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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:40
Quote Vorian
.....Orthodoxs do the same with priestsLOL and kissing an elder's hand exists in most cultures.


Vorian didn't you know? They're Turks aswell LOL your part of the grand Turanian nation so embrace your brethrin.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:47
OK OK You are true we are bad people , we are very very bad, I wish we didn't come to the world , Turks are bad
 
 
 
 
 
 
you want to hear this sentences but I will never say (:
 
Vorian , my neighbor, when will you change? You hear the voices which are go out from your mouth ? You say priest, christian man. I say grandfather , grandmother (which you call in greek yaya or smthing ok ? )
We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 22:51
Ehh MythTR....I don't get what you are posting it's just creepy.

Quote Vorian didn't you know? They're Turks aswell LOL your part of the grand Turanian nation so embrace your brethrin.


I happily accept my Turanian overlords. Let us rejoice and praise Turan together!



Edited by Vorian - 16-Mar-2009 at 22:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 23:01
Guys, let us calm down and try to maintain serious and interesting discussion if it's possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:03
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

OK OK You are true we are bad people , we are very very bad, I wish we didn't come to the world , Turks are bad
 

 

 

 

 

 

you want to hear this sentences but I will never say (:

 

Vorian , my neighbor, when will you change? You hear the voices which are go out from your mouth ? You say priest, christian man. I say grandfather , grandmother (which you call in greek yaya or smthing ok ? )


Mythtrk- No I would not go this far and in many ways the Turkic tribes could and should be honored for their valor. I am sure if you researched Turkic art you might find it interesting. All of our ancestors were barbarians at one time; the Celts, Germanic tribes, Slavic tribes, Mongols, Romans, Greeks. The first wave of Greeks to arrive in the Bronze Age were very war-like. I urge you to keep learning about the history of the Turkic tribes and their contributions to modern Turkey and the world. It will take a lot of work but you are a smart kid so you can do it if you want to.   Please see the criticism as a learning tool and start your own research but please do not give up.

If fact, modern man, if you look at global events, is just as barbaric as our ancestors. Heck, being half Greek I could have Turkic ancestry and no shame in that.
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:08
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Hungarians didn't come from Finnland. Their roots are in the region betweem Ural mountains and Southern Siberia.
 

Also their language is rather close to the language of Khanty and Mansi Finno-Ugric minorities of Russia than to Finnish language.

 

As for the intermixing with other people, it's obvious that original Magyars heavily mixed with Slavs that were the main ihabitants of Pannonia when Magyars arrived there.


I do not have the desire the research this so I will take your word on it since I tend to respect you.
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 17:09
Eaglecap you could also have an ancient connection to Turks with your native American blood Big smile

If you go back far enough I guess were all related, were all Greeks, Turks, Native Americans Tongue
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 18:27
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:


I do not have the desire the research this so I will take your word on it since I tend to respect you.
 
So do I my friend. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2009 at 14:17
This is really discouraging to see most of the posts are, still, off-topic.

Edited by gok_toruk - 22-Mar-2009 at 14:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 21:51
there isn't any selçuk warrior. They aren't Turk. all of them are byzantine.

Myth TR I still would like to see a source on this or is it just your opinion???

Seljuks and Byzantine the same-

I am just curious about this source and would love to read it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 22:35
he was refering to the cover of the book you posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 23:10
Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

he was refering to the cover of the book you posted.


hmmm it shows some Byzantine Imperial guard or Varangian guards so I cannot see where he got that from by looking at a book cover. I think you are saying it is his opinion and there are not sources which is what I had suspected. I never heard this while I was in Turkiye from anyone or in the museums. I think it was at the Agia Sophia I found a exhibit that listed all the Turkic tribes in which the Seljuk and the Bolgars were listed. I mentioned the Bolgars because I have heard arguments in that direction by Bulgarians.
many thank Temjin

I will have to look at my notes about the dream some Sultan had about a tree growing out of his chest and its roots encompassed the Danube River, the Nile R. and the Euphrates River. I will look it up but can anyone recall the details of this dream.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 14:30
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

there isn't any selçuk warrior. They aren't Turk. all of them are byzantine.

Myth TR I still would like to see a source on this or is it just your opinion???

Seljuks and Byzantine the same-

I am just curious about this source and would love to read it.
 
You said Selçuklar and Byzantines are the same ? Or my english is going to fall down ? Or I can't understand ? I have never see a text like this. Selçuklar and Byzantine are the same.
Confusing...
We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 14:36
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

there isn't any selçuk warrior. They aren't Turk. all of them are byzantine.

Myth TR I still would like to see a source on this or is it just your opinion???

Seljuks and Byzantine the same-

I am just curious about this source and would love to read it.
 
You said Selçuklar and Byzantines are the same ? Or my english is going to fall down ? Or I can't understand ? I have never see a text like this. Selçuklar and Byzantine are the same.
Confusing...
 
