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Forum LockedPakistanis and Indians same?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 17:57
Wel apparently Pakhtuns did have enough "to do with it" that the Khybar Union would be the ones who would publish the first phamphlet calling for Pakistan.
 
 
 
And then there were men who were the leaders of Pakistan Movement
 
Sardar Abdul Rab Nishtar
 
Yusaf Khattak
 
and his brother
 
and of course Sher-e-Sarhad, old double barrel
 
 
 
And since independance
Pakistan's commanders in all her wars
 
'48 Akbar Khan
 
'65 Ayub Khan (Pres)
 
'65 Gul Hasan Khan Director Military Operations
 
also Chief of General Staff in 1965 was a Pakhtun from Swabi, Gen Sher Bahadur.
 
'71
CGS Gul Hasan
 
war on terror
Alam Khattak
 Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee
 
 
 
Air Chiefs, the doyen of PAF himself, the great Air Marshal Asghar Khan
 
Air Chief Marshal Abbas Khattak
 
 
 
 
 
 
Pir of Manki Sharif
 
 
All of these, would probably disagree with you about Pakistan.
 
 
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 23:06
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

Wel apparently Pakhtuns did have enough "to do with it" that the Khybar Union would be the ones who would publish the first phamphlet calling for Pakistan.
 
 
 
And then there were men who were the leaders of Pakistan Movement
 
Sardar Abdul Rab Nishtar
 
Yusaf Khattak
 
and his brother
 
and of course Sher-e-Sarhad, old double barrel
 
 
 
And since independance
Pakistan's commanders in all her wars
 
'48 Akbar Khan
 
'65 Ayub Khan (Pres)
 
'65 Gul Hasan Khan Director Military Operations
 
also Chief of General Staff in 1965 was a Pakhtun from Swabi, Gen Sher Bahadur.
 
'71
CGS Gul Hasan
 
war on terror
Alam Khattak
 Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee
 
 
 
 
Air Chiefs, the doyen of PAF himself, the great Air Marshal Asghar Khan
 
 
Air Chief Marshal Abbas Khattak
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
All of these, would probably disagree with you about Pakistan.
 
 
 
 

When bulk of Pashtons and Afghans were busy fighting British in 3 bloody Anglo-Afghan wars…there were some Afridi and Khatak lapdogs faithfully serving Sahaab.

 
 
 
 

I don’t see any difference between the Ghadaars you mention that that pic above...they all betray their people, country, culture and language in return for personal gain.

One thing if you notice about these people you mention…actually about all the ruling elite of Pakistan is that they or their fathers has faithfully served the British against their people.

While Ghandi, Abdul Ghafar Khan, Nehro and other freedom movement leaders were thrown in and out of British Raj Jails you "founding" father Ali Jahna enjoyed a prestige life in London and never ever in his life were imprisoned by British.



Edited by True Afghan - 03-Apr-2008 at 23:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 23:14
Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:



You don't deserve a reply all i have to say is enjoy you daal hallucination. LOL 

 

The problem of region is because of lack of identity of punjabi Muslim...can you name me a single punjabi that you can base you identity or history on? ha? Ranjit Sing? he was a "Kafir" Sikh. lol




So you can't answer my question I knew it. You yourself clearly said that race/culture was the reason for a "greater afghanistan" but I showed you that you are not all one race very very clearly. So since Afghanistan believes in unions based of phenotype why don't you guys split yourself into three pieces? Hazarajat, Khorasan and Pakhtunkhwa(but only for Irano-Afghan pashtuns). Actually make it 4 pieces cuz I think Uzbekistan wants a piece of you too.  Why should I name any punjabis, this has nothing to do with punjab. I could name dozens of them if I really cared but this discussion is not about punjabistan it is about Afghanistan invading Pakistan and annexing territory. Stick to the topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 23:22
Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:

 

When bulk of Pashtons and Afghans were busy fighting British in 3 bloody Anglo-Afghan wars…there were some Afridi and Khatak lapdogs faithfully serving Sahaab.

 
 
 
 

I don’t see any different then these Ghadaar and those in above pic that betray their people, country, culture and language in return for personal gain.

