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BEST ARTILLERY IN THE WORLD.

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Modern Warfare
Forum Discription: Military history and miltary science from the ''Cold War'' era onward.
URL: http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12045
Printed Date: 01-Aug-2014 at 14:51


Topic: BEST ARTILLERY IN THE WORLD.
Posted By: Russian
Subject: BEST ARTILLERY IN THE WORLD.
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 21:21


Hi, guys, I contunue the "best whatever" type of topics, we allready have best tank and warship, here is another one:

What is the best artillery to your opinion, best as the most powerful and longest range.

types of artillery I am thinking about are self propelled and rocket artillery, since not much countries are using towed nowadays (if ther eare other types of artillery, tell me please)

My picks would be Smerch MLRS for rocekt, here is why:

Longer range than any other artillery system on this planet, and a very big calibre, 300 mm, 12 tubes, shoots all rockets in 38 seconds, has a homing spy vehicle that hangs above the battlefield for 30 minutes, launched from one of the tubes. One salvo covers 670x670 meters of area, leaving nothing alive there.

The range is by the way 90 km with new rocekts and 70 km with usual.

Can shatter anti-tank mines over a large area.

can use fuel air explosives, in short, here is the link that says all it can use:

http://www.splav.org/en/arms/smerch/index.asp

Smerch is considered by many experts to be a single best rocket artillery on the planet, "Smerch" means hurricane in russian.

note: all those who want to say that US M270 has longer range, because it can launch an Army TACMS, all those people, note that ATACMS is not considered artillery, but short range ballistic missile, if those people want to classify ATACMS as artillery, let us for same reasons classify Iskander as artiller (400 km range).

For self-propelled conventional artillery, I would pick Pion, largest, most powerful, longest range.

Pion has 203.2 mm gun, uses 110 kg shells, range is 47 km for shells with engine, 37 km for just usual shells.

here is the link:

http://www.enemyforces.com/artillery/pion.htm
    
    



Replies:
Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 22-May-2006 at 21:47
come on guys, let us discuss some artillery


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 06:22
well i'd prefer instead of "best" which is quite absolutist sounding.

Relative strengths and weakness of todays'...... would be more accurate.
While artillery is a broad group, I would split it into
  • MRL's of varoius sizes,
  • self propelled wheeled and tracked artillery
  • light and heavier calibre towed artillery .

And then you have Mortars

in the tank thread i took a position that one size doesnt fit all. I would imagine each category has its own advantages and practicalites, let alone systems.


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 09:39

Originally posted by Leonidas


well i'd prefer instead of "best" which is quite absolutist sounding. Relative strengths and weakness of todays'...... would be more accurate.While artillery is a broad group, I would split it into
  • MRL's of varoius sizes,
  • self propelled wheeled and tracked artillery
  • light and heavier calibre towed artillery .
And then you have Mortarsin the tank thread i took a position that one size doesnt fit all. I would imagine each category has its own advantages and practicalites, let alone systems.


well, I would say that MLRS is the most powerful by far, longer range, more powerfu lexplosives, more area taken out.

but anyway, tell me what you think the best in each of the categories you provided.
    


Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 12:23
I'm not very well informed about modern days artillery though from what I've read the Russians are on top at all categories.
What about close support artillery, aren't there any more of those?
I know you can use MLRS to hit the enemy at near strategic range but infantry still need close support artillery. And that Smerch doesn't seem to be the best item I need to do that.
And what about infantry artillery, recoiless guns or mortars. Aren't they useful anymore. I remember that in the Falklands war the British forces still used the 105 mm alpine gun.
Do I need a Smerch for close support or a Katiusha 82 will do the job as well and at a far lower price.
In close support, artillery is mostly for supression  of the enemy so that infantry can engage in close combat. You don't always want everything in front of you blasted into oblivion.
So I'll say that artillery, by being a support to infantry, or tanks (though tanks themselves cannot accomplish a conquest, infantry is also required to consolidate the gains of a breaktrough of the armor) is necessarelyy related to the theater, therefore the best artillery is the one that can most efficiently ensure the achievement of the fighting in my favor. Whether I use a 800 mm howitzer or a 25 mm anti-tank gun.
I don't see the use of a Smerch in an alpine troops engagement or jungle warfare.


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 13:43


Originally posted by Cezar

I'm not very well informed about modern days artillery though from what I've read the Russians are on top at all categories.
What about close support artillery, aren't there any more of those?

I know you can use MLRS to hit the enemy at near strategic range but infantry still need close support artillery. And that Smerch doesn't seem to be the best item I need to do that.

