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Forum LockedPashtuns or Pathans can be original aryans

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2009 at 20:46
Pushtun are the tribe originally called Afghans in history. These Afghans are known people and each of the clan is known being bound to tribal division. These all people of the Persian Plateau belong to the Aryan class of people. Kurds, Tajik, Afghans are all the branches of Persians that have difference and then cut off status from their Persian racial stock is because of differences of language and more stronger is the difference of Islamic religious sects. Kurds and Afghans being mostly Sunnis have cut apart from the central plateau to side relations with India and Asia minor. Pushto or the language of Afghans and Kurdish are from the Iranian branch of languages. These are all Aryans. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2009 at 01:08
Originally posted by Copperknickers Copperknickers wrote:

Pashtuns could be and almost certainly are part Greek, Persian and British, anyway.
 


Edited by Afghanan - 19-Jan-2009 at 01:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2009 at 21:29
Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

Originally posted by Copperknickers Copperknickers wrote:

Pashtuns could be and almost certainly are part Greek, Persian and British, anyway.
[image]


What?

From various sources including the library of Congress:

"In terms of phenotype, Pashtuns are predominantly a Caucasian people as seen in their skin colour and hair."

"There is evidence of a small Greek contribution to the Pashtun gene pool"

"Three Pakistani populations residing in northern Pakistan, the Burusho, Kalash and Pathan claim descent from Greek soldiers associated with Alexander’s invasion of southwest Asia. Earlier studies have excluded a substantial Greek genetic input into these populations, but left open the question of a smaller contribution. We have now typed 89 binary polymorphisms and 16 multiallelic, short-tandem-repeat (STR) loci mapping to the male-specific portion of the human Y chromosome in 952 males, including 77 Greeks in order to re-investigate this question. In pairwise comparisons between the Greeks and the three Pakistani populations using genetic distance measures sensitive to recent events, the lowest distances were observed between the Greeks and the Pathans. Clade E3b1 lineages, which were frequent in the Greeks but not in Pakistan, were nevertheless observed in two Pathan individuals, one of whom shared a 16 Y-STR haplotype with the Greeks. The worldwide distribution of a shortened (9 Y-STR) version of this haplotype, determined from database information, was concentrated in Macedonia and Greece, suggesting an origin there. Although based on only a few unrelated descendants this provides strong evidence for a European origin for a small proportion of the Pathan Y chromosomes."

"As with most Iranian tribes [the Pashtuns] mixed with the Persians and Indians who ruled them, and there was some examples of Pashtuns and other Afghans intermarrying with British soldiers and occupiers."



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 04:03
Hmmm..... Well Pashtuns don't really like being called a jew, so no I don't think realy that , that theory is true. I read somewhere that Darius the Great send some people to learn the jewish costums so  maybe the pashtuns were those people so they copied some of those costums. Also Pashtuns call themselves Aryans. All the othe tajiks and uzbeks also beleive that the pashtuns are aryans. They are scythians or Sakas. Saka in pashto  means pure. Sakas were An Aryan tribe in Afghanistan they traveled to europe after to what now is Germany hence the whole Aryan thing in Germany. To me Pashtuns look aryan... aryans look semetic thus some people think that maybe PAshtuns are Jews since Jews are semetic. Aryans though are Gentiles and are NOT Jews. THey may have been mixed with Jews because they were a lot of Jews in Afghanistan and Cyrus the Great freed the Jews from the Babylonians so some of them moved to the Persian Empire which at that time Afghanistan was with the Persian Empire. But now a days no one is pure Aryan, Jew, or caucasion every one is mixed with another nation.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 05:09
Aryan have gone for ages, beside the meaning of the Aryan is vague and somehow broad. Therefore we can use Eurasian ancestor as a better alternative.


Edited by Suren - 26-Jan-2009 at 05:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 05:23
Hey Suren, take it easy there. People may make radical claims all the time on the forum, the best thing to do is to try and refute them. One liners like that aren't going to get you far though, they prove nothing and only offer potential trouble based on how someone is going to take your message.
 
