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MythTR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2009 at 16:03
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

I don't understand why the topic was changed!
 

Our topic was Oğuz apperance. But I saw, they said nordic, they said Persians, They said kurds...

 

I said that the blonde word for Kipçak Turks. (yes KIPÇAK "Ç" no kipchak ) for example the name totneham but we should call it Totnım it is like this.

 

Kıpçak Turks (tribe) are the most beautiful appearence in the other Turkish tribes.

 

Thank You!



Myth TR I have been to your great country and the Byzantines or Rum called the Turkic tribes Persians. But you live there and since the Oguz first appeared the Ottoman Empire had brought in many ethnic groups. I saw some Turkish people who looked Caucasian but I could see their Asiatic features. They could be descendants of the original Oguz, who knows.

I tend to believe as these various Turkic tribes migrated west they came in contact with different ethnic groups such as Semitic and Indo European peoples. I tend to believe that by the time of 1071- many were already mixed with other racial stock.   The original Turkic tribes were Asiatic though. You can see this in the former (Turkic) regions of the former USSR
 
I can say a bit you are right but I want to say something.
 
You know all people can mix together. You can see japan and chinnese looked people in the middle usa. This is probable. I don't say in our country there is no people who called mixed with another people.
 
But I want to take your concentration to this. In our country there are a lot of Turkish tribes. And I think the byzantines were wrong because Turks are very very very different from Persians. Of course some of Turkish person may be mixed with persian person. You can see different faces in Turkey. But in summary They are Turkish.
 
For example in agean region in Turkey girls are more beautiful (for me ) because they are blonde :D and they are entering the maturity faster because agean region have too many olive, olive oil etc.. and Olive contains oestrogen and its makes girls more beautiful . And that doesnt mean this girls are rum , or european.
 
I hope you understood me, with my bad english.
 
Thank You !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2009 at 19:15
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

I don't understand why the topic was changed!
 

Our topic was Oğuz apperance. But I saw, they said nordic, they said Persians, They said kurds...

 

I said that the blonde word for Kipçak Turks. (yes KIPÇAK "Ç" no kipchak ) for example the name totneham but we should call it Totnım it is like this.

 

Kıpçak Turks (tribe) are the most beautiful appearence in the other Turkish tribes.

 

Thank You!
Myth TR I have been to your great country and the Byzantines or Rum called the Turkic tribes Persians. But you live there and since the Oguz first appeared the Ottoman Empire had brought in many ethnic groups. I saw some Turkish people who looked Caucasian but I could see their Asiatic features. They could be descendants of the original Oguz, who knows. I tend to believe as these various Turkic tribes migrated west they came in contact with different ethnic groups such as Semitic and Indo European peoples. I tend to believe that by the time of 1071- many were already mixed with other racial stock.   The original Turkic tribes were Asiatic though. You can see this in the former (Turkic) regions of the former USSR

 

I can say a bit you are right but I want to say something.

 

You know all people can mix together. You can see japan and chinnese looked people in the middle usa. This is probable. I don't say in our country there is no people who called mixed with another people.

 

But I want to take your concentration to this. In our country there are a lot of Turkish tribes. And I think the byzantines were wrong because Turks are very very very different from Persians. Of course some of Turkish person may be mixed with persian person. You can see different faces in Turkey. But in summary They are Turkish.

 

For example in agean region in Turkey girls are more beautiful (for me ) because they are blonde :D and they are entering the maturity faster because agean region have too many olive, olive oil etc.. and Olive contains oestrogen and its makes girls more beautiful . And that doesnt mean this girls are rum , or european.

 

I hope you understood me, with my bad english.

 

Thank You !


I think you are correct and the Byzantines, like many people, tended to lump their enemies into one group.

I am still in contact with a Turkish gal I knew in Istanbul and if she were here in Arizona I would date her.

Olive oil- funny I live off of that stuff and being half Greek it is also, like the Turks, a cultural thing.

Are some of these blonde haired women part Rum or possibly Slavic by ancestry? I think you would love Washington and Oregon states because they are full of Scandinavian-German blondes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2009 at 19:41
[/QUOTE]

I think you are correct and the Byzantines, like many people, tended to lump their enemies into one group.

I am still in contact with a Turkish gal I knew in Istanbul and if she were here in Arizona I would date her.

Olive oil- funny I live off of that stuff and being half Greek it is also, like the Turks, a cultural thing.