One thing if you notice these people you mention…actually about all the ruling elite of Pakistan is that they or their fathers has faithfully served the British against their people.



How about your favorite ghaddars here then:



BTW why did you stop promoting union of greater afghanistan based on race? Keep going with that topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 23:24
Originally posted by maqsad maqsad wrote:

Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:



You don't deserve a reply all i have to say is enjoy you daal hallucination. LOL 

 

The problem of region is because of lack of identity of punjabi Muslim...can you name me a single punjabi that you can base you identity or history on? ha? Ranjit Sing? he was a "Kafir" Sikh. lol




So you can't answer my question I knew it. You yourself clearly said that race/culture was the reason for a "greater afghanistan" but I showed you that you are not all one race very very clearly. So since Afghanistan believes in unions based of phenotype why don't you guys split yourself into three pieces? Hazarajat, Khorasan and Pakhtunkhwa(but only for Irano-Afghan pashtuns). Actually make it 4 pieces cuz I think Uzbekistan wants a piece of you too.  Why should I name any punjabis, this has nothing to do with punjab. I could name dozens of them if I really cared but this discussion is not about punjabistan it is about Afghanistan invading Pakistan and annexing territory. Stick to the topic.
 

The reason I did not reply is because you are high on Paan(stop putting Chona on you paan...its not good for ur health)LOL. The only thing you show about Afghan race is that you are really uneducated when it comes anthropology…don’t tell me you learn these about Afghan people in one of those pakistani Madrassa? Or maybe in one of those schools were official history starts with Ghaznvid invading and then ends with partition of Hindustan.  

The fact still remains that there is only two race in Afghanistan… Afghanian race and Mongol…there are a few Gujar(Indic) but the percentage is insignificant. In term of culture...there is Iranic culture and Turko-mongol...but then the Turko-mongol are less then 15% so they don't count. Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 23:27
Originally posted by maqsad maqsad wrote:

Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:

 

When bulk of Pashtons and Afghans were busy fighting British in 3 bloody Anglo-Afghan wars…there were some Afridi and Khatak lapdogs faithfully serving Sahaab.

 
 
 
 

I don’t see any different then these Ghadaar and those in above pic that betray their people, country, culture and language in return for personal gain.

One thing if you notice these people you mention…actually about all the ruling elite of Pakistan is that they or their fathers has faithfully served the British against their people.



How about your favorite ghaddars here then:



BTW why did you stop promoting union of greater afghanistan based on race? Keep going with that topic.
 

These are just Ghadaar...while the one he mentions are Ghadaar dar Ghadaar...Jad dar Jad Ghadar den o Watanfrosh. Whom are still faithfully serving Sahaab's interest in region. Over all as the Dari saying goes.. Na kal banad na Kado Khaak dar saree Har Do… may god curse be on Both! Lol LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 23:44
Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:

 

These are just Ghadaar...while the one he mentions are Ghadaar dar Ghadaar...Jad dar Jad Ghadar den o Watanfrosh. Whom are still faithfully serving Sahaab's interest in region. Over all as the Dari saying goes.. Na kal banad na Kado Khaak dar saree Har Do… may god curse be on Both! Lol LOL



Dude, don't speak so badly of your anglo-american masters who have recently whipped you into submission with nukes. After all, if your leaders obey them now like faithful puppies(unlike pakis who actually differ in policy from NATO).  Also come on, we know the only chance in hell Afghanistan has of annoying pakistan is to become a puppet of NATO, right? So be polite to your masters, you need them. Wink

Also, why have you suddenly gone quiet on the Irano-Afghan race LOL. Here look at a typical Kandahar scene:




Now look at a couple of Peshawar scenes:


^^ Does that guy look like a typical paki, or an Irano-Afghan? LOL

Here, check these guys out below with a banner with a picture of Ahmad Shah Baba(the multani who created your country)



Another scene from the same rally:



A speaker:




LOL dude..I need you to explain this Irano-Afghan race to me again cuz it looks like Pakistan should annex some lands back from Afghanistan. We will leave the Hazaras, Kandahar and the Afghano-Iranis areas but we want our own lands back.  What do you think?







