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Tesla

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: General World History
Forum Description: All aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods
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Topic: Tesla
Posted By: think
Subject: Tesla
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2007 at 10:16
Nicola Tesla was an ethnic Serb who lived in Croatia. What are the roots for his last name, it doesnt sound typically Serbian. I always asumed he was Russian.





Replies:
Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 04:26

There are disputes and debates arguing whether he was Croat or Serb. He was most likely not a Russian, though he can be kind of related due to his Slavik race. We can't judge this due to lack of evidence available, but what is important is that he was a brilliant inventor who shaped the world.



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Posted By: Onkel_Wowa
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2007 at 22:57
What is the difference between Serbs and Croatians? As far as I know, they speak the same language.


Posted By: Dan Carkner
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 16:33
Serbs are Orthodox Christians, Croatians are Catholics.   As well they have distinct histories that go beyond their current-day religion-- although they have a lot in common as well.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 16:57
Nicola Tesla was an Istro-Romanian. His real name was Nicolae Teslea. His father was the Orthodox priest Milutin Teslea. The original name of the family was Draghici (a name common also in Romania) but changed with the nicname "Teslea", which in both Istro-Romanian and Romanian means bass (the carpenter's tool) and in Serbian means nothing. His family was one of carpenters.


He was born in Lica province of Istria peninsula, which was compactly inhabited by Istro-Romanians since 15-16th centuries.


Is time for people arround the world to consider the true ethnic origin of Tesla.

See


http://www.filimon.com/NikolaTesla.htm - http://www.filimon.com/NikolaTesla.htm

Other famous Romanian inventors which were wrongly disconsidered or wrongly considered are Stefan Odobleja, the true inventor of Cybernetics, Henry Coanda, the inventor of jet reaction.

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Posted By: Giannis
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 19:32
In 1936, Tesla send to Dr Vladko Macek the following telegram: "I'm equally proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland''.
 


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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 20:15
Is not excluded to be a fake document.


How do you explain the names of family's members:


-Father: Milutin Teslea. Formerly, the family of the father was called Draghici. What is origin of Tesla name? Is Draghici more common among Serbians or among Romanians?

-Mother: Gica Mandici. Is Mandici a Serbian name? Or a very Romanian name? Isn't Gica a short form of Georgica, a Romanian name?

-Sisters: Anghelina, Milica, Marita. Is Anghelina meet at Serbians? At Romanians was common and is still used. Milica (pronounced Milika) is a short form of Romanian Emilia. Marita is a form of Maria, is meet also in other Balkanic languages but usualy at Romanians.

-Brother: Dan. Is this short form of Daniel as common among Serbians as it is among Romanians? (Dan is far more used than Daniel among Romanians)

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Posted By: Giannis
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 21:47
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

Is not excluded to be a fake document.


How do you explain the names of family's members:


-Father: Milutin Teslea. Formerly, the family of the father was called Draghici. What is origin of Tesla name? Is Draghici more common among Serbians or among Romanians?

-Mother: Gica Mandici. Is Mandici a Serbian name? Or a very Romanian name? Isn't Gica a short form of Georgica, a Romanian name?

-Sisters: Anghelina, Milica, Marita. Is Anghelina meet at Serbians? At Romanians was common and is still used. Milica (pronounced Milika) is a short form of Romanian Emilia. Marita is a form of Maria, is meet also in other Balkanic languages but usualy at Romanians.

-Brother: Dan. Is this short form of Daniel as common among Serbians as it is among Romanians? (Dan is far more used than Daniel among Romanians)
 
It doesn't seem as a fake, and what does name's have to do, with what that man felt as his homeland? My name has hebrew origins (Giannis) but I don't feel hebrew at all. 


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Give me a place to stand and I will move the world.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 23:04
Quote It doesn't seem as a fake


If the fake documents would appear fake, they would be useless.

If the document is not fake, it may have another explanation: in 1936 Istria was under Italian fascist rule. The Croatian Ustashi were not seeing well the Istro-Romanians. In 1941-1945 Ustashi killed 750.000 Serbs, Jews and Roma people from Croatia (1.500.000 after Serbian sources, see http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/ww2/book/Paris-genocide.html - Genocide in Satellite Croatia 1941- 1945 ) under the principle "a third will be converted to Catholicism, a third will be driven away and a third will be killed".

Assuming his Istro-Romanian origin would have led to a universal promotion of the idenity of the Istro-Romanians but on short term could lead to persecutions against his family and even against his small people.


Quote what does name's have to do, with what that man felt as his homeland? My name has hebrew origins (Giannis) but I don't feel hebrew at all.

The names shows he was from a Romanic language speaking people.

What importance is how somebody feels?

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Posted By: Giannis
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2007 at 07:04
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:




Quote what does name's have to do, with what that man felt as his homeland? My name has hebrew origins (Giannis) but I don't feel hebrew at all.

The names shows he was from a Romanic language speaking people.

What importance is how somebody feels?
 
Well from my point of view is the only thing that matters, if you feel closer to another culture, you have been raized in another environment than that of your ancestors and finally if your closer links are all from a different ethnic background. Then I guess that is natural for a romanian origin man to feel serb, or as another forumer post :
 
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Specially when your have had all your life indigenous friends, relatives in law, bosses and people you admire. When you grew up in the same schools and worked in the same jobs. When you eat the same food and enjoy the same traditional music. When you read indigenous poetry or visit indigenous ruins hundreds of years old.
 


