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Muslim women

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Topic: Muslim women
Posted By: Master_Blaster
Subject: Muslim women
Date Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 22:25
Mash'allah, they are absolutely beautiful. (awaits a tongue-lashing from some overly religious Islamist).
 
No one treats their men better, no one raises their kids better, and no one has a firmer committment to their family than a Muslim women. No, they are not "caged virgins," or "oppressed," or any of that other nonsense the feminists propogate! They are educated, intelligent, and loyal.
 
Shame, shame, shame! On all the Muslim men (especially Arabs) who chase after the Swedish blondes! Simply put, Muslim women are the best. Embarrassed
 
 



Replies:
Posted By: cattus
Date Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 22:39
Quote No one treats their men better, no one raises their kids better, and no one has a firmer committment to their family than a Muslim women.


I would go with Japanese women on this one, certainly on the first part.


Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 07:09
Master Blaster for the first time i have to agree with you.


Posted By: Sparten
Date Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 11:32

Maziar, you have been in Germany tooooooooo long.

Ditto Master Blaster.

 



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The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".


Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 12:50
What do you exactly meanQuestion


Posted By: morticia
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 15:31
Originally posted by Master_Blaster Master_Blaster wrote:

No one treats their men better, no one raises their kids better, and no one has a firmer committment to their family than a Muslim women. No, they are not "caged virgins," or "oppressed," or any of that other nonsense the feminists propogate! They are educated, intelligent, and loyal... Simply put, Muslim women are the best.



    
Yes! and, lucky for you, they're probably easier to CONTROL than a western woman! Hopefully, they, too, shall someday learn that they can be all that (what you've written above) plus also have EQUALITY, FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE! Enjoy them while they last!

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"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst


Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 18:17
LOL yea, their husbands will flee to the west, if they are independent some dayLOL


Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2006 at 10:56
I agree with you, Master_Blaster, there are many more blondes out there to chase than just the Swedish ones. May the Arabs realise this, inshallah. Tongue

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Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.


Posted By: cahaya
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 08:47

Originally posted by Morty Morty wrote:

Yes! and, lucky for you, they're probably easier to CONTROL than a western woman! Hopefully, they, too, shall someday learn that they can be all that (what you've written above) plus also have EQUALITY, FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE! Enjoy them while they last!
 
oh that is a very wrong perception here... It's not true... I am a muslim woman.. We have equality, freedom and independence.. I have my own car.. my own apartment.. and i'm staying alone.. lotsa muslim women in Malaysia live alone.. look after themselves before marriage.. even my sister who is married.. she has everything a woman can have in her life.. and she's happily married... and still devoted to her husband, her religion, as well as a good mother ... and tomorrow... i'm going bck to my hometown.. driving ALONE!!! after 8.00pm... anyone wanna join me? lol... (hope tht nothing 'funny' chasing me on highway in middle of the night! Wacko)


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 09:32
Originally posted by cahaya cahaya wrote:

 
driving ALONE!!!
 
 
You dont mean to tell us that muslim women can driveShocked. Even the independent, free and equal women of europe dont know how to drive.LOL


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"We didnt land on Israel, Israel landed on us!!"--Palestinian X
http://www.antiwar.com - antiwar.com
http://www.crimesofwar.org - crimesofwar.org


Posted By: TheDiplomat
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 09:43

You've opened my eyes! For real!

ThanksThumbs Up


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ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!



Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 13:56
Originally posted by cahaya cahaya wrote:

 

oh that is a very wrong perception here... It's not true... I am a muslim woman.. We have equality, freedom and independence.. I have my own car.. my own apartment.. and i'm staying alone.. lotsa muslim women in Malaysia live alone.. look after themselves before marriage.. even my sister who is married.. she has everything a woman can have in her life.. and she's happily married... and still devoted to her husband, her religion, as well as a good mother ... and tomorrow... i'm going bck to my hometown.. driving ALONE!!! after 8.00pm... anyone wanna join me? lol... (hope tht nothing 'funny' chasing me on highway in middle of the night! Wacko)

 
 
And if you go for a stroll around Kota Baru without a headscarf, the police will stop you.... Muslim men, Chinese and Indian girls won't get stopped, only you.
 


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Light blue touch paper and stand well back

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Posted By: Master_Blaster
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 16:13
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

And if you go for a stroll around Kota Baru without a headscarf, the police will stop you.... Muslim men, Chinese and Indian girls won't get stopped, only you. 
 
If that type of behavior was as common in Muslim societies as the Western media portrays it to be - then it wouldn't be NEWS, no would it?? News is that which is often unordinary.