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In other words, any Pashtuns who dose not follow True 's theorys is a "ghaddar" (traitor). Interesting. Also cut out the personal attacks against Maqsad, debate him politely otherwise you are out of here.

The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2008 at 10:51
Aren't Afghan's just a form of proto-Turk?
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Just? No no no. Afghans are a form of proto-Turk, proto-Scandinavian, proto-Slav, proto-Persian and of course proto-Mongolian all at the same time. If it weren't for Afghans, civilization as we know it just would not exist. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 00:51
it seems ''True Afghan'' has drowned himself in hatred and propoganda against the country Pakistan...  Ironic though very much 'cliche' and true to the stereotype in Pakistan that Afghans are ungrateful and will spread their hatred to wherever they go.. I for one disagree with stereotypes and know of many enlightened and so called ''True'' Afghans who would beg to differ with his views.  I also have many friends from Afghanistan who respect me for who i am and I respect them in turn and we, for the most part, tend to agree on most issues.
 
Also, The Tribal areas are not under any duress or subjugation, they could have opted for any country they wanted to in all these years but have chosen, integrated and in fact in many spheres, come to dominated many aspects of Pakistan's economy etc...
 
Its funny cuz when I go on some other forums, i have Afghans arguing with me that I should be proud of my ''Afghan'' heritage being that im from Khyber Agency and then they try to convince me not to be proud of my country (Pakistan).. i guess it explains a lot when one considers that Afghanistan always remains in a state of turmoil or switches from one extreme to another.  The irony is that, Afghanistan as a modern political state is just over a hundred and some odd years older than Pakistan whereby it created a political and national culture.  Add to that the word Afghan is synonymous with Pashtuns and then you have another paradox, there are more Pashtuns in Pakistan hence the reason why in Afghanistan some use the word Afghanistani to denote non-Pashtun's.  The most interesting point of all, why i find truly hilarious as True Afghan pointed out his comical joke about Peshawers ''Kharian'' --Ta bande, ma bande speakers, say what you want of them as they are also made fun of here in Pakistan, but in the end, they have learned the Pashto language in their own way, and are not considered Pashtoon to this day, but we do respect the fact that they try to speak our language however comical; but what i dont understand, is a quasi-ma bande-ta bande individual by the name of ''Ahmed Shah Abdali'' from the now Pakistani Panjabi city of Multan is the one who united various and dispering Afghan, Turk, Farsiwan tribes to establish the nation state of Afghanistan.
 
Pakistan, according to Allama Iqbal, was made for the ''Muslims of the North West of South Asia'', that was his belief, if you read up on some of his sayings, he often stated that the Musalmans of Central and Eastern South Asia were intermixed and culturally indian while those of the North West still had a good chance of maintaining their culture, identity and consequently their future.
 
The idea of including Bangladesh in the demand was not his plan either, nor was the influx of large numbers of indian muslim refugess from india who were more often than not, butchered and slaughtered out of their homes; interestingly, as most of Pakistan was predominantly Muslim there never really was any antagonism to non-Muslims as they were always a minority and usually protected.  Upon the arrival of millions of traumatized urdu-speaking refugees to Pakistan, they immediately turned their rage/anger out on Pakistan's native non-Muslims who were sent fleeing in the opposite direction.  In some cases, particularly in Sindh, many hindu's were 'enticed' to go to india.
 
I disagree that the ''raison d'etre'' for Pakistan was for Muslims in india, but rather as per Allama Iqbal's saying, was meant for the Muslims of the North West regions of South Asia in order that they can maintain their unique indentity.  Allama-Iqbal went even further in believing that Pakistan should also regroup with Afghanistan and that the people(s) of the new nation work towards a progressive society and work together to establish a modern political and progressive nation.
 