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Give me a place to stand and I will move the world.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2007 at 12:13
Quote Well from my point of view is the only thing that matters, if you feel closer to another culture, you have been raized in another environment than that of your ancestors and finally if your closer links are all from a different ethnic background. Then I guess that is natural for a romanian origin man to feel serb, or as another forumer post :


Such ideas are rather philosophy than history, science. On topics like this one, we try to clarifiy the historical truth.

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Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 14:30
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

Is not excluded to be a fake document.


How do you explain the names of family's members:


-Father: Milutin Teslea. Formerly, the family of the father was called Draghici. What is origin of Tesla name? Is Draghici more common among Serbians or among Romanians?

-Mother: Gica Mandici. Is Mandici a Serbian name? Or a very Romanian name? Isn't Gica a short form of Georgica, a Romanian name?

-Sisters: Anghelina, Milica, Marita. Is Anghelina meet at Serbians? At Romanians was common and is still used. Milica (pronounced Milika) is a short form of Romanian Emilia. Marita is a form of Maria, is meet also in other Balkanic languages but usualy at Romanians.

-Brother: Dan. Is this short form of Daniel as common among Serbians as it is among Romanians? (Dan is far more used than Daniel among Romanians)


Father- Milutin Tesla, not Teslae. Formerly, the family of the father was not called Draghici, but according to the information given by Jovan Dučić his family originates from the tribe of Pilatovci, while other versions say he originates from the families of Draginić and Komnenović- typical Southslavic, Serbian names.
Mother's name is not Gica, but Đuka, short from Georgina (born Mandić- not Mandichi)- again typical names used by Serbs. Brothers and sisters- Dane (again typical name amongst Serbo-Croatians- I have two cousins with such a name and both of them are Serbs)- not Dan, Angelina, Milka (pronounced Milka, not Milika), short from Milica (pronounced Militza, not Milika) and Marica (pronounced Maritza not Marika).
Did he had any relations to Vlachs?- yes indeed- and he must have had some  Illyrian blood too, as well as 99,99% per cent of Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks, but that doesn't mean he was Romanian.
Menumorut- where on Earth did you find this source to make such a claim?



Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 15:38
On Romanian language sites:


http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla - http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

http://www.istro-romanian.net/articles/art990111.html - http://www.istro-romanian.net/articles/art990111.html



But from where are your sources? Why should be yours more autoritative than mine?



What means Tesla in Serbian? If you say that the family beared another name previously, why changed with Tesla?



Henry Coanda, the inventor of the jet reaction, says in a tape recording that he has meet Tesla in 1893 and that he was a Romanian from Banat (ofcourse a confussion, Tesla was an Istro-Romanian).

On that magnetophon tape, Coanda exclames:

"You see, one of the most important Romanians, who perhaps changed the life of all humanity, was a Banatian!"



Please answer: is true that Tesla's family is from a region compactly inhabited by Istro-Romanians?

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Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 11:18
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

On Romanian language sites:


http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla - http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

http://www.istro-romanian.net/articles/art990111.html - http://www.istro-romanian.net/articles/art990111.html



But from where are your sources? Why should be yours more autoritative than mine?



What means Tesla in Serbian? If you say that the family beared another name previously, why changed with Tesla?



Henry Coanda, the inventor of the jet reaction, says in a tape recording that he has meet Tesla in 1893 and that he was a Romanian from Banat (ofcourse a confussion, Tesla was an Istro-Romanian).

On that magnetophon tape, Coanda exclames:

"You see, one of the most important Romanians, who perhaps changed the life of all humanity, was a Banatian!"



Please answer: is true that Tesla's family is from a region compactly inhabited by Istro-Romanians?


In English version of  Wikipedia we have not one word about possible Tesla's Romanian origin.

I have never read a single page in the officially recognized historical documents or books written by prominent historians who dealt with this matter where they mention possible Romanian origin of Nikola Tesla. 

To answer your last question; NO- Tesla is not from the region compactly inhabited by Istro-Romanians, he was from the region compactly inhabited by South Slavs. Today, according to the last census, from that region (Ličko-Senjska zupanija) only non-Slavic minority there are Albanians with 0,2% of total population.

Romanian wikipedia as their reference point uses a site which deals with the alternative history (http://ro.altermedia.info/istorie-alternativa/).
I don't deal with the alternative history and I don't believe that illegitimate child of Marilyn Monroe and John Kennedy grew up in Romanian orphanage, nor that Al Gore is an ethnic Romanian as the Romanian "National Journal" wrote which published the story about Tesla's "Romanian" origin in the first place.

Your other "source", Henry Coanda couldn't even get Tesla's place of birth right, not to mention his origin.

English wikipedia gives all the references you need (about 50 of them and about 100 notes to go with it) Check anyone you like. That is why I believe my sources are far better than yours.

Tesla was a Serb from Croatia, equally devoted to both his Serbian origin and to his Croatian homeland.

Again, I say, most of us do have Romanian blood, especially Serbs, but that doesn't changes the fact that he was no more Romanian or no less Serb than I am.

P.S. "Think"- Tesla's family name originates from Lika and can only be found in Lika. The name originates from the razor of the woodcutter. Allegedly, their family had a distinguished front teeth which attributed to their name. It is only hear-say, so it cannot be a reliable source.


Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 12:38
I know he was a human from Earth

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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 13:38
Originally posted by Illirac Illirac wrote:

I know he was a human from Earth


Hehhe, touche...