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 16:49
Originally posted by cahaya cahaya wrote:

Originally posted by Morty Morty wrote:

Yes! and, lucky for you, they're probably easier to CONTROL than a western woman! Hopefully, they, too, shall someday learn that they can be all that (what you've written above) plus also have EQUALITY, FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE! Enjoy them while they last!
oh that is a very wrong perception here... It's not true... I am a muslim woman.. We have equality, freedom and independence.. I have my own car.. my own apartment.. and i'm staying alone.. lotsa muslim women in Malaysia live alone.. look after themselves before marriage.. even my sister who is married.. she has everything a woman can have in her life.. and she's happily married... and still devoted to her husband, her religion, as well as a good mother ... and tomorrow... i'm going bck to my hometown.. driving ALONE!!! after 8.00pm... anyone wanna join me? lol... (hope tht nothing 'funny' chasing me on highway in middle of the night! Wacko)
That is great to hear Mahaya Smile, but I kinda knew the conditions for women in Malaysia wasnt as confined as in many other places.
Some years ago, I hosted a delegation from various educational institutions in Malaysia getting inspiration from our education system, and a couple of the visitors were women. They were here for 14 days, so we got to talk alot, and they still occasionally mail me with questions.
 
 
 


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Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 16:56

Master Blaster - is there any specific reason why you posted this topic in The Tavern? - dont you want us to take it seriously?

 

 

 


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Posted By: Master_Blaster
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 17:20
I did not post it in this section - it was "moved" by a moderator. I don't know as to why. :*(


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 19:56
hear hear Master Blaster! Thats so true!
Originally posted by Morticia Morticia wrote:


Yes! and, lucky for you, they're probably easier to CONTROL than a western woman!

Poor morticia, you have no idea.
The Imam in my town, who belongs to the strictist most conservative arab family in the city, took his wifes name when he married.
She forced him to take her name.

Western women have nothing on bossness and independence compared to a muslim women. (even a western muslim woman)
Quote
You dont mean to tell us that muslim women can driveShocked. Even the independent, free and equal women of europe dont know how to drive.LOL

LOLLOLLOL
LOL

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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 21:38
Oh - this new knowledge of the total control by Muslim women explains the true meaning of the anti-islam TV-documentary I saw yesterday.
 
The TV-team was visiting the construction-site of a new Mosque, and the journalist explained about the box that was built into the wall high above the floor.
The box had 5 foot walls towards the bigger hall in the mosque and small windows on top of that wall. Normal sized people could barely see out those windows.
He told that the women was not to stand or pray with the men in the mosque, and had to stay in the box during the entire service.
 
But with the new knowledge of free controlling women provided by you guys, I can see this is nothing but anti-islamic propaganda.
 
The box is not a box - but of course a balcony just like the royal families have in theater's and opera's.
Geeees - the nerve that journalist had - to tell lies like that - there should be a law against that. Wink
 
btw - it was in Canada, and a Canadian TV-broadcast.
 
 


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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 22:18
He's not far wrong Northman. Most women including Muslim women are more or less like what he says.
 
You might have instances of Muslim women being poorly treated, there's also some like the following.. the answer in this case is probably the majority is somewhere in between.
 
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=86153&d=24&m=8&y=2006 - http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=86153&d=24&m=8&y=2006  
 
 
 


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Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 03:23
Quote
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=86153&d=24&m=8&y=2006 - http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=86153&d=24&m=8&y=2006

The Imam's wife is probably quite like one of these women.
Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

The TV-team was visiting the construction-site of a new Mosque, and the journalist explained about the box that was built into the wall high above the floor.
The box had 5 foot walls towards the bigger hall in the mosque and small windows on top of that wall. Normal sized people could barely see out those windows.
He told that the women was not to stand or pray with the men in the mosque, and had to stay in the box during the entire service.

So? The same applies vice versa.




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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor


Posted By: Sparten
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 03:35

I wish I could control my girl. Once. Nothing untoward, but if she is supposed to be submissive howcome I had to drive (which i hate) up to Taxila so we could see the a exhibation about "Greeks in Pakistan".

 
Yet according to some people, they are supposed to be "easy to control".
 


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The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".


Posted By: Sparten
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 03:35
And women should not be allowed to drive; period.
 
 
 
Wink


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The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".


Posted By: Red_Lord
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 06:13
Originally posted by morticia morticia wrote:

Originally posted by Master_Blaster Master_Blaster wrote:

No one treats their men better, no one raises their kids better, and no one has a firmer committment to their family than a Muslim women. No, they are not "caged virgins," or "oppressed," or any of that other nonsense the feminists propogate! They are educated, intelligent, and loyal... Simply put, Muslim women are the best.



    
Yes! and, lucky for you, they're probably easier to CONTROL than a western woman! Hopefully, they, too, shall someday learn that they can be all that (what you've written above) plus also have EQUALITY, FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE! Enjoy them while they last!
 
LOLClapLOLClapLOLClap


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"The slave is fighting for freedom,free is fighting for perfectness"
Yane Sandanski


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 06:21
Tele Induz and Omar...
 