Again, whatever issues people have, Pakistan is a proud multi-ethnic nation, that is progressing to complete the dream of becoming a strong, progressive and stable democracy.  There will be hurdles to face, and many people used to hatred, instability who will never be happy may rant against it, but the fact of the matter is, the country is a land of opportunity, blessed with bountless resources, and a genuine uniqueness that cannot be found in either of its surrounding country, possibly the reason why, they often try to claim parts of it as its own.  But as the many native Pakistani's numbering some 170 million individuals (Pashtuns, Panjabi, SIndhis, Balochis, Giligitis etc..) have shown in the past 60 years, they will never accept  that labelization.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 21:24
Originally posted by MarcoPolo MarcoPolo wrote:

it seems ''True Afghan'' has drowned himself in hatred and propoganda against the country Pakistan...  Ironic though very much 'cliche' and true to the stereotype in Pakistan that Afghans are ungrateful and will spread their hatred to wherever they go.. I for one disagree with stereotypes and know of many enlightened and so called ''True'' Afghans who would beg to differ with his views.  I also have many friends from Afghanistan who respect me for who i am and I respect them in turn and we, for the most part, tend to agree on most issues.
 

I did said you are entitle to your opinion...but then your opinion do not matter much for you are just an individual...you views are representative of Pashtons of occupation pashtonistan as the view of OBL is that of Muslims. Indeed you need to realize that Afghan nationalism in pashonistan is not dead. What happened over the years is that the Pakistani conveniently nurtured in its place an Islamic Nationalism, which defied geographic boundaries among Muslims.(radicalization of Pashton youth in Pakistais run Madrassa) This way, they entered an alliance with the old Pashton yearning for unity with their brethren in their father/mother land—-Afghanistan, while keeping the rest of Pakistan intact…hence the Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan. It was a clever ploy on the part of Islamabad, but it always remained vulnerable to a re-emergence of Afghan nationalism.

 
Quote
Also, The Tribal areas are not under any duress or subjugation, they could have opted for any country they wanted to in all these years but have chosen, integrated and in fact in many spheres, come to dominated many aspects of Pakistan's economy etc...
 
Shocked 

 

no there is no political agent... there is no collective punishment...no there is no Pakistani state funded Maddrassa… NO-- the secular Political parties are not banned from FATA. You are trying to make a false point..it seems like you are emotionally attach I might have touched a nerves or something.

The fact is that Taliban and their like are result of Pakistani state design against pashtons… you need to ask youself a simple question where those the motivation for that ideology of Taliban comes from? … Deobandi School of Thought? and many others of the type, Paki state-funded mufties, and Paki State sponsored Mullahs? Where this religious ideology comes from? Do you know that all these things are not indigenous to the Pashtons at all? Pashtons being a proud nation/ethnicity with history going back thousand of years do not need a religious identity. In other words the use of religion as a means for acquiring political power either in Afghanistan or in Pakistan. In fact the crisis of identity is with the Panjabi state Pakistan..which needs religion to bind it together in the absence of any meaningful contract between the various groups for a collective well being of all its citizens.

 
 
Quote
Its funny cuz when I go on some other forums, i have Afghans arguing with me that I should be proud of my ''Afghan'' heritage being that im from Khyber Agency and then they try to convince me not to be proud of my country (Pakistan).. i guess it explains a lot when one considers that Afghanistan always remains in a state of turmoil or switches from one extreme to another.  The irony is that, Afghanistan as a modern political state is just over a hundred and some odd years older than Pakistan whereby it created a political and national culture. 
 
LOL 

 

Afghanistan status as buffer state(what you call "modern afghan state") signifies what was left of Afghan empire drawn by the blood of her own people... we are not a artificial fake state bestow as result of more then 200 faithful servitude to Saheeb(Parangees).    

The reason Afghanistan has been in turmoil is because of division of Afghanistan and pashtonistan...as long as the forward police of Kafir Saheeb is carried by brown Saheeb under FATA and PATA there will be no peace in Afghanistan. As long as the filth of Durrand and Dewband is around there will be more turmoil! 

Now as for as what you call yourself or not.. .as i said you only present yourself--an individual but if you are indeed  from Khyber Agency--FATA then open your identity card(Shenakhtee Pas) your ethnic and race are written as Afghan!  Big%20smileOuch   

Now you can wear Dahto, dance Bangra, speak Indic and eat Daal and spicy food… and even call yourself proud Mexican for all I care.  