And what about infantry artillery, recoiless guns or mortars. Aren't they useful anymore. I remember that in the Falklands war the British forces still used the 105 mm alpine gun.

Do I need a Smerch for close support or a Katiusha 82 will do the job as well and at a far lower price.

In close support, artillery is mostly for supression  of the enemy so that infantry can engage in close combat. You don't always want everything in front of you blasted into oblivion.

So I'll say that artillery, by being a support to infantry, or tanks (though tanks themselves cannot accomplish a conquest, infantry is also required to consolidate the gains of a breaktrough of the armor) is necessarelyy related to the theater, therefore the best artillery is the one that can most efficiently ensure the achievement of the fighting in my favor. Whether I use a 800 mm howitzer or a 25 mm anti-tank gun.

I don't see the use of a Smerch in an alpine troops engagement or jungle warfare.


Smerch can and soon will be used in mountains, that's why India bought it recently from Russia.

you will not be able to efficiently use 800 mm gun, you will not be able to properly move it, then the projectile is so big that it can't be shot that far (I again mean long range engagements)

You are right though, Smerch has ridiculous range and the smallest range you can shoot it is 20 km, but ok, for close ranges Russia has this:

Buratino TOS-1:

http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=TOS-1&btnG=Search&sa=N&tab=wi

30!!! tubes, smallest range is 400 meters, longest - 3,5 km, burns everything alive to ashes, uses fuel air explosives, does a full salvo in 7,5 seconds. Again, no equivalents in other armies.

I don't know much about mortars, I think it is outdated, while you have this thing, which will burn digged enemy, enemy mines and everything else that you need burned, it can be also used as a weapon for cleaing up after chemical weapons so that troops can go there.

And here, this thing will destroy Abrams from above:

http://www.splav.org/ru/arms/smerch/m55k1.asp

it is in russian, I will translate if you are interested, it is self-guiding anti tank projectiles, 5 in one rocket.
    


Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 14:05
Originally posted by Russian


Originally posted by Cezar

I'm not very well informed about modern days artillery though from what I've read the Russians are on top at all categories.
What about close support artillery, aren't there any more of those?

I know you can use MLRS to hit the enemy at near strategic range but infantry still need close support artillery. And that Smerch doesn't seem to be the best item I need to do that.

And what about infantry artillery, recoiless guns or mortars. Aren't they useful anymore. I remember that in the Falklands war the British forces still used the 105 mm alpine gun.

Do I need a Smerch for close support or a Katiusha 82 will do the job as well and at a far lower price.

In close support, artillery is mostly for supression  of the enemy so that infantry can engage in close combat. You don't always want everything in front of you blasted into oblivion.

So I'll say that artillery, by being a support to infantry, or tanks (though tanks themselves cannot accomplish a conquest, infantry is also required to consolidate the gains of a breaktrough of the armor) is necessarelyy related to the theater, therefore the best artillery is the one that can most efficiently ensure the achievement of the fighting in my favor. Whether I use a 800 mm howitzer or a 25 mm anti-tank gun.

I don't see the use of a Smerch in an alpine troops engagement or jungle warfare.


Smerch can and soon will be used in mountains, that's why India bought it recently from Russia.

you will not be able to efficiently use 800 mm gun, you will not be able to properly move it, then the projectile is so big that it can't be shot that far (I again mean long range engagements)

You are right though, Smerch has ridiculous range and the smallest range you can shoot it is 20 km, but ok, for close ranges Russia has this:

Buratino TOS-1:

http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=TOS-1&btnG=Search&sa=N&tab=wi

30!!! tubes, smallest range is 400 meters, longest - 3,5 km, burns everything to ashes, uses fuel air explosives, does a full salvo in 7,5 seconds.

I don't know much about mortars, I think it is outdated, while you have this thing, which will burn digged enemy, enemy mines and everything else that you need burned, it can be also used as a weapon for cleaing up after chemical weapons so that troops can go there.
 
Gee, man! I said I don't want everything in front of me blasted into oblivion! Just need some suppression so we can go in and get them! I'm not trying to create a hecatomb! Just pour some shells on their strongholds and let us do our job. We need some of them alive and to minimize collateral damage.
 
Here's a stupid 800 mm: the "Dora". Useless but good looking.
http://palpatine.chez-alice.fr/Page13/page13.htm - http://palpatine.chez-alice.fr/Page13/page13.htm


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 17:03

Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by Cezar

I'm not very well informed about modern days artillery though from what I've read the Russians are on top at all categories.
What about close support artillery, aren't there any more of those?