Please read my post again.
I know the journalist was right - he was interviewing both males and females from the congregation of the new Mosque - and the box IS to isolate the women. Most of the men didnt want them in the Mosque at all.
In other Mosques there is a curtain in the back for the women to stand behind - separated, isolated - and out of sight for the men, and as Omar said - visa versa.
 
Obviouly my attempt to do a satiric comment on the issue failed.
 
Centuries ago, it was common that men AND women was together, worshipping and praying in the Mosques. Some women even lectured from the pulpit (please replace with correct term) in past times.
As far as I'm told and know, nothing in the Qu'ran prohibits women to take part in the religious activities in a Mosque, or am I wrong here?
Why has this changed over the years?
 
As in much as I do want to respect and understand other beliefs, I also need to understand what parts of the culture is religion and what is merely male dominated, female opressing traditions.
 
PS...
In regards to women and cars - it should be a human right to own at least one of each! Wink
 


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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 06:58
Could be right Northman for that Mosque (satirical or whatever), most Mosques usually have a room for women and men I think. Anyway, when I used to go to the gym, they have some "women's only" hours, some of them were at peak time at this one gym I used to frequent, which was probably worse than all this - it was the part of the gym with the equipment women never used to use too, that was kind of stupid..needless to say I left that gym pretty soon (it was run by a woman mind you).
 
If a woman wants to go to the Mosque I dont see what's stopping her..just go to a new Mosque, like I went to a new gym. Choosing a religious sect that forbids you from going to a Mosque to pray is sort of like choosing a gym with "women's only" hours. Again, I think women can pray in most Mosques.


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Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 07:47
Ok, your right again Northman.

The issue with men & women praying together is that when you pray in congregation you are "feet to feet, shoulder to shoulder" with the people next to you. People think (quite rightly) that if members of the opposite sex are that close, they will not be concentration on there prayers.
To seperate sections for men & women praying is in my opinion necessary, and I'm certain its Hadis too, but it isn't Quran.

Where these positions are is a completely different question. To the left, right, above, below, behind (though probably not in front - its not good to be looking at a woman's backside when praying) is arbitary.

Line of sight is mainly a ME cultural thing, actually Hamza Yusuf (an american scholar) once gave a speech I heard that made a good case about it not being an Arab thing during the prophets time, but something that has been picked up from other middle-eastern cultures.

Quote I also need to understand what parts of the culture is religion and what is merely male dominated, female opressing traditions.

In my experience, its usually the women who are the instigators and protaganists of segregation.  I think the whole male dominated thing is a myth. People are just assuming the wrong cause to the visible effects.

Whether women go to the Mosque or not is something that varies hugely by culture. Religously I think they have just as much obligation to do so as men.


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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor


Posted By: TheDiplomat
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 10:30
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Ok, your right again Northman.

The issue with men & women praying together is that when you pray in congregation you are "feet to feet, shoulder to shoulder" with the people next to you. People think (quite rightly) that if members of the opposite sex are that close, they will not be concentration on there prayers.
To seperate sections for men & women praying is in my opinion necessary, and I'm certain its Hadis too, but it isn't Quran.

 
Exactly.
 
in the mosques people pray feet to feet ,shoulder to shoulder and given the fact that sexual feelings are one basic instict and springs to mind evry day for many times,it is better to spearte man and women in the house of Allah so that everyone can concantrate on praying better and as a result unite their souls with Allah


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ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!



Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 10:39
I agree that the close proximity between males and females will stir passions from within. I still don't like the idea of segregated rooms or barriers in most mosques though.

I wouldn't go so far as saying that women are 'instigators' of segregation. Makes me want to barf. Imams tend to be men. The boards of directors tend to be made up of men. The women are regulated to part of the room behind a barrier and hardly get to preach on any given Friday. No. I don't think women set up normative behavior themselves. I think the macho mentality is more the culprit.
    

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Copyright 2004 Seko


Posted By: morticia
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 13:53
Originally posted by TheDiplomat TheDiplomat wrote:

[QUOTE=Omar al Hashim] Ok, your right again Northman.The issue with men & women praying together is that when you pray in congregation you are "feet to feet, shoulder to shoulder" with the people next to you. People think (quite rightly) that if members of the opposite sex are that close, they will not be concentration on there prayers.To seperate sections for men & women praying is in my opinion necessary, and I'm certain its Hadis too, but it isn't Quran

in the mosques people pray feet to feet ,shoulder to shoulder and given the fact that sexual feelings are one basic instict and springs to mind evry day for many times,it is better to spearte man and women in the house of Allah so that everyone can concantrate on praying better and as a result unite their souls with


Have you gentlemen ever heard of the word CONTROL? Are men unable to control their sexual "urges" upon seeing a female? Does this mean that women can't ride on the same bus as men, women can't go to the same theatre as men, etc...because men can't have close proximity to a female without having premature ejaculation? C'mon guys...I don't buy it! Why not try to exercise 'CONTROL'of those MANLY powerful sexual urges and concentrate on praying instead, eh?      It should make no difference what gender is standing next to you, when it's time to pray, sex should be the last thing on your mind...but, now I see that, obviously, that's not true! I certainly hope that's not the VALID reason why women are separated in a Mosque from the men.
    

