations, the Partitas, the Well-Tempered Clavier, the Mass in B Minor, the St. Matthew Passion, the St. John Passion, the Magnificat, The Musical Offering, The Art of Fugue, the English Suites, the French Suites, the Sonatas and Partitas for violin solo, the Cello Suites, more than 200 surviving cantatas, and a similar number of organ works, including the celebrated Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.

While Bach's fame as an organist was great during his lifetime, he was not particularly well-known as a composer. His adherence to Baroque forms and contrapuntal style was considered "old-fashioned" by his contemporaries, especially late in his career when the musical fashion tended towards Rococo and later Classical styles. A revival of interest and performances of his music began early in the 19th century, and he is now widely considered to be one of the greatest composers in the Western tradition.

(from Wikipedia)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOVwokQnV4M - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOVwokQnV4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyOf_L4cNHc - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyOf_L4cNHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXoyr_FyFw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXoyr_FyFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkJ03vm8FJk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkJ03vm8FJk


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http://goodparty.co.uk/">


Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 10:48
P.D.Q. Bach. Big smile


Posted By: Tryskochvost
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 16:37
I like mozart, beethoven, grieg, elgar, martinu, dvorak, smetana, pachelbel [canon]

I play on violoncello, so it is not surprise my favourite composition is dvorak b/minor


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"Toho bohda nebude, aby Cesky kral z boje utikal"(Let it never be the case that a Bohemian king runs from a fight!] John the Blind-king of Bohemia,in battle for Crecy


Posted By: Emperor Barbarossa
Date Posted: 31-May-2009 at 14:20
My favorites are Brahms' Hungarian Dances, Bruch's Scottish Concierto, Dvorak's 9th Symphony, Slavonic Dances, Cello Concierto in B Minor, Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony, Hebrides Overture, Scottish Symphony, Rimsky Korsakov's Scheherzades, and lastly Tchiakovsky's 1812 Overture.

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Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2009 at 04:27
Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa Emperor Barbarossa wrote:

My favorites are Brahms' Hungarian Dances, Bruch's Scottish Concierto, Dvorak's 9th Symphony, Slavonic Dances, Cello Concierto in B Minor, Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony, Hebrides Overture, Scottish Symphony, Rimsky Korsakov's Scheherzades, and lastly Tchiakovsky's 1812 Overture.
 
Those are good ones.  I just bought a CD of Slavonic Dances recently.  Very nice and up-beat.
 


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http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas


Posted By: Batu
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2009 at 09:50
The catch in listening classical music is the objective of doing it. People usually listen to classic music for relaxing,yes it helps(sometimes,sometimes it makes everything worse);but there is something more important in classical music. It contains emotions,ideas,incidents. And the best of all,you can use your imagination. I personally,advice you Tchiakovsky's Swan Lake Ballet Suite,op 20,waltz;anything from the Nutcracker;Four Seasons;Schubert:Symphony No.8 "unfinished".

P.S: Yes,I am a nerd.


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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )



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