I know you can use MLRS to hit the enemy at near strategic range but infantry still need close support artillery. And that Smerch doesn't seem to be the best item I need to do that.

And what about infantry artillery, recoiless guns or mortars. Aren't they useful anymore. I remember that in the Falklands war the British forces still used the 105 mm alpine gun.

Do I need a Smerch for close support or a Katiusha 82 will do the job as well and at a far lower price.

In close support, artillery is mostly for supression  of the enemy so that infantry can engage in close combat. You don't always want everything in front of you blasted into oblivion.

So I'll say that artillery, by being a support to infantry, or tanks (though tanks themselves cannot accomplish a conquest, infantry is also required to consolidate the gains of a breaktrough of the armor) is necessarelyy related to the theater, therefore the best artillery is the one that can most efficiently ensure the achievement of the fighting in my favor. Whether I use a 800 mm howitzer or a 25 mm anti-tank gun.

I don't see the use of a Smerch in an alpine troops engagement or jungle warfare.
Smerch can and soon will be used in mountains, that's why India bought it recently from Russia. you will not be able to efficiently use 800 mm gun, you will not be able to properly move it, then the projectile is so big that it can't be shot that far (I again mean long range engagements) You are right though, Smerch has ridiculous range and the smallest range you can shoot it is 20 km, but ok, for close ranges Russia has this: Buratino TOS-1: http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=TOS-1&btnG=Search&sa=N&tab=wi 30!!! tubes, smallest range is 400 meters, longest - 3,5 km, burns everything to ashes, uses fuel air explosives, does a full salvo in 7,5 seconds. I don't know much about mortars, I think it is outdated, while you have this thing, which will burn digged enemy, enemy mines and everything else that you need burned, it can be also used as a weapon for cleaing up after chemical weapons so that troops can go there.

 

Gee, man! I said I don't want everything in front of me blasted into oblivion! Just need some suppression so we can go in and get them! I'm not trying to create a hecatomb! Just pour some shells on their strongholds and let us do our job. We need some of them alive and to minimize collateral damage.

 

Here's a stupid 800 mm: the "Dora". Useless but good looking.

http://palpatine.chez-alice.fr/Page13/page13.htm - http://palpatine.chez-alice.fr/Page13/page13.htm


lol, ok, ok, by the way, The big gun is not the biggest calibre, and one single Smerch unit can deliver more explosives than one shell of this gun, and to much longer range, these huge guns of Germany were a waste of money and resources.

Well, something small, I dunno, nowadays it htey see a stronghold I would guess they would launch something like this except a mortar:

RPO "Shmel'":

http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/jidr/jidr010104_3_n.shtml

it is also fuel air explosives, clears up a small house in one shoot, there are rumors it has been used in Beslan school siege, but rumors are false (I think), because if it would be used, there would be not much left from school by now. With this you can shoot at bunker, preferably in to the window, everybody in rooms close to it will die, and you can go in, take the position.


Posted By: aghart
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 17:41
Originally posted by Cezar

I remember that in the Falklands war the British forces still used the 105 mm alpine gun.
 
 
The 105mm light gun used by the British in the Falklands (and still in service) is not the old Alpine gun but a much better and more modern artillery piece. It has been described as the best light weapon of it's type in the world although I expect Russian will now chip in with "the russians have a bigger and better gun than that"LOL
 
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/aad/aad_lg.htm - http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/aad/aad_lg.htm


-------------
Former Tank Commander (Chieftain)& remember, Change is inevitable!!! except from vending machines


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 11:26

Originally posted by aghart

Originally posted by Cezar

I remember that in the Falklands war the British forces still used the 105 mm alpine gun.
 

 

The 105mm light gun used by the British in the Falklands (and still in service) is not the old Alpine gun but a much better and more modern artillery piece. It has been described as the best light weapon of it's type in the world although I expect Russian will now chip in with "the russians have a bigger and better gun than that"
 

http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/aad/aad_lg.htm - http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/aad/aad_lg.htm


Dude, rissians got friggin 300 mm 12 tube launcher, what is this , lol, no, I am just kidding, I am not interested in this kind of stuff, but can you tell me where this type of artillery is used, for what purposes?
    


Posted By: aghart
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 18:29
The Falklands is a classic example of the best use of light artillery.  It can be easily transported by helipcopter, towed by just about any type of vehicle, even pushed and pulled by it's crew to get it into position.
 
Heavy towed or SP guns would have been useless in that situation, they would have sunk in the sodden ground conditions, Russian,  all the large and powerful Russian artillery would have been worse than useless in that conflict. The only time the Soviet forces went into action outside of their own territory was in Afghanistan where they were battered and defeated by a bunch of peasants, maybe if they had had the 105mm light gun ???


