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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 12:24
let go of notions of 'race' and free your mind tigloon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigloon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 13:18
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

let go of notions of 'race' and free your mind tigloon.
I am a researcher, and this topic is about the appearance of Oğuz Turks, so talking about race was necessary. On the other hand, I am not a racist, I need to explain this for preventing misunderstandings.My explanations about Oğuz Appearance was necessarily about 'race' , 'cause I was trying to explain about the difference  at that time, and now.
I would want to underline again that I am not a racist, I only made explanation of necessary  subject.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 13:41
Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

well, "turanid" in race-terminology simply refers to the type of appearance which is the transition between caucasian and mongoloid.
 
Even if it is so, you definitely can't fit all the Turkic people in this category. It's very obvious that some of them are Mongoloids like Yakuts, Khakas or Tuvinians, while some are Europoids like Gagauzs or Chuvashs. Yes, many Turks indeed look like the transation between Caucasian and Mongoloid i.e. Khazakhs and Kyrgyz. But if one applies the term Turanid to those people, he need to specify that, but not to label all the Turks on the face of the Earth as "Turanids" by default.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gezgin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 14:16
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Apparently, this "Turanid race" doesn't exist. Turkic people in Russia (Tatars and Bashkirs) look different than Kazakhs which look not the same as Uzbeks which look different then Azeri and so on.
Think it as doesn't exist.Tatars and bashkirs migrated from uzbekistan.They speak turkish, we speak turkish.Turkic unity will unite.This is reality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 14:47
Originally posted by tigloon tigloon wrote:

Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

let go of notions of 'race' and free your mind tigloon.
I am a researcher, and this topic is about the appearance of Oğuz Turks, so talking about race was necessary. On the other hand, I am not a racist, I need to explain this for preventing misunderstandings.My explanations about Oğuz Appearance was necessarily about 'race' , 'cause I was trying to explain about the difference  at that time, and now.
I would want to underline again that I am not a racist, I only made explanation of necessary  subject.
 
Thanks
No problems but I am not calling you racist, its just that the whole notion of 'race' is wrong. Race doesn't exist it is just perceived by people. The word you should use is phenotype, how people look.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype



Edited by Leonidas - 07-Apr-2009 at 14:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 14:53
Originally posted by gezgin gezgin wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Apparently, this "Turanid race" doesn't exist. Turkic people in Russia (Tatars and Bashkirs) look different than Kazakhs which look not the same as Uzbeks which look different then Azeri and so on.
Think it as doesn't exist.Tatars and bashkirs migrated from uzbekistan.They speak turkish, we speak turkish.Turkic unity will unite.This is reality.
same language and coming from the same ancestor are two different things. Unity also comes in many forms; I cant see politics, social, religion, let alone phenotype or even genetics playing a part.

Many people speak english but never came from england, think about that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 16:27
Originally posted by gezgin gezgin wrote:

Think it as doesn't exist.Tatars and bashkirs migrated from uzbekistan.They speak turkish, we speak turkish.Turkic unity will unite.This is reality.
 
Wake up my friend, I think you confused the topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 16:32
Originally posted by tigloon tigloon wrote:

Is this your idea Sarmat or some scientific prove?
I have written down only 'very little' of the studies that are made on the race called Turanids.I may give more studies made and still being made by international historians, linguistics specialists, antropologists,  and archeologists. I want to remind you that history can change due to the archives of the nations, so it is best to find the most logical way by the help of science.No offance mate, but 'comment' is different, 'fact' is different. 
 
Well, dear tigloon. I don't know what you mean when you talk about "scientific proof" of your theory.
 
Can you honestly claim that these people belong to the same race?
 
A famous Tatar actress from Russia.
 
 
 
A famous Sakha (Yakut) public figure, former deputy Chief prosecutor of Russia.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 17:17
Turks never had a notion of race, racial purity or having to be from a particular race in order to be a Turk in history so trying to work out who a Turk is today solely looking at "race" (race's don't even exist) is pointless.

It wouldn't matter if you was a direct descendant of the Xiongnu or the Ashina clan or Oghuz Kagan himself, if you didn't identify as a Turk today, didn't speak Turkic and lost socio-cultural connections you wouldn't be a Turk even if you had some of the oldest Turkic descendants. That's why race has little to do with who a person percieves himself to be.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote man2rk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 19:02
turks have thousand faces but one soul. if somebody recognises himself as a turk then let him be a turk. no turks want to be russian, arab or chinese.
History is something that victors write on the back of losers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2009 at 19:05
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Turks never had a notion of race, racial purity or having to be from a particular race in order to be a Turk in history so trying to work out who a Turk is today solely looking at "race" (race's don't even exist) is pointless.

It wouldn't matter if you was a direct descendant of the Xiongnu or the Ashina clan or Oghuz Kagan himself, if you didn't identify as a Turk today, didn't speak Turkic and lost socio-cultural connections you wouldn't be a Turk even if you had some of the oldest Turkic descendants. That's why race has little to do with who a person percieves himself to be.
 
Yes, I agree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2009 at 14:27
Chairman of the Islamic Commitee of Russia, Geidar Dhzemal. He is of Azeri descent

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geidar_Dzhemal




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 21:40
I found an interesting tale which possibly connects to the Unification of th Oguz tribes under Osman. I am sure this legend was created much later than Osman but just likes the Arabs in the 7th century the Turkic tribes had an eye on Constantinople; probably beginning with Osman. Dreams of Empire !!


“ The Turks who had emerged from obscurity in Central Asia, came in waves of various Turkmen tribes and in disparate groups displaced from their homeland… fervent Muslim Cruders. * In time these tribes were united under the leadership of a Turkic tribe called the Osmanlis who were followers of the Sultan Osman.   According to Turkish legend a warrior named Osman had fallen in love with Malkhatun who was the daughter of a saintly Sheikh Edebali. (a story were boy meets girl)Osman was poor so the only way to win her hand in marriage was by winning a military victory and thus gain fame. To prove his valor in battle he captured a castle form a Greek Lord named Kose Mikal, who would later become a close friend. Sometime later Osman had a unusual dream that he had captured his beloveds hand and in this dream “he saw a moon (Symbolizing Malkahatun) rise from the shiekh’s chest and set in Osmans own chest. He immediately saw a great tree ( an ancient Turkish sacred symbol) spring from his chest.” * It spread across the sky while the roots of the tree tapped into four rivers; the Tigris, Euphrates, Nile and Danube. A great wind made the tree’s sword shaped leaves point to Constantinople. page 3

It is a beautiful story which I enjoyed reading and points to the origins of the Ottomans.

Armiesof the Ottoman Turks 1300-1774 AD David Nicolle, Osprey Publishing 1983

Edited by eaglecap - 15-Apr-2009 at 23:54
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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