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"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst


Posted By: The Hidden Face
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 18:01
 
Location = Turkey
What they do = Composite praying.
 


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 22:15
Originally posted by Seko Seko wrote:

I agree that the close proximity between males and females will stir passions from within. I still don't like the idea of segregated rooms or barriers in most mosques though. 
 
As a side note, Orthodox Jewish services are also segregated by sex.  Though male / female segregation is very rare in Christianity, some churches do practice it.  German Lutheran Churches in Romania were segregated as a social custom prior to WWII.  


Posted By: TheDiplomat
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 12:03
Originally posted by morticia morticia wrote:

Originally posted by TheDiplomat TheDiplomat wrote:

[QUOTE=Omar al Hashim] Ok, your right again Northman.The issue with men & women praying together is that when you pray in congregation you are "feet to feet, shoulder to shoulder" with the people next to you. People think (quite rightly) that if members of the opposite sex are that close, they will not be concentration on there prayers.To seperate sections for men & women praying is in my opinion necessary, and I'm certain its Hadis too, but it isn't Quran

in the mosques people pray feet to feet ,shoulder to shoulder and given the fact that sexual feelings are one basic instict and springs to mind evry day for many times,it is better to spearte man and women in the house of Allah so that everyone can concantrate on praying better and as a result unite their souls with


Have you gentlemen ever heard of the word CONTROL? Are men unable to control their sexual "urges" upon seeing a female? Does this mean that women can't ride on the same bus as men, women can't go to the same theatre as men, etc...because men can't have close proximity to a female without having premature ejaculation? C'mon guys...I don't buy it! Why not try to exercise 'CONTROL'of those MANLY powerful sexual urges and concentrate on praying instead, eh?      It should make no difference what gender is standing next to you, when it's time to pray, sex should be the last thing on your mind...but, now I see that, obviously, that's not true! I certainly hope that's not the VALID reason why women are separated in a Mosque from the men.
    
 
 
1-Take it easy..Nobody here agrgued that men would jump over the woman next to him during the pray. Noone would do that psychically...however we talked about passions within...and MENTALLY!
 
2-Have you ever searched the complexity of mind? a lot of unintedted thoughts spring to one's mind often a day..it is not that this should be the last thing on your mind...You can not decide that;!!!
 
3- what about the devil factor? devil does his best to induce believers  to be away from god and persuade them to commit sins..ex:adultery
 
4- So far I have been to 8 foreign countries(including the U.S) and they all were countries with a christian majority,and I have seen thataltough in some respects women have better lifes there,in some respects muslim women have better lives as well in comprasion to their non-muslim sisters.


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ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!



Posted By: Master_Blaster
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 15:20
This is supposed to be an APPRECIATE MUSLIM WOMEN'S thread! Not some silly debate on which society oppresses their women more!
 
I can't stand how people from NON-MUSLIM backgrounds think they know all there is to know about Islamic cultures and the plight of Muslim women! So, if I as a non-White person, judge America and the West only through the amount of pornography, and sex it puts out - then, is that an accurate portrayal of White women??? Then, how can so many of you non-Muslims view ISOLATED INCIDENTS and think that ALL Muslim women are oppressed?
 
 


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 20:24
Very well said Master.

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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 09:17
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Very well said Master.
 
Very understandable sentiments from MB and you Omar.
MB cannot respond at the moment, thats why I respond to you instead of him.
 
I have no doubt what so ever, that muslim women are equally virtuous, respectable, great housewifes, mothers and family members in general, than women from any other culture or religion - if not more so.
 
I just think MB are missing the point as to why Morty wrote like she did.
Morty is simply siding, as I would, with all women who obviously are less free in behavior, attitude, dresscode or whatever - than the ideal situation.
She/we never postulated this as exclusively a problem related to the muslim world.
Women are oppressed to some extent in most societies all over the world, including the west. Its just more obvious and visual in the muslim world.
 
So yes - lets praise Muslim women - side with all women, and at the same time, agree on working together for the aim, that one day in the future we can say that every women is equal to any man in all aspects.
 
 


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Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 22:34
Oh I understand why morty said it.

Its just the perpetuation of a sterotype created by (in a large part) a misunderstanding of different peoples with a touch of cultural arrogance thrown in, that I'm disputing.