-------------
Former Tank Commander (Chieftain)& remember, Change is inevitable!!! except from vending machines


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 19:32

Originally posted by aghart

The Falklands is a classic example of the best use of light artillery.  It can be easily transported by helipcopter, towed by just about any type of vehicle, even pushed and pulled by it's crew to get it into position.
 

Heavy towed or SP guns would have been useless in that situation, they would have sunk in the sodden ground conditions, Russian,  all the large and powerful Russian artillery would have been worse than useless in that conflict. The only time the Soviet forces went into action outside of their own territory was in Afghanistan where they were battered and defeated by a bunch of peasants, maybe if they had had the 105mm light gun ???


no, no, no,they were not battered or anything, Afghanistans were battered, if Soviet Union wanted, it would leave NONE alive in Afghanistan, my friend, it would kill whole population, for the same reason, I can say that US is also battered in Iraq it is different kind of war, US was also battered in Vietnam, however, we understand that US had enough land army to erase Iraq or Vietnam from the face of this planet, same true for Afghanistan.
    

Ok, now about mobility, Russian Smerch is very mobile, it is a truck, it is made for russian stupid terrain. I don't think towed artillery is used nowadays a lot, what for?

by asking what is it used as, I mean what is it's purpose, to attack tanks or something else, maybe bunkers? or smaller houses?


Posted By: machine
Date Posted: 28-May-2006 at 12:19
Russians werent battered they had it under control. American media tells us how these peasents (with American help) destroyed the evil reds. When infact they didnt, they pulled out not because they were losing but because of politics.

-------------


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 28-May-2006 at 14:44

Originally posted by machine

Russians werent battered they had it under control. American media tells us how these peasents (with American help) destroyed the evil reds. When infact they didnt, they pulled out not because they were losing but because of politics.

    

Thank you, Machine.

Yes, it is a common misconception that big countries "GET STUCK" in small countries.

If big countries (Russia, USA) want, the ywill rip the country apart, kill all it' scitizens, easily, but the trick is that they don't go there for that, they go there for other reasons.


Posted By: Sparten
Date Posted: 29-May-2006 at 10:26
Read "Bear Trap" by Brig Yousaf PA. Its about the intelligence operations inside Afghanistan.
BTR-60, tended to blow up, when barely nicked.


-------------
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 29-May-2006 at 11:17

Originally posted by Sparten

Read "Bear Trap" by Brig Yousaf PA. Its about the intelligence operations inside Afghanistan.
BTR-60, tended to blow up, when barely nicked.



well, same is true about US armored personell carriers and sometimes tanks.

but hey, we went away from topic
     


Posted By: Sparten
Date Posted: 29-May-2006 at 14:48
Soviet equipment in Afghan was mostly inferior. As were most of the troops, most were Cat 3 reservists IIRC.


-------------
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".


Posted By: machine
Date Posted: 29-May-2006 at 23:01
They were fighting an inferior enemy.

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Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 00:26

Originally posted by Sparten

Soviet equipment in Afghan was mostly inferior. As were most of the troops, most were Cat 3 reservists IIRC.

    

that's not true, for artillery soviets used this:

http://images.google.ca/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=Buratino+TOS-1&btnG=Search

which is in no way inferior, most contries do not even have equivalent to this.

there was some new studd in Afghanistan, it is just a kind of war that screws big armies up, not with big losses, but with smaller possibility to use your big numbers rather than in the field.


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 06:48
self propelled track favourite of mine is the http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pzh2000/ - PZH 2000 (Greece has 24)


wheeled is the http://www.army-technology.com/projects/g6/ - G6 (but some of these newer lighter types like the ceasar seem quite handy for rapid action forces)




for heavy towed, i havent updated what i know. Ive in the past been partial to makers like http:////www.denel.co.za/Landsystems/Artillery_Systems.asp - denel (G5-2000 is the lastest) and http://www.patria.fi/index2.htm - Patria,   actaully anything european.

105mm light towed, as already stated is very handy. yes it can be outranged, but its light and more appropiate for certain terrain/sitauations than a whopping PHZ. The british one is the benchmark system, its also made and used in Australia around 60 or so.




Other weapons that should be look at, The Patria double barreled 120mm mortar system, turret has been placed on the CV90 and small partol boats.






Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 16:01
I like that mortar!!! Can I get someWink?
Artillery is useful as long as it does it's job. Whether is Smerch, Buratino, or the 105.
Artillery is not who decides what the theater is.


