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Forum LockedNazi-Japanese relation...

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    Posted: 24-Sep-2007 at 12:08
Why did they bother to sign nonaggression pact between Empire of Japan and Nazi Germany? None of them would gain anything, since they are so far away from each other. I understand nonaggression pact with Soviets, but why with Japanese?
     
   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 23:55

you are right , i seems really unnessacery. i guess Germany was hoping Japan would assist them in the invasion, but if they were sucessful Japan would definately ask for lands and there'll be disputes, nonaggression pact was signed to avoid dispute which may distroy their alliance. The plan failed to work out when Japan turned their target to the Pacific region instead.



Edited by Siege Tower - 26-Sep-2007 at 23:56
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 00:41
Same enemies, the British Empire and the States, and these are the two main adversaries of both as it turned out.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 10:29
IIRC Japan never really cared for the Germans, although the Germans considered Japan their unofficial allies.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Giannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 12:39
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

IIRC Japan never really cared for the Germans, although the Germans considered Japan their unofficial allies.
 
At the begining,  germans considered China with it's dedicated abti-communist leader Chiang Kai Check, as their unofficial ally. Only after the japanese military successes, Nazi Germany changed its ''bet'' in the Asian arena. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 19:34
Originally posted by Giannis

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

IIRC Japan never really cared for the Germans, although the Germans considered Japan their unofficial allies.
 
At the begining,  germans considered China with it's dedicated abti-communist leader Chiang Kai Check, as their unofficial ally. Only after the japanese military successes, Nazi Germany changed its ''bet'' in the Asian arena. 
 
Again, why bother supporting some "inferior race" half a world away? Wouldn't Germans want to keep the Asian powers to be scattered and divided for their later attack?
 
Originally posted by Sparten

Same enemies, the British Empire and the States, and these are the two main adversaries of both as it turned out.
 
That doesn't mean Hitler has to bother signing pact with Japan officially. This wouldn't look good to the Allies, and Hitler wanted total surprise. Painting the image of Japanese, Russians and Germans working together wouldn't look on any nations ensuing peace.
 
Originally posted by Siege Tower

you are right , i seems really unnessacery. i guess Germany was hoping Japan would assist them in the invasion, but if they were sucessful Japan would definately ask for lands and there'll be disputes, nonaggression pact was signed to avoid dispute which may distroy their alliance. The plan failed to work out when Japan turned their target to the Pacific region instead.

 
When the nonaggression pact was signed, I don't see how it would have benefit Germans. Hitler didn't even believe that he could finish off France, nevermind Britain and US. Japanese land armies were outdated, not well trained and assisting attack to USSR or US would prove to be futile. After confronting Red Army twice before WWII, Empire of Japan knows better than to sacrifice tens of thousands of Japanese troops to fight for freezing Siberia.
     
   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2007 at 16:53

What few people realize is that, Nazi Germany had constant  changing Racial theories and benchmarks. They toyed with Nordicism and Germanism on and off, but even from the very Racist minds they employed, were claiming that Germany wasnt fully Nordic, Hitler opted to abandon the Nordic concept entirely and it was phased outve politics by the mid to late 30,s surviving only in the top echelons of the SS..as time and the war progressed, it was completely abandoned.

 
Hitler also primarily used the term "Aryan" far more often.
 
 
This picture shows the son of the chinese nationalist leader Chiang Kai Shek, Chiang Wei Guo. He got his military education in Nazi-Germany and participated in the invasion of Poland in 1939 with the rank of lieutenant.
 
 
Here's an excellent site:


Edited by Tyranos - 05-Oct-2007 at 16:57
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2007 at 19:18
Seriously, what 'non-aggression pact'?
 
Germany, Italy and Japan signed the so-called Tripartitie alliance on September 17 1940, and Hitler at least considered the alliance to be a mutual defence pact, which is the ground on which he declared war on the US, after the US declared war on Japan, after the attack on Pearl Harbour.
 
Strategically it was mostly concerned with what should happen if the US intervened against any of the signers, though apparently the Japanese took their commitment to intervene if the US entered the European war less seriously than Hitler took his.
 
 
 
I think there is some confusion here with the German-Soviet non-aggression pact of 1939.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2007 at 23:12
Actually, gcle2003, I am fairly sure of the relation between Empire of Japan and Nazi Germany. I can't be certain if it was nonaggression pact, but I do remember the huge diappointment and cry for threachery from Empire of Japan when Nazi Germany signed nonaggression pact with USSR. Maybe because Japanese thought Germans will help out for later invasion??? Don't know... I will have to look into this one...
     
   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2007 at 01:08
Originally posted by Tyranos

What few people realize is that, Nazi Germany had constant  changing Racial theories and benchmarks. They toyed with Nordicism and Germanism on and off, but even from the very Racist minds they employed, were claiming that Germany wasnt fully Nordic, Hitler opted to abandon the Nordic concept entirely and it was phased outve politics by the mid to late 30,s surviving only in the top echelons of the SS..as time and the war progressed, it was completely abandoned.

