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Forum Lockedneed advice about martial arts

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Husaria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 21:57
Style vs Style is a dumb argument to do, each one has its own specialty with a emphasis on it which will obviously make one or the other better in a "Street fight" situation. But the bottem line is  MA's are useless in a street fight the best street fight technique is to avoid it altogether or run away. It won't make a difference if your a judo master or boxing champ somone knifes you, your scewed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 22:10
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

 
That is true; you will learn nothing unless you get beaten.


Have to agree with you there, Sarmat.

The way to learn is to lose until you start winning.

And then repeat the process.Big%20smile
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 22:22
Originally posted by Husaria Husaria wrote:

It won't make a difference if your a judo master or boxing champ somone knifes you, your dead.
 
 
Then learn how to take the knife away, or carry a knife and/or a gun.
 
Or better yet all of the aboveWink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 16:59
Originally posted by Husaria Husaria wrote:

Style vs Style is a dumb argument to do, each one has its own specialty with a emphasis on it which will obviously make one or the other better in a "Street fight" situation. But the bottem line is  MA's are useless in a street fight the best street fight technique is to avoid it altogether or run away. It won't make a difference if your a judo master or boxing champ somone knifes you, your scewed.
 
I don't agree. First of all, of course there are no MAs which are complitely the same with "street fighting;" but, there are MAs that are more closer to it and less closer.
 
Secondly, there MAs which teach you how to defend against knife and other weapons.
 
Thirdly, knifes and weapons are not used in most of the street fights, which usually look like primitive boxing and wrestling moves. So, a good boxer, wrestler, kick boxer or MMA practitioner will always be on top in the fight like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mayra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 17:34
brasilian capoeira is good sport... i wish this was more like a true chat area....is there somewhere where everyone meets in real time??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 17:39
yes getting beaten might work for learning but I am not planning to lose a teeth or two.I will go for boxing this week.hope the trainer is more merciful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 17:52
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

Originally posted by Husaria Husaria wrote:

Style vs Style is a dumb argument to do, each one has its own specialty with a emphasis on it which will obviously make one or the other better in a "Street fight" situation. But the bottem line is  MA's are useless in a street fight the best street fight technique is to avoid it altogether or run away. It won't make a difference if your a judo master or boxing champ somone knifes you, your scewed.
 
I don't agree. First of all, of course there are no MAs which are complitely the same with "street fighting;" but, there are MAs that are more closer to it and less closer.
 
Secondly, there MAs which teach you how to defend against knife and other weapons.
 
Thirdly, knifes and weapons are not used in most of the street fights, which usually look like primitive boxing and wrestling moves. So, a good boxer, wrestler, kick boxer or MMA practitioner will always be on top in the fight like this.


Sarmat don't take it the wrong way but thats a very optimistic view on how street fights play out, weapons are the highest risk and even if the assailants don't have any don't expect a fair 1 on 1 match, more like getting mobbed by 3 people.MA's  give you the upper hand over someone if its a 1vs1 match with no weapons involved but thats almost never nearly the case.Tell me one MA that teachs you to avoid a brick to the head while 2 people rush you and stomp you into a coma. Unless you consider stupid highschool fights thats the only place i can think of were MA's would help out much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 18:20
Originally posted by Mayra Mayra wrote:

brasilian capoeira is good sport... i wish this was more like a true chat area....is there somewhere where everyone meets in real time??


It is that. Which reminds me, I need to get back into it. Only stopped because of schedule challenges.

Oh, and since we're all scattered across the globe, we find it a bit difficult to meet in real time.
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 05:31
Originally posted by Batu Batu wrote:

yes getting beaten might work for learning but I am not planning to lose a teeth or two.I will go for boxing this week.hope the trainer is more merciful.
 
LOL Boxing is supposed to be even more dangerous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 05:40
Originally posted by Husaria Husaria wrote:


Sarmat don't take it the wrong way but thats a very optimistic view on how street fights play out, weapons are the highest risk and even if the assailants don't have any don't expect a fair 1 on 1 match, more like getting mobbed by 3 people.MA's  give you the upper hand over someone if its a 1vs1 match with no weapons involved but thats almost never nearly the case.Tell me one MA that teachs you to avoid a brick to the head while 2 people rush you and stomp you into a coma. Unless you consider stupid highschool fights thats the only place i can think of were MA's would help out much.
 
Hmm.. actually weapons are absent from most of the street fights. In order to avoid a brick to the head you'll have to move your body fast and have a quick reaction (almost all every MMA at least tries to teach it).
 
About 1 MA guy versus several people.  (This is very real and most of the fights are just like this one, very fast and unpredictable).
 