 
 
 
Quote
Add to that the word Afghan is synonymous with Pashtuns and then you have another paradox, there are more Pashtuns in Pakistan hence the reason why in Afghanistan some use the word Afghanistani to denote non-Pashtun's.   
 

 

It seems like you have very limited knowledge of history.. the word afghan does not mean Pashton.. in fact Afghan is Sanskrit ---Avagana which means knight or horseman..it was much later when pashton refer to themselves as Afghan.

Here is what great Fardawsi says about Afghan.

 

"Their commander was Qaran Kawgaan

And generals Sheroi and Awgaan.

                                               (Shah-Nama 1-110)

 

The mighty soldiers had gathered around the castle,

Armed with golden cudgels and golden helmets,

Their commander was Qaran Kawgaan,

 

Led by the valiant general, Awgaan".

 

                                              (Shah-Nama 1-116)

 

 
Quote
The most interesting point of all, why i find truly hilarious as True Afghan pointed out his comical joke about Peshawers ''Kharian'' --Ta bande, ma bande speakers, say what you want of them as they are also made fun of here in Pakistan, but in the end, they have learned the Pashto language in their own way, and are not considered Pashtoon to this day, but we do respect the fact that they try to speak our language however comical; but what i dont understand, is a quasi-ma bande-ta bande individual by the name of ''Ahmed Shah Abdali'' from the now Pakistani Panjabi city of Multan is the one who united various and dispering Afghan, Turk, Farsiwan tribes to establish the nation state of Afghanistan.
 

 

Pashto is just a language.. knowing a language does not mean one is from that particular nation/ethnic.. if that was the cause then today millions of African, Indic(Indian and Pakistan) whom speak English as first language would be called Anglo.  Now your cheap shot at his majesty Ahmad Shah baba is well understood...indeed you should read Punjabi Waris shah poems on how the Punjabis viewed Ahmed shah baba... that is even if we forget about Ahmad Shah baba being a red blooded Pashton who was born in Punjab because his father was governor of Multan.  

 
 
Quote
Pakistan, according to Allama Iqbal, was made for the ''Muslims of the North West of South Asia'', that was his belief, if you read up on some of his sayings, he often stated that the Musalmans of Central and Eastern South Asia were intermixed and culturally indian while those of the North West still had a good chance of maintaining their culture, identity and consequently their future..
 
 

Iqbal died years before Pakistan come to being... but no reasonable person can deny the fact that Pakistan was created for Muslim of Hindustan---a tlest that is what the Angrees said on paper.

 

 
 
Quote  
The idea of including Bangladesh in the demand was not his plan either, nor was the influx of large numbers of indian muslim refugess from india who were more often than not, butchered and slaughtered out of their homes; interestingly, as most of Pakistan was predominantly Muslim there never really was any antagonism to non-Muslims as they were always a minority and usually protected.  Upon the arrival of millions of traumatized urdu-speaking refugees to Pakistan, they immediately turned their rage/anger out on Pakistan's native non-Muslims who were sent fleeing in the opposite direction.  In some cases, particularly in Sindh, many hindu's were 'enticed' to go to india...
  

 

As a Muslim we need to be truthful.. so lets face it.. during partition more then 38% of population of Pakistan was Hindu---today 60 years later its just 2 percent... and look at Hindustan---there are more Muslim in India then Pakistan itself. That means the two nation theory---that Hindus and Muslim are two different nations which was base for creation of Pakistan—a country for Hindustan’s Muslim has failed miserably.

 ...
Quote   
I disagree that the ''raison d'etre'' for Pakistan was for Muslims in india, but rather as per Allama Iqbal's saying, was meant for the Muslims of the North West regions of South Asia in order that they can maintain their unique indentity.  Allama-Iqbal went even further in believing that Pakistan should also regroup with Afghanistan and that the people(s) of the new nation work towards a progressive society and work together to establish a modern political and progressive nation....
  

Google "Two nation theory".. tons has been written about it before partition. i Simple have no time to educate you about it.