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 15:30
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

Nicola Tesla was an Istro-Romanian. His real name was Nicolae Teslea. His father was the Orthodox priest Milutin Teslea. The original name of the family was Draghici (a name common also in Romania) but changed with the nicname "Teslea", which in both Istro-Romanian and Romanian means bass (the carpenter's tool) and in Serbian means nothing. His family was one of carpenters.


He was born in Lica province of Istria peninsula, which was compactly inhabited by Istro-Romanians since 15-16th centuries.


Is time for people arround the world to consider the true ethnic origin of Tesla.

See


http://www.filimon.com/NikolaTesla.htm - http://www.filimon.com/NikolaTesla.htm

Other famous Romanian inventors which were wrongly disconsidered or wrongly considered are Stefan Odobleja, the true inventor of Cybernetics, Henry Coanda, the inventor of jet reaction.


Culturally and ethnically he was a Serb, saw himself as a Serb, died a Serb.



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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 17:34
Quote In English version of Wikipedia we have not one word about possible Tesla's Romanian origin.


What an argument! Are you sure you try to make an objective opinion?




Quote
To answer your last question; NO- Tesla is not from the region compactly inhabited by Istro-Romanians, he was from the region compactly inhabited by South Slavs. Today, according to the last census, from that region (Ličko-Senjska zupanija) only non-Slavic minority there are Albanians with 0,2% of total population.


Today is after more than 100 years. The Istro-Romanians have been mostly assimilated, is one of the most endangered communities of Europe. Other Romance groups from the region have vanished, like the Romance Dalmats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6502/ - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6502/



Quote
Romanian wikipedia as their reference point uses a site which deals with the alternative history (http://ro.altermedia.info/istorie-alternativa/).
I don't deal with the alternative history and I don't believe that illegitimate child of Marilyn Monroe and John Kennedy grew up in Romanian orphanage, nor that Al Gore is an ethnic Romanian as the Romanian "National Journal" wrote which published the story about Tesla's "Romanian" origin in the first place.


Altermedia is something else than alternative history, anyway, the information from Altermedia is fully taken from the site of the Istro-Romanian organization:

http://www.istro-romanian.net/articles/art990111.html - http://www.istro-romanian.net/articles/art990111.html




Quote
English wikipedia gives all the references you need (about 50 of them and about 100 notes to go with it) Check anyone you like. That is why I believe my sources are far better than yours.


Not the number matters. If you check them you'll see that all have taken the same words from somewhere.




I searched the web and I found some Croatian website speaking about his father:



Milutin Tesla was born in Raduc, county Medak, Lika, on February 19, 1819. The Serbs came to Raduc from around Knin in the 1690s, having arrived there from western Serbia, via Hercegovina. The name Tesla denotes either a trade, as tesla is Serbian for adze- a small axe with a blade at right angles to the handle - or a physical characteristic, such as protruding teeth, prevalent in the Tesla family. The name Tesla is also found in Ukraine.


In Roman times, there was a place near Raduc, called Tesleum. Milutin's father, Nikola, was born in 1789, and during the Napoleonic wars, when Krajina was   part of the newly-formed French Province of Illyricum, was a sergeant in the French army. He married Ana Kalinic, from the family of Colonel Kalinic, who is mentioned in the Raduc military records for 1735 and 1754; sometime after 1815, and the return of the old Austrian order, he moved to Gospic.

Nikola and Ana had two sons: Milutin and Josif, and three daughters: Stanka, Janja, and one whose name has not been remembered.

http://www.serbnatlfed.org/Archives/Tesla/tesla-father.htm - http://www.serbnatlfed.org/Archives/Tesla/tesla-father.htm


I'm asking if tesla is a real Serbian word, because I searched some Serbian-English dictionaries and didn't found, as tesla can be found in Romanian-English dictionaries.


And look some interesting thing:


Certificate reports that he was born on June 28 (Julian calendar; July 10 in the Gregorian calendar), and christened by the Serb orthodox priest, Toma Oklobd'ija. It is interesting to note that he was a Serbian of Valachian descent.


http://www.frank.germano.com/nikolatesla.htm - http://www.frank.germano.com/nikolatesla.htm

Is interesting that this is the source from where many sites have taken the text but omited the part with the Valachian descent. To verify this, search for Toma Oklobd'ija.



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Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 18:40
so what?...Because Berlin derive from the slavic word berlo(which means pole) do I have to think that the germans are slavs?, nonsense...a name origin is no proof

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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 19:27


1. What an argument! Are you sure you try to make an objective opinion?

Check any non-Romanian Wikipedia and you'll find nothing regarding the Romanian origin of Nikola Tesla.



2. Today is after more than 100 years. The Istro-Romanians have been mostly assimilated, is one of the most endangered communities of Europe. Other Romance groups from the region have vanished, like the Romance Dalmats:

Hundred years ago Lika didn't have Istro-Romanians. Romanians have been assimilated hundreds of years ago before Tesla was born. There are places in Bosnia still called Romanija, Vlasenica, Vlaić, etc., but non of the population there considers themselves to be of Romanian origin. The are either Serbs,  Bosniaks, or Croats. They speak South Slavic language.


3. Altermedia is something else than alternative history, anyway, the information from Altermedia is fully taken from the site of the Istro-Romanian organization...

Link clearly says Alternative History (I can easily recognize words alternative and history). Since I cannot read Romanian, give me an English version of the source.

4. Not the number matters. If you check them you'll see that all have taken the same words from somewhere.

Yes, numbers in this case do in fact matter.

5. I'm asking if tesla is a real Serbian word, because I searched some Serbian-English dictionaries and didn't found, as tesla can be found in Romanian-English dictionaries.

