History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum Lockedneed advice about martial arts

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
Author
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2008 at 19:09
Originally posted by snowybeagle snowybeagle wrote:

 
Oh please, if such a thing come to pass, the title isn't worth a bucket of spit in the first place.
How did the so called Wushu champion of Europe got that title in the first place?
 
How he got his title? On the championship, of course.
 
He has been studying Wushu for many years in Beijing in the special institute. Traditional Wushu styles are complitely useless in the real fight that's why Chinese had to "reinvent" Sanda or Sanshoudao, but again it's a very good physical training which can help you a lot when you start studying a really practical style.
 
When I lived in Taiwan I had many conversations with the guys who studied traditional Wushu for many years and felt vey frustrated about its efficiency. The funny thing that I met them in the boxing gym. LOL
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2008 at 19:17
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

  Wing Tsun is what Bruce lee studied predominantly, at least in the beginning--and I really don't think anyone could call him useless in a fight.
 
Bruce Lee is an excellent athlete. However, he was an actor in the first place, but not a street fighter.
 
Nevertheless, Bruce Lee invented his own style Jeet Kune Do, which is indeed effective compare to "traditional martial arts." However, Bruce Lee abandoned Wing Tsun stances and technques, he based Jeet Kune Do on the Western Boxing, simply because he saw that boxing was much more efficient than Wing Tsun.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2008 at 21:56
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

Nevertheless, Bruce Lee invented his own style Jeet Kune Do, which is indeed effective compare to "traditional martial arts." However, Bruce Lee abandoned Wing Tsun stances and technques, he based Jeet Kune Do on the Western Boxing, simply because he saw that boxing was much more efficient than Wing Tsun.


Do you mind if I ask a question?

You seem rather interested in styles rather than individuals--how did you end up seeing things that way? Any a result of personal experience?

Personally, I've taken generally traditional and "useless" martial arts most of my time as a martial artist--and the few instances of combat against someone from a "better" style I've had, I've either held my own or won.

Granted, these were not straight street fights--more on the order of freestyle sparring then anything else, rather like MMA matches as opposed to real combat. But I've proved to myself that the styles I've studied haven't made me ineffective; and that some of the techniques I've learned can be applied, If I time them right and perform them correctly.


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 00:26
I agree that individual character is important.
 
But I thought the question was about effectiveness of different styles per se.
 
Let us put it this way.
 
There are 2 people of the same physic abilities, strenghts, sizes etc. They also have the same level of mental control, psychological self confidence etc.
 
Now we teach our guys different styles of MA, let's say one study Aikido, another Muay Thai, they study it for the same time period each time spending equal time in classes.
 
Now the question is who will win in a fight between the two?
 
In my opinion the answer is clear, the Muay Thai guy will win. Just because his style is more suitable for the real hand to hand combat situation.
 
The ability to mentally control yourself under the stress of the fight is very important and can't be under played.
 
However, some styles are just simply more close to this kind of stressful situation than the other.
 
If you're doing boxing for example you spar all the time. You simply get you used to get your ass kicked. But you hardly can get the same kind of experience when you do aikido for example, or some style of traditional karate or kongfu, on the contrary most of the time you'll spend on polishing useless (for real fight situation) kata or taolu as they are called in Chinese.
 
That's what I meant.
 
However, I agree that the personality is very important. In order to be succesful in the fight one should have the level of self confidence, the ability to remain calm and a kind of the thing which I would call "warrior spirit" and not every "fighter" can really claim all those qualities.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 01:02
Of course!

Your analysis is entirely correct.

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted your intentions. You said 'those styles are completely useless in a real fight' and I guess I misunderstood, taking that to mean 'it doesn't matter who you are, if you study in these styles you will lose.'

I might dispute the characterization of Wushu as all bad, but in general, it has been transformed into much less of a combative art than it was. Now it's often more of a stylized sport, which is unfortunate.


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
Batu View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 31-Aug-2006
Location: Barad-dur
Status: Offline
Points: 403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 21:32
what about Hapkido? looks pretty good.
A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 03:49
Hapkido is fairly good. From what I understand, it's into more joint locks and pins than many other arts, but it's more balanced over various methods of attack and defense than you might think.

I'm not exactly an expert on that particular martial art, though. Feel free to do research as opposed to automatically taking my word.
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
King Kang of Mu View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
(Foot)Balling DJ from da Eastside

Joined: 23-Mar-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1022
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 05:05

I did little bit of Hapkido when I was young.   I know it's smilier to Aikido but I don't know much about Aikido other than it is similar to Hapkido, so I wouldn't be able to tell you how it is different if it is different.  I assuming Hapkido has some native Korean martial arts elements added to it, like Dang Su Do, Hwarangdo, Taekkyun, etc.  'Hap' means 'to bring together', 'Ki' is the Chinese martial arts' 'Chi', 'Do' means 'the Way'.  The way of bringing energy together?  Something like that.

Like TheARRGH said it focuses on joint locks with some throws and striking moves.  Joint locks are lot different than ones we see in MMA.  First it's not about putting maximum pressure on certain points.  It's more designed to gain control over your opposition than going for the maximum pain or even damage.  Which leads to moves like you end up with two fingers on your opponents wrist with his arm twisted and you have total control this person, something like that.  As Samart has been doubting about the practicality of these moves, I question some of them also.  
 
