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Forum LockedNorth Korea has another nuclear test

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 05:19
It is easy to find out Nuke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 08:19
Although i am against imperialism, i' m just fed up. They do not want to cooperate. The "village wacko" is terribly hungry and threatens everybody to secure it. Just bomb the M**** f***** to the ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 08:22

That MF can easily annihilate SK and damage Japan beyond repair. If the current economic crisis is bad just think what it would be with after a nuclear war.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 08:27
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

That MF can easily annihilate SK and damage Japan beyond repair. If the current economic crisis is bad just think what it would be with after a nuclear war.

 

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Personally, i doubt about that. South Korea has very advanced armed forces to counter NKs army which, although quite big, is a moving dinosaur in terms of speed and hi-tech weaponry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 12:24
Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

How dare North Korea use a nuclear bomb! They clearly aren't sane enough to use it responsibly, like the rest of the world apparently is. 


While none of the world is sane enough to have the power a Nuclear bomb offers, there's no point in ignoring the fact that they don't exist (Which is why nuclear disarmament people really wind me up) Personally speaking I'd rather an elected head of state, controlled by an elected legislative, a powerful judiciary and a binding constitution have possession of the greatest Nuclear arsenal in the world over... someone who has not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 12:25
Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

Although i am against imperialism, i' m just fed up. They do not want to cooperate. The "village wacko" is terribly hungry and threatens everybody to secure it. Just bomb the M**** f***** to the ground.


YEOWWW!!!! LETS NUKE THAT MOTHA!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 13:09
Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

That MF can easily annihilate SK and damage Japan beyond repair. If the current economic crisis is bad just think what it would be with after a nuclear war.

 

Al-Jassas



Personally, i doubt about that. South Korea has very advanced armed forces to counter NKs army which, although quite big, is a moving dinosaur in terms of speed and hi-tech weaponry.
as already mentioned, its not their troops or armour, certainly not their airforce or navy, that will be damaging its their artillery/rockets. If you have thousands of simple and cheap rockets ranged agianst Soul that can all be launch in a very short time, you can take out that city no matter how well it is defended. You really can right off SK if a war starts, no matter how many AEGIS ships they can build.

Now NK wont move far, but they will burn SK and damage Japan with what they already have. they cant move around allot but its even harder to move in on them as welll. I reckon if it comes to that, the US will use nukes because it would be simply too painful to move in with conventional forces alone. These guys are dug in very deep.


Edited by Leonidas - 28-May-2009 at 13:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 14:34

the DNK army is one of the most mobile armies in the world, they have in all 150 active divisions from them 25 mechanized and 13 division size tank brigades. Add to that some 90k special forces personell in 25 brigades. All in all some 4000 tanks and the same number of APC's. All this is more than what SK has.

And if this isn't enough wait till you hear their aiforce. They have 1600-1700 planes of different sizes and because of the small area of operations these can cover the whole of the peninsula as well as the nearest Japanese cities in less than an hour and they have 11k+ air defense units having many advanced Russian SAM systems.
 
Finally Seoul and its 20+ million metro area is in the direct path of any tank forces NK has and is less than 50 Km from the border with few troops between it and NK.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 16:24
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:


as already mentioned, its not their troops or armour, certainly not their airforce or navy, that will be damaging its their artillery/rockets. If you have thousands of simple and cheap rockets ranged agianst Soul that can all be launch in a very short time, you can take out that city no matter how well it is defended. You really can right off SK if a war starts, no matter how many AEGIS ships they can build.



But how are you going to protect your artillery without air power? The USSR had the biggest artillery force before WWII, yet, as history has proven, this was not sufficient enough. Artillery forces without umbrella are just sitting ducks.

Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:


Now NK wont move far, but they will burn SK and damage Japan with what they already have. they cant move around allot but its even harder to move in on them as welll. I reckon if it comes to that, the US will use nukes because it would be simply too painful to move in with conventional forces alone. These guys are  in very deep.


That's a different story, a story of political will.  Plus, these guys are also very poorly trained and hungry, i mean literally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 16:27
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

the DNK army is one of the most mobile armies in the world, they have in all 150 active divisions from them 25 mechanized and 13 division size tank brigades. Add to that some 90k special forces personell in 25 brigades. All in all some 4000 tanks and the same number of APC's. All this is more than what SK has.

And if this isn't enough wait till you hear their aiforce. They have 1600-1700 planes of different sizes and because of the small area of operations these can cover the whole of the peninsula as well as the nearest Japanese cities in less than an hour and they have 11k+ air defense units having many advanced Russian SAM systems.
 
Finally Seoul and its 20+ million metro area is in the direct path of any tank forces NK has and is less than 50 Km from the border with few troops between it and NK.
 

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It's the usual story of huge numbers vs low quality. SK forces, on the other hand, are far more balanced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 16:44
Plus they would have huge US and NATO support. The US could put 100,000 troops into South Korea in a matter of days if it had to. (Not to mention vast aircraft support and the full weight of the pacific navy.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 17:14
Huge numbers-low quality made the Russians win in WWII. Why not now?
 
By the time US troops reach Korea, the US will be already bankrupt, NK has full control on the ground and since its typhoon season and with Korea's awsome sandy beaches (pun), D-Day will be a picnic.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 18:05
Well, good luck to the North Koreans with their nuclear tests. They are entitled to nukes as well as everyone else, even a hydrogen device. There are no 'friendly' countries with nukes, they are all atommically dangerous.
 
Where the N.Koreans need to be concentrating with equal vigour though is agriculture and mending bridges with the S.koreans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 18:29
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Huge numbers-low quality made the Russians win in WWII. Why not now?
 


