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Zarak_Khan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zarak_Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 07:09

 

Hello!

This is my first post on this forum.

I stumbled upon this thread and found the material here interesting.

Nevertheless, I will like to add that Ossetic, like Pashto, a language spoken in Afghanistan and north-western Pakistan, is an East Iranian language. In fact, Pashto and Ossetic are the only surviving literary East Iranian languages. Some other languages in the East Iranian group are Yazghulami, Wakhi, Munji, Yidga, and Shighna.

About the similarity of the Ossetic words above with that of Pashto, I will say that:

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Ossetian don (Alanian dan) = water [compare with: 'Don River']

This word is also used in Pashto where it means "Pond" or "Lake". In fact, in Pashto, we have the names of lakes like: "Shin Dan" [Blue Lake], and "Mahoo Dan"[Fish Lake].

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Ossetian arf (Alanian apr, Modern Persian zharf, Pahlavi zupar) = deep [compare with 'Dniepr River']

In Pashto, we have the word "jawar" or "zawar" for "deep".

Quote  
Ossetian styr (Alanian stour, Modern Persian sotorg, Pahlavi sturg) = big [compare with: 'Dniester' River - 'dana stour']

In Pashto we have the word "Styr" for "big". So this word Pashto has the same meanings as in Ossetic.

Quote
Ossetian sar (Modern Persian & Pahlavi sar) = head [compare with: 'Sarmatian']

In Pashto, we use "sar" for "head". In Pashto, "mat" means "to break" or "broken". "Sarmatian" in Pashto would means "brave people that fight to death". Our national poet Khushal Khan Khattak says:

"Pa Jahan kai da nangyal wi da dwa kara

"Ya ba okhuri kakari ya ba kamran shi"

[A brave man has only two options in the world...either to fight to death or to secure victory...]"

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Ossetian hoch = mountain [compare with:  hoch (Germ.)]

In Pashto, the corresponding word is "ghar".

Quote
Ossetian roukhs (Modern Persian roushan, Pahlav rokshn) = light [compare with: 'roksalan', 'Roksalana']

In Pashto, there is a similar word "roukhan/roukhana" meaning "bright" or "illuminated".

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zarak_Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 07:34
Originally posted by Iron (Ossetian) Iron (Ossetian) wrote:

 Ossetians are very different, some have very light skin color, others are darker, some have blue eyes, others green or hazel..  for me it doesn`t matter. We are all proud of who we are & where we come from.  I call my people beautiful not only because of the way they look like , but because of their spirit.  here is a new ossetian website in English, but it is not completed yet... http://www.ossetians.com/eng/

____________

You know what has happened in Ossetia in September, 2004.  This pain will stay with us forever... it is difficult for me to talk about Beslan.  This website is in English, it will help you to understand what we are going through http://www.materibeslana.com/eng/index.php

Always in our hearts http://www.materibeslana.com/eng/thelist.php?category=4

This is very nobler of Osset people, who value "spirit" more than "skin color". Pashtun people have the same attitude. They are a great lover of liberty and fight for it. They respect personal strength and will pay great regard to a person who would do things courageously even if bad.

We have an ancient code of honor called Pashtunwali.

The name for our language "Pashto" is also synanimous with "steadfastness". 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFG-PaShTuN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 00:19

Beautiful, as Zarak Khan pointed out some facts, i myself heard that Ossetic language has very strong relation to Pashto lanaguge.

 

Anyone want to shed more light on this?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 09:22
They both have strong ancestral links to Scythians, that is the reason.  It explains why an East Iranic language is so far west, the Ossetian/Alans are believed to be descendants of a mixture between the Massagetae tribe which migrated west and another resident IE people in the area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 15:13

I want to back up Zagros's claim that the relationship in words is related to the Scythic peoples.  You can also find similarities in Pashto words with Old Bulgar as well.  At the same time, you can also find these same words in modern Persian.  Unfortunately for the Scythians they did not leave any literary works we could follow. 

I wonder though, if there was any Lyric poetry that may have been handed down generation to generation from them.

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFG-PaShTuN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2005 at 01:25

THank you Zagros and Afghanan Janano!

Guys, i have another question, how did we find out about the Scythians? Have they left any records of themselves in the form of book or anything? Are they mentioned in any book by non-Scythic people?

Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anbalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 11:16

There are some Georgian and Armenian historic references about links between Ossetians and Scythians and Massagetae. Mrovelli, a Georgian historian, wrote a legend about origins of Caucasus nations. He pointed non-local origins of  Ossetians. By him Ossetians were brought by "Khazars". The Khazars conquested Caucasia in times long before Romans appeared there. Khazars, by Mrovelli, took land from "sons of Caucas" and gave it to Uobos, father of Ossetians. The "Khazars" are assumed to be Scythians in common historic knowledge. By Armenian sources (Agafangel 5AC, Moves Khorenaci 5AC, etc.), the Khazars did not present that time in Caucasus area, but Massagetae (Mazkuta) are mentioned often. If you read the both sources and identify names in respect to historic events, the "Khazars" (by Georgians) are "Massageta" (by Armenians), "Ossetians" by Georgians are "Alans" by Armenians. Khorenaci makes difference between "Massagetae" and "Scythae" in some cases. He confirms that land of Massagetae begins right behind of the Gates of Alans (Darialan gorge in Ossetia).