(It may also be counter-productive. If womens rights is associated with westernisation, it'll recieve more opposition than if its not. Which I think we can agree is a bad thing. These movements need to come from within and can't be pushed from outside)


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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 04:26
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Oh I understand why morty said it.

Its just the perpetuation of a sterotype created by (in a large part) a misunderstanding of different peoples with a touch of cultural arrogance thrown in, that I'm disputing.
 
Yes very true indeed - but the arrogance is double edged and most of this thread is partly said in jest, as I read it.

Quote
(It may also be counter-productive. If womens rights is associated with westernisation, it'll recieve more opposition than if its not. Which I think we can agree is a bad thing. These movements need to come from within and can't be pushed from outside)
 
Also true - the perpetuation of the sterotypical "evil west" is blocking for many advancements in Muslim countries. Wink
 
 


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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 07:39
Everybody knows the sterotype of Muslim women. Exceptions always confirm the rule. However its not the Muslim women who are to be blamed. its the muslim men who are immersed in bigotism.

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: morticia
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2006 at 09:47
Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Very well said Master.

Very understandable sentiments from MB and you Omar.
MB cannot respond at the moment, thats why I respond to you instead of him.


I have no doubt what so ever, that muslim women are equally virtuous, respectable, great housewifes, mothers and family members in general, than women from any other culture or religion - if not more so.


I just think MB are missing the point as to why Morty wrote like she did.

Morty is simply siding, as I would,with all women who obviously are less free in behavior, attitude, dresscode or whatever - than the idealsituation.

She/weneverpostulated thisas exclusivelya problem related to the muslim world.

Women are oppressed to some extent in most societies all over the world,including the west. Its just moreobvious and visual in the muslim world.

So yes - lets praiseMuslim women - side with all women, and at the same time, agree on workingtogether for the aim, that one day in the future we can say thatevery women is equal to any man in all aspects


I don't enjoy seeing any women being discriminated against or being considered a second class citizen or kept uneducated....and surely a definite sign of discrimination is when a woman does not have a right to make decisions, to vote, to be a part of the political system, to have freedome of speech, expression, choices, driving, equality to men, etcetera..... I don't care if she is Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, Black, White, Purple or Pink! It's simply not FAIR that women cannot comport themselves the same way as men do, simply because of their gender!

And yet, again, MB and some others seem to make light of this situation as well. Why do you still want to keep women BEHIND you instead of as your equal? Why not let women be who they really are instead of who you want them to be? Is it a "tradition" thing?
    

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"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst


Posted By: cahaya
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2006 at 14:17
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

And if you go for a stroll around Kota Baru without a headscarf, the police will stop you.... Muslim men, Chinese and Indian girls won't get stopped, only you.
 
This is the most nonsense statement.. if u dont knw wht u are talking about dont say anything...  Kota Bharu is in Kelantan... East coast Malaysia.. My mom originally from there.. instead... all my siblings were born in there except me.. I just came bck frm there last mth... my friend is muslim and she 's non hijabi.. nothing happened to her.. wht are u talking Paul?? It's a crap.... There's some muslims women who wear hijab some are not..  this is so ridicolous.. why people make funny story when they knw nothing?


Posted By: morticia
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 16:40
I feel that a woman should wear a hijab if she wants to and not wear one if she does not want to. If she wants to wear a burka, that is her choice as well. As long as it's her decision to wear it or not (whether it's a personal or religious choice). I just think the decision should be made by each individual.


    

-------------
"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst


Posted By: Batu
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 07:37
in Turkey you can wear anything you want in anywhere you want like in Europe.i have never seen a woman wearing burkha but there are a few women who wear black sheets.

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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )


Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 06:22
Originally posted by morticia morticia wrote:



 Yes! and, lucky for you, they're probably easier to CONTROL than a western woman!
 
Believe me Morty, they are ABSOLUTELY NOT!LOL


-------------
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 12:15
Originally posted by Batu Batu wrote:

in Turkey you can wear anything you want in anywhere you want like in Europe.i have never seen a woman wearing burkha but there are a few women who wear black sheets.
 
I thought that head scarves were banned in both public universities and the Turkish Parliament.   If head scarves are still banned in these places, I bet that any Turkish woman wearinf a full Saudi Style Veil or Burka would be constantly stopped and questioned by the police using any number of pretenses.
 
 


Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 15:05
Originally posted by Cryptic Cryptic wrote:

Originally posted by Batu Batu wrote:

in Turkey you can wear anything you want in anywhere you want like in Europe.i have never seen a woman wearing burkha but there are a few women who wear black sheets.
 
I thought that head scarves were banned in both public universities and the Turkish Parliament.   If head scarves are still banned in these places, I bet that any Turkish woman wearinf a full Saudi Style Veil or Burka would be constantly stopped and questioned by the police using any number of pretenses.
 