The word in a similar form is used by Serbs and Croats (and Bosniaks, and Montenegrins) but it's not a Slavic word.
Is Vlad Tepesh Slavic just because Vlad is a Slavic name?


6. And look some interesting thing:
Certificate reports that he was born on June 28 (Julian calendar; July 10 in the Gregorian calendar), and christened by the Serb orthodox priest, Toma Oklobd'ija. It is interesting to note that he was a Serbian of Valachian descent.

Is interesting that this is the source from where many sites have taken the text but omited the part with the Valachian descent. To verify this, search for Toma Oklobd'ija.

Or this site got things wrong and included Valachian descent? It really doesn't matter.
There are families called Vlasich, but they are also Serbs or Croats. They were assimilated hundreds of years ago into the Slavic lingual family, thereby creating a nation of Serbs, or Croats, or Bosniaks, or Montenegrins, etc.
I don't think that anyone would hid his possible Wallachian  descent since there are so many families with Wallachian origin (like my own), and it's quite normal thing for someone who is a Serb, but it doesn't mean I'm Romanian.



Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 20:10
Quote Hundred years ago Lika didn't have Istro-Romanians. Romanians have been assimilated hundreds of years ago before Tesla was born. There are places in Bosnia still called Romanija, Vlasenica, Vlaić, etc., but non of the population there considers themselves to be of Romanian origin. The are either Serbs, Bosniaks, or Croats. They speak South Slavic language.


Look what I have found:


It is said that the Ottomans brought with them nomadic Vlachs (Morlacchi or Wallachs, etc.) to settle land depopulated by either the plague or those who had fled or died during the Ottoman invasion. The majority of these Vlachs of the Orthodox faith were mostly assimilated into Croatian civilization by the 18th century, between Istria and Dubrovnik, and throughout the Lika, Dalmatia and other parts of Croatia. Often these Orthodox settlers along the Adriatic coast had been deliberately forced to inland Croatia by Venice and its Allies, during and after the Ottoman retreat (for example, the Uskoks of Senj).



If these Vlachs had been of Serbian ancestry as claimed, why is it that the land where they originated from was known as 'Turkish Croatia'? In addition, if these migrating Vlachs had been exclusively of mixed Serbian ancestry as claimed by their propagandists it is unlikely that they would have been at the centre of the enlightenment debate.



After all, the Vlachs were the virtuous so-called 'noble savages' romanticized by Rousseau. In conflict with Rousseau, Voltaire cited the 'Morlaque' of Dalmatia as an example of people who had a lowly place in the development of enlightened civilization.

.....

In one of many sources which allude to the true ethnicity of the original Orthodox in Croatia, Larry Wolff (in Venice and the Slavs) writes that "The heterogeneous Orthodox society of Zadar included Montenegrin officers and Sarajevo merchants ... and (others) from Corfu and Crete. The Venetians were concerned to reduce foreign influence on Orthodox Dalmatians, including the Morlacchi".



The presence of Vlachs is established in history, philosophy, novels, decrees or statutes, and place names on genuine original maps.



On October 5, 1630 Statuta Valachorum ('Law of the Vlachs') under Hapsburg King Ferdinand II acknowledged that the Vlachs would not be subject to the Croatian leadership but would instead be soldiers in the military cordon subject to the King; and in 17th century Venice a statute re Morlacchi.



Place names such as Latinski Islam or Grcki Islam or the Vlasko More, as well the existence of former Greek or Eastern rite churches in Croatia testify to the existence and identity of the Vlachs and other Orthodox people in Croatia.



The Vlachs spoke an old vulgar Latin language and used the Latin script and this is no doubt why only five per cent of Misha Glenny's so-called-Krajina Serbs could read the Cyrillic script, something Glenny incorrectly attributed to an alleged Croatian government policy instead of to their non-Serbian ancestry.
......

Likewise in Sarajevo, or Zadar or Lika, the churches now called Serbian Orthodox were originally known as Greek Orthodox churches which had been built or converted to accommodate the Eastern Orthodox faith to the various settlers therein.

The church of St. Ilijah in Zadar (St. Elias) once served the Greek Orthodox community there and not the Serbs.
...

St. Ilijah only came under the Serbian Dalmatian Eparchy at the end of the 19th century. According to the above-mentioned author Wolff, Obradovic, a visiting Serbian-born pioneer of Serbian nationalism in Croatia, was preaching in Zadar in 1771 to the 'Schismatic' Orthodox community, but was denied settlement in Skradin because Venetian authorities did not want a 'foreign' influence on the Orthodox Dalmatians and Morlacchi.


If the Orthodox settlements there had been Serbian then how would the situation arise that a visiting Serbian priest would be called a 'foreigner' by the Venetian authorities? If the so-called slavicized Orthodox were under 'foreign' threat from a visiting Serb, it is not likely that they were at that point in time of mixed Serbian origin.
.........

According to the book about the life of Pavlinovic, a 19th century Croatian priest, on the topic of the Orthodox faith in Croatia, the Orthodox peoples of Croatia were not Serbian.



According to Pavlinovic, the Orthodox in Croatia were members of the old Croatian Greek Orthodox church from the early middle ages, for example, Vlachs or Romanians, Greeks, and other merchants who had assimilated into Croatian society under the Habsburg dynasty.
........