Links:
http://babon.sitecity.ru/ltext_0903104639.phtml Armenian history links (Russian)
http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus8/Mroveli/text.htm Mroveli "Life of Kings of Kartli" (in Russian)

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:37

 Well,maybe it's off-topic but russian archeologist Rjabchikov claims he has deciphered some scythian writings....

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:39
Really? do you have a link?  I didn't know Scythians had a script.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:48

About Rhoxolani-what's the meaning of the word?In Serbia we have a name Roksanda...And does Urosh means anything in Iranian(it's a name in Serbia);also bitanga,losh...

What do u think about Rjabchikov's theory-it's a bit 'radical'...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:58

In Iranian "Roshanak" which means starlet, the Hellenised version is Roxsanna, it was the name of the Soghdian princess that Alexander married. 

Urosh is close to Kurosh (Kiros - Cyrus), it is also a name.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 09:55
Originally posted by Socrates Socrates wrote:

http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl39.htm#TOP

 

It seems he is trying to prove that Scytho-Sarmatians were proto-Slavs, this is clearly not the case, the Slavic and Scytho-Sarmatian migrations to South Eastern Europe were quite distinct.  Although there was definately assimilation between the two. This cross assimilation would explain the Eastern IE and Western IE nature of the Slavic languages, although speculative.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anbalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 13:29
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

In Iranian "Roshanak" which means starlet, the Hellenised version is Roxsanna, it was the name of the Soghdian princess that Alexander married. 

Urosh is close to Kurosh (Kiros - Cyrus), it is also a name.

In Ossetian "rox" (rohs) means "light". Roxolan - means "lighted Alans" and shows superiority. There are Aorsi and Alanorsi among Sarmatians.
"Ors" in Ossetic means "white". So "Aorsi" are "not white" and "Alanorsi" are "white Alans". I think it is popular point among historians. I have looked at articles of Ryabchikov, but I cannot tell much. It seems he has complications to translate all those inscriptions using just Slavic. He refers to Avestian or old Persian, when he can't find sutable Slavic words. I think it is too agressive. However I am not a linguist and can be wrong.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 13:35

Oh, I didn't think of it that way. "Rosh-an" in Persian means bright - "Roshanak" actually literally means bright-let.

Thanks for the info Anbalan.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anbalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 14:56
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Oh, I didn't think of it that way. "Rosh-an" in Persian means bright - "Roshanak" actually literally means bright-let.

Yes, it is "bright" too. "Rohsag" and "rohson" means bright-let in Ossetic. "Rohsag" - is used also when people mension people who passed away and means good (bright) memories about them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 07:27
 I consider Rjabcikov's views a bit 'on the wild side',too.However there r some historians in Serbia that share similar views as Rjabchikov-some of them r even more radical...so I won't mention them-because I don't find them very conviencing.However Zagros, u supported (not directly)the guy who wrote that the differencies between slavic and germanic lang. r the product of differencies between scythian and sarmatian language(due to mixing with Amazons!!!)...now that's rather superficial-and it gives some credentials to Rjabchikov's theory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 07:58

No, no.

My belief is this:

Slavs were a unique people, they migrated south and encountered the Scytho-Sarmatians who they eventually assimilated - these people spoke an Iranic language, they were not Slavic.

This guy says that htey were proto-Slavs which does not make sense.

An example is above - Rohxalani, they were a Sarmatian tribe, the name makes complete sense in Iranian languages.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anbalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 09:13

Originally posted by Socrates Socrates wrote:

 I consider Rjabcikov's views a bit 'on the wild side',too.However there r some historians in Serbia that share similar views as Rjabchikov-some of them r even more radical...so I won't mention them-because I don't find them very conviencing.However Zagros, u supported (not directly)the guy who wrote that the differencies between slavic and germanic lang. r the product of differencies between scythian and sarmatian language(due to mixing with Amazons!!!)...now that's rather superficial-and it gives some credentials to Rjabchikov's theory.

Yes, I agree. When I read Rjabchikov's articles, I also thought that there is an "area of intersection" between Slavic and Iranian linguistic basics. It might be also the ancient nations os stepes could speak languages related to Slavic and Iranian. However, I have also found his translations radical. I know there are many words of Ossetic language sounding similar with Russian, but I do not think because just "indoeuropeanism". For example:

Tayat' (to melt, Rus) - Tayun (to melt, Oset)

Myod (honey, Rus) - Mud (honey, Oset)

Beryoza (birch tree, Rus) - Barza (birch tree, Oset)

Radost' (joy, Oset) - Rada (joy, Oset) 

There are many others. Those words are ancient and cannot be adopted by recent influence.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anbalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 09:18
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

No, no.

My belief is this:

Slavs were a unique people, they migrated south and encountered the Scytho-Sarmatians who they eventually assimilated - these people spoke an Iranic language, they were not Slavic.

This guy says that htey were proto-Slavs which does not make sense.

An example is above - Rohxalani, they were a Sarmatian tribe, the name makes complete sense in Iranian languages.

I have once reffered an article about a discovery in Central Russia, a Sarmatian grave. The archeologists state that Sarmatians had much greater influence on Slavic people than they thought before. Article is in Russian.

http://osradio.ru/2005/10/01/pod_lipetskom_raskopali_unikaln oe_zaxoronenie_sarmatskoj_tsaritsy/#cut1  

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