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Forum LockedMughal - Chaghtai (Clan)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheeta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2009 at 19:15
It is the link of your family that you can say about. There have been more Pushtuns in India and Pakistan than Afghanistan, also among the Pushtuns of the Afghan land there are many who do not have links to their parent tribe. For example many Ghilzais are not nomads and live in cities either in Afghanistan and Pakistan totally cut off from their traditional manners. They can not be called as not Ghilzais. Similarly the Pushtuns of Mianwali district of Punjab have adopted Punjabi language and are pathans by their clan which they can mention. Larger groups of population of Pathans have been since long living in India and they are Pathans. No one can deny that.  The Tartars and Turks used to live in Altai Mountains and Gobi desert and used to raise cattle. Now you can not say a Crimean that he is not a Tartar or Erdoghan not a Turk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yas245 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2009 at 12:55
considering my situtation, would you think that a Y-dna test will be usefull and relevant ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheeta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2009 at 15:31
It is not upto the mark or may be I am not used to it as much as the experts. It can be useful to match close family ties but not on a larger scale. You can just compare the body structure, mentality and manners of massess as an easy access.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2009 at 08:40
Originally posted by yas245 yas245 wrote:

Hi, I'm looking for information on the Mughal Clan ; Chaghatai. Who are they and What are Physical characteristics??
Mughal clan - this is the name given by english, or russian, no matter what, those nations who most name as mughals, didn't even know what mughal word mean and didn't identify themselves as mughals... rather identified themselves as turkiy and their country was in Ferghana Valley - administrative territory centered in Andijan city...
 
In terms of physical characteristics you can reffer to Babur's predecessors' - temuriylar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2009 at 08:48
EVERYBODY.... JUST VISIT FERGHANA VALLEY AND YOU WILL SEE WHO HOW MUGHALS LOOKED LIKE AND ETC....
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughal-steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2009 at 06:09
Mughal word comes fron Mongol,a people inhabiting Kerulen river in Mongolia in 9th Century.Later these people ,after defeating Chineese ,moved west and conquered various people thus establishing the worlds largest empire.They were supported by many Turkish ethnic groups as well.Chughtai clan stems from Genghis Khan's second son Chughtai.His descendants rules some parts of central asia for some time but their power was shattered by Ameer Taimur Berlas,who claimed kinship with Genghis Khan.His descendant Babur the Tiger,whose mother was from Chughtai clan emerged from Ferghana and later conquered Afghanistan and India.Berlas were a Mongol people too though later Turkiscized by living with Turks.Ironically his line was wrongly termed  as Chughtai by historians though he never claimed it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughal-steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2009 at 06:31
My dear sir,
I have read all these since I was in Matric and read a lot after that also!
brj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yas245 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2009 at 15:22
Hey, thanks for keeping me informed with information. Anyhow, i have yet been halted in my research due to a certain curiosity. It may be insignificant, though, I'd like to know whether there is any difference(apart from obvious spelling) with the names 'Chaghtai' , 'Chughtai' & 'Chagatta'. ????

I have been told there is a prominent difference between the two former names(in blue) than the latter (in red) . Could any one shed any light on this ?


Edited by yas245 - 13-Mar-2009 at 21:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughal-steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 11:04
Dear Yas,
As far as I know there is no difference.Chagatta is a local form, in rural Punjab,of Chughtai.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughal-steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 11:11
One thing though..Every central asian coming to India was initially called Mughal,whatever his actual race ,by locals.Later,as Babur came from old Chughtai domains,his progeny was called Chughtai by locals.Though Babur was a Berlas.Really a confusing issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 12:24
Babur never referred to himself as a Mongol or any other ethnic term except being a Turk, Mughal, Mongol etc are all misnomers, if you want to know about Babur he wrote an autobiography everything you want to know is in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 15:31
Yes, the book of Babur is felt with pride of being Turk and nostalgia for Ma wara'un-Nahr.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote man2rk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 16:37
Most part of China`s xinjiang province was called as Mughalistan for centuries although the native people are turkic speaking. Here can be found many place names link with mughals. The language of "Baburnameh" is just written in the language of people still living here.
History is something that victors write on the back of losers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yas245 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 21:20
Originally posted by mughal-steel mughal-steel wrote:

Dear Yas,
As far as I know there is no difference.Chagatta is a local form, in rural Punjab,of Chughtai.


I really do think there might be a slight difference. I believed that Chughtai was a unanimous pronounciation, as this is how it is commmonly spelt. Though the slight difference with Chagatta might be in relation to belonging from a more 'central asian' geographical location, and not just a 'rural' form in speech. I hope i have made it clear to understand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughal-steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2009 at 06:54
You have a right to what you believe.I am a Chagatta,hailing from rural Punjab,our counterparts in cities are called Chughtais.Our old folks have kept the traditions alive and make no difference of the two names.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughal-steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2009 at 07:03
As for Babur..his ancestor Taimur claimed kinship with Genghis Khan.Old annals also support this as Barulas Mongols(Barlas)participated in Khawarzim campaigns.There was supposed to be a pact between brothers,Kabul Khan and Kajuli Bahadur,ancestors of Genghis and Taimur on a steel plate.The plate was kept by Taimur and shown to Chughtai ruler of his time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yas245 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2009 at 14:02
I did a quick search on Google and there doesent seem to many search pages on 'Mughal Chaggata'. However there is one Indian Tourism website and it claims :

One Bhatti scion-Gaj Singh had founded the city of Ghazni in Afghanistan but ultimately lost it to forces from Khorasan. One of his grandsons reclaimed Ghazni, embraced Islam, and came to be called Chagattas (Mughals). They later plundered the land of their ancestors between 1000 and 1025 A.D. Again, led by Babar they came to found the Mughal Empire in India.

I don't know the History of Ghazni to comment on that, but a google search on it suggest this story isn't really true. Could you comment on this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2009 at 14:13
My comment is that this paragraph is complete nonsense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2009 at 15:23
Çağataylar ( Çağatays ) were the most caltural (most interested with calture) Turkish tribe.
We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughal-steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2009 at 04:31
Dear Yas..bit farfetched..never heard of it.Yes Chauhans had been present in Afghanistan but Bhattis calling themselves as Chagatta and ruling that region. Babur never even mentioned such people
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