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 16:15
thanks, some cool pics, I liked the one in the middle, with desert coloring, lol, I think it is called Rhino, these might be pretty good, but what is their range, calibre?

I think russian equivalent would be this:

2S19 152-mm Self-Propelled Howitzer



But my personal favourite is the best MLRS on the planet, Smerch, range up to 90 km, 12 tubes 300 mm each.






This thing is just awesome, 203 mm self propelled, way better than M110, more range, bigger projectile, a friggin monster, Pion holds a record for range of fire among any self-propelled howitzer:






And this is legendary Katusha, made in 1939, was deployed in big numbers only by the end of war, this either one of the first rocekt propelled artillery systems, or the very first, german soldiers nicknamed it "Stalin Organs", because of it's sound, it was greatly feared by german soldiers, they said they were terrified to hear this thing every day, early in the morning



this is another awesome piece, TOS-1 Buratino, nicknamed by Nato "city destroyer" uses thermobaric explosives, it was used in Afghanistan and Chechnya very succesfully, against caves and other closed areas, thermobaric exmplosives consume all air in the area, well, first rocket explodes sending gas and fuel all around the closed area, then, it all ignites at the same time and firebal travels big distances, comes around corners and basically burns the hell out of everything alive in the area, also, if somebody is not burned, he or she will more likely be crushed by overpressure.



fires a ful volley in 7 seconds, it is ridiculous, 30 rockets in 7 seconds.


    

why you like mortars so much Cezar? they are not nearly as effective as rocket artillery or for example RPG, or RPO.

And here is also some history, famous Zveroboy, SU-152, nicknamed Zveroboy, which means beast killer, by russian soldiers and can opener by german soldiers. When it's 152 m shells were hitting tiger, in close engagement, it's turret was ripped clean off the tank. in Kursk battle, 12 Zveroboy's destroyed 12 Tigers and 7 elephants.






And I have a question for you guys, why use conventional artillery, like mortars and all this stuff, while you can use stuff like Smerch, Buratino, which is way more destructive?




Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 16:20
Hey, Russian, they look great, but what about us? Sometimes we don't need wipping out, we just want to get there. I know RU artillery is the best in the world but is it the best suitable support weapon?
 
*I'm just an infantry boy who think that I'm of some use.
 
**Mortars are great. Ever been on the receiving end of one?
 
***instead of "Buratino" could I have "Pinocchio"?


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 17:46


Originally posted by Cezar

Hey, Russian, they look great, but what about us? Sometimes we don't need wipping out, we just want to get there. I know RU artillery is the best in the world but is it the best suitable support weapon?
 

*I'm just an infantry boy who think that I'm of some use.

 

**Mortars are great. Ever been on the receiving end of one?

 

***instead of "Buratino" could I have "Pinocchio"?


ok, let me first continue the post, then answer your question, ok? My other post was too big
     

ok, here is what I wanted to say about Krasnopol:

Here is Krasnopol, that, as some american articles state, forces us (americans), reconsider some of our tactics and ways of fighting.

Krasnopol (152/155mm) projectile is fired with standard propellant charges into a ballistic trajectory. At the peak, the nose cap is ejected, and the laser seeker begins to scan the ground for laser designated targets. Krasnopol munitions are stowed in two separate sections – control section and projectile. Both are connected before firing when it is prepared for a mission. The system is designed to enable multiple engagements of different rounds in a small area, using several designators, as well as salvo firing by different artillery pieces, engaging a single target, illuminated by a single laser designator.

The company is also offering a laser designator for the system, which is capable of targeting a large size object at a range of 20 km. A moving tank can be targeted at a range of 5 km, or 7 km, when it is stationary. The firing range of the Krasnopol weapon is 20km. Hit probability of these munitions range from 0.7 – 0.9, depending on the specific engagement conditions.

French are considering to buy Krasnopol, Veneusuella bought it I think, India aqcuired them allready, China also, countries are buying it.

Let us compare it to US Excalibur, Excalibur has a bit less accuracy, but it doesn't needs to be guided by laser, Krasnopol needs infantry support, it needs a soldier to guide a target for 5 seconds, then Krasnopol shoots and destroyes the target. Now the trick, one excalibur shell costs 40000 dollars!! compared to Krasnopol's 1000-2000 each, now make conclusions which is better, and Krasnopol has higher accuracy.

During tests in France the Bofors destroyed 5 targets with five 155mm shells equipped with Krasnopol guidance system (3 MOVING tanks, one APC and concrete wall) from 12km distance, with guiding personnel at 3km to the targets.