Not true. From 1943 onwards, Soviets started producing weaponry from good (T-34) to high quality weaponry (T-44, YaK-9 etc).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 18:38
Originally posted by malizai_ malizai_ wrote:

Well, good luck to the North Koreans with their nuclear tests. They are entitled to nukes as well as everyone else, even a hydrogen device. There are no 'friendly' countries with nukes, they are all atommically dangerous.
 


That is the kind of mindless relativism that will bring on Armageddon. Nukes have to be controlled like any other dangerous substance - I suppose toxic chemicals should just be allowed into the hands of anyone, afterall no government is morally suited to preventing or regulating their control when they're perfectly happy to make chemical bombs?

Following this logic through, why can't private individuals build Nuclear weapons? Bill Gates should surely have the right to own one - after all, everyone is as entitled to nuclear weapons as anyone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 23:15
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

Originally posted by malizai_ malizai_ wrote:

Well, good luck to the North Koreans with their nuclear tests. They are entitled to nukes as well as everyone else, even a hydrogen device. There are no 'friendly' countries with nukes, they are all atommically dangerous.
 


That is the kind of mindless relativism that will bring on Armageddon. Nukes have to be controlled like any other dangerous substance - I suppose toxic chemicals should just be allowed into the hands of anyone, afterall no government is morally suited to preventing or regulating their control when they're perfectly happy to make chemical bombs?

Following this logic through, why can't private individuals build Nuclear weapons? Bill Gates should surely have the right to own one - after all, everyone is as entitled to nuclear weapons as anyone else.
 
If Steve Jobs has one why complain when Bill gate wants one. If one of the clowns in the circus has one let the other one have one too. The logical thing would be to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. If half of everyone have nukes than the other half can have them too.
 
Armageddon? wasn't that potentially the hot war? U don't need N.Korea for armageddon. Or, we can have 'total' nuclear disarmament, in fact ban all indiscriminate weapons.


Edited by malizai_ - 28-May-2009 at 23:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 23:18
Please live in the real world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 23:21
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

Originally posted by malizai_ malizai_ wrote:

Well, good luck to the North Koreans with their nuclear tests. They are entitled to nukes as well as everyone else, even a hydrogen device. There are no 'friendly' countries with nukes, they are all atommically dangerous.
 


That is the kind of mindless relativism that will bring on Armageddon. Nukes have to be controlled like any other dangerous substance - I suppose toxic chemicals should just be allowed into the hands of anyone, afterall no government is morally suited to preventing or regulating their control when they're perfectly happy to make chemical bombs?

Following this logic through, why can't private individuals build Nuclear weapons? Bill Gates should surely have the right to own one - after all, everyone is as entitled to nuclear weapons as anyone else.

Mindless relativism? That's a bit harsh don't you think? The fact of the matter is that when America, and subsequently Britain and European and other nations were producing nuclear weapons there wasn't the same 'control' rhetoric as there is today. 'Back then', it was perfectly ok to produce nuclear weapons because the people who were producing them were sane enough to control themselves, or at least that was the justification. In reality, countries like Russia, the US, Britain, France etc could do what they wanted because they occupied the controlling sphere of world politics, there was no one except themselves to regulate them, and that was unwise for various reasons. Now, we have people from these nations, or at least the same ideology, claiming that North Korea needs to be invaded for nuclear testing. Why? Is it because our global idea of what is justifiable has changed, and nuclear weapons are no longer a representation of progress and self-defence? 

The USA was attacked at Pearl Harbour, on its own soil, and eventually responded through the use of nuclear weapons, the effect of which are still being felt today. Why shouldn't NK respond to being attacked on their own soil through the use of nukes? Is it suddenly not justifiable? And to abstract the point into whether or not individuals should be allowed to build nuclear armories isn't really helpful. The question here is not about the legitimacy of regulation, it is more about the legitimacy of nuclear development. Of course any nation may be 'regulated' (as euphemistic as the term is) through outside influence if their behaviour becomes unacceptable, but why should NK be disallowed to develop nukes like half the world already has? Don't get me wrong, the idea of NK owning nukes is not something that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling of equality, but invasion is, at the very least, grossly hypocritical. Instead of that, awful as it sounds, we may have to sit this one out and wait for NK to be the aggressor. That, to me, is justification.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 23:24
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

Please live in the real world.

Ok, let's take this 'real world'. What would you, in the real world, do with North Korea?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 23:33
Its easy to wait things out in our comfertable houses in Dublin Emmet, quite another another if you are one of the millions living in Greater Seoul. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be so ambivilent if you were South Korean!

If we're going to talk about morals, its a pointless to go backwards and point the finger at America. Vastly different times with two massive war machines (Germans and the Japanese) killing millions in Europe and Asia. And the use of Nukes in Japan wasn't a response to Pearl Harbour at all, it was a result of the deaths of thousands of American troops in a war they had pretty much won but which was been dragged out by a country which had pretty much lost. NOT that that is a justification for the use of the Bomb, but it does make it slightly less morally comfertable to be so against it.

Saying that 'anyone' can develop Nuclear weapons is nonsense. Especially for people so in favour of their disarmament. North Korea and the United States are not the same. They cannot be put on the same weighing scale on any stretch of the imagination - one is governed by a fanatic and evil aristocratic family, the other elected and representative of a free people. The world came out of the Cold War without having to use a Nuclear bomb, and the sole reason for that was mutually assured destruction (And the acronym MAD is very apt by the way)

Complete disarmament is also scarily naive - all it takes is one country to renege on the promise and all of a sudden we have a global dictatorship, with one group capable of annihilating the rest of the world without reprisal. Nukes have to be controlled. Just like chemicals, AK 47s and poison have to be controlled. We don't live in a nice fairy world where everyone just wants to get together for a nice cup of tea so as to put all these differences behind them.
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