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Forum LockedOghuz Turkic in Diwan-ul Lughat-ul Turk

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oghuz Turkic in Diwan-ul Lughat-ul Turk
    Posted: 22-Jul-2008 at 02:43
Gok_Toruk
-So, that's a problem! In the first category, Kashghari names some neighbor tribes (Turkmens, at that time, lived in present-day Kazakstan) such as Qyrqizes, Oghuzes, Tokhsi as speakers of PURE Turkic.
 
The Kinik Oguz who founded the Seljuks and the Kayi were also located around modern-day southern Kazakistan. The 24 Oghuz is listed by Kashgari and he locates most of them from Southern Kazakistan to the borders of todays Turkey.
 
Turkic of Turkmenistan must be the closest to the Oghuz Turkic of that era, the Anatolian/Azerbaycan/Iran Turkic has more foreign lexical borrowings, in Kashgari's era these regional Oghuz dialects may have not existed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2008 at 09:35

You said, in your previous post, " The Oghuz Turkish being referred to could not of been referring to Turkic used in Byzantine lands as the Oghuz had not fully established themselves in the region yet. "; but now you're saying "he locates most of them from Southern Kazakistan to the borders of todays Turkey." 

First of all, according to Kashghari, Turkmen Oghuzes had 22 tribes - not 24. What's more, he didn't talked about them being close to Modern Turkey. Could you please give references for your sentence " he locates most of them from Southern Kazakistan to the borders of todays Turkey"? Thanks.

Anyhow, wether Turkmen Oghuzes were 22 or 24 (we are 9 "core tribes" now, each one having sub-tribes), wether if we believe ALL Turkmen tribes moved to Turkey or only a small population of Turkmens settled in Anatolia,... I'm just talking about 2 different Turkic dialects under the same GENERAL name "Oghuz", in Kashghari's books.



Edited by gok_toruk - 22-Jul-2008 at 09:49
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2008 at 09:39
Not to change the topic, but does anyone know who was the Khan/Khaghan of Turkistan contemporary to Makhmud Kashghari?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2008 at 13:40
Gok_Toruk
You said, in your previous post, " The Oghuz Turkish being referred to could not of been referring to Turkic used in Byzantine lands as the Oghuz had not fully established themselves in the region yet. "; but now you're saying "he locates most of them from Southern Kazakistan to the borders of todays Turkey."
 
This doesn't change the point that the Oghuz Turks had not fully established themselves in the Byzantine realm. The Seljuks had a policy of moving the most unruly Oghuz tribes to the Byzantine frontier were they would raid and cause unrest for the Byzantines instead of the Seljuks.
 
Gok_Toruk
First of all, according to Kashghari, Turkmen Oghuzes had 22 tribes - not 24. What's more, he didn't talked about them being close to Modern Turkey. Could you please give references for your sentence " he locates most of them from Southern Kazakistan to the borders of todays Turkey"? Thanks.
 
Your correct, it was Rashid al-din who wrote that Oghuz had 24 tribes.
The locations is based on those regions being were Oghuz Turks were dominating during that period.
 
Gok_Toruk
Anyhow, wether Turkmen Oghuzes were 22 or 24 (we are 9 "core tribes" now, each one having sub-tribes), wether if we believe ALL Turkmen tribes moved to Turkey or only a small population of Turkmens settled in Anatolia,... I'm just talking about 2 different Turkic dialects under the same GENERAL name "Oghuz", in Kashghari's books.
 
I don't think all Turkmen tribes migrated, however, some were moved to the frontier borders by the Seljuks and after they conquered Anatolia took advantage of the power vacum, other migrated during the Mongol and Timurid eras.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2008 at 07:06
So, could you please explain where in this book, Kashghari talks about Oghuz tribes locations "from Southern Kazakistan to the borders of todays Turkey"?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GökTürk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 20:04
A small note:
This book is written for arabians.
The writer(KaÅŸgarlı Mahmut-Mahmut from Kashgar)  has wanted to taught theTurkish language to Arabians.Because of this,Originial title of book is dictionary ( Turkish to Arabian Language).
TENGRÄ° TEG TENGRÄ°DE BOLMIÅž TÃœRK BÄ°LGE KAÄžAN-
TURK WISE KHAN WHO BECAME IN SKY LIKE SKY-GOD
---
tengir ordo(people of Tengri-God-)                 
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