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Forum LockedPersian Words in Turkish

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    Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 22:44

Hi im learning turkish and have become amazed at the amout of similar words to persian, i wonder why is this, is it becuase persian was the language of the arts in ottoman empire, and many words grew into the turk language? anyway here are a few noticable ones.

 

Tattili/ Tattiliniz = Holiday (turk),,,Tatil/ Tatilat = Holiday (Fars)

Lutfen = Please (Turk),,,, Lutfan = Please (Fars)

Rahat = Comfort (Turk),, Rahat = comfort (Fars)

Yavas, Yavasti = Slow (Turk),, Yavash = Slow (Fars)

The days friday, thurs, and wednesday are the same

Hava = Air/ weather (Turk) ,, Hava/ weather = air (Fars)

Hayvanlar = Animmal (Turk),, Hayvan = Animal (Fars)

Lezzatesi, Lezzat = Pleasurable , pleasure (Turk),, Lezzat = Pleasure (Fars)

Hamam = Bath (Turk),, Hamam = bath (Fars)

Chunke = Because (Turk),,, Chunke = Because (Fars)

 

Those are just some, i can go on for ages, there seems to be a lot of persian words in turkish, there must be many of these words that had turkic origin that moved into the persian language, but it seems they intertwinded, and if i concentrate very hard i can make out sentences nicely, and usually byu knowing a few of the words i can state what the sentence is about and what the guy is talking about. for example--

 

Tatiliniz nasildi? = How was your holiday

Servis cok yavasti = Service was very slow

cok rahati = Very comfortable ,, cok lezzatidi (not sure bout spelling) very comfortable

and i find that very cool, i reckon turkish is easy for persians to learn because the accent is knidof the same and many words are similar which helps alot,, i love the lingo and am trying hard to learn and knowing there are many words i already know to back me up is very pleasing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Janissary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 22:48
Yeep, there plenty of words that first came to the language of Caucasian-Azerbaijan Turks, and then to Ottomans, but before 6-7 century there was  not any or there was very few persian words, but there was many Chinese in Turkish Language
Turk elleri bir-birine yadlanir
Kazak, Qirqiz, Tuekmen, Ozbek adlanir
Azerbaycan yanar, Ichden odlanir,
Ana Yurdun ichden hali duman, heey
Qoca Turkum, dusduyun derd yaman, heeey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 23:31
im wondering , and perhaps fellow persian forumers can help, what words in farsi are come from turkic language? becuase i know persians had an influence in central asia, and turks must have had influence in persian. And also more recently with the turkic dynasties of safavids etc did many words come into farsi? or did they use the farsi language mostly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote šok geš Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 23:44
Originally posted by Arpad Arpad wrote:

Hi im learning turkish and have become amazed at the amout of similar words to persian, i wonder why is this, is it becuase persian was the language of the arts in ottoman empire, and many words grew into the turk language? anyway here are a few noticable ones.

True, a lot of Perisan words has been adopted to the language of Turks espicially during the Seljuk and the Ottoman time. In fact, as far as I remember, the Seljuk was a mixture of Turkish and Persian culture.

Yet, suprisingly those Persian words are of an Arabic origin. That is how the Arabic words entered Turkish. It wasn't through contact with Arabs but rather through the Persian language!

For instance, 80% of the examples you gave Arpad of Persian words that entered Turkish are of an Arabic origin.

Tattili/ Tattiliniz = Holiday (turk),,,Tatil/ Tatilat = Holiday (Fars)> From Arabic Ta'til (to cease doing work or something) & Utlah (Holiday)

Lutfen = Please (Turk),,,, Lutfan = Please (Fars)> From Arabic Luttfan (please)

Rahat = Comfort (Turk),, Rahat = comfort (Fars)>> From Arabic Raha (comfort), Rahat is the plural.