The comparison between Krasnopol and US Copperhead shells, by FAS:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/krasnopol.htm


as you can see, a lot of restrictions are placed on storage, handling and pre-shooting examining of copperhead, while none of these o Krasnopol.

here is examinasion's conclusion:

The potential low-cost proliferation of these rounds provides potential U.S. adversaries a capability to successfully attack and destroy targets ranging from thinly protected C4I systems to armored vehicles at a critical place and time on a future battlefield. Thus, these rounds can also become a force multiplier for small forces (guerrilla, terrorist, etc.) against a larger, technically advanced force in low intensity conflicts or military operations other than war.

After having Krasnopol, which you can fire from almost any 152/155 mm guns, whether towed, or self propelled, or flying, it seems to me that actual systems are not everything, it seems to me that shells are important, and as we can see, europeans buy Krasnopol for their 155 mm howitzers, which proves something.

By the way, can PZH 2000 shot on the move? does it have guided projectiles, like Krasnopol or Copperhead?

pics:

    

    


Well, ok, mortars are good, but let us say I have a choice, to be on receiving end of mortar, or Smerch or Buratino, I would definitely chose mortar.

Russian artilery is not that much of a supports weapon, it is main attack weapon, recall german general Otto Carius:

"Even the Americans, whom I would know very well on the Western Front later on, can not be compared with Russians. The Ivans fired on our positions with all kinds of artillery, from light mortars up to heavy howitzers. We were not able to come out from our shelters in order to check our Tigers. It is not strange that the Russians easily broke our front line after such heavy fire".

Of course you can have pinoccio, they are same characters, lol, .

I know what you mean Cezar, human life on battlefield worth nothing, it was different in for example middle ages, when the only thing that could kill you is another man with a bow, from whom you had shield as a protection, or another soldier with a sword, from whom you defended with a sword, and warrior's strength size, agility, brains all mattered, unfortunately, it all gradually diminished with the appearence of guns, artillery, tanks, assault rifles and so on.


Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 18:17

Now, this is it! I knew you had it but you must have concealed it because I was Romanian (just kidding, got something to do with another twist-mind-blurry-fake around here that says we hate RussiansConfused).

That Krasnopol thing is what I need. Four of them would come in handy. Also a Burattino for close back-up and a Smerch for ... just in case. Tell the tank boys we have it under control and just make them do their job.
 
*Cecenia (I spelled it in Romanian) is something quite different from the SU "invasion" of Afghanistan or the "freedom war" of the US in Iraq.
 
*btw, Vietnam wasn't also a "freedom war"?. Who is the real winner of that war (Korea sounds misplaced for this topic?)?
 
** NVA was using mostly SU made technolgy. What kind of artillery were they using and what was it's efficiency? (SAM's are irrelevant here, please)


Posted By: Russian
Date Posted: 30-May-2006 at 18:33

Originally posted by Cezar

Now, this is it! I knew you had it but you must have concealed it because I was Romanian (just kidding, got something to do with another twist-mind-blurry-fake around here that says we hate Russians[IMG]height=17 alt=Confused src="http://www.allempires.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>).


That Krasnopol thing is what I need. Four of them would come in handy. Also a Burattino for close back-up and a Smerch for ... just in case. Tell the tank boys we have it under control and just make them do their job.

 

*Cecenia (I spelled it in Romanian) is something quite different from the SU "invasion" of Afghanistan or the "freedom war" of the US in Iraq.

 

*btw, Vietnam wasn't also a "freedom war"?. Who is the real winner of that war (Korea sounds misplaced for this topic?)?

 

** NVA was using mostly SU made technolgy. What kind of artillery were they using and what was it's efficiency? (SAM's are irrelevant here, please)

    

lol, Yeah, Vietnam was a mistake by USa, and they pooped themselves there, and before it, remember, One of their presidents said: We will nevr be an agressor, we will allways protect peace and liberty in this world, and like some time after that, they start a war on Vietnam, for PURELY political reasons, BOOM, there you go, freedom and peace.

I will try to find something more like Krasnopol for you, yeah, it is a good thing to have versus tanks of the enemy, that's why many countries buy it, for big distances, it is also top attack, which means it wouldn't matter how much tons of DU there is in front armor of a tank, plus, there is something for a infantry boy in Krasnopol, infantry has to guide it's shell, to shot laser for 5 seconds at a tank, well, I guess infantry's job is not that simple after all, and infantry works n close association with artillery and other branches.


Posted By: jetsetter
Date Posted: 14-Jun-2006 at 22:51
Modern US artillery (You must remeber that Russian figures are usually higher than the real numbers.  The US usually understates its figures.)
 
