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Batu View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 19:25
  I am planning to do some sports this year,and I wanted the sports I will do to be some kind of martial arts.
  I've tried taekwondo before,which was good for nothing,and I got my a*s kicked(my tournament didnt last for long).And it  totally useless in the streets.
  I heard that karate is the same,I have seen some videos about judo,which seems good but not that effective.
  Aikido,was the best martial arts I encountred,but I want to get in shape aswell and aikido is not suitable for this.
  I will probably go on for Wing Tsun or Wushu.They say wing tsun is better but wushu or kung fu looks more entertaining(I am nowadays watching the anime series "Avatar",and I like kung fu movies)
  I want to see some action,to do some sports,and kick some a*s.
    Anyways,which one(I will be pleased to see you add other martial arts styles) should I go for?
A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gargoyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 19:38

Hello Batu...

Why don't you try SUMO?????

I will describe a few of the benefits for you...

1. You get to eat ANYTHING you want...

2. You get to wear a sexy G-string...

3. Every now and then you demonstrate your strength and manliness in front of an enthusiastic audience who cheer for you...

4. You get to slap and push other big guys around a ring... very masculine and exciting...

5. Japanese women will love you...

6. When you retire you can come and live in a country like Australia and claim a disability pension...

I hope this helps...
Jugo de sandia es muy bueno!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 22:04
Originally posted by Batu Batu wrote:

  I am planning to do some sports this year,and I wanted the sports I will do to be some kind of martial arts.
  I've tried taekwondo before,which was good for nothing,and I got my a*s kicked(my tournament didnt last for long).And it  totally useless in the streets.
  I heard that karate is the same,I have seen some videos about judo,which seems good but not that effective.
  Aikido,was the best martial arts I encountred,but I want to get in shape aswell and aikido is not suitable for this.
  I will probably go on for Wing Tsun or Wushu.They say wing tsun is better but wushu or kung fu looks more entertaining(I am nowadays watching the anime series "Avatar",and I like kung fu movies)
  I want to see some action,to do some sports,and kick some a*s.
    Anyways,which one(I will be pleased to see you add other martial arts styles) should I go for?
 
I did Judo for about 3 years and Hapkido(Korean Aikido) for about a year and half in my early teens. 
 
Taekwondo does get bad wrap for being impractical in the 'streets'.    I do agree that Taekwondo is very weak on fist strikes and almost no submission(choking or joint locking) game AFAIK.   But as a Korean and in defense of Taekwondo, I do believe it has the most powerful kicking techniques.   Taekwondo's spinning back kick is supposedly the most powerful in martial arts except the Muay Thai knee kick(but you do have to pull down your opponents neck for the knee kick to be that powerful.  Also some of the Taekwondo kicks need some open space to generate that power which make them impractical in certain crowded or small spaces.    But having said that if it's so impractical, then why it is loved by U.S armed forces, especially the U.S. Marine Corps, the ones who has to be 'practical' at all cost?  Yes, those kicks are powerful , fast and deadly.   To make it more 'practical', practice more.   Taekwondo also emphasizes on getting in shape but that is base on who teaches you and how much time you can work on it.  If you are just taking a class for a couple days in a week I don't think you will see much improvement anytime soon.  Taekwondo also has some routines that you punch or kick hard surfaces over and over to make you bone dense for your fists and shin.
 
Judo and Taekwondo are both Olympic events, so they teach much of the tournament' version which make them even more impractical in the 'streets'.  Judo also has many Aikido/Hapkido, Jujitsu like Choking, Joint Locking submission game but most of the time you see the Olympic style throwing moves which makes Judo look one dimensional.   Again it's all base on who teaches you and how committed you are. 
 
I don't wanna sound like Mr. Miyagi but if you are just looking to 'kick some a$$', I don't think you will gain much no matter what discipline you choose.  I know you probably don't mean literally 'kicking a$$ in the streets'.  I know you meant more like kicking a$$ in practice sparring and tournaments.  Which is fun, no doubt.  But win or lose, it's more about gaining confidence that you understand better about your own mind and body, and gain  better control of it as you practice more.  God, that sounded soooo corny.  You know What I meant say though......  


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 03-Aug-2008 at 22:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 22:22
Originally posted by Batu Batu wrote:

  I am planning to do some sports this year,and I wanted the sports I will do to be some kind of martial arts.
  I've tried taekwondo before,which was good for nothing,and I got my a*s kicked(my tournament didnt last for long).And it  totally useless in the streets.
  I heard that karate is the same,I have seen some videos about judo,which seems good but not that effective.
  Aikido,was the best martial arts I encountred,but I want to get in shape aswell and aikido is not suitable for this.
  I will probably go on for Wing Tsun or Wushu.They say wing tsun is better but wushu or kung fu looks more entertaining(I am nowadays watching the anime series "Avatar",and I like kung fu movies)
  I want to see some action,to do some sports,and kick some a*s.
    Anyways,which one(I will be pleased to see you add other martial arts styles) should I go for?
 