 
Perhaps my story doesn't count, but I saw myself how a drunk boxing coach knocked out 3 Russian policemen. Some MA definitely work on the street.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 23:08
You are living a fairy tale my friend, a few exceptions don't make a majority.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17616770&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=champ-hatton-mugged-on-hol--name_page.html

Hatton did the right thing and hes a world caliber boxer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 23:43

We are not talking about gang robberies. We are talking about street fights.

Defence against an armed robber is another story.
 
And I don't think that Batu who was opened the thread was interested in how "should he disarm a criminal armed with a gun." It's complitely another topic.
 
We are discussing street fights here i.e. fight between unarmed people which happen on the street i.e. not in a gym or in a boxing ring and which are not limited by conventional rules.
 
To defend against the things you are talking about my advice would be to buy a gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 23:51
Exactly


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2008 at 00:20
Just prior to the out break of the war with Japan an Army Boxing Champ and a Jap Imperial navy Ju Jitsu champ had a match.  The US Army boxer took the JJ champ to school.Big%20smile It wasn't even close.  Building on that, the US military dveloped their own MA.  It is no holds down and dirty.  Designed for hand to hand unarmed combat it took moves and techniques from almost every other form of MA and much of it came directly from the street.  Since WWII it has been refined some but not much.  It's still taught in basic afaik and the manuals are still published.  Most of it is not for casual use.  The main idea is to maim or kill.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2008 at 03:43
Well i am getting all this told to me from my Dad Mariusz Bonek(you can look him up on google and find some listings at tournaments,competetions but for the most part hes obscure)He was a top 5 boxer in Poland on his way to olympics but one day got lazy and stopped training.Hes been in a good number of "street fights" with hooligans,gypsys and thugs and these are the things hes told me and if that isnt somthing that debunks your opinion i don't know what does considering he is a high caliber Boxer whos been involved in street fights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2008 at 04:37
Originally posted by Husaria Husaria wrote:

Well i am getting all this told to me from my Dad Mariusz Bonek(you can look him up on google and find some listings at tournaments,competetions but for the most part hes obscure)He was a top 5 boxer in Poland on his way to olympics but one day got lazy and stopped training.Hes been in a good number of "street fights" with hooligans,gypsys and thugs and these are the things hes told me and if that isnt somthing that debunks your opinion i don't know what does considering he is a high caliber Boxer whos been involved in street fights.


Well, ask him these questions.

1: How many of these fights involved armed opponents
2:What (if anything) were they armed with
2: Did he manage to string them out and take them one at a time in any, or was he mobbed in all of them without exception.
3: Assuming there were any in which he fought assailant(s) one at a time, did his boxing skills help at all in those quick one-on-one contests.
4: If what you're saying is true and MAs are useless in a real knock-down, kick-out street fight, weapons are common, and it's almost impossible to avoid being mobbed, WHY IN GOD'S NAME IS HE STILL ALIVE.

The fact that he's been in those fights and is still living is either a result of skill or luck. If he's been in as many fights as you say, then either god really likes him or he's good enough at what he does to defeat his opponents, disengage from the fight, or just survive--a feat in and of itself.


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2008 at 05:21
Questioning me about the reliability of his experiences is pointless considering he doesn't elaborate on them much and thats what makes them belivable because they don't sound like tall tales. And to answer your last question the majority of his stories he was with friends/other boxers for the most part, he was only in a street fight by himself on one occastion. If you guys are trying to argue the fact that skilled/experienced Fighters in what ever discipline get helped by that in street fights thats absolulty true,but its not some miracle training that will  guarantee the win for the practioner.  the point i am trying to argue is that the general population isnt exactly skilled/experienced and most of the time get hurt seriously or even fataly sometimes. Havn't you heard of the countless news stories of teenagers getting knocked down and kicked to dead by a group of other teenagers?You guys come off as someone who has been a practitioner for 2 years of what ever and you think your the s*** and have some exclusive knowledge that will overcome 3 other people. Welcome to reality, street fights don't end well for a single combatant against a group most of the time. But thats life nothing is 100 percent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2008 at 05:53
Dear Husaria,
 
Perhaps you misunderstood our discussion. We don't consider ourselves as some modern variations of Bruce Lees which are able to kick any ass or whatever comes on the street.
 
We were just discussing the relative applicability of different styles on the street. That's it.
 
I think it's out of question that a person trained in a MA would do much better in a street fight than an average Joe without MA experience. The question is which MA would be the most effective on the street.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2008 at 06:08
I am glad we understand each other.If thats the case i would go with Muay thai and Judo, Muay thai for the clinch which turns up alot in the uglyness of street fights and judo for nice throws on cement using the clothing as handlesBig%20smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2008 at 06:13
Originally posted by red clay red clay wrote:

Designed for hand to hand unarmed combat it took moves and techniques from almost every other form of MA and much of it came directly from the street.  Since WWII it has been refined some but not much.  It's still taught in basic afaik and the manuals are still published.  Most of it is not for casual use.  The main idea is to maim or kill.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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