To sum up, the Orthodox Minorities in Croatia include:

- descendants of original inhabitants of Pannonia or Dalmatia, the first Croatian settlers,

- descendants of Croatian Catholics who willingly or forcibly were converted to Orthodoxy,

- descendants of Orthodox Vlahs (introduced by Ottomans into Croatia)

- descendants of Orthodox Straddiotti (merchants originating from Turkish occupied Greece under Venetian era),

-other descendants of Czech, Greek, Russian, Romanian, Macedonian, Ukrainian or other Eastern European immigrants; and amongst this latter group Serbs are only one ethnic group who came.


http://newgeneration.croatianherald.com/History/tabid/99/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/971/Croatian-History.aspx - http://newgeneration.croatianherald.com/History/tabid/99/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/971/Croatian-History.aspx

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Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 20:19

It is said that the Ottomans brought with them nomadic Vlachs (Morlacchi or Wallachs, etc.) to settle land depopulated by either the plague or those who had fled or died during the Ottoman invasion. The majority of these Vlachs of the Orthodox faith were mostly assimilated into Croatian civilization by the 18th century, between Istria and Dubrovnik, and throughout the Lika, Dalmatia and other parts of Croatia. Often these Orthodox settlers along the Adriatic coast had been deliberately forced to inland Croatia by Venice and its Allies, during and after the Ottoman retreat (for example, the Uskoks of Senj).

What have I been telling you all this time? These Wallachs assimilated with the Slavs- mixed with them and became what we know today as Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks. Same thing happened in Bosnia and Herzegovina, throughout Serbia, Montenegro etc.
If you call an average Serbian, Croatian or Bosniak with Wallachian last name (or origin)- a Romanian- he would probably take it as a personal insult.

Since most of the old Wallachs were Orthodox they usually mixed with Serbs forming what we now today as Serbian nation.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 20:27
Quote If you call an average Serbian, Croatian or Bosniak with Wallachian last name (or origin)- a Romanian- he would probably take it as a personal insult.


It doesn't matter the personal feelings.

We want to establish the historical background.


Quote
Since most of the old Wallachs were Orthodox they usually mixed with Serbs forming what we now today as Serbian nation.



Haven't you read in the article that the Serbs in Croatia were one of the small groups of Orthodox people, the main being the Vlachs and Greeks?

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Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 20:34
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

Quote If you call an average Serbian, Croatian or Bosniak with Wallachian last name (or origin)- a Romanian- he would probably take it as a personal insult.


It doesn't matter the personal feelings.

We want to establish the historical background.


It doesn't matter what personal feeling are like? That's the whole point of the National belonging- a personal feeling.

The Historical background- Tesla said he was a Serb. He spoke Serbian language, baptized in Serbian Orthodox Church, was a part of Serbian culture.
If there were Wallachs in Lika before the 18th century...well, there was no Wallachs in the 19th century. They were all Serbs (or Croats) by then.

P.S. Modern Serbs are partly Wallachs, but they are not Romanians. They form a single Serbian nation. Do you understand that?
I have Wallach roots, and I also have German, Hungarian, Greek, Illyrian, an probably some Turkish blood too. But the fact remains, I'm Serb, I feel like a Serb, and I speak Serbian as my native language.
As a nation Serbs trace their roots back to some Iranian tribe, but that doesn't changes the fact that they are Slavs.



Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 20:59
Originally posted by Larus Larus wrote:


It is said that the Ottomans brought with them nomadic Vlachs (Morlacchi or Wallachs, etc.) to settle land depopulated by either the plague or those who had fled or died during the Ottoman invasion. The majority of these Vlachs of the Orthodox faith were mostly assimilated into Croatian civilization by the 18th century, between Istria and Dubrovnik, and throughout the Lika, Dalmatia and other parts of Croatia. Often these Orthodox settlers along the Adriatic coast had been deliberately forced to inland Croatia by Venice and its Allies, during and after the Ottoman retreat (for example, the Uskoks of Senj).

What have I been telling you all this time? These Wallachs assimilated with the Slavs- mixed with them and became what we know today as Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks. Same thing happened in Bosnia and Herzegovina, throughout Serbia, Montenegro etc.
If you call an average Serbian, Croatian or Bosniak with Wallachian last name (or origin)- a Romanian- he would probably take it as a personal insult.

Since most of the old Wallachs were Orthodox they usually mixed with Serbs forming what we now today as Serbian nation.


It is useless, his entire argument proposes some grandoise "Romanian" claim, it is as futile as our own internal sub-categorical claims (everyone is this or that former Yu natioality). Considering the fact that no one yet actually disagreed that he may or may not have had some potential Vlach ancestry he still is trying to drive a point home that defies logic and historiagraphy.

Tesla may have had blood that is Vlach, I am unaware of the Croatian Krajina siutation, but in the Bosnian Krajina many Vlachs were moved from Serbia, and other further Southern Balkan regions as a sort of landed militia. However, that does not denote him fully Vlach, or any other thing. Mixing was very common place. And as you have pointed out these population eventually became todays Bosnains Croatians Serbs etc...




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Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 21:05
Originally posted by Larus Larus wrote:

Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

Quote If you call an average Serbian, Croatian or Bosniak with Wallachian last name (or origin)- a Romanian- he would probably take it as a personal insult.


It doesn't matter the personal feelings.

We want to establish the historical background.


It doesn't matter what personal feeling are like? That's the whole point of the National belonging- a personal feeling.

The Historical background- Tesla said he was a Serb. He spoke Serbian language, baptized in Serbian Orthodox Church, was a part of Serbian culture.
If there were Wallachs in Lika before the 18th century...well, there was no Wallachs in the 19th century. They were all Serbs (or Croats) by then.