Are some of these blonde haired women part Rum or possibly Slavic by ancestry? I think you would love Washington and Oregon states because they are full of Scandinavian-German blondes.[/QUOTE]
 
Scandinavian ohh great ! :D we called them iskandinav and for me this people have great girls . The most beautiful girls . But I don't say the same thing for germans (:
But I think slavic isn't about this .
You are true, certainly some rum persons mixed with some Turkish persons, but if you can come Turkey again and take a tour on agean region you can see the real Turkish girls are blonde and beautiful (because of olive oil (: , and other foods (: )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2009 at 20:32
Scandinavian ohh great ! :D we called them iskandinav and for me this people have great girls . The most beautiful girls . But I don't say the same thing for germans (:

When I say German they are Americans who are mixed with other ethnicity. Like in my case I am mostly Greek, German and Irish with some other European roots and a dash of Native American. This is why we call America the great melting pot-

You are true, certainly some rum persons mixed with some Turkish persons, but if you can come Turkey again and take a tour on agean region you can see the real Turkish girls are blonde and beautiful (because of olive oil (: , and other foods (: )

I saw some people who looked Greek and this is probably why a lot of Turks thought I looked Turkish. The strange thing is, other than my olive complexion, I look German. Probably more Northern Italian- I have been to Milano, Italy.

I know many of Oguz settled down from a nomadic lifestyle and intermixed with the native peoples. Can you recommend any books about the Turkic nomads of Anatolia in English?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2009 at 21:47
Eaglecap, this book is good


Oguzlar (Turkmenler): Tarihleri, boy teskilati, destanlari

by Faruk Sumer.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5205940.Oguzlar


I don't know if there is an English translation, I'll try and find out for you

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2009 at 21:54
thanks and such material could help me understand the similarity the Oguz had with the Plains Indians. see politics of revenge in the Americas thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 15:49
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

But I want to take your concentration to this. In our country there are a lot of Turkish tribes. And I think the byzantines were wrong because Turks are very very very different from Persians. Of course some of Turkish person may be mixed with persian person. You can see different faces in Turkey. But in summary They are Turkish.
 
To the Byzantines' defense, I think they did not consider Turks actually to be "Persians" in reality.  This was a literary convention they adopted in their histories and other literature.  Similarly, all Western Europeans were called "Franks" and Central Europeans "Scythians."
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 17:54

You can visit Turkology institues if you will come Turkey again.

 
But I want to say that again, some of Turk and Greek persons are mixed and you may saw them.
 
and yes again blonde girls (:
 
we had better change the girl topic or we may be get banned (:
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 20:48
I found an interesting picture of a plate showing a Seljuk warrior in Byzantine Armies AD 886-1118. The person on the plate looks like a mongol warrior but I do not know how to find this image




Edited by eaglecap - 14-Mar-2009 at 20:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 21:20

there isn't any selçuk warrior. They aren't Turk. all of them are byzantine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 21:38
Myth, the Byzantines had a long history with the Turks stretching back to alliances with the GokTurks and Khazars. There were Byzantine Turk armies, Christian Turks and Turks of different religions living in Byzantine lands or as mercenery soldiers. I think the children of them were called "Turkopoli" or something similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 22:05
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Myth, the Byzantines had a long history with the Turks stretching back to alliances with the GokTurks and Khazars. There were Byzantine Turk armies, Christian Turks and Turks of different religions living in Byzantine lands or as mercenery soldiers. I think the children of them were called "Turkopoli" or something similar.


yes good point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 22:15
Originally posted by MythTR MythTR wrote:

there isn't any selçuk warrior. They aren't Turk. all of them are byzantine.



I am sorry that is wrong- byzantines and Seljuk the same - show me some sources on that and cite them. The Sejuk Turks were a Turkic tribe that invaded Persia and then Anatolia by defeating the Byzantine army at the battle of Manzikert. I do not know what revision history you are reading but it is, no offense to you, baloney.

I really do not like wickpedia and do not consider the best source but check any historic source about that period and you will see how false your assumption is: Ask Byzantine Emp who is a grad major in Byzantine history. In fact, I think he has graduated from Michigan State University. Seljuks = Byzantines right!!

I will post some sources on Byzantine history you should read later.

http://tk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alp_Arslan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HungryWolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 14:07
ANTHROPOLOGY

The Oguz Turks are labeled by some historians as "the purest of Turks" in terms of race, language and culture. According to Lev Gumilev in his accredited work entitled 1,000 years around the Caspian, the Oguz in the anthropological (racial) category were Caucasoid (Europoid).

The majority of today's Oguz Turks have light to dark skin tones and dark hair and eye colors, while lighter Europoid features including very light skin tones, blondish/brownish/reddish hair colors and light eye colors.

We Oghuzes are "the purest" of the Turks Clap


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 16:51
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Myth, the Byzantines had a long history with the Turks stretching back to alliances with the GokTurks and Khazars. There were Byzantine Turk armies, Christian Turks and Turks of different religions living in Byzantine lands or as mercenery soldiers. I think the children of them were called "Turkopoli" or something similar.
 