 
Quote   
Again, whatever issues people have, Pakistan is a proud multi-ethnic nation, that is progressing to complete the dream of becoming a strong, progressive and stable democracy. 
 

What progressive and strong and stable democracy you are talking about? Pakistan is owned by the Army corporation—20 billion dollar/year accoridng to recent book by this pakistani lady(Can not recall her name.)

Indeed even those Faqir punjabi and Sindi.. are kept backward under federalism, tribalism and most interestingly of all caste system---rape of Mokhtar Maia as example.

 

 
Quote   
 
There will be hurdles to face, and many people used to hatred, instability who will never be happy may rant against it, but the fact of the matter is, the country is a land of opportunity, blessed with bountless resources, and a genuine uniqueness that cannot be found in either of its surrounding country, possibly the reason why, they often try to claim parts of it as its own.  But as the many native Pakistani's numbering some 170 million individuals (Pashtuns, Panjabi, SIndhis, Balochis, Giligitis etc..) have shown in the past 60 years, they will never accept  that labelization.
 

 

Yea so are the people in FATA whom blow the head of Punjabi solider execution style... so are those Baloch have raised against brown Saheeb more then 3 times in less then 60 years... so are Sindis... so are Saraki and those poor "dark skin" Bangalis which the servant of Saheeb would abuse by calling them unfit to serve in army.(martial race). 

The fact is its not question of if…but more when pakistan will break out.. the sooner you realize it the better it will be for you.



Edited by True Afghan - 11-Apr-2008 at 21:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 22:31

Pashtunistan of Afghan nationalists is a pipe dream. Pakistan is a reality.

 
NWFP people are not particularly fond of their "brethern" as it is. Even a nationalist party the ones "True" Afghan  has so many hopes in, want the Afghans out
 
 
 
Incidentally, National ID Card is silent on a persons ethnicity. And those "Punjabi" soldiers you hate so much and whose death you cheer were not Punjabi at all. The were from a Pakhtun regiment. Here is another brave Pakhtun who gave his life for Pakistan against terror.
 
 
 
 
And while we are at it the 38% figure is bogus, since it dose not take into account the movement of peoples from India to Pak and vice versa and is only true if you add all of undivided Punjab, a third of Punjab is now in India. UP, Bihar ,Delhi were majority muslim and are no longer that, why migration.
 
 
 
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 20:28
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

Pashtunistan of Afghan nationalists is a pipe dream. Pakistan is a reality.

 
NWFP people are not particularly fond of their "brethern" as it is. Even a nationalist party the ones "True" Afghan  has so many hopes in, want the Afghans out
 
 
Incidentally, National ID Card is silent on a persons ethnicity. And those "Punjabi" soldiers you hate so much and whose death you cheer were not Punjabi at all. The were from a Pakhtun regiment. Here is another brave Pakhtun who gave his life for Pakistan against terror.
 
 
 
 

Khatak being a true Afghan nationalist knows that these poor Afghan refugee nurtured in Pakistani refugee ghettos and indoctrinated in Pakistani immoral “madrassahs” so to wage Pakistani’s coward nations wars against India and Afghanistan…thus in order to break the Pakistani state murderous culture of Jahad it is a must that the refugee ghettos must be closed. All afghan nationalist want the to brea the unholy influences of Pakistani Madrassah on our village people. This idea is nothing knew.. during 1920s Afghan king Ghazi Ammanullah Khan banned Dewbandi education mullah from Afghan mosque.. a new Maddrasa was established in north of Kabul to train new mullahs.

 

 

Here is what ANP chief AsfandYar Wali Khan says about his Afghan heritage.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGSt5g8ltw4&feature=related

 

 

Rough translation….

 

“Qazi Hussan Ahmad told Mushraf in front of me that ANP statets that “Lar aw bar Yaw Afghan” Upper and lower all one Afghan(Peshware and Kabul all one Afghan) Musharaf told me  is it true… I told him General Saheeb off course its true...I do believe Lar aw Bar yaw Afghan and then I Musrhaf to ask Qazi Hussan Ahmad and Mullawi FazilRahman that when the buy a land…or a new home in the paper work when it ask for their ethnic/race what they put? Mushraf ask me what it written.. I told him to ask Qazi Hussan Ahmad why you are asking me.. Qazi Hussan Ahmad did not answer but Mullawi Fazilrahman said the ethnic/race is written by Pashton as Afghan.”