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m109a6.htm - M109A6 Paladin
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m270.htm - M270 MLRS
HIMARS
M102 105mm Lightweight Towed Howitzer
M198 Towed Howitzer
M777 Lightweight 155mm howitzer (LW155)M224 60mm Lightweight Company Mortar System (LWCMS)
M252 81mm Medium Extended Range Mortar
M120 120mm Mortar
 
As for shells.
 

The 155mm diameter projectiles offer a wide range of options for battlefield usage.

Bursting 155mm Projectiles
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m104.htm - M104 - Delivers H or HD blister gas [not in active service, slated for destruction].
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m107.htm - M107 - The Army's standard high explosive (HE) projectile used principally for fragmentation and blast effects.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m110.htm - M110A1/A2 - Delivers H or HD blister gas [not in active service, slated for destruction].
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m116.htm - M116A1/B1 - Creates white chemical smoke for screening, spotting and signaling.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m121_155.htm - M121/A1 - GB or VX nerve gas [not in active service, slated for destruction]
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m122.htm - M122 - GB nerve gas [not in active service, slated for destruction]
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m549a1.htm - M549A1 RAP - Comprised of two components, a high explosive warhead and a rocket motor; the rocket motor ignites following discharge from the cannon and extends the effective range of the cannon.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m687.htm - M687 - Binary GB nerve gas [not in active service]
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m795.htm - M795 - HE projectile intended to replace the stockpiled M107 and designed to be fired using top zone propelling.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m825.htm - M825 WP white phosphorus smoke
    Cargo Carrying 155mm Projectiles
      http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/dpicm.htm - Dual-Purpose Improved Conventional Munition (DPICM)

  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/macs.htm - M231 MACS
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/macs.htm - M232 MACS
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m449.htm - M449A1 - Delivers anti-personnel submunitions to defeat enemy personnel in open or uncovered areas.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m483.htm - M483A1 FASCAM - Used to deliver a cargo of 88 M46 grenades for defeating armor and personnel targets.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m485.htm - M485A1/A2 - Dispenses illumination cargo to provide unaided nighttime vision.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/adam.htm - M692 ADAM - Delivers anti-personnel mines.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/raam.htm - M718A1 RAAM - Delivers anti-tank mines to deny/delay access to a particular area.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/adam.htm - M731 ADAM - Delivers anti-personnel mines.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/raam.htm - M741A1 RAAM - Delivers anti-tank mines to deny/delay access to a particular area.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/smoke.htm - M825A1 - Most improved version of white phosphorus smoke for obscuring vision to screen maneuvering forces.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m864.htm - M864 DPICM - Similar to the M483A1 with the addition of a base burner assembly to decrease drag and increase range.
  • XM867 - Developmental projectile which employs electronic radio jamming devices.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/radam.htm - M1023 Remote Area Denial Artillery Munition (RADAM)
Smart/Guided 155mm Projectiles
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m712.htm - M712 Copperhead
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/sadarm.htm - XM898 SADARM - Developmental projectile with a cargo of two submunitions capable of defeating heavily armored vehicles. Each submunition contains sensors for target detection, a means for stabilizing and controlling the rate of descent, and a warhead capable of defeating armor.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m982-155.htm - XM982 Excalibur - Similiar to the M483A1 with the addition of a rocket motor to further increase the effective range, and with options to increase delivery accuracy.
  • http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/tcm.htm - Trajectory Correctable Munition (TCM)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/d12-45a.gif">

Separate loading ammunition is used in 155mm howitzers. Separate loading ammunition has four separate components: primer, propellant, projectile, and fuze. The four components are issued separately. Upon preparation for firing, the projectile and propellant are loaded into the howitzer in two separate operations. Separate loading ammunition propellants are issued as a separate unit of issue in sealed canisters to protect the propellant. The amount of propellant to be fired with artillery ammunition is varied by the number of propellant increments. The charge selected is based on the range to the target and the tactical situation.