Hava = Air/ weather (Turk) ,, Hava/ weather = air (Fars)> From Arabic Hawa (Air)

Hayvanlar = Animmal (Turk),, Hayvan = Animal (Fars)> From Arabic Haywan (animal) and Haywanat (plural)

Lezzatesi, Lezzat = Pleasurable , pleasure (Turk),, Lezzat = Pleasure (Fars)> From Arabic Lezzah (pleasure) and Lezzat (plural)

Hamam = Bath (Turk),, Hamam = bath (Fars)> from Arabic Hamam

Almost you can say, any Arabic words in Turkish, came through Persian. To answer your question why has this process occurred to the current Turkish language, Wikipedia says:

When the Turks came from middle Asia to Anatolia about a thousand years ago, they came in contact with Islam and the Arabic societies. Since the Turks accepted Islam, Arabic words (and fewer, yet still many, Persian words) started infiltrating the language. During the course of over six hundred years of the Ottoman Empire, Turkish kept borrowing loan words from these two languages. Towards the end of the 19th century, this got to a point where the language was rather called the Ottoman language. This is because Turkish had been inundated with so many loan words that the language became a mix of Turkish, Arabic and Persian. In contemporary Turkey, the Ottoman language is almost incomprehensible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Janissary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 23:56

Seljuk was never mix culture!!!

It was one of pure states that turks founded-or Oguz's

Yea, During Shah Ismail Hatayi, Saffavids state language was Turkish, but After Shah Abbas till Nadir, it was coomonly Persian and that is the main reasons why Ottomans and Azerbaijan turks accepted many words from u. I know that the words that end with ng in my language (except TUFENG) are Persian like Peleng, cheleng, seheng and etc.

Ottomans do not have. That is the main reasion that makes a little different between Azerbaijan turkish and Anatolian'

Over there, Uygur turks, accepted many from China, that is why there are many difference too, And Russian influance is very big

Turk elleri bir-birine yadlanir
Kazak, Qirqiz, Tuekmen, Ozbek adlanir
Azerbaycan yanar, Ichden odlanir,
Ana Yurdun ichden hali duman, heey
Qoca Turkum, dusduyun derd yaman, heeey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote šok geš Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 00:29
Originally posted by Janissary Janissary wrote:

Seljuk was never mix culture!!!

It was one of pure states that turks founded-or Oguz's

No one spoke about ethnicities. It does not matter if Seljuks were Oguz or Ughurs or whatever. Their culture was a mixture culture. In fact, it was more of a Persian Culture. How can someone deny the Seljuk culture was a mixture of Turkic and Persian when the Seljuks themselves spoke Persian and encouraged the Persian culture!

Here, you can learn more about it.

http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/islam/history/seljuks.ht m

The Seljuks were nomads from Turkmenistan who entered the Abbasid empire around 950 AD and gradually converted to Sunni Islam. By 1030 they were beginning to try to get power for themselves, and they soon conquered the Ghaznavids and controlled most of Persia (modern Iran). Their capital was at Isfahan. Like the Ghaznavids, the Seljuks spoke Persian and encouraged Persian culture.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 02:09
Turkish has adopted many words from other languages as well although mostly from Arabic.cok gec is right, those words are arabic tho might be introduced by persians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 05:56

Culturel  mixing began before Seljuks, in the era of Sogdians. You know Sogdian is an Iranic language, and is also similar to Luwian language. Sogdian language was the lingua franca of its own era and was used among all the merchants.  During their travel from Central Asia to Anatolia, Turks married Sogdians and there is also genetical mixture.

The word "ana/anne" in Turkish means "mother" in English. Many Turks think that ■t is a Turkish word. But it doesn't have a Turkish origin. In Hittite and Luwian language "ana" means "mother". Luwian was the lingua franca of the period 2000-1000 BC, and later Sogdian (very similar to Luwian) became the lingua franca. And it is accepted that Turks learnt and began to use this word (and the others) during their relations between Sogdians. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 06:41

arfunda,

the word Anatolia/anadolu is that a greek word or was it takenover by greeks then by Turks?

Also Turkish has more then 14 000 of non Turkic words in it. (i think persian is on the leading then arabic)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rakhsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 08:18

Well this is fine and dany but no offence it matters not if Persian took arabic words and morphed it, arabs took persian words or turks too both, the fact is nationalism is destroying the threads that gives Iranians/Turks/Arabs a chance for peace and commonality.

But very interesting I have no real comments as I am not much of a linguist.



Edited by Rakhsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 08:34
Originally posted by DayI DayI wrote:

arfunda,

the word Anatolia/anadolu is that a greek word or was it takenover by greeks then by Turks?