If you want an effective H2H style, try Muay Thai.
 
If you live in a dangerous area, buy yourself a walking stick and learn Jodo.
 


Edited by Paul - 03-Aug-2008 at 22:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 11:08
If you live in a dangerous area, move.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 14:07
Batu, as you have already done a martial art, I am sure your teachers must have told you the all important rule: Once you get good at it, you are not ever allowed to use it anymore outside of training. With ability comes responsibility. Choosing a sport based on the damage you can do to others on the street is absurd.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 15:55
why the bad press about Taekwondo? The best martial arts ever!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hkdharmon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 23:58
Yes, I agree. if you are in danger, move. H2H combat is something you only engage in if you have NO OTHER CHOICE. You have another choice, move to a safer area and learn to difuse conflict. The most basic skill involved in self defense is"running away". What do you have to prove?
However, choose a martial art based on what you would enjoy practicing, not on how (allegedly) effective it is on the street. If it is a very effective art, but you never practice because it is no fun, it is useless.
A small amount of inferior knowledge is superior to a complete lack of superior knowledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 16:30

I dont have to learn how to fight to survive,I am not joining "the Foreign Legion" either.. I just want to have some fun,do some sports etc.

A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 18:11
Read 'The Book of Five Rings'. Everything you need is there. 
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 18:37
I understood you, Batu.  Unless you want be a MMA inspired bar brawler, I know you meant just 'kicking a$$' in practice sparrings and tournaments, which is like I said earlier, fun no doubt. 
 
And I don't agree with the notion that you can or should just walk away from every confrontational situations.  There is a time and place and a cause that you should stand your ground.  For self-defense purposes, I believe you can walk away from almost every situations.  But in case of defending someone else who can't defend themselves, I don't think you should just walk away every time.  Example, you walk out of the local supermarket, walking toward your car in dim lit parking lot, and you spot a couple of teenage  punks(I don't mean Punk rockers) mugging an old lady.  What do you do?   Of course here in U.S. the equation is lot different because those teenage punks might have guns.  
 
I think the purpose of martial arts more than just attaining ability to fight.  I think more ideal goal of a martial art practitioner is to attain the ability to compose yourself not just physically but also mentally, emotionally, spiritually.  And also to develop your sense of justice and balance, and apply that in everything you do.  You can diffuse many confrontational situations with what you say, how you say, or how you posture yourself(how you sit, how you stand, how you walk).   The sense of balance one needs for a spinning back kick can be applied to finding that sense of balance in between two arguing friends and so on......  Well, until then 'Wax on and Wax off', brother!  "Miyagi has a hope you, Danyosan".
 
There is an old Korean saying which loosely translates into something like, "The empty wagon always rattles louder, (you can hear it coming miles away)". 
 
P.S.  Thanks Al Jassas, your kind words for Taekwondo warmed my heart.
 
P.P.S.  Speaking of the Foreign Legion, anyone here familiar with Savate?
 


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 05-Aug-2008 at 18:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 19:06

If you want to learn how to fight, but not just the useless fancy moves. Study boxing-the most easy and effective martial art and Muay Thai. Those will teach you how to fight and you will much more confident only after one month of studying those.

Savate and Kick-boxing are also fine.

If you want to be a complete fighter you'll need some grappling skills as well in the future. So, you can study any kind of wrestling, though free style wrestling perhaps would be the most practical. And also in the end you'll need to get some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

However, from my experience and observations most of the fight are very fast and usually you use your fists only. So, for the beginning boxing will complitely suffice.
Later you can add your basic foundation with Muay-Thai.
 
Karate, Taekwondo, Wushu, Aikido etc. are good ways to keep yourself in shape but they are complitely useless on the street unless you face some untrained, physically not fit oponents.
 
Numerous Mixed Martial Arts competitions like UFC and Pride in Japan proved the dominance of good old boxing and wrestling over all fancy and exotic martial arts.
 
An absolute world Mixed Martial Arts champion Russian Approve, Fedor Emelianenko has its basic training in Sambo (Russian form of Judo wrestling) boxing and also some complimentary skills of Muay Thai (Dutch school)-that's all you need to be succesful on the street.
 
The formula is very easy the simpler Martial Art is the more effective it works on the street.
 
A short video from one gym in Russia to substitute my words. Karatekas have good flexibility but they have no idea how to kick ass...Smile
 
 
Taekwondo practitioner get owned by a Muay Thai fighter
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 19:28
KenpoClap is an EXCELLENT!!!! martial art.

Edited by Count Belisarius - 05-Nov-2008 at 03:17


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 19:37
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

Karate, Taekwondo, Wushu, Aikido etc. are good ways to keep yourself in shape but they are complitely useless on the street unless you face some untrained, physically not fit oponents.
 

Then why Karate was banned in Soviet Union? As you claim it is useless in real situations.

