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Komnenos View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 12:33
War criminals living in Britain total 'more than 200'
No, Im not talking about Maggie!

19 June 2005 / The Independent
The Home Office and the police are investigating claims that more than 200 Nazi war criminals are living in Britain, The Independent on Sunday can reveal. The alleged suspects include 75 Auschwitz camp guards who went missing after the Second World War and who are believed to have fled to this country.
The Metropolitan police have been passed details by the Home Office of "several hundred" members of the SS Galician division, which has been blamed for numerous humanitarian atrocities and who may be alive in Britain. They also have the names of the Auschwitz guards which were uncovered by an amateur historian. Dr Stephen Ankier stumbled across the names while researching what happened to family members during the Second World War.
It is understood that some of the suspects from the SS Galician division, also known as the 14th Waffen-SS and largely made up of Ukrainians, may only have been teenagers, too young and too lowly to have been included on official military lists…………
The Labour MP for Hendon said: "These people should never be allowed to sleep easy in their beds."


Do you agree with him, or not?
Does it make any sense to prosecute Nazi war criminals almost 60 years after the WW2, and especially those Ukrainians who were then in their teens and might have been forced into the SS?
Or is it right, that as long there is a person alive who had responsibilty, and even it was the slightest, for the Holocaust, one should pursue him or her?

Is this just a pointless act of revenge, and will neither help victims nor justice, or do you believe, like I do, that it is never too late to bring war criminals to court ?


Edited by Komnenos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 13:02
2000's already, Israel drop bombs on tents of palestinian refugees or israeli soldiers take snipe shots at whatever target they like.... in the past the've assasinated any german officer target they deemed as guilty.. and so on.. ironically reminds some of the things that the germans did to them..

There are many more unhumane people in the west and the east than the SS so I dont think they should be taken to court or made to pay for crimes committed 60 years ago being tied politically to a party, otherwise it might lead to similar cases sprouting up the place..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 13:16
If they can get them easily they shouldn't hesistate to arrest them. But for the rest they'd better try to put current war criminals in jail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 15:20
That is absurd to go after them now.  Isn't there anything better they can do with their time, effort, and money?!  It is also very wrong just to snipe them off at will.  But what are you going to do; look at the World we live in now aways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 15:44
Originally posted by Thegeneral Thegeneral wrote:

That is absurd to go after them now.  Isn't there anything better they can do with their time, effort, and money?!  It is also very wrong just to snipe them off at will.  But what are you going to do; look at the World we live in now aways.



But as long as there are former inmates of Concentration Camps alive, who never had the chance to get away from the horrors they witnessed, why should we allow the people who committed those horrors to get away with it?

Edited by Komnenos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 15:55
Originally posted by Komnenos Komnenos wrote:

Originally posted by Thegeneral Thegeneral wrote:

That is absurd to go after them now. Isn't there anything better they can do with their time, effort, and money?! It is also very wrong just to snipe them off at will. But what are you going to do; look at the World we live in now aways.



But as long as there are former inmates of Concentration Camps alive, who never had the chance to get away from the horrors they witnessed, why should we allow the people who committed those horrors to get away with it?


I agree: these people should pay for their crimes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 16:35

Question is, are they criminals. What specific acts did they individually do. Just being a camp guard or member of the SS especially as a young conscripted teen late in the war doesn't make you a war criminal.

To answer Komnenos' question. I agree with Baracuda. To go after these people in the face of so many worse people in our own countries active either now or within the last few years is the worst kind of hypocracy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 17:34
Quote But as long as there are former inmates of Concentration Camps alive, who never had the chance to get away from the horrors they witnessed, why should we allow the people who committed those horrors to get away with it?


When you murder a murderer, and paint a bullseye on generations that come from his bloodline, his family who have nothing to do with these events... and cause them to be witnesses of this murder, and also guilty ashamed for carrying his blood, then sorry but what makes the survivor of the concentration-camp so righteous?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 17:43
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

Question is, are they criminals. What specific acts did they individually do. Just being a camp guard or member of the SS especially as a young conscripted teen late in the war doesn't make you a war criminal.



This question should then be answered by a court of justice. Each case should be dealt with individually, and if there is enough evidence to prosecute them, let the courts decide if they are guilty or not.

Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:



To go after these people in the face of so many worse people in our own countries active either now or within the last few years is the worst kind of hypocracy.