Bookmark this site, it usually gives correct etymological explanations: http://www.etymonline.com/

Anatolia Look up Anatolia at Dictionary.com
ancient name of Asia Minor, from M.L. Anatolia, from Gk. anatole "the east," originally "sunrise" (which happens in the east), lit. "a rising above (the horizon)," from anatellein "to rise," from ana "up" + tellein "to accomplish, perform."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 09:00

For sure i think turkish has adopted many more persian words, but not 100% sure, and if these words have origins in arabic language, the turks pronounce the words more like the persians pronounce them, rather than arabic pronounciation. Also i have noticed that arabs when speaking english is distinct and you can tell, many things like p words they pronounce b, like polis they say bolis etc. But when persians turks, armenians, and afghans and also iv noticed slavic in balkans speak english the accents of all of them is quite similar which i find interesting. Also i think since persian was used in the arts etc., it got alot of publicity and many words that were making good sense were integrated into the language, But then again it is like all languages today, i dont think there is many languages which have kept its originality these days. I know aboriginal languages might have. I guess it is a bit like spanish having arabic words in it, the same with turkish and persian,, two different lingual tongues (altaic and indo-european) but with many common words. Which i like as it is to my benifit, coz im learning it and many words are easy for me,, and soon i can converse with me mom and grndma and understand what they talk )))

turkce cok cok guzell ..

hosja kalin.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 09:51
Originally posted by Yiannis Yiannis wrote:

Originally posted by DayI DayI wrote:

arfunda,

the word Anatolia/anadolu is that a greek word or was it takenover by greeks then by Turks?

Bookmark this site, it usually gives correct etymological explanations: http://www.etymonline.com/

Anatolia Look up Anatolia at Dictionary.com
ancient name of Asia Minor, from M.L. Anatolia, from Gk. anatole "the east," originally "sunrise" (which happens in the east), lit. "a rising above (the horizon)," from anatellein "to rise," from ana "up" + tellein "to accomplish, perform."
thanks for the link and info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 11:59

Color: Renk (Black: Siyah, Blue: Mavi, Red: K─▒rm─▒z─▒), Week: Hafta (Wednesday: ├çar┼čamba, Thursday: Per┼čembe), Fruit: Meyve & Vegetable: Sebze (Banana: Muz, Date: Hurma, Cucumber: Hiyar, Watermelon: Karpuz), ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 14:06

Cyrus can we do a game-like puzzle? Ill or other Turkic members posts a poem and you will mark the persian words in it?

etc etc = vs vs (vesayre vesayre) --> persian too?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 14:25
Heyy i heard of the english word "Ace" did token from Turkish "As", it has the same meaning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 14:40

Arpad, you are learning Turkish? I thought you spoke it already  or is that Torkish you speak?

Anyway, yes there are many many semitic words in Persian and the loan words started coming from the time of the Achaemenids who actually used Aramaic as the administrative language.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shompis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 16:24
Yavash is a turkish word that was incorporated into persian. Khan is another turkic word. There are by far more persian(i.e. not arabic) words in turkic languages than turkic words in persian.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 16:31
qayeq (boat) is Turkic and related to amerIndian kayak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 17:13

Quote Towards the end of the 19th century, this got to a point where the language was rather called the Ottoman language. This is because Turkish had been inundated with so many loan words that the language became a mix of Turkish, Arabic and Persian. In contemporary Turkey, the Ottoman language is almost incomprehensible.

I dont know how reliable wikipedia is but that isnt accurate. The term "Otytoman language", is a term that everyone mixes with "old Turkish" in AE. Let me explain them briefly again.

Ottoman language, is the name given to the administrative language of the empire, which was classiified with western Turkic dialect (Oguz-Anatolian). IT was just the language of official writings, laws etc., just like the situation of Aramaic in Persian Empire. It was consisted of Turkish grammer and many loan words, almost near the number of original Turkish words. But it was Turkish.

The old Turkish as we reffer to it, is the language that have been spoken by Turks all over the Ottoman Empire, and before that. It is the same dialect with Western Turkic-Oguz, and it is different from the administrative language. It is %90 the same with the modern Istanbulite Turkish that we are still using. It is called the old language juts because it was written with Ottoman-Arabic script.

Persian has lots of Turkish words, not only words but also names such as "Yashar", "Aydin", "Arslan" etc., also Turkish has lots of Persian words and some names like "Faridon", "Gul"," Naz" etc.. Because Turks have learned Islam from Persians, our religious vocabulary is mainly a mix of Persian-Turkish and Arabic.

Seljuk Empire used Persian as the administrative language. Gokturk Empire elites used Sogdian as the administrative one. The fact is that all over history, elites of most cultures (including Persians using Aramaic, Armenians using Persian, Germans using French, Slahaddin using Arabic) was an old, arrogant tradition. Turks were no different than others.

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