Only some spetznaz or KGB agents could get training in that martial art.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 19:49

It was banned for the political reasons.

People in the SU were free to train in boxing, sambo and wrestling which were much more practical.
 
KGB never trained in karate they have been training in so called "combat sambo."
 
Spetznaz has been trained in so called "hand-to-hand combat" (rukopashnyi boi) it has some elements which look similar to karate but it's not karate.
 
The back bone of the Soviet special forces starting from the 30th was Sambo/Combat sambo.
 
The creator of Russian Sambo, Vasili Oshepkov was an amazing person, he grew up in Japan and was one of the very few Westerners who graduated from Kodo-kan the famous Judo dojo. His skills were noted by Kano Jigoro, the creator of Judo himself.
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Generally, there is no lousy MA, only lousy MA teachers and MA students.

What matters is the particular school (as in actual dojo, or teacher), not the form of MA.
 
If you want something to have a good time sparring in the arena, choose a school where the students spend a lot of time sparring in the arena.
 
If you want something useful in the street, go and learn in the street.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 04:33
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

If you want to learn how to fight, but not just the useless fancy moves. Study boxing-the most easy and effective martial art
I agree, I am a big fan of recreational boxing. The cardiovascular training was excellent and there were no belt rankings to worry about. 
 
As a side note, MMA developed a bad reputation where I used to live. Some of the local instructors actively encouraged needless aggression on the streets. Their students then provoked avoidable fights with often unskilled opponents, some of whom were seriously hurt.  


Edited by Cryptic - 06-Aug-2008 at 04:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 04:46
Nice topic here, Batu...

Others have said most of the "it's about confidence, etc." stuff that's the most important, so I'll settle for an overview of the martial arts I actually know something about.

Aikido:

Aikido can be effective. Joint locks and atemi, mainly. The chief problems; it's often not taught to be effective, and any locking/grappling art takes a long time to get used to, and even longer to be good at. I've found ikkyo and yonkyo to be reasonably effective (in real life, I'm a little bit of a martial arts freak...) but you have have studied for a long time learning the..."Right"...way (for you) to get them to work.

Taekwando:

Good kicks, and you can get crazy fit doing it--excellent cardio, and definitely a certain amount of strength training. It was originally adopted to fight enemies on horseback, so a lot of high moves which CAN be effective--they just need lots of time, lots of effort, and knowing when and how to apply them.

Brazilian jujitsu:

Good groundwork. It's fun. It's rough. It's hard to get used to locking and holding, like I said. My only gripe with BJJ is that it has no real means of dealing with multiple opponents--which is one part of martial arts I really like, even if it's disturbingly hard.

Wing tsun:

Wing tsun is a very nice striking art. It requires a lot of finesse, speed, control, and co-ordination. And, thus, it develops those aspects of your physical capabilities.

Wushu:

"Wushu" is a broad term for chinese martial arts. It can be sport-focused, with the emphasis on forms, flashiness, and fun. Or it can be very traditional, with the emphasis on, basically, getting stronger, faster, tougher, more skilled, and with a repotoire of incredibly effective techniques. Matter of personal preference;either can be great. Also a matter of style; there are LOTS of styles of Wushu. Fujian White Crane is in some ways similar to Wing tsun--lots of finesse and control. There are both Northern and Southern Praying Mantis styles, each with it's own distinctions. There is Monkey Kung fu, unpredictable and complex. And those are just the beginning...

Capoeira:

Capoeira is a brazilian martial art with the emphasis on kicks, take-downs, reading body language, unpredictability, and dodging rather than flat-out blocking. It can be effective, although there are certain techniques that are only there for training/display purposes. It comes in three varieties; Angola, which is closer to the ground and in which the emphasis is on clever planning, Regional, in which the emphasis is on speed, reflexes, and athletic ability, and contemporeana, a broad term denoting schools which seek to combine the best of both main styles. It is an EXTREMELY good workout, too; by twenty minutes into the first class, you will feel the strain.

...well, it depends on the teacher, but that was how it was for me--and i'm in pretty good shape.

Also, there are lots more: Judo, Muay Thai, Sambo, Savate, Sumo, Kenpo, Hapkido, Jeet Kune Do, Krav Maga, Silat, Eskrima....

It's up to you, though. Hope you find something to your liking!



Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 05:16
Originally posted by snowybeagle snowybeagle wrote:

 
If you want something useful in the street, go and learn in the street.
 
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
 
Rock on, brother, rock on!
 
EDIT: TheARRGH, great post.  I don't think I can add anything to that.  Some of those high Taekwondo kicks are designed to fight enemies on horse back?  I never thought about them that way.  That makes a lot of sense though.
 


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 06-Aug-2008 at 05:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote raygun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 05:52

I read that the top 3 martial arts suitable for the street are: Boxing, Muay Thai and Brazilian Jujitsu.

But on the street anything goes; punching, bitting, bottles, bricks, etc.
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