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Forum LockedMyths about the Americas

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    Posted: 19-Nov-2008 at 23:40
Ever wonder if the Lost Tribe of Israel came to the New World? Did "El dorado" exist? Did Ponce de Leon found the "fountaint of Youth"? It is true that Nazis made a military base in Patagonia and later enter to the holed earth through the hole in the Antartida? Do Yetis live in the U.S. forests? What about the pirate treasures of the Caribbean?  
 
In short, do you want to know more about those amazing myths that cover all over the Americas?
 
Please, let's us discuss them in this thread.


Edited by pinguin - 19-Nov-2008 at 23:41
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2008 at 15:29
El-dorado could be many things. I could be a myth told to the Spaniards to put them off track, I could be the Inka capital, as it is said to have had gold everywhere, until it was removed to pay for the Inka.
 
There are some un-found treasures, I believe, as some of them have been found. Although it has been sunken ships mostly, some have also been found on land.
 
What ever happened to the find on the Crusoe island, by the way? It was assumed to be enormous, but the finders weren't allowed to dig it op, or something? Was there a treasure at all? It was all over the news, so it seems strange that nothing seems to have happened since. Maybe it was some kind of hoax?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2008 at 18:41
The treasure of Robinson Crusoe Island? Well, there aren't news so far. Not good or bad news at all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 11:10
Johnny Appleseed? Bigfoot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 12:23

Yeap. But wasn't Johnny Appleseed a real character?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 14:00
Yeap, He was. And an amazing character, indeed:
 
 
Johnny Appleseed, born John Chapman (September 26, 1774 – February 18, 1845), was an American pioneer nurseryman who introduced apple trees to large parts of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, mainly Ohio. He became an American legend while still alive, largely because of his kind and generous ways, his great leadership in conservation, and the symbolic importance of apples.
 
From Disney's
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 06:32

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Did "El dorado" exist?  

This one, it's supposed, comes from the kingdom of the Muisca. That whole region (Colombia) was filled with Chibcha-speaking minor kingdoms, all of whom were amazing goldsmiths and valued gold highly, for religious/magical reasons. The Muisca used to have a special ritual where their king was covered in gold dust, loaded with gold artifacts, and sent out in the middle of a sacred lake on a raft to make offerings to the gods of all the gold artifacts (by tossing them in the lake). Apparently these ceremonies involved alot of gold. It's thought that the legend originally refers to the Muisca and this particular practice. The Spaniards couldn't find it because they didn't keep their gold, they chucked it into the lake, and its not recoverable by any normal means (even today they still haven't been able to drain the lake to get at it).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 14:46
Ok, that could be an explanation. I believe it is more reasonable to assume that the locals just told of a big city of gold, just in order to lead the Spaniards astray, away from the real cities of importance. But there are many possibilities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 15:22

Yes, I saw somewhere that explanation about "El Dorado". It is curious, though, that the region of Colombia you mention is very famous because theirs precolumbian golden pieces, that are preserved by the thousand in museums, guarded all the day long. I have seen such pieces and I have found them superb.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 15:39
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Yeap, He was. And an amazing character, indeed:
 
 
Johnny Appleseed, born John Chapman (September 26, 1774 – February 18, 1845), was an American pioneer nurseryman who introduced apple trees to large parts of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, mainly Ohio. He became an American legend while still alive, largely because of his kind and generous ways, his great leadership in conservation, and the symbolic importance of apples.
 
I didn't know that. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 16:10
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Yeap, He was. And an amazing character, indeed:
 
 
Johnny Appleseed, born John Chapman (September 26, 1774 – February 18, 1845), was an American pioneer nurseryman who introduced apple trees to large parts of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, mainly Ohio. He became an American legend while still alive, largely because of his kind and generous ways, his great leadership in conservation, and the symbolic importance of apples.
 
I didn't know that. Thanks.
 
