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Forum LockedNader Shah’s attempt at reconciling

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Zagros View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 13:26

Shi'ism and Sunnism, all I have read was that he attempted to do this for political reasons (if he ousted the Ottomans and the merging of their empire would be made easier), but this went down badly with Shi'ite Iran which had been largely converted to Shi'ism by his Safavid predecessors.

Does anyone have more information on this?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 10:12
 Good topic Zagros,Nader shah is my favorite character in history he fought for shisim and forced the sunnis to recognized it before him all shia were unwelcomed people in all islamic country because of the relgious racism in the Najaf confrence all sunnis recognized shia as the fifth part of islamic and about it went badly with shia of iran what you mean and in which side ,which time present day or past
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 10:16
 He put shia in a higher rankes and made them real people after genicodes and bad treatment  by all islamic goverment he made the balance of power again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shahanshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 11:38

Wasn't Nader Shah a sonni torkoman??

he made Iran an officially a secular state, he dropped shiasim from that, to gain support from sonnies in ottoman empire, specially the kurds, he faught major battles in Kars, and kirkuk. Battle of Kirkuk was the most decisive battle in the 18th century.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 12:14

Actually his ethnic origin is not 100% clear, as a child he was kidnapped by Uzbeks as a slave from Khorassan, he escaped and joined the Afshar tribe.

reconcile, I mean that he wanted to settle the differences between sunni and shia and then unite them so that he could absorb the Ottoman Empire with ease (culturally).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 12:36
He got huge support of (in that time) Ottoman Alevi's (mostly Turkmen 90%), and he is a great person of the Iranian People. Its like how we have Atatürk, Nadir shah is a guy like that for the Iranians
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 13:01

Nader Shah was a Turkmen, just like the rest of Turkmens. Nadir Kuli Beg was born in Khorasan, which is a region still full of Turkmens. Uzbegs kidnapped him because his father was dead. And Afshars are a Turkmen tribe.

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reconcile, I mean that he wanted to settle the differences between sunni and shia and then unite them so that he could absorb the Ottoman Empire with ease (culturally).

Absorb Ottoman Empire culturally? That is not only nonsense, but funny. Ottomans werent only 400 tents of Turkmens conquering everywhere they reach. Ottoman Empire was a unique civilization of its own. If it somehow could unite with the Safavid Empire, Persians would become just a subject of the multiethnical Empire, such as Albanians or Armenians.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 14:10

He had ambitions and one was to absorb the Sunni Ottoman Empire and he wanted to reconcile Shi'ism with Sunism so that there would not be a religious clash if he was successful.

I take it you have not seen the extent of his conquests?

He joined the Afshar tribe when he escaped fromt he Uzbeks.

Why do you try and turn everything into an ethnic pissing fest, Oguz? Did anyone talk about Turks and Persians and Armenians? NO, I was discussing the attempts or theory of unification of two empires through religious reconciliation, regardless.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 23:01
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Shi'ism and Sunnism, all I have read was that he attempted to do this for political reasons (if he ousted the Ottomans and the merging of their empire would be made easier), but this went down badly with Shi'ite Iran which had been largely converted to Shi'ism by his Safavid predecessors.

Does anyone have more information on this?

All I know is that suspicion from him that people wanted to kill him were high.  He taxed heavily the population and killed dissenters, even blinded his son.  His motives might have been genuine, but his tactics seem to backfire on him when finally his own Turkemn Qezelbaash behead him. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 01:13

from wikipedia

Nadir Shah (Nadir Qoli Beg, also Tahmasp-Qoli Khan) (October 22, 1688 - June, 1747) ruled as shah of Iran (173647) and was the founder of the short-lived Afsharid dynasty. Some historians described him by his military genius as the Napoleon of Persia or the Second Alexander. He created a great Iranian Empire with boundaries from the Indus River to the Caucasus Mountains (north) and India (east). Nadir Shah is probably the last great Asian military conqueror.

He was born in the Dastgerd region of Khorasan, a province of Iran. His father, a poor peasant, died while Nadir was still a child. Nadir and his mother were carried off as slaves by marauding Uzbeg tribesmen, but Nadir managed to escape. He joined a band of brigands while still a boy and eventually advanced to become their leader. Later he found refuge with the Turkic Afshar tribe, where, under the patronage of Afshar chieftains, he rose through the ranks to a powerful military leader.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 05:42
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Why do you try and turn everything into an ethnic pissing fest, Oguz? Did anyone talk about Turks and Persians and Armenians? NO, I was discussing the attempts or theory of unification of two empires through religious reconciliation, regardless.

I am not. Expressing my idea shouldnt be judged so. But I really found it funny, what could I say?

No doubt Nadir Shah was a Great leader for his Empire and Iranians. He was the most obvious hero figure in recent Iranian history. He was a fine conquerer and leader. But absorbing Ottoman Empire, is like Canada absorbing USA. I said if the empires united, Persians would become just a subject like Armenians, Albanians, Turkmens etc. What kind of offensive element could you get from such sentence?

Religious reconciliation was a dream in my opinion. How much Shias did Safavid Empire had? I bet it wasnt even over the number of Orthodox subject Ottoman Empire had. So simply, Shia Iranians would become a religious millet in the empire's system, rather than uniting two sects.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 06:15
YEs it was an idea or dream he had, he didn't once lose a battle, he wanted to reconvert Iran to some form of sunism, he never once lost a battle, he was planning a proper attack on the Ottomans.
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