  

 

 

 
Quote
And while we are at it the 38% figure is bogus, since it dose not take into account the movement of peoples from India to Pak and vice versa and is only true if you add all of undivided Punjab, a third of Punjab is now in India. UP, Bihar ,Delhi were majority muslim and are no longer that, why migration.
  

The point is that we Muslim are more prejudice comparing to Hindus.. if it was not the case then there would be more Hindus in PakistanLahore city and all the treading and business were owned by Hindu before partition. even Peshawar city business were own by Hindu…but today you do not find many of them. while in Hindu India…Muslim are well off.



Edited by True Afghan - 12-Apr-2008 at 20:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 20:35
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

Pashtunistan of Afghan nationalists is a pipe dream. Pakistan is a reality.

 
NWFP people are not particularly fond of their "brethern" as it is. Even a nationalist party the ones "True" Afghan  has so many hopes in, want the Afghans out
 
 
 
Incidentally, National ID Card is silent on a persons ethnicity. And those "Punjabi" soldiers you hate so much and whose death you cheer were not Punjabi at all. The were from a Pakhtun regiment. Here is another brave Pakhtun who gave his life for Pakistan against terror.
 
 
 
 
And while we are at it the 38% figure is bogus, since it dose not take into account the movement of peoples from India to Pak and vice versa and is only true if you add all of undivided Punjab, a third of Punjab is now in India. UP, Bihar ,Delhi were majority muslim and are no longer that, why migration.
 
 
 
 

You make it sound as if we in Afghanistan are greedy and want a part of our neighbors land!

In fact this is why some Pakistani writers cry for Afghanistan were the only nation that voted against Pakistan UN membership… while shamefully completely ignoring that fact that Pakistan is not a new Muslim country but successor of Afghanistan's number one enemy bloody British.  The fact is that we simple want what is rightful ours… we have no beef with Indic Muslims in fact we have always acted as their protector against Hindus but then we simple can not allow subjection of our people and occupation of our land in the name of Islam. Pashtonistan is rightfully ours and sooner or later we will have it back!

 

 

 


Edited by True Afghan - 12-Apr-2008 at 20:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 20:39
And if you think we are going to aquiese in the breakup of our country then you have another thing coming.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koshur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2008 at 03:15
From a lot of posts that I've read, some posters of Iranian/Afghan origins tend to put Pakistan/India and its people down a lot, and give the impression that they think that Pakistanis/Indians are inferior to them. All I'd like to say to those people is that, I pity you and pray to God that he makes your small hearted, narrow minded souls more open, peaceful and accepting of others.

Also, contrary to what some one said earlier, Dardic people are not Irano-Afghan.






Edited by Koshur - 16-Jul-2008 at 13:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Copperknickers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 00:09
Originally posted by MarcoPolo MarcoPolo wrote:

Originally posted by maqsad maqsad wrote:

Pakistanis and neighbouring "Indians" are the same genetically and linguistically.
 
To say they are the ''same'' is a false generalization and is the twisting of the truth and actual facts.  In fact, many would find such a statement offensive, insulting, hurtful and an outright fabrication and distortion of truth that are often promoted by extremist, nationalistic, hardline indian groups.  I think the moderators should warn maqsad or anyone else from making such insensitive statements.
 


Cool down, my good fellow. To say that neighbouring countries with the same history (up until 60 years ago) and linguistic heritage are similar in genetic make up is hardly an extremist insult. The only problem i have with it is that there is no such thing as 'Indian', or 'Pakistani' for that matter. Both the Punjab and NW India area and Baluchistan area were close to each other, and the ancient empires did not differentiate between none existant borders. Rajputana encompassed both NW India and the Indus delta in Pakistan. Greek Scythian, Persian, and Muslim kingdoms ruled both, and had impacts on the areas.