For me personally I enjoyed the Taoism, Tai Chi, Acupressure elements more.  You need to understand how the body works.  There is much more emphasis on bringing this 'Ki/Chi' together by understanding how it flows through your body as you move.  Judo has that element too.  Having done both are very good for balanced posture.  Posture is very important in many East Asian martial arts, even calligraphy for that matter.  Whole idea is if attain that center you can let the evil energy pass by you without losing your own mental/emotional/physical balance, and let it fall on its own force of gravity.  From blocking to foot works to strikes circular movements are emphasized also.  All the forces comes from the ground and goes back to the earth eventually.  All you need to do is guide the fall.  I guess that's the Taoist element I was talking a bout.   Some breathing and meditation exercises remind me of some Tai Chi too, though I can't say I'm an expert on Taoism or Tai Chi.  There is a great deal of study on human anatomy and pressure points and muscle and bone structures stuff like that.  If you have a back problem and can't find a chiropractor go find a local hapkido master, don't quote me on that though either.Wink 
 
Here is a little demo video.


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 13-Aug-2008 at 06:40
I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 05:53
 Aikido and Hapkido are written with the same Chinese characters 合氣道 and apparently have the same meaning.
 
King Kang, it's interesting how Aikido is called in Korea?
 
In fact both have origins in Japanese jujitsu that's why the techniques are so similar. However besides, jujitsu it seems to me that Hapkido incorporated a great deal of Taekwondo. Taekwondo style high kicks (which is not very practical BTW) are common in Hapkido sparring. Active incorporation of Jujitsu throws and joint-locks makes Hapkido somehow more practical than other traditional MA. The weakness of Hapkido is poor bad punching techinques.
 
In my assesment, however, Hapkido, is still not the best option for the street.
 
 I would still go with good old Muay Thai. Smile


Edited by Sarmat12 - 13-Aug-2008 at 05:54
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 06:05
Not Muay Thai.

Muay Boran.

(Assuming you can find someone who actually teaches it...)


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 06:18
I don't think Batu will be able to find a guy like this. Smile
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 06:28
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

I don't think Batu will be able to find a guy like this. Smile


Hope springs eternal.Praying

Batu, if you're more into the flat-out efficient street-fight sort of martial arts, you might try Krav Maga. It's an Israeli-invented self-defense focused martial art with the emphasis on, basically, survival by any means necessary.

The Wikipedia Article

It can be difficult to find a school, but...well...

WAY less difficult than finding someone who actually teaches Muay Boran.
(Although a great many things are less difficult than finding someone who actually teaches Muay Boran. Raising a Nile crocodile with minimal injury is one of them.)





Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
King Kang of Mu View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
(Foot)Balling DJ from da Eastside

Joined: 23-Mar-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1022
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 07:07
Funny clip for Hapkido.
Bruce Lee mopping the floor with a Hapkido master.Big%20smile
I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com
Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 17:27
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu King Kang of Mu wrote:

Funny clip for Hapkido.
Bruce Lee mopping the floor with a Hapkido master.Big%20smile


Ah, back when skintight yellow tracksuits were a good idea...LOL


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
Count Belisarius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Magister Militum

Joined: 25-Jul-2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 17:32
Kenpo is an excellent, efficent, practical, street art and you might look into krav maga my brother is taking it.


Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)


Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 19:39
The quote attributed to me isn't mine. Just for the record.
 
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

  Wing Tsun is what Bruce lee studied predominantly, at least in the beginning--and I really don't think anyone could call him useless in a fight.
 
Bruce Lee is an excellent athlete. However, he was an actor in the first place, but not a street fighter.
 
Nevertheless, Bruce Lee invented his own style Jeet Kune Do, which is indeed effective compare to "traditional martial arts." However, Bruce Lee abandoned Wing Tsun stances and technques, he based Jeet Kune Do on the Western Boxing, simply because he saw that boxing was much more efficient than Wing Tsun.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
Count Belisarius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Magister Militum

Joined: 25-Jul-2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2008 at 03:21
BTW Batu did you ever find a martial art?


Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)


Back to Top
Batu View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 31-Aug-2006
Location: Barad-dur
Status: Offline
Points: 403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 16:21
not yet,actuallyLOL Im still looking for the best.I went to a kickboxing gym a week ago,which was run by a professional kickboxer(he still fights,I knew him from tv).I got into one of his lessons and I found it too violent for me.the guy said that I will get stronger when I have got beaten enough.So I am still searching.
A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
Back to Top
Count Belisarius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Magister Militum

Joined: 25-Jul-2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 16:23
Try kenpo


Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)


Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 20:39
Originally posted by Batu Batu wrote:

not yet,actuallyLOL Im still looking for the best.I went to a kickboxing gym a week ago,which was run by a professional kickboxer(he still fights,I knew him from tv).I got into one of his lessons and I found it too violent for me.the guy said that I will get stronger when I have got beaten enough.So I am still searching.
 
That is true; you will learn nothing unless you get beaten.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.