 
It is only an arrangement for state's buildings...Nowhere else.Unfortunately as a result of using religion as a tool


-------------
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: Sparten
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 00:36

Sure there should be a choice. But in Pakistan in most offices if you wear a Burka you are automatically released from employment. Headscrafs are fine. It is a bit disconcerting to talk to a letter box.



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The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 00:47
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

Sure there should be a choice. But in Pakistan in most offices if you wear a Burka you are automatically released from employment. Headscrafs are fine. It is a bit disconcerting to talk to a letter box.



Why ? Does,nt Islam propogate that ? is,nt it unislamic to release somebody for wearing a burkha ?


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: King Kang of Mu
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 03:06

I support Lezbollah!



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I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 03:54
I support both Hisbolla & HerBolla  

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Sparten
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 05:55
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma Vivek Sharma wrote:

Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

Sure there should be a choice. But in Pakistan in most offices if you wear a Burka you are automatically released from employment. Headscrafs are fine. It is a bit disconcerting to talk to a letter box.



Why ? Does,nt Islam propogate that ? is,nt it unislamic to release somebody for wearing a burkha ?
No nothing about Islam, simply a rule that most offices have (and it is put into contracts BTW). As do many resturants. Very diconcerting working with someone like that.
 


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The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 06:29
I think that the decree is to cover all for modesty, except hands and face.

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"We didnt land on Israel, Israel landed on us!!"--Palestinian X
http://www.antiwar.com - antiwar.com
http://www.crimesofwar.org - crimesofwar.org


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 08:40

The segragation rule is a must in the Mosque. This is so that full concentration is on the prayer. Morticia iam sorry to say that your comments about having little control and how men should control themselves is theoretically correct, however in prcatice it is not. Its a biological fact that ones (esp. a mans) concentration will be disrupted. If one has witnessed the congretional prayer then one will understand the close proximity between those that are praying.

If you could please look at the following:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-6lHmtk7Tk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-6lHmtk7Tk
 
 
The above depicts how the Muslim prayer; Salah (aka; Namaz) is perfermed. Now imagine people are doing this to your right, left and right infront of you, Now imagine you find the person near you sexually attractive. Are you telling me that your mind will be soley on the prayer? If so then one must go seek a doctor.
 
Women are not coinfined to a "box" either, there is a seperate space for women just as their is a seperate space for men. The reason that the ladies section is often more smaller is due to the fact that men must go to the mosque esp. on friday afternoon prayer. Women dont have to, but can if they want to,thus fewer women go on a reguler basis by their own free will. Under the logic of many members perhaps this would indicate the oppresion of men in Islam Confused
Final point about the picture of the mixer prayer in Turkey, that is more likely a publicity stunt. No one in Turkey or any were else does this, nor do they take this PR stunt as anything othern than a PR stunt


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"Freedom for the right of the Headscarf"


Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 09:50
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma Vivek Sharma wrote:

Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

Sure there should be a choice. But in Pakistan in most offices if you wear a Burka you are automatically released from employment. Headscrafs are fine. It is a bit disconcerting to talk to a letter box.



Why ? Does,nt Islam propogate that ? is,nt it unislamic to release somebody for wearing a burkha ?
 
No,Islam doesn't propogate wearing a burkha.


-------------
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: morticia
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 13:39
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma Vivek Sharma wrote:

I support both Hisbolla & HerBolla



    I support HerBolla first!

-------------
"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst


Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 13:47
Feh, if a man would rather focus on bending over on a carpet instead of a beautiful woman... Wacko

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Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.


Posted By: morticia
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 15:08
Originally posted by OSMANLI OSMANLI wrote:

The segragation rule is a must in the Mosque. This is so that full concentration is on the prayer. Morticia iam sorry to say that your comments about having little control and how men should control themselves is theoretically correct, however in prcatice it is not. Its a biological fact that ones (esp. a mans) concentration will be disrupted. If one has witnessed the congretional prayer then one will understand the close proximity between those that are praying.



The above depicts how the Muslim prayer; Salah (aka; Namaz) is perfermed. Now imagine people are doing this to your right, left and right infront of you, Now imagine you find the person near you sexually attractive. Are you telling me that your mind will be soley on the prayer? If so then one must go seek a doctor.


So, are you telling me that women are excluded because some men find them sexually attractive and will, therefore, deviate them from their holy ways? Is that a real, meaningful reason or are you just being facetious? Have these men not yet discovered how to control such sexual tendencies? Do they even try? Or is it just easier for them to remove the obstacles (women) that cause them such loss of concentration? That's amazing!     

-------------
"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst


Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 15:41
No Morty, Muslim man don't have to control theirselves, it is women's "duty" to hide theirselves from men. It remembers me as i was too school many years ago. In biology class the teacher has learned us that contraception is the duty of both man and woman. A muslim pupile didn't want to accept this fact and claimed this is only the women's duty and a muslim man has not to care about. You see Morty, this is the way how these people think...


Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 16:24
Originally posted by Maziar Maziar wrote:

this is the way how these people think...
 
Generalization is rather too easy for everyone.


-------------
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 18:00
Nonetheless, it isn't entirely wrong, which is bad enough in my book.

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Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.


Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 19:22
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

Nonetheless, it isn't entirely wrong, which is bad enough in my book.
 
Everybody has more or less a different idea about every other issue...Therefore, talking from several examples, one can't generalize...
 
It is total non-sense..
 
When I met a Serbian girl living in Switzerland, when she met me and asked where I was from,I said Turkey and first sentence was that: "You had cut my ancestors' heads"...Now what a prejudice that girl has...But does every Serb have to be like that? Definitely not...


-------------
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 20:34
Originally posted by Kapikulu Kapikulu wrote:

Originally posted by Maziar Maziar wrote:

this is the way how these people think...
 
Generalization is rather too easy for everyone.
 
This is not a generalization. I didn't say every Muslim thinks like that, i said such people thinks that way.


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 03:28
Originally posted by morticia morticia wrote:

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma Vivek Sharma wrote:

I support both Hisbolla & HerBolla  



    I support HerBolla first!


I would do that too, if given a preference. The reson being that HerBolla would be more faithfull & will not forget the support.


-------------
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 07:24

Morticia how exactly did you get the idea that women are excluded from the mosque?

I have already told you that they have room for both males and females.

If women are excluded from the men, then you can just as easily say that the men are excluded from the women. It works both ways because both are there doing the same thing (praying).

 
Maziar, thanks (i guess Confused) for telling us a bit about Persian culture regarding the both genders and contraception. However this maybe a Persian tradition but do not get it mixed up with Islam.


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"Freedom for the right of the Headscarf"


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 07:42
Well lets not take word by word. The spirit of the discussion is that these women are discriminated against. I have heard of a HUDOOD law in Pakistan where a raped women has to furnish four male eye witnesses to prove her rape, who should explicitly say that they saw this women being raped while these four gentleman stayed there enjoying a porno movie. 

If she does'nt proveide this four eyewitnesses, she becomes the accused, If the men say they saw her being raped, they would be asked , why they did'nt help her ?

DO you get a clear idea of this tragic situation for the rape victim ?


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 12:48
O here we go again, once again Vivek is bashing Pakistan. The spirit of the topic is not about the discrimination of women but it started off as praising Muslim women.
Also Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia or any other 'Muslim' state is not Islam nor is it anyway near its rulings.
 
Vivek why dont you mention that it is the Indian culture which is the reason for this cultural oppresion of women in Pakistan?
 
Please people if you dont know enough about Islam then dont fill this topic about rumours or what this or that country has done.
 
Those that actually want to know the truth about gender equity in Islan then please read the following e-book by Jamal al-Badawi Phd:
 
http://www.iad.org/PDF/GEI.pdf - http://www.iad.org/PDF/GEI.pdf


-------------

"Freedom for the right of the Headscarf"


Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 16:03
Originally posted by OSMANLI OSMANLI wrote:

Maziar, thanks (i guess Confused) for telling us a bit about Persian culture regarding the both genders and contraception. However this maybe a Persian tradition but do not get it mixed up with Islam.

 
Sorry osmanly that was in Germany, and the muslim pupile i am talking about was from Syria.


Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 17:20
Originally posted by Kapikulu Kapikulu wrote:

When I met a Serbian girl living in Switzerland, when she met me and asked where I was from,I said Turkey and first sentence was that: "You had cut my ancestors' heads"...Now what a prejudice that girl has...But does every Serb have to be like that? Definitely not...


Well, it is true, but for her to be angry with you because of this ancient incident, is nonsense.
    

-------------
Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 04:29
Originally posted by OSMANLI OSMANLI wrote:

O here we go again, once again Vivek is bashing Pakistan. The spirit of the topic is not about the discrimination of women but it started off as praising Muslim women.
Also Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia or any other 'Muslim' state is not Islam nor is it anyway near its rulings.
 
Vivek why dont you mention that it is the Indian culture which is the reason for this cultural oppresion of women in Pakistan?
 
Please people if you dont know enough about Islam then dont fill this topic about rumours or what this or that country has done.
 
Those that actually want to know the truth about gender equity in Islan then please read the following e-book by Jamal al-Badawi Phd:
 
http://www.iad.org/PDF/GEI.pdf - http://www.iad.org/PDF/GEI.pdf


Dear, I don't now why you get this feeling on perfectly logical progression of posts or how do you claim that this is off topic.