But of course there are differences as well, Pakistan is of course Muslim, and has been in part for almost 1000 years, since some of the Rajput kingdoms there converted. But then so were the Ghorids and Mughals, and they conquered not only Pakistan but North India as well. West Pakistan has many tribal ethnicities such as the Pashtuns which are not found in India.

But it is equally foolish to say that all similarities end at the virtual 50 year old border (not even a human lifespan, so hardly a judge for genetic make up), as it is to say that Pakistan and India are the same country for all but political purposes, as there are marked differences. The fact of the matter is, countries and faiths are rarely anything to do with ethnic groups and the area's history on the whole, and where such a huge country as India is concerned, there can be no solid border to define this question, one thing just gradually fades into the other the further you go away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jan-2009 at 21:55
Originally posted by Copperknickers Copperknickers wrote:

Originally posted by MarcoPolo MarcoPolo wrote:

Originally posted by maqsad maqsad wrote:

Pakistanis and neighbouring "Indians" are the same genetically and linguistically.
 
To say they are the ''same'' is a false generalization and is the twisting of the truth and actual facts.  In fact, many would find such a statement offensive, insulting, hurtful and an outright fabrication and distortion of truth that are often promoted by extremist, nationalistic, hardline indian groups.  I think the moderators should warn maqsad or anyone else from making such insensitive statements.
 


Cool down, my good fellow.
 
Im quite cool, thanks :) was just stating how many people in Pakistan and even historians/archeologists(international) feel about this issue.
 
. Both the Punjab and NW India area and Baluchistan area were close to each other, and the ancient empires did not differentiate between none existant borders.
 
No and Yes, many empires had borders roughly equivalent to the current Pakistan border with india.  Eg.  Persian, Greek, Afghan Empire.  There is a natural dessert that runs from the south(Sindh) upto Panjab that was a natural boundary between the two and Panjab was criss-crossed by various river boundaries and mountains in the north which led to differing cultural and historical impacts of the mentioned regions.  Sure both countries where also conquered by various foreign based empires as well.  Cultural/commercial exchange definately existed between the regions
 
Greek Scythian, Persian, and Muslim kingdoms ruled both, and had impacts on the areas.

West Pakistan has many tribal ethnicities such as the Pashtuns which are not found in India.
 
west Pakistan?? correction,  its Pakistan :) there are other groups as well besides the Pashtun, Baloch, Kohistani, Chitrali, Shinha, Hazara, Kharian etc...found only in Pakistan. even within the groups that are shared(eg. Panjabi), there are differences as well(Landha dialect of Pakistan etc..) and in india this group represents less than 3% of india's overall population, hardly reflective of indians in general but often over-stated and over-simplified.  In saying that, as a result of being jointly conquered by various rulers under common administrations(Central Asian-Mughals, Turk(Ghauri), British) and living in such close proximaty, some similarities did develop.   Also with political issues, Pakistan's absorption of 5 million ''Muhajirs'' and the subsequent departure of Sikh/Hindu Panjabi/Sindhi's.  Point of many people on this forum, is the context in which the term is used, often by many for malicious agenda and in direct negation of Pakistan's unique identity and own distinct history, which it definately has.

But it is equally foolish to say that all similarities end at the virtual 50 year old border (not even a human lifespan, so hardly a judge for genetic make up), as it is to say that Pakistan and India are the same country for all but political purposes, as there are marked differences. The fact of the matter is, countries and faiths are rarely anything to do with ethnic groups and the area's history on the whole, and where such a huge country as India is concerned, there can be no solid border to define this question, one thing just gradually fades into the other the further you go away.
 
There are some overlaps, agreed, whenever regions are in proximaty to one another, its natural and in the region of South Asia, many foreign rulers (Central Asian, European etc...) exerted control over a vast region involving many of the now modern political entities such Pakistan, india and afghanistan.   I think a healthier discourse on the issue while acknowledging and factoring in the uniqueness and distinctive of each would prevent such confusions and lead to better more factual understanding of the region. :) 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 14:52
 
If someone dark-complexioned Indian having a British family name Eagan,does it indicate English ancestry or just an adopted surname during British colonial rule ?!
 
 
 
 
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