P.S. Modern Serbs are partly Wallachs, but they are not Romanians. They form a single Serbian nation. Do you understand that?
I have Wallach roots, and I also have German, Hungarian, Greek, Illyrian, an probably some Turkish blood too. But the fact remains, I'm Serb, I feel like a Serb, and I speak Serbian as my native language.
As a nation Serbs trace their roots back to some Iranian tribe, but that doesn't changes the fact that they are Slavs.



Nooooo haven't you heard National  belonging is a genetic contsruction, not a social or cultural construction. How dare you think logically. LOL

Point is he was a Serb raised, and thought of himself belonging, and vieving the world through a Serbian cultural and ethnic context. He saw himself a Serb, and belonging to his Croatian homeland.


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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 21:05
Quote P.S. Modern Serbs are partly Wallachs, but they are not Romanians. They form a single Serbian nation. Do you understand that?
I have Wallach roots, and I also have German, Hungarian, Greek, Illyrian, an probably some Turkish blood too. But the fact remains, I'm Serb, I feel like a Serb, and I speak Serbian as my native language.
As a nation Serbs trace their roots back to some Iranian tribe, but that doesn't changes the fact that they are Slavs.

The discussion started from Nicola Tesla was an ethnic Serb who lived in Croatia. What are the roots for his last name, it doesnt sound typically Serbian. I always asumed he was Russian.

If you don't want, you don't participate. I would have respect for your feelings if the Serbs would have respect for the feelings of others, but I know that the Vlachs from Timoc Valley, which are very numerous (without being influenced by Romania Romanians in the last 100 years) were recognized as ethnic minority only in 2007 and obtained the right to built a church with Romanian language services only in 2005, but this church is treatened to be demolished:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanians_of_Serbia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanians_of_Serbia

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Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 21:13
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Larus Larus wrote:


It is said that the Ottomans brought with them nomadic Vlachs (Morlacchi or Wallachs, etc.) to settle land depopulated by either the plague or those who had fled or died during the Ottoman invasion. The majority of these Vlachs of the Orthodox faith were mostly assimilated into Croatian civilization by the 18th century, between Istria and Dubrovnik, and throughout the Lika, Dalmatia and other parts of Croatia. Often these Orthodox settlers along the Adriatic coast had been deliberately forced to inland Croatia by Venice and its Allies, during and after the Ottoman retreat (for example, the Uskoks of Senj).

What have I been telling you all this time? These Wallachs assimilated with the Slavs- mixed with them and became what we know today as Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks. Same thing happened in Bosnia and Herzegovina, throughout Serbia, Montenegro etc.
If you call an average Serbian, Croatian or Bosniak with Wallachian last name (or origin)- a Romanian- he would probably take it as a personal insult.

Since most of the old Wallachs were Orthodox they usually mixed with Serbs forming what we now today as Serbian nation.


It is useless, his entire argument proposes some grandoise "Romanian" claim, it is as futile as our own internal sub-categorical claims (everyone is this or that former Yu natioality). Considering the fact that no one yet actually disagreed that he may or may not have had some potential Vlach ancestry he still is trying to drive a point home that defies logic and historiagraphy.

Tesla may have had blood that is Vlach, I am unaware of the Croatian Krajina siutation, but in the Bosnian Krajina many Vlachs were moved from Serbia, and other further Southern Balkan regions as a sort of landed militia. However, that does not denote him fully Vlach, or any other thing. Mixing was very common place. And as you have pointed out these population eventually became todays Bosnains Croatians Serbs etc...




You are right, it is useless. But on the other hand I'm glad I had this conversation, because now I see we are not the only ones having problems with these issues (which are usually attributed by the complex of inferiority). Not long ago I thought only EX Yugoslavia has this problem.  Misery loves company...




Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 21:24
Quote It is useless, his entire argument proposes some grandoise "Romanian" claim, it is as futile as our own internal sub-categorical claims (everyone is this or that former Yu natioality). Considering the fact that no one yet actually disagreed that he may or may not have had some potential Vlach ancestry he still is trying to drive a point home that defies logic and historiagraphy.

Tesla may have had blood that is Vlach, I am unaware of the Croatian Krajina siutation, but in the Bosnian Krajina many Vlachs were moved from Serbia, and other further Southern Balkan regions as a sort of landed militia. However, that does not denote him fully Vlach, or any other thing. Mixing was very common place. And as you have pointed out these population eventually became todays Bosnains Croatians Serbs etc...


I don't consider all the Romance speaking groups from Balkans a single nation, as you say. I feel related to them and that's all.


I just presented the facts I found.

The discussion was not about Tesla's feelings but about his ancestors.

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Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 21:28

 Look man, I don't even know my full background- maybe my great-great grandmother had an affair with/ or was raped by a Turkish soldier, hence my great grandfather was born. It's useless to discuss these matters, especially here in the Balkans.


Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 15:01
Originally posted by Larus Larus wrote:


It's useless to discuss these matters, especially here in the Balkans.
 
I understandBig%20smile,
Menumorut have you ever been to Smiljan?(It's very far away from your claims), it's more probably he was a turk...
and Tesla sounds slavic to me


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 16:46
If you understand is useless to discuss, than why you continuate to discuss?



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Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 17:17
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

If you understand is useless to discuss, than why you continuate to discuss?

 
It's nice to discuss on usless discussions thats why we continue discussing on usless dicussions


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 17:32
We who?

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Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 17:35
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

We who?
 