  • Green Bag, M3A1, propellant is designed for firing charges 1 through 5. The propellant is fastened together with four cloth straps sewn to the base and hand tied on top of increment 5. The igniter pad (3.5 oz. CBI) is located on the base increment. The entire M3A1 propellant contains approximately 5.5 pounds of single perforated neutral burning powder. There are flash reducers containing potassium sulfate or potassium nitrate sewn forward of charges 1 (2 oz. pad), 4 and 5 (1 oz. pad each). Explain that each increment varies in size and also explain the purpose and function of flash reducers. The flash reducers limit breech flare back, muzzle flash, and blast over-pressure.
  • White Bag, M4A2 propellant is designed for charges 3 through 7. Their basic configuration is the same as GB propellant. The M4A2 contains approximately 13 lbs. of multi-perforated, (Progressive burn) propellant. A flash reducer pad containing one ounce of potassium nitrate or potassium sulfate is sewn to the base increment.
  • Charge 8WB, M119 - This single increment, multiperforated, white bag charge with a perforated igniter core tube extending through the center of the propellant with a flash reducer sewn to the forward end. It can only be used in the long tube 155mm howitzers (M19 series and the M198). STORE HORIZONTALLY due to the central, perforated igniter core tube. Cannot fire rocket-assisted projectiles using M119 due to the design of the flash reducer.
  • Charge 8WB, M119A1, is exactly the same as the M119 except for the donut shaped flash reducer sewn to the forward end. This design of the flash reducer precludes ignition of the rocket motor for RAP.
  • Charge 7RB, M119A2, is a single increment 7 red bag charge for firing in 155mm howitzers that have the M185 and M199 cannon tubes. The forward end of the charge has a 3-ounce lead foil liner and four pockets sewn longitudinally to the circumference. Each of the four pockets contains 4 oz of potassium sulfate to act as a flash reducer. Charge 7RB can be used interchangeably with charge 8WB with a minor difference in muzzle velocity. The M119A2 was created to correspond with existing NATO firing tables.
  • M203 propellant is a zone 8S charge designed to provide extended range for the M198, M19A5/A6 howitzers. The M203 propellant charge is a single increment, red bag charge with a central igniter core extending through its entire length and a donut-shaped flash reducer at the forward end of the charge. The M203 is used only with the M549A1 (TNT loaded) RAP, the M825 FELT WEDGE, and the M864 base bleed projectiles.
  • M203A1 Propellant Also a single increment base ignited charge. The outer casing is a solid combustible material. There is still an igniter pad at the base of the propellant, and it contains .7 ounces of black powder and 1- ounce of CBI. The propellant is not made up of granules; it consists of 28-pounds of slotted, stick propellant. The M203A1 charge is fired only with the M549A1 (TNT loaded), RAP, M825 felt wedge, and M864 projectiles in the M198 and M109A5/6 howitzers. The reasons for design of the M203A1 propelling charge are; 1) cooler burning, less flash, blast, and tube wear. 2) Casing form is more durable causing for less igniter core damage. 3) For automatic loading systems, it allows fewer mechanical problems.

The Modular Artillery Charge System, a replacement system for 155mm propelling charges, offers simplified logistics compared to traditional bag propellant systems.

 


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 06:37
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3139944045120551000&q=iran+iraq+war - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3139944045120551000&q=iran+iraq+war
Look at this video, you can see one of the Iraqi tank crew surviving a mortar round at the end.

-------------


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 22:45
found the naval version of that 120mm double barrel AMOS turret from finland. while trying to locate a video on Janes.

Swedish Combatboat 90H assault landing boat (21 April 2004)
An AMOS turret has been installed on a Swedish Combatboat 90H assault landing boat for trials

http://www2.janes.com/docs/defpicgal/naval_forces/gallery/defgal_040421.shtml -






Posted By: Desimir
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 12:45
For artillery missiles i choose Smerch and TOS-1,they are just the best.PZH 2000 is the best self propelled artillery(Germans are still making super weapons).Hey jetsetter in the most cases US overstate the quality of their weapons(for example stealth planes,the nuclear shield,abrams tank and etc.)


Posted By: Gundamor
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 23:44
Originally posted by Desimir

For artillery missiles i choose Smerch and TOS-1,they are just the best.PZH 2000 is the best self propelled artillery(Germans are still making super weapons).Hey jetsetter in the most cases US overstate the quality of their weapons(for example stealth planes,the nuclear shield,abrams tank and etc.)


And of course the U.S. is the only country that overstates their capabilities.
     

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"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 04:16
The extraordinary technical wizardry of US would fail because they cannot take human losses, which any good general would be able to inflict even with mediocore weapons.

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: jetsetter
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 01:42
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The extraordinary technical wizardry of US would fail because they cannot take human losses, which any good general would be able to inflict even with mediocore weapons.
 
Have any proof of this?  You provide a war where the US is in danger and we will fight to the death.


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 16:08
Since the United States has never* faced an enemy that had the capability to destroy us as a nation / people  nor is it very likely that we will face such an enemy in the forseable future.....
 
Vivek has a very valid point.
 
*The Native Americans have faced such an enemy, but the American nation as a whole has not.



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