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Forum LockedOdysseus' return from Trojan War dated

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Yiannis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 12:13
Seems that two scientists, Magnasco from NY and Baikouzis from the Uni. of Buenos Aires (name seems greek) have made calculations, based on the astronomical data and eclipses mention in the Odyssey and have come to the conclusion that Odysseus return home on April 16, 1178 B.C.
More info here:
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 16:21
The Acheans & co marched against Troy on 1218BC according to the Parian Mable stele. If we take into consideration how long the war was, Odysseus had a very long journey back...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 17:03
Well, there's no evidence that the parian stele is correct. Archaeological evidence from Troy that the time of its destruction coincides with the date these scientists present.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 18:23
And which day of the week and what time ?
 
follwing dialog happened:
 
Odysseus: Hey, my lovely sweethart. I'm back. A bit late, but i'm back. Lovely April, isn't it?
 
Penelope: Aaah, my husband. Going out to have good time with his comrades. Not a single postcard, not a simple call, nothing. And now you are back, like nothing ever happened.
(mocking his husband) sweethart, i'm back. How nice, i'm doing the laundry, friday morning, and my husband is coming home, killing some men, the dog is getting crazy, and want's to have sex. come on, f**k off, mister Ody.
 
Ody: Pardon, btw, kind regards from the Trojans, i mean the former Trojans..., Polyphem, Circe and all the others....
 
Penelope: My husband had a nice time and i was sitting here on this desert island, please, spare me with your fairy tales. Go in and light the fire.....
 
And this all happened a April, 16th  1178 b.C. Friday noon 11.43 am ....


Edited by ulrich von hutten - 24-Jun-2008 at 18:38

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 19:01
Achaeans buried their dead, so they should find his body by now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 20:43
Quote Achaeans buried their dead, so they should find his body by now.
 
True, and if we regard the practices of those around the area such as the "Lukka" (Lyicans of the Hittite period) and many of the states of the Ionian seaboard that were Hurrian in origin, we can see that they buried their dead (actually in jars methinks) but the problem is that the Trojan war was looked upon from a classical perspective for hundreds of years (notice how the traditional depiction of the war shows them all with Torios and Corinthian Helmets rather than Mycenean boars tusks helmets and Hittite long hair?) and since the classical Greeks mainly cremated their dead, the search for such bodies will only have begun now. Don't forget that Troy itself was only unearthed at the end of the 19th century, and the same with Boghazkoy/Hattusas and Megaroi all around Pre-Dorian invasion Greece. Therefore, it simply wouldn't have occured to archeologists and historians before these excavations to search for buried bodies - they viewed the Trojan war from a strangely Classical perspective!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 21:06
I thought the Myceneans tended to burn their dead, while the dorians to bury them in box shaped graves.
I'm not really an expert on this, but I know that in the archaeological museum of Athens  (remember Athens was also not a dorian city) there are plenty of  burial stones. Unless something eludes me (and these graves actually contained urns), classical greeks buried their dead.
On the other hand, I'm not expert on Myceneans either (which means I'm possibly wrong), but in the Iliad we pretty clearly see that the dead (Patroklos comes to me mind) were burned. Of course we also have the tombs-like-hills in Mycenenae, and I'm now confused...Clown

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 22:49
Quote On the other hand, I'm not expert on Myceneans either (which means I'm possibly wrong), but in the Iliad we pretty clearly see that the dead (Patroklos comes to me mind) were burned. Of course we also have the tombs-like-hills in Mycenenae, and I'm now confused...Clown


It's simple really. Homer, or the series of unnamed poets that made Iliad lived a few centuries after the Trojan war, when Dorian influence had spread in all Greeks and thus described the burials with what they knew. Same goes with warfare, phalanx is sometimes mentioned even though it was developed much later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 01:07
Moreover, I think that even in the classical period and Roman period, some legionaries and Roman colonies based in the east, as well as the eastern Greeks such as the Lycians and "pseudo-hittites" such as the Lydians and Cimmeranians buried their dead with elaborate rituals. It really is very confusing. Notable examples include the royal necropolis of Sidon and Roman mummies in Ptolemaic Egypt, whilst Romans only a few centuries before (such as the father of Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus) burnt their dead. We know that even in the principate this occured, because as Vorian states, writers speak about what they know - Virgil describes the battles in books 10-12 of the Aeneid between the Etruscans, Pallentines and Trojans with the Rutilians and Latins with Roman military tactics and equipment. Moreover, he also describes funeral pyres rather than mounds for the dead. However, there appears to be a crossover in Homer's illiad because I recall that at the funeral of Patroculus, they burn his body and then seal the bones in a casket inside a death-mound. It seems to be half and half from that perspective. It's also similar in the Aeneid - when they find the body of Misenus in book 6, they simply pile earth over him so that the Sibyl can let Aeneas go into the underworld and speak to his father in the Elysian fields, but also when Aeneas finds the dead body of Polydores in book 3 in Thrace (the whole bloody bush thingy if anyone remembers that), they do the exact opposite - they just burn everything. It seems that both burning and burial could have been part of the same ritual.
 
...Sorry I just realised that I was trolling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 09:23
   One thing to consider is that the poets told of the Trojan War lasting 10 years.  Perhaps that stele referred to the onset of hostilities between the Mycenaean Greeks and the city of Troy and the date being set for Odysseus's return was from the journey after 10 years' absence while fighting in the final phases of that long war.  This wouldn't surprise me if more recent history illustrates a number of conflicts (such as the "Hundred Years' War" between England and France) where periods of truces interrupted years-long campaigns until one side or the other finally met defeat after a lengthy siege or just gave up due to exhaustion.
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