I think the confusion arose out of eaglecap's posting the cover of the book, which shows Varangians in the service of Byzantium, and his subsequent mentioning of the color plate inside the book, showing Seljuk mercenaries, which he did not post.  His intention was not to equate Seljuks and Byzantines in the ethnic sense.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gezgin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 21:44
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:




Myth TR I have been to your great country and the Byzantines or Rum called the Turkic tribes Persians. But you live there and since the Oguz first appeared the Ottoman Empire had brought in many ethnic groups. I saw some Turkish people who looked Caucasian but I could see their Asiatic features. They could be descendants of the original Oguz, who knows.

I tend to believe as these various Turkic tribes migrated west they came in contact with different ethnic groups such as Semitic and Indo European peoples. I tend to believe that by the time of 1071- many were already mixed with other racial stock.   The original Turkic tribes were Asiatic though. You can see this in the former (Turkic) regions of the former USSR
[/QUOTE] Did you believe that idiot persians?.They say persian empire the greatest empire in the world.They believe that europeans are iranian:D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 22:47
Originally posted by gezgin gezgin wrote:

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Myth TR I have been to your great country and the Byzantines or Rum called the Turkic tribes Persians. But you live there and since the Oguz first appeared the Ottoman Empire had brought in many ethnic groups. I saw some Turkish people who looked Caucasian but I could see their Asiatic features. They could be descendants of the original Oguz, who knows. I tend to believe as these various Turkic tribes migrated west they came in contact with different ethnic groups such as Semitic and Indo European peoples. I tend to believe that by the time of 1071- many were already mixed with other racial stock.   The original Turkic tribes were Asiatic though. You can see this in the former (Turkic) regions of the former USSR
Did you believe that idiot persians?.They say persian empire the greatest empire in the world.They believe that europeans are iranian:D[/QUOTE]


I only agree in part with you and what you say has a ring of truth in it. I know the Byzantines used Turkic tribes such as the Cumans and others as mercenaries. They were often settled them on the frontier after service where they intermixed with the native population. I know in some cases they were given Greek wives in order to help Hellenize them.   But , the vast majority of Turkic tribes did not invade or migrated (depending on viewpoint) till after the battle of Manzikert. It took about ten years after 1071 before they started to arrive in mass. “The Decline of Hellenism in Asia Minor” By Spero Vyronis covers this in detail.

Edited by eaglecap - 03-Apr-2009 at 22:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigloon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2009 at 06:15
Originally posted by Evrenosgazi Evrenosgazi wrote:

Dear friends
 
       As I realised some of the members are confused of turkic/turkish identity. Describing turks as mongoloid or caucasian is not right in my opinion. We know that most of the turkic tribes are not from the same pool. Okay than let us talk about oghuz turks whom turkified anatolia. What was their appearance when they have arrived to anatolia? How was their physical status during the initial oghuz migration? Does anyone know any sources which writes oghuz tribes as mongoloid looking? 
Dear Evren;
Can you show me the proves of the ''We know that most of the turkic tribes are not from the same pool.'' sentence of you?Or is it just your idea?
The Turkic tribes, as researched by life style, belieft, language, myths, and antropology, shows that they are from the same family type called 'Turanid'(Prof.Cemal Anadol: Turks in the History)
*The Turanid type is described as: 'Horse (long) faced, little, some Lieu- li (blue) eyed, straight black haired, mid length people' in the Chinese archives (called as Pien-itien) as the very first knowledge about Turanids(Turanids are a branch of Europids and called as 'race turco-tatar')**(Pien-itien tells about Mohan the Turkic leader and it is translated by Stanislas Julien in the study called ''Documents historipues sur les Tou-Kioue= Tures''.)
*Eugene Pittard says that Turkic tribes are a race by themselves, in the book named: 'Races and its history'
*Deniker says that Turanids are called Turko-Tatar,
*Hadson calls them 'Turki'
In the Turanid race, the face is wide unlike the Mongolides,the nose is small and the eye curtain found in the Mongolides does not exist. 
**Most anthropologysts say that mongolids and turanids are different race.They seem similar as religion, life style, weapons but science says they are different. My opinion is that there is a brotherhood between them, but I could have not found a satisfying source or research or tesis yet.
 
So, after this info, I can tell that the first Turks came to Anatolia looked exactly like central Asian Turanids, because they were not mixed with other races yet.
 
I would be happy to share any further info or discussion on this topic.
Thanks
'Peace at home, Peace in the world' Gazi M. Kemal ATATÜRK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2009 at 14:42
Apparently, this "Turanid race" doesn't exist. Turkic people in Russia (Tatars and Bashkirs) look different than Kazakhs which look not the same as Uzbeks which look different then Azeri and so on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2009 at 19:28
well, "turanid" in race-terminology simply refers to the type of appearance which is the transition between caucasian and mongoloid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigloon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2009 at 23:39
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Apparently, this "Turanid race" doesn't exist. Turkic people in Russia (Tatars and Bashkirs) look different than Kazakhs which look not the same as Uzbeks which look different then Azeri and so on.
Is this your idea Sarmat or some scientific prove?
I have written down only 'very little' of the studies that are made on the race called Turanids.I may give more studies made and still being made by international historians, linguistics specialists, antropologists,  and archeologists. I want to remind you that history can change due to the archives of the nations, so it is best to find the most logical way by the help of science.No offance mate, but 'comment' is different, 'fact' is different. 
'Peace at home, Peace in the world' Gazi M. Kemal ATATÜRK
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