Trust me, alot of things get under my skin, I had to walk away from the topic about the Germans being Iranian(which pakhtun incidently mentions too...). When you start to feel upset, you have to take a breather.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 22:02
One thing i have noticed is that people from northern pakistan areas such as Chitral and Balistan are much more fairskinned then pashtuns, many of these people have blonde hair and blue eyes. I dont think pashtuns are aryans or atleast more aryan then these people from northern pakistan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 14:22
Originally posted by arze arze wrote:

One thing i have noticed is that people from northern pakistan areas such as Chitral and Balistan are much more fairskinned then pashtuns, many of these people have blonde hair and blue eyes. I dont think pashtuns are aryans or atleast more aryan then these people from northern pakistan
 
lol People from Baltistan actually look Chinese and speak Balti which is a Sino-Tibetan language.
 
Kalasha of Chitral in northern NWFP surely do look like Pashtuns. There are both white and darker Pashtuns and Kalasha.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 18:24

Aryans are not blondie blue eyes...thats Nazi Germany's narrow-minded view of race.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 19:27
Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

Aryans are not blondie blue eyes...thats Nazi Germany's narrow-minded view of race.

100% Correct. Thank you Afghanan.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2009 at 01:06
Originally posted by Aryan de Pakhtra Aryan de Pakhtra wrote:

Originally posted by arze arze wrote:

One thing i have noticed is that people from northern pakistan areas such as Chitral and Balistan are much more fairskinned then pashtuns, many of these people have blonde hair and blue eyes. I dont think pashtuns are aryans or atleast more aryan then these people from northern pakistan
 
lol People from Baltistan actually look Chinese and speak Balti which is a Sino-Tibetan language.
 
Kalasha of Chitral in northern NWFP surely do look like Pashtuns. There are both white and darker Pashtuns and Kalasha.
people of balistan do not look chinese or atleast all of them. I am taling about northern areas of pakistan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2009 at 04:09
Originally posted by Suren Suren wrote:

Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

Aryans are not blondie blue eyes...thats Nazi Germany's narrow-minded view of race.

100% Correct. Thank you Afghanan.
 
Your welcome.  Now can somebody close these silly posts, or move them to the historical amusement section?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2009 at 13:49
Originally posted by Copperknickers Copperknickers wrote:

Pashtuns could be and almost certainly are part Greek, Persian and British, anyway.
 
Pashtuns are part ancient Macedonians/Illyrians (NOT Greeks) because many soldiers of Alexander the Great settled in Kandahar and Balkh.
 
As for English and Russians, Pashtuns have NO English or Slavic blood.
 
But the reverse is true. In the first millenium BCE, Scythians of Afghanistan conquered Eastern Europe and many settled there. As a result, names of some rivers in eastern Europe are in Pashto such as the Don River (Pashto: dand or in central Pashto dialect: dun).
 
There could have been Afghans also in the British Isles. Some people believe that Fenius Farsa -the mythical ancestor of Irish- was Saka Pashtun.
 


Edited by Aryan de Pakhtra - 28-Jan-2009 at 13:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2009 at 18:17
Originally posted by Aryan de Pakhtra Aryan de Pakhtra wrote:

Originally posted by Copperknickers Copperknickers wrote:

Pashtuns could be and almost certainly are part Greek, Persian and British, anyway.
 
Pashtuns are part ancient Macedonians/Illyrians (NOT Greeks) because many soldiers of Alexander the Great settled in Kandahar and Balkh.
 
As for English and Russians, Pashtuns have NO English or Slavic blood.
 
But the reverse is true. In the first millenium BCE, Scythians of Afghanistan conquered Eastern Europe and many settled there. As a result, names of some rivers in eastern Europe are in Pashto such as the Don River (Pashto: dand or in central Pashto dialect: dun).
 
There could have been Afghans also in the British Isles. Some people believe that Fenius Farsa -the mythical ancestor of Irish- was Saka Pashtun.
 

What? The Scythians were Aryans, from the Steppes, not Afghanistan. Those 'Pashtun' names were brought to Afghanistan by the Aryans from the north. And i said Greeks because i meant Greeks. Many Greeks such as Athenians are noted as living in India and Pakistan. We know this because not only did they write many things themselves, but historians such as Herodotus also mention them. Take 'Indika', by Megasthenes. Megasthenes was certainly not a Macedonian or Illyrian.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2009 at 03:40
"Copperknickers" or "Afghanan" wrote:
Quote
Pashtuns could be and almost certainly are part Greek, Persian and British, anyway.



