History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedMuslim/Islamic Women

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Zheng-ru View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 17:15
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Zheng-ru
Sometimes, truth can be objective. E.g., there either are or are not laws that limit women's freedoms.


These laws may apply for individual countries, it does however represent Islam or all muslims.


Individual states may have draconian laws and violate woman's rights but this isn't just something applicable to countries which are majority muslim.


The post is about muslim woman Zheng, not laws of certain countries.



No, they do NOT represent all Muslims!

You seem to be contradicting yourself a little here.

Yes it is, but since you mentioned that, I assume then that you have not read all the posts, as I did.

I will then explain what laws have to do with this...
This thread started with the mention of women having to wear burkas, then someone said that perhaps the western view (media) is only making it seem forced and oppressive, then I said that is not true, that women do not want to be obliged to wear so much clothing (I am not talking about the hijab here, you understand), and I also mentioned that they do not have equal rights, and just to prove it, I brought some laws into the discussion. The laws are only a minor point here. So do not tell me the matter at hand here, I am fully aware of it.

I wrote "E.g." for a good reason.

- Zheng-ru

Edited by Zheng-ru - 03-Mar-2007 at 20:48
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
Back to Top
Zheng-ru View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 17:44
Omar al Hashim, I like the satire, although its meaning is very serious and unfortunate. In addition to my previous points that you have not yet answered, I have more questions, I hope you do not mind...

From the article:

"Women who break this rule face harsh penalties. Sarah, a victim of such injustices, told me the specifics. As punishment for wearing non-revealing clothing, she is deemed unattractive and given unequal treatment by her employers. She says she is not considered ‘normal’."

What a terrible penalty, no?

Point is, she would be much more appreciated by others for her strong personality and lack of conformity.

And:

"Seeing all this, I am aware that Australian women are denied the rights that are basic to any Muslim woman. What concerns me, though, is whether or not they are aware of that fact."

Yes, and SOME Muslim women are denied the basic rights (different kinds of rights, of course) that these Australian women have.

I have friends who care not for such dress codes and other expectations of society, it is a matter of will, I think.

- Zheng-ru
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Location: Snowy-Highlands
Status: Offline
Points: 5725
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 05:29
The point of my argument is not to argue about any particular country or any particular case. I didn't reply to your other points because we were headed down this path. The point of my argument is to highlight that the press the womens rights recieve in the west is far worse than the reality.

Sure there are some people who don't get their rights, sure there are some countries with some dubious laws. But thats exactly the same to non-muslim countries too. When people stir up hatred toward a people, they often pick on their womens rights. The last article was a satire, but I've heard other people attack western womens rights for serious.

Whats disappointing is when people actually start to buy into the demonization of the 'other'
Quote then someone said that perhaps the western view (media) is only making it seem forced and oppressive, then I said that is not true, that women do not want to be obliged to wear so much clothing (I am not talking about the nijab here, you understand)

The only countries that have forced the wearing of Burkas are Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan under the Taliban. Both impose(d) similar dress restrictions on men - but lets not think about that because it doesn't help the anti-women ME case, eh?
"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor
Back to Top
The Hidden Face View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Ustad-i Azam

Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 1381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 06:14
Guys, poverty, ignorance, feodalism, medievalism, oriental racism and sexism these are the problems of the Middle east. Be a reformist, instead of putting irrelevant propagandas.
 
Islam is itself NOT the source of the problem.
Back to Top
Zheng-ru View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 20:50
Originally posted by The Hidden Face The Hidden Face wrote:

Guys, poverty, ignorance, feodalism, medievalism, oriental racism and sexism these are the problems of the Middle east. Be a reformist, instead of putting irrelevant propagandas.

Islam is itself NOT the source of the problem.



Of course not, you are right, but perhaps "extremist" Islam is the source of the problem.

- Zheng-ru

Edited by Zheng-ru - 03-Mar-2007 at 20:58
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
Back to Top
Zheng-ru View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 20:58
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

The point of my argument is not to argue about any particular country or any particular case. I didn't reply to your other points because we were headed down this path. The point of my argument is to highlight that the press the womens rights recieve in the west is far worse than the reality.Sure there are some people who don't get their rights, sure there are some countries with some dubious laws. But thats exactly the same to non-muslim countries too. When people stir up hatred toward a people, they often pick on their womens rights. The last article was a satire, but I've heard other people attack western womens rights for serious.Whats disappointing is when people actually start to buy into the demonization of the 'other'
Quote then someone said that perhaps the western view (media) is only making
it seem forced and oppressive, then I said that is not true, that women
do not want to be obliged to wear so much clothing (I am not talking
about the hijab here, you understand)
The only countries that have forced the wearing of Burkas are Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan under the Taliban. Both impose(d) similar dress restrictions on men - but lets not think about that because it doesn't help the anti-women ME case, eh?