No one "introduced" Apples, They were here from the start, a native plant.  What Chapman did was establish a program of Hybridization and sold trees that were more suitable for specific regions and growing zones.
In reality, the "Johnny Appleseed" story is a myth, an invention.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 16:18
apples native to the Americas? That's new to me and I got curious.
Yes, some plants of the Old World there were also present in the Americas (cotton for instance), but most didn't. It called my attention, for instance, that grape parrs existed in North America before Columbus, which is weird to me, because South America didn' have grapes. Now, you tell me that apples are also pre-columbian in North America, while in here didn't exist either! Just show me some evidence... please!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 17:37
Ping,  It's interesting that in every article I have dug up the Apple is always referenced in terms of Europe or the old world.  They are speaking of the "modern" apple, and in almost every case dismiss the native species as "crabapples" or some other derogatory term.
 
In one article, from a respected "expert" the Crabapple is described as being inedible.  Tell that to my grandmother who, had several crabapple trees collected from the wild, from which she made the most amazing preserves.
 
This is one time I'll agree with you on the Eurocentrist thing.
 
From a doctoral research paper, Cornell U.
 
 
Before foreign apples were introduced, wild species were growing throughout much of eastern and western North America. Although less familiar than grocery store apples, these native American species persist in the wild.
       
       Plant taxonomists may argue over the number of apples native to North America, but most agree that there are four major species. Three eastern species are very similar to one another and are quite distinct from the single western species. Based on similarities in morphology, the western species is believed to be most closely related to apples native to China. In contrast, the three eastern species probably have affinities with apples from the Middle East and are thought to have split off early in the evolution of the genus Malus.
 
If I want the rest of it I have to join the site.Big%20smile Ain't happening.
 
 
My main texts and reference books on plant taxonomy are back in my classroom so I'm doing this by memory. Tongue Two of the four species native to NA are, P. Malus Coronaria and P. Malus Angustifolia.
Wish I had more, but that should be enough to convince you.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 18:21
You bet! That's a great information. I was really surprise of it, though. As I told you we don't have here native apples, so I wasn't aware they could exist in the U.S. That's quite interesting to know.
Only recently I become aware of American grapes, wild rice, and now American apples. The Americas are an endless series of surprises.
Just a surprise for you know, did you know strawberries main genetical origin is chilean? Yeap, the appearence and flaworing of that plant is also from the Americas, and this time from my country.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tore The Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 21:24
How is it nowdays whit LLANGANATI ? 750 tonnes of Inca Gold.
 
And Orellanas *Amazones* in Amazonriver ,  Virgenes del Sol or Luna or booth ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 21:41
750,000 pounds, it says in some sources - so it's "only" half. Some internet sources do say 750 tons, so I wonder what the original source says.  Still an unfathomable amount of gold in any case.

Edited by Jams - 23-Nov-2008 at 21:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 00:01
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

apples native to the Americas? That's new to me and I got curious.
Yes, some plants of the Old World there were also present in the Americas (cotton for instance), but most didn't.
The New World cotton wasn't the same species though - it's better (90%+ of all modern cotton crops are of the New World species, globally).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 03:57
You bet. American cotton is better than Old World's. They same is true with strawberries, whose American variety is the main contributor to the modern hybrids.
 
In the case of wine, though, I am afraid European grapes are better. Too bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 04:31
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

You bet. American cotton is better than Old World's. They same is true with strawberries, whose American variety is the main contributor to the modern hybrids.
 
In the case of wine, though, I am afraid European grapes are better. Too bad.
 
Not an expert by any means, but I've had some Chilean wines that were outstanding.  The European export wines have gone up in price and down in quality.[That last statement was merely a statement of personal opinion. So chill.]
 
That friend I once mentioned, the doctor from Chile, turned us on to really fine Chilean wine.  


Edited by red clay - 24-Nov-2008 at 04:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 09:08
But isn't that based on imported European grapes?
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