Ali's reply:
The Indians lived under British rule for about two hundred years. Somehow, the Indians are not particularly British-looking [and vice versa, the British are not particularly Bengali-looking...at least as far as I can tell]. The Pathans [Pashtuns] who actually defeated the British and the Indians, have even less resemblance to either of them. Recent genetic testing also disproves any link between Greeks and Pashtuns.

As for your "Greek descendants," perhaps you should look to the Persians, Tajiks or Indians who actually lived under Greco-Macedonian domination for a while (unlike the fiercely independent Pashtuns).

The Greco-Bactrians had control of the Tajiks (Bactrians) while the Seleucids ruled the Persians.


Quote
What?

From various sources including the library of Congress:

"In terms of phenotype, Pashtuns are predominantly a Caucasian people as seen in their skin colour and hair."



The Pathans/Pashtuns have sharper Caucasian features than most Europeans, and are likely to be the original Aryans, something which Europeans clearly are not. Europeans primarily tend to have rounder, broader noses and broader heads of the Slavic or Celtic variety (non-Aryan)

Aside from the Normans, the Dutch and a few others, very few Europeans have such strong Caucasian features as the Pathans. Genetic evidence shows that the migration of the Aryans was from Asia to Europe. The Dutch, and to some extent, the Normans, do seem to have a close physical resemblance to Pashtuns. For example, many of the Dutch have thin, prominent noses, thin faces and are Dolichocephalic ("long-headed"). The Normans (both Franco-Norman and Anglo-Norman) also have these traits to a significant degree.

These particular groups (especially the Dutch) have a close resemblance to Pashtuns. Most other Europeans do not.


Quote
"There is evidence of a small Greek contribution to the Pashtun gene pool"


Very questionable "evidence" at best.


Quote
"Three Pakistani populations residing in northern Pakistan, the Burusho, Kalash and Pathan claim descent from Greek soldiers associated with Alexander’s invasion of southwest Asia. Earlier studies have excluded a substantial Greek genetic input into these populations, but left open the question of a smaller contribution. We have now typed 89 binary polymorphisms and 16 multiallelic, short-tandem-repeat (STR) loci mapping to the male-specific portion of the human Y chromosome in 952 males, including 77 Greeks in order to re-investigate this question. In pairwise comparisons between the Greeks and the three Pakistani populations using genetic distance measures sensitive to recent events, the lowest distances were observed between the Greeks and the Pathans. Clade E3b1 lineages, which were frequent in the Greeks but not in Pakistan, were nevertheless observed in two Pathan individuals, one of whom shared a 16 Y-STR haplotype with the Greeks. The worldwide distribution of a shortened (9 Y-STR) version of this haplotype, determined from database information, was concentrated in Macedonia and Greece, suggesting an origin there. Although based on only a few unrelated descendants this provides strong evidence for a European origin for a small proportion of the Pathan Y chromosomes."


The Greeks have 9 Y-STR. Your report quoted above does not mention any Pashtun having this. A previous DNA report effectively disproved any Greek link.

Quote
"As with most Iranian tribes [the Pashtuns] mixed with the Persians and Indians who ruled them, and there was some examples of Pashtuns and other Afghans intermarrying with British soldiers and occupiers."


Pashtuns were never ruled by Indians or Persian or Greeks. The Seleucids and Greco-Bactrians never had control of the Pashtun mountains which were outside of their territories (check their maps). The Mauryans (Indian Empire) had about as much control of the Paktue mountains as the Pakistan government or the British Empire ever could have had (i.e. no real control at all...even if they included it in their maps). To this day, the tribesmen don't even recognize the Durand border boundary, which is a source of some amusement to them, if they notice it at all.

By the way, there's a fairly noticeable number of Indo-Pakistani men marrying English women in England (with significant divorce rates and child custody issues too) and this has been going on for a while now. Would you suggest that the English are now an Indo-South-Asian race because of that?
Good "luck" with that "theory"... I guess you'll need it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 11:54

As far as skin colour is concerned Chitralis and Pashtuns are almost identical.

Light hair and blue eyes are more common amongst the Chitralis though. It is the facial features which distinguish the Chitralis (Khow and Kalash) from the Pashtuns.
 
The Khow of Chitral have very distinct features which even set them apart from other Khowar speakers (Ghizer, Yasin, Ishkoman) in the Northern Areas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 12:43
Thank you all for participating in this thread.
Everyone have had their say, so let's move on to more urgent and important matters.
 
Thread closed.
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