If there is something that is not good, we should admit it & not try to hide behind pseudo masks or theories. You say I am bashing somebody wihtout commenting on the Hudood law which is what prompted your post. Does'nt the hudood law exist ? Do you wish to say my thinking is hypothetical.

I never shy away from admitting the weaknesses of ourselves. In fact I had started a thresd titled & Highlighting the absence of a ferocious military culture in India. I am a fervent opposer of the caste system in India, both in Hindus as well as muslims.

I had criticised sati, I am against the practice of Jauhar in which tens of thousands of women & children are made to committ sucide in India at a go, at a single place.

Osman, You should appreciate that nobody is perfect. If there is something bad, admit it. And if bad or adverse things happen to be associated with a particular word or words again & again, it's not anybody's fault.

And another thing is what you might consider as good may be considered as bad by others. for example keeping women in Burkhas may be considered good by muslim men, but by all liberatd women all over the developed world, it would be considered a violation of the huma  rights of women. Similiar is the case of Hudood law, which may be a perfect law for some Muslims. but for most developed / civilised people, it will be a case of gross injustice & attroicity on women to go through such a inhuman tyranny.



-------------
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 04:29
Maziar please refer back to my last post.
 
Vivek, many women in the "developed" world are coming into the fold of Islam (freely may i add) and becoming more practising (inc. their dress) then those born into Muslim families.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CjJVIiHC20 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CjJVIiHC20
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2OIywkOF0Q - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2OIywkOF0Q
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctRhyK9xqcw&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctRhyK9xqcw&mode=related&search =
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc4myUoR6RQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc4myUoR6RQ
 
 
 
Also you have made it painfully obvious with your history of comments that you do not like Pakistan and are always in/directly attacking Pakistan. As i mentioned in my post prior if you REALLY want to know the truth read the ebook in my last post.


-------------

"Freedom for the right of the Headscarf"


Posted By: Rabdrake
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2008 at 21:20
I agree what the world needs is more Lezbollah Big%20smileand a lot less Hezbollah.Ouch
 
To that effect please check out.
 
    http://rabdrake.wordpress.com/ - http://rabdrake.wordpress.com/
 
Is there a popular history forum?
Although renaissance, my main interest is Cultural Lesbiana. 
 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbfW6Yr9chM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbfW6Yr9chM
 
I am a Lesbian Pop historian; I would love to contribute in such a forum


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Ralph, Let's call her Ralph


Posted By: The Hidden Face
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2008 at 15:46
Originally posted by Rabdrake Rabdrake wrote:

 I am a Lesbian Pop historian. I would love to contribute in such a forum


You're welcome. Wink


Posted By: Rabdrake
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2008 at 00:01
    I wish to post a reply to stimulate debate. Please check the youtube site the "IDF -GIRLS."
 
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfaCUCy817s - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfaCUCy817s   
 
     Please, try to ignore the blatant antisemitism and crude hate speech comments, at the above link.Angry I think it is a symptom of how threatening we find gender equality.
     After millennia of male domination, it terrifies us to imagine a world where over 3 billion females might realize their potential.  In the struggle against the absolute hegemony that males have over the major religions, it is still nearly impossible to overcome the world held view of male superiorly. As a white man over sixty, I can state that what is wrong with the United States is that there are too many white men over fifty in power. The only way a woman can get to be in power is if she trumpets the anti-choice, male superiority party line. 
 
     In addition, please check out my blog page and link 
 
       http://rabdrake.wordpress.com/category/israeli-women/ - http://rabdrake.wordpress.com/category/israeli-women/
 
     I  am neither Israeli nor Jewish. My challenge is: please find comparable positive images of women, particular woman to woman, anywhere else. Politics aside, it is obvious that Israel is doing some thing right.  
 
What the world needs is a lot more LezbollahWink and a lot less hezbollahOuch


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Ralph, Let's call her Ralph


Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2008 at 01:43
Let's see. You want us to turn AE forumers into a bunch of Lezbonese feelgood fighters? Could we think about that for a minute. Ermm "Oh...maybe...naw...well..nope...but...can't do it." Nice try though. Maybe we could spam your blog like you are doing here. What the world needs is a lot more forum protocola and a lot less spam-ola! Here's where I get to tell you to - go back to your commune in San Franhollah.


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Copyright 2004 Seko


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2008 at 10:30
Quote Politics aside, it is obvious that Israel is doing some thing right.  [Politics aside, it is obvious that Israel is doing some thing right.  
I wouldn't go that far.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19 - http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19
 
 


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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor


Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2008 at 13:31
Originally posted by Rabdrake Rabdrake wrote:

I am a Lesbian Pop historian; I would love to contribute in such a forum


I don't care if you spam or not; lesbian historians are the best historians and I will believe anything you say! Approve

The world does need more Lezbollah, certainly. Wouldn't hurt if it was in my bedroom either.


-------------
Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.



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