Don't understand this argument at all!
To pursue Nazi war criminals and those who committed atrocities in the decades after the war isn't mutually exclusive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 18:53
Originally posted by Komnenos Komnenos wrote:

Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

Question is, are they criminals. What specific acts did they individually do. Just being a camp guard or member of the SS especially as a young conscripted teen late in the war doesn't make you a war criminal.



This question should then be answered by a court of justice. Each case should be dealt with individually, and if there is enough evidence to prosecute them, let the courts decide if they are guilty or not.

My point is, is there a case? Until specific events can be attributed to individuals no charges can be pressed. You can't just say they're war criminals because they were in the SS.



Originally posted by Komnenos Komnenos wrote:

Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:



To go after these people in the face of so many worse people in our own countries active either now or within the last few years is the worst kind of hypocracy.



Don't understand this argument at all!
To pursue Nazi war criminals and those who committed atrocities in the decades after the war isn't mutually exclusive.

 

I'll make myself more clear. In the face of people running our own countries doing similar acts now and it being totally ignored is hypocracy. It's little more than political con. While you're hating a brainwahsed 16 year bemused and obeying noisy sergeant in the SS, you're closing your ears to Guantanamo Bay.

Why do you think Hollywood continually make WWII movie after WWII movie nowadays, milking an issue in the distant past. It's a diversion from addressing  modern issues which would make the country look bad.



Edited by Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 19:02
Well, in Russia still live people who were executioners of polish officers in Katyn. Some of them maybe even got medals from Putin during last aniversary of victory over Germany.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 20:10
Well they deffinitly shouldn't do what Canada did (or wants to do), deport them withought trial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 09:38
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:




I'll make myself more clear. In the face of people running our own countries doing similar acts now and it being totally ignored is hypocracy. It's little more than political con. While you're hating a brainwahsed 16 year bemused and obeying noisy sergeant in the SS, you're closing your ears to Guantanamo Bay.




Paul,

Going after people who committed crimes against humanity in the past is a promise to current and future victims that the criminals will be punished.

Tracking and punishing war criminals is extremely hard. These people are routinely granted political amnesties after the sponsoring regime falls. Many change their names, move to other countries, and start new lives.

Look at the Argentines involved in the dirty war of the 1970s. It was just last week that their amnesty was declared null. Most of the men who kidnapped, tortured, and killed thousands of political enemies are in their sixties now.

Or look at Pinochet. It is going on 20 years after he lost the presidency, and it is still hard to bring him to trial.

Justice has to be served.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 09:42
Quote Justice has to be served.


Interesting how much of the EU populace will that ideology take away.... there are so many people with bloody hands..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 11:52
Originally posted by baracuda baracuda wrote:

Quote Justice has to be served.


Interesting how much of the EU populace will that ideology take away.... there are so many people with bloody hands..


I never said that American should have immunity, did I? Besides, you would be surprise by the few numbers that actually have been involved on these acts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 17:45
Originally posted by hugoestr hugoestr wrote:

Or look at Pinochet. It is going on 20 years after he lost the presidency, and it is still hard to bring him to trial.
Justice has to be served.


It might be too late, Pinochet suffered a second stroke today!
I'm gonna send him a "Get well" card, so if there any Spanish speakers here, could you please translate the following text for me:
"Dear General, with all my heart I wish you a speedy and full recovery, in the hope that you can answer the accusations made against you and will receive the judgement you so rightly deserve. With best wishes for your health,Komnenos."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 18:54

Estimado General, con todo el corazón que deseo usted una recuperación rápida y repleta, en la esperanza que usted puede contestar las acusaciones hecha contra usted y recibirá el juicio que usted tan merece correctamente. Saludos para su salud, Komnenos.

There you go!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 18:58
Originally posted by Thegeneral Thegeneral wrote:

Estimado General, con todo el corazón que deseo usted una recuperación rápida y repleta, en la esperanza que usted puede contestar las acusaciones hecha contra usted y recibirá el juicio que usted tan merece correctamente. Saludos para su salud, Komnenos.


There you go!



Thanks a lot! I'll sent it of tomorrow!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 19:08

I agree.

Originally posted by baracuda baracuda wrote:

2000's already, Israel drop bombs on tents of palestinian refugees or israeli soldiers take snipe shots at whatever target they like.... in the past the've assasinated any german officer target they deemed as guilty.. and so on.. ironically reminds some of the things that the germans did to them..

There are many more unhumane people in the west and the east than the SS so I dont think they should be taken to court or made to pay for crimes committed 60 years ago being tied politically to a party, otherwise it might lead to similar cases sprouting up the place..

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