 
Every one...the question was from where is the NAME Tesla...not from where Tesla comes from


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 17:44
Originally posted by Illirac Illirac wrote:


Every one...the question was from where is the NAME Tesla...not from where Tesla comes from



So, after you it was a linguistic problem.


I don't know the Serbian language, Tesla too sound non-Serbian for me.

How is declined this word in Serbian?

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Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 17:49
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

Originally posted by Illirac Illirac wrote:


Every one...the question was from where is the NAME Tesla...not from where Tesla comes from



So, after you it was a linguistic problem.


I don't know the Serbian language, Tesla too sound non-Serbian for me.

How is declined this word in Serbian?
 
I know croatian which is very similar to serbian but not the same...surenames can not be declined in croatian as far as I know...


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 19:20
Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin have a same derivative language, with regional, and sub-regional differences. The proper is Yugoslavian as a term for all, but I would call all four rather dialects of that, but not derivative of each other.

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Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 19:29
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin have a same derivative language, with regional, and sub-regional differences. The proper is Yugoslavian as a term for all, but I would call all four rather dialects of that, but not derivative of each other.
 
yes...but not the same...belive me, I know many serbians, bosnian and montenegrian and it's not the same...croatian alone has 3 different dialects(kajkavski,čakavski and tokavski) which are quite different


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 19:43
I know all of that, I am from Bosnia, and even there there are different dialects, Krajina is different from Northern, or Eastern Bosnia, or from Hercegovina. Same for Serbia. Just saying they are all Yugoslav languages coming from a single stem, but have varied local dialects, and a obvious blanket dialect. They are mutually intelligible.


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Posted By: Illirac
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 19:52
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

I know all of that, I am from Bosnia, and even there there are different dialects, Krajina is different from Northern, or Eastern Bosnia, or from Hercegovina. Same for Serbia. Just saying they are all Yugoslav languages coming from a single stem, but have varied local dialects, and a obvious blanket dialect. They are mutually intelligible.
 
yes of course...thats perheps the reson of why Yugoslavia was formed


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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.


Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 19:45
Originally posted by think think wrote:

Nicola Tesla was an ethnic Serb who lived in Croatia. What are the roots for his last name, it doesnt sound typically Serbian. I always asumed he was Russian.




The origin of Tesla's last name is known and there is no debate upon it. Tesla explains it himself in his autobiography. His (paternal, from mother's it's Mandic) family's last name was Draganic, they're migrants that fled from the Ottoman Turks from the Old Vlach region in modern-day Montenegro, just below the river of Tara. Nikola's recent ancestor asserted his family name Tesla from the tool very akin to the Axe, a thing not unusual for many Serb refugees in those times. Tesla in Serbo-Croat means Adze, a rough tool for woodcutting as Nikola Tesla comes from a woodcutter's family (by not far descent). As such, "Tesla" became a sort-of regional surname, which was typical for clanmen back then - in Lika itself, in the Habsburg Military Frontier to which the Draganics moved.


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 20:02
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

Originally posted by Illirac Illirac wrote:


Every one...the question was from where is the NAME Tesla...not from where Tesla comes from



So, after you it was a linguistic problem.


I don't know the Serbian language, Tesla too sound non-Serbian for me.

How is declined this word in Serbian?


Tesla

Tesle

Tesli

Tesle

Tesla

Teslom

Tesli

It comes from the word "Adze", which in Serbo-Croat means "Adze".


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 20:05
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin have a same derivative language, with regional, and sub-regional differences. The proper is Yugoslavian as a term for all, but I would call all four rather dialects of that, but not derivative of each other.


You have made a terrible mistake. Angry

It's actually Bosnian-Bunyev-Croatian-Montenegrin-Serbian-Yugoslavian-Zlatibor


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 20:20
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:



Tesla
Tesle
Tesli
Tesle
Tesla
Teslom
Tesli

It comes from the word "Adze", which in Serbo-Croat means "Adze".



Thanks. In Romanian tesla means the same thing.

But searching in a dictionary I have found this:


English language        Serbian language
adze                           bradva


So, it seems is not the main word used for that tool, as is in Romanian.

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Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 06:23
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:


Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin have a same derivative language, with regional, and sub-regional differences. The proper is Yugoslavian as a term for all, but I would call all four rather dialects of that, but not derivative of each other.
You have made a terrible mistake. AngryIt's actually Bosnian-Bunyev-Croatian-Montenegrin-Serbian-Yugoslavian-Zlatibor


What's Bunyev, and Zlatibor



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Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 11:38
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:


Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin have a same derivative language, with regional, and sub-regional differences. The proper is Yugoslavian as a term for all, but I would call all four rather dialects of that, but not derivative of each other.
You have made a terrible mistake. AngryIt's actually Bosnian-Bunyev-Croatian-Montenegrin-Serbian-Yugoslavian-Zlatibor


What's Bunyev, and Zlatibor



Bunyev is the language of the Bynyevatz tiny Catholic people that populates Vojvodina, originally from Bosnia.

Zlatibor is the term used for the language spoken around the mountain of Zlatibor in western and southwestern Serbia (in Sandzak). Because no one really is a determined speaker though, it's more often referred as "Uzice Speech" (Uzice the largest city).


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: Larus
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 16:14
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:


Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin have a same derivative language, with regional, and sub-regional differences. The proper is Yugoslavian as a term for all, but I would call all four rather dialects of that, but not derivative of each other.
You have made a terrible mistake. AngryIt's actually Bosnian-Bunyev-Croatian-Montenegrin-Serbian-Yugoslavian-Zlatibor


What's Bunyev, and Zlatibor



Bunyev is the language of the Bynyevatz tiny Catholic people that populates Vojvodina, originally from Bosnia.