Ah, you are right, but I was under the impression that your point was that "[you] don't think womens freedom of expression or speech is limited any more than a mans is." And when you said the following, it was not about the sometimes corrupt western media: "Exactly which social status is unique to arab or irani women?"

Anyways, As I said before, I do not refer only to "western sources" for my information, I also refer to Al-Jazeera.

Doesn't Iran force a strict dress restriction upon women as well? But we are not only talking about dress regulations that are not equal here.

Edited by Zheng-ru - 03-Mar-2007 at 21:04
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
Back to Top
cahaya View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
The Auror

Joined: 05-Oct-2005
Location: Malaysia
Status: Offline
Points: 1263
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cahaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2007 at 15:09

Originally posted by Morty Morty wrote:

Hi Cahaya! We are discussing Muslim women's rights. Some feel that Muslim women have the same rights as men and others don't. I mentioned that I thought western women were afforded more opportunities and rights than in the east, but others disagreed and said that Muslim women are satisfied with their ways. You are Muslim, Cahaya. What can you tell us about the rights of women in Eastern culture as opposed to women in Western culture?

see this article:-
 
I cant answer ur question on behalf of other muslim women.. as.. everybody have their own situation, culture, norms and etc which they have to deal with beside the religion factors...
 
but for myself... in Malaysia... i dont have tht kind of probs. which most of westerns thought there is some problem tht a muslim woman is facing.
i started my education since i was 6 years old(as pre-school start at 6 yrs old) until i graduated. noone stop me to expand my knowledge.. even now.. i am furthering my study. i have my own career. i live alone in my apartment with a stinky turtle. i drive my own car and i did buy my dad a second hand car (cheap one!!) just to make my parents life easier. nothing stopping me from having these all.. so wht's the issue?
 
i believe the discrimination or oppress on women is not about wht religion or faith a woman has. Check on Hindu people in India... how bad women are treated there...  Look at those Thai women... Philipines.. they are not muslims but they've been in much worst condition thn muslim women. everywhere in this planet earth regadless wht religion they are... women will be discriminated and exploited... because of one gud reason ... men.. men.. men... male... male.. male..


Edited by cahaya - 05-Mar-2007 at 15:10
Back to Top
Zheng-ru View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2007 at 16:52
Thank you for your insight Cahaya, I assure you that I have nothing to do with women being discriminated and exploited, on the contrary; I discourage oppression of women in any form.

Sincerely,

Zheng-ru
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
Back to Top
morticia View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar
AE Editor

Joined: 09-Aug-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2080
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 15:40
Originally posted by cahaya cahaya wrote:

Originally posted by Morty Morty wrote:


Hi Cahaya! We are discussing Muslim women's rights. Some feel that Muslim women have the same rights as men and others don't. I mentioned that I thought western women were afforded more opportunities and rights than in the east, but others disagreed and said that Muslim women are satisfied with their ways. You are Muslim, Cahaya. What can you tell us about the rights of women in Eastern culture as opposed to women in Western culture?


see this article:-


 

I cant answer ur question on behalf of other muslim women.. as.. everybody have their own situation, culture, norms and etc which they have to deal with beside the religion factors...

 

but for myself... in Malaysia... i dont have tht kind of probs. which most of westerns thought there is some problem tht a muslim woman is facing.

i started my education since i was 6 years old(as pre-school start at 6 yrs old) until i graduated. noone stop me to expand my knowledge.. even now.. i am furthering my study. i have my own career. i live alone in my apartment with a stinky turtle. i drive my own car and i did buy my dad a second hand car (cheap one!!) just to make my parents life easier. nothing stopping me from having these all.. so wht's the issue?

 

i believe the discrimination or oppress on women is not about wht religion or faith a woman has. Check on Hindu people in India... how bad women are treated there...  Look at those Thai women... Philipines.. they are not muslims but they've been in much worst condition thn muslim women. everywhere in this planet earth regadless wht religion they are... women will be discriminated and exploited... because of one gud reason ... men.. men.. men... male... male.. male..


Thank you Cahaya! You are a wonderful daughter for helping out your parents. I am so glad that you are an independent woman and are doing what you want to do. Good for you!
"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.