 
Hitler also primarily used the term "Aryan" far more often.
 
 
This picture shows the son of the chinese nationalist leader Chiang Kai Shek, Chiang Wei Guo. He got his military education in Nazi-Germany and participated in the invasion of Poland in 1939 with the rank of lieutenant.
 
 
Here's an excellent site:
Excellent point.  Realpolitik.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2007 at 20:24
Originally posted by pekau

Why did they bother to sign nonaggression pact between Empire of Japan and Nazi Germany? None of them would gain anything, since they are so far away from each other. I understand nonaggression pact with Soviets, but why with Japanese?


Three words: Two front war.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 19:19
Originally posted by TranHungDao

Originally posted by pekau

Why did they bother to sign nonaggression pact between Empire of Japan and Nazi Germany? None of them would gain anything, since they are so far away from each other. I understand nonaggression pact with Soviets, but why with Japanese?


Three words: Two front war.
 
One phrase: Are you serious?
 
I don't think Germans were seriously thinking about Japanese support when they move into Russia. The best thing they could do is to bomb Port Arthur and freeze Russian fleet in the Asian bodies of water, but I don't see how that would help out the Germans. Most of the Japanese land forces were policing China, and Japanese generals would be reluctant about invasion against Russians. After all, they still remember how badly they were massacred when they moved into Mongol. And even if they push the Russians, they need to bypass freezing Siberia. Why do that when they could easily expand to Southeastern Asia? Most of the Asians hated European Imperialism and would welcome Japanese intervention, as they did in the beginning of Japanese expansions. Japanese soldiers are more suited in climate and environment in Asia rather than Northern Russian soil. The diplomacy between USSR and Japan was relatively better off compared to Japanese relations with USA and Britain. I mean, Japan dropped out of the League of Nations, colonized China despite their warnings and cut oil exports to Japan. USA didn't even recognized Japanese occupation in Manchuria, nevermind other regions in China.
 
 
     
   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 20:12
no he stands correct, the idea behind the alliance with Japan was a two fronts war against the Soviet Union. Germany first had China (KMT) in mind but after 1937 it was obvious that japan was a better horse to bet on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheMysticNomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 08:57

I don't understand why you are even asking the question to begin with.

Look, the Germans and the Japanese signed a treaty to enter into an alliance.  Obviously, they must have thought it was the right thing to do, otherwise they would not have done it.  Initially, the alliance served them both for a while, as they both were able to expand their empires greatly as a result.  I guess that means it was a strategic alliance, doesn't it?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 09:28
It was not a non-aggression pact but an actual alliance that was particularly directed against the Soviets. During the time Japan had two military plans, one was from the Army which suggests to invade Russia and claim its untapped natural resources and the other from the Navy which suggests taking the the rich Dutch Indies to provide the necessary resources. However after some border conflicts with the Soviets, the Japanese found out that it isnt such a good idea to invade Russia, so the Japanese decided that the Navy's plan was the best which resulted in the events of Pearl Harbor and so forth...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ricecake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 13:52
 
It was Nazi ideology mastermind Karl Ernst Haushofer peddled the idea of German & Japan Alliance according to one program aired on cable TV History Channel in the USA.He imagined some cultural similiarities in his travels to Japan.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 14:12
You bet. Haushofer was the mastermind behind the similarities between Japan and Germany, and the idea of a universal "aryan" rule. The SS itself was modelled after the Society of Black Dragons, or something like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 01:07
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

IIRC Japan never really cared for the Germans, although the Germans considered Japan their unofficial allies.


I agree completely.   There is a huge misperception about the nature of the relationship between NAZI Germany and Imperial Japan.

The relationship was never a true "alliance", rather, it was simply an understanding of common "concerns".   Before the war, the two countries were polite but distant to each other.  Part of this was due to the German support of right wing Chinese forces fighting Japanese troops.   In addition, many Japanese  leaders accurately viewed Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels and other senior NAZIS as uncultured street thugs who happened to be leading a nation.

During the war, Germany and Japan made no effort  to coordinate strategies.   Instead, they insisted on charging each other for what little strategic material they could send to each other.  German U Boats, at great risk, sailed all the way to Malaysia to establish a base.  The Japanese reception, though cordial was not exactly warm.   Following the German surrender, the Japanese wasted no time placing all Germans in Japan under house arrest.





Edited by Cryptic - 31-Dec-2007 at 05:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 11:47
Originally posted by TranHungDao

Three words: Two front war.
 
Exactly, why don't people understand this? Had America declared war on Germany or Japan America would face its worst nightmare, a two-ocean war.


Edited by andrew - 10-Jan-2008 at 11:47
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 18:53
nah, it was directed against the USSR, not america.
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