I didn't hear anything about this topic. But I know the Ottomans was doing that which you called. And the ottomans call them DEVŞİRME . Which are captured in the war , and the ottomans was growing up them and they used to use in the wars.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 16:56
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:


I am sorry that is wrong- byzantines and Seljuk the same - show me some sources on that and cite them. The Sejuk Turks were a Turkic tribe that invaded Persia and then Anatolia by defeating the Byzantine army at the battle of Manzikert. I do not know what revision history you are reading but it is, no offense to you, baloney.

I really do not like wickpedia and do not consider the best source but check any historic source about that period and you will see how false your assumption is: Ask Byzantine Emp who is a grad major in Byzantine history. In fact, I think he has graduated from Michigan State University. Selçuks = Byzantines right!!

.



http://tk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alp_Arslan[/QUOTE]
 
If I don't interest I couldn't pass this object. A Huge Big Very very big false.
 
Seljuks = Byzantines ?
 
no , not.
 
If in this picture he was a SelÇuk warior you can choose them easyly. At that period, first Turk and Byzantine wars haven't blonde Turkish soldier. The Kipçaks went to the river with their horses and they suiceded, after they learnt they were fighting in byzantine army in front of Turks.
 
You can see easyly there weren't characteristic Turkish in this picture. Because this period not blonde
 
What a english.


Edited by MythTR - 15-Mar-2009 at 16:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 17:38
For everyone participating in this thread:
 
Please do not turn this thread into yet another one trumpeting whatever nationalist rhetoric one believes about the Turks.  Also, this is not the place for saying what racial or ethnic features one thinks are "pure" and "unpure."  Please stick to the historical context.  if there are any questions consult the Code of Conduct.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoryGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 17:40
The question really is, why are we questioning the appearance of a people? The Oghuz developed in Central Asia, and like many other Central Asians are a mixture of the Far East, the South, and the Southwest. I am not sure how much prehistoric gene-sharing was amongst the earliest inhabitants of the forest-steppe of Eastern Europe, however, surely there was. In light of the situation it is apparent, both genetically, linguistically, and historically that the Oghuz had infiltrated Central and Eastern Europe culturally. Thus, ultimately resulting in a true amalgamation of peoples. Let it be forewarned that there is no such existence of a pure people... Not now, not even 120 000 years (to as far as our genetic anthropological knowledge), and not ever... Same goes for languages, language itself is ever-changing and will always be, for example English. I know it is dry, but the history reflects its influences from all around the globe. Starting with Proto-Germanic to Frisian dialects, incluenced by Celtic languages of Western Europe and then later Romantic languages to our modern era. Oghuz on the other hand has been influenced, due to its 'invisible' boundaries of no influence and continuity through time (my version of a rotten joke), is ultimately a combination of socio-historic influences.LOLWinkTongue
Când viaţa rãu, unele cresc testicule şi face cu ea!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HungryWolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 17:45
Seljuks = Oghuz Turks from Central Asia without any questions.

Edited by HungryWolf - 15-Mar-2009 at 18:00


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 18:06
Quote HungryWolf
The Oguz Turks are labeled by some historians as "the purest of Turks" in terms of race, language and culture. According to Lev Gumilev in his accredited work entitled 1,000 years around the Caspian, the Oguz in the anthropological (racial) category were Caucasoid (Europoid).


There is no such thing as the "purest of Turks" its total nonsense, no nation or ethnic group is pure, what is "pure", please don't tell me you actually believe Oghuz Turks didn't mix with anyone on the way from Central Asia to Turkey.

Caucasoid, Mongoloid... racial categorising is absurd, most people especially in Eurasia have features of both.

Quote HungryWolf
We Oghuzes are "the purest" of the Turks


No your not the purest of the Turks, there are no pure Turks or pure anything else in Eurasia or anywere else in the world and if there were they would be some inbred freaks, can you imagine an extended family reproducing with each other for thousands of years... it wouldn't be a pretty site.

Also according to Turks Yasa and Tore, marrying outside the tribe was encouraged, to make larger and more strenghthened clans and tribes.

Quote Myth
I didn't hear anything about this topic. But I know the Ottomans was doing that which you called. And the ottomans call them DEVŞİRME . Which are captured in the war , and the ottomans was growing up them and they used to use in the wars.


The Byzantine had Turk armies fighting for her even during the Seljuk and Beylik era's, there is an old history between the two.

Quote Historyguy
The question really is, why are we questioning the appearance of a people? The Oghuz developed in Central Asia, and like many other Central Asians are a mixture of the Far East, the South, and the Southwest. I am not sure how much prehistoric gene-sharing was amongst the earliest inhabitants of the forest-steppe of Eastern Europe, however, surely there was. In light of the situation it is apparent, both genetically, linguistically, and historically that the Oghuz had infiltrated Central and Eastern Europe culturally. Thus, ultimately resulting in a true amalgamation of peoples. Let it be forewarned that there is no such existence of a pure people...


Exactly.





Edited by Bulldog - 15-Mar-2009 at 18:12
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