Zlatibor is the term used for the language spoken around the mountain of Zlatibor in western and southwestern Serbia (in Sandzak). Because no one really is a determined speaker though, it's more often referred as "Uzice Speech" (Uzice the largest city).


This is all too confusing for me... from now on my native language is Shatrovacki.


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 19:05
Never knew about those two dialects



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Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 12:19
Oh, there is one more - I forgot: "Ours language" (natively: Nasinski jezik). It's spoken by The Hillmen (nativel: Goranci) people in Serbia (from The Hills, "Gora", at the south of Kosovo), a Moslem people of Serbian origins, although the greater part of them call it Serbian language.

There, I think I've covered all (except that no one calls it "Yugoslavian" anymore, so slash that). :)


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 12:20
Originally posted by Larus Larus wrote:

Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:


Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin have a same derivative language, with regional, and sub-regional differences. The proper is Yugoslavian as a term for all, but I would call all four rather dialects of that, but not derivative of each other.
You have made a terrible mistake. AngryIt's actually Bosnian-Bunyev-Croatian-Montenegrin-Serbian-Yugoslavian-Zlatibor


What's Bunyev, and Zlatibor



Bunyev is the language of the Bynyevatz tiny Catholic people that populates Vojvodina, originally from Bosnia.

Zlatibor is the term used for the language spoken around the mountain of Zlatibor in western and southwestern Serbia (in Sandzak). Because no one really is a determined speaker though, it's more often referred as "Uzice Speech" (Uzice the largest city).


This is all too confusing for me... from now on my native language is Shatrovacki.


Unlike most standard Serbian in Serbia, the Zlatiborian uses Iyekavian speech.


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 21-Nov-2007 at 03:58
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Oh, there is one more - I forgot: "Ours language" (natively: Nasinski jezik). It's spoken by The Hillmen (nativel: Goranci) people in Serbia (from The Hills, "Gora", at the south of Kosovo), a Moslem people of Serbian origins, although the greater part of them call it Serbian language.

There, I think I've covered all (except that no one calls it "Yugoslavian" anymore, so slash that). :)


I do




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Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 21-Nov-2007 at 10:19
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Oh, there is one more - I forgot: "Ours language" (natively: Nasinski jezik). It's spoken by The Hillmen (nativel: Goranci) people in Serbia (from The Hills, "Gora", at the south of Kosovo), a Moslem people of Serbian origins, although the greater part of them call it Serbian language.

There, I think I've covered all (except that no one calls it "Yugoslavian" anymore, so slash that). :)


I do




...you do what?


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 21-Nov-2007 at 10:21
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Oh, there is one more - I forgot: "Ours language" (natively: Nasinski jezik). It's spoken by The Hillmen (nativel: Goranci) people in Serbia (from The Hills, "Gora", at the south of Kosovo), a Moslem people of Serbian origins, although the greater part of them call it Serbian language.

There, I think I've covered all (except that no one calls it "Yugoslavian" anymore, so slash that). :)


I do




Well yeah, so do I, but that's just minority and colloquially - you do recognize Bosnian, don't you? These people mostly call their language that way (Croatian, Serbian, Zlatibor, Montenegrin, Bunyev, Zlatibor, Ours). Same manner we could say a lot call it "Serbo-Croatian", and often me too, but it's in the same position.


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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."


Posted By: filimon
Date Posted: 22-May-2009 at 05:27

In Transylvania and Banat, everyone has first, last and nick name.  If I were Nicolae Draghici Teslaru coming from Croatia to the US, I would have to choose an Americanized name like Nicola Tesla and still be 100% Romanian.  Draghici would be tough to pronounce in New York.  “Tesla” sounds vocal and it is close enough to Teslaru – the Romanian meaning for “carpenter”.  Nickname “Teslaru” means “carpenter” which was the profession of Nicolae’s grandfather.  Although hard to accept by some, The Romanian Language was spread to a much larger territory that the country "Romania" we know today.  Language survived in high-altitude places all the way to Italy and back to its historic sites of Macedonia.  Despite occupational oppressions, The Romanian Language along with its carriers has not changed in 4,000 years.  Nicola Tesla was just one of us: a Romanian who survived and opened doors to the future of Earthlings.   Croatia, Serbia, Yugoslavia, US, Romania, Hungary, all can we adopt Nicola as our genius brother. 



Posted By: filimon
Date Posted: 22-May-2009 at 05:27

In Transylvania and Banat, everyone has first, last and nick name.  If I were Nicolae Draghici Teslaru coming from Croatia to the US, I would have to choose an Americanized name like Nicola Tesla and still be 100% Romanian.  Draghici would be tough to pronounce in New York.  “Tesla” sounds vocal and it is close enough to Teslaru – the Romanian meaning for “carpenter”.  Nickname “Teslaru” means “carpenter” which was the profession of Nicolae’s grandfather.  Although hard to accept by some, The Romanian Language was spread to a much larger territory that the country "Romania" we know today.  Language survived in high-altitude places all the way to Italy and back to its historic sites of Macedonia.  Despite occupational oppressions, The Romanian Language along with its carriers has not changed in 4,000 years.  Nicola Tesla was just one of us: a Romanian who survived and opened doors to the future of Earthlings.   Croatia, Serbia, Yugoslavia, US, Romania, all can we adopt Nicola as our genius brother.




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