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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:30 |
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There is a discussion on the Mongol invasion to Japan. Is any one interested in discussing Mongols' expedition to Indonesia and the reasons of its failure? Edited by Sarmat12 - 05-Jun-2007 at 23:14 |
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TranHungDao ![]() Shogun ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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Lol, it was another typhoon...
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The quote above actually cites the (german) website immediately below:
1000 ships, so that's approximately 1/4 the size of the fleet sent on
the second invasion of Japan, which numbered about 140,000 men transported by about 4400 ships. Edited by TranHungDao - 03-Jun-2007 at 15:22 |
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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[QUOTE=TranHungDao] Lol, it was another typhoon...
![]() [quote] Looks like that
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Omar al Hashim ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Location: Snowy-Highlands Status: Offline Points: 5725 |
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Ermh
![]() The mongol army landed in Java and defeated the Javanese army. The mongols had the king replaced with one who was expected to me far more servile to the mongols. The Javanese nobility subsequently invited all the mongol leaders to a banquet, it was trickery and the mongol leaders were masacared*. *I wonder if this gave inspiration to "the night of long knifes"? |
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TranHungDao ![]() Shogun ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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I'm vaguely familiar with this version of events. |
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Hulegu Han ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 10-Apr-2007 Location: Mongolia Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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what a bad luck that is! Another typhoon problem happened to Mongols in Java as in Japan. Mmm..interesting and sad story...
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TranHungDao ![]() Shogun ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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You know what they say: A typhoon a day, keeps the Mongols away!
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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pekau ![]() Tsar ![]() ![]() Atlantean Prophet Joined: 08-Oct-2006 Location: Korea, South Status: Offline Points: 3344 |
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Depends... are we talking about Indonesia in terms of modern Indonesia that we know today? If so, it will be tough invasion. Climate is not ideal for Mongolian horses, it's brutally hot compared to Mongol, and Mongolian calvary charge and fast mobility is meaningless in jungles and rainforests. Transportation, communication, supply lines would be stretched and divided by water that would fatally weaken the Mongolians. Heck, why would Mongolians go for Indonesia in the first place? Nothing valuable's in there. They might as well go for China or Persian wealth.
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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Well, Mogols actually invaded Indonesia and it was a very rich country (right in the middle of the trade route between India and China).
But your thoughts about the unfriendly climate sound reasonable anyway. Edited by Sarmat12 - 05-Jun-2007 at 14:31 |
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pekau ![]() Tsar ![]() ![]() Atlantean Prophet Joined: 08-Oct-2006 Location: Korea, South Status: Offline Points: 3344 |
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Indonesia was rich? Sorry, I need to keep up with Southeasern Asian history... but compared to the splendor of Persia and China? Not so sure about that...
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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Yeah, it indeed was rich, for example:
in the 10th century one Circa 903, Muslim writer Ibn Rustah was so impressed with the wealth of Srivijaya's (Srivijaya the strongest kingdom of Indonesia at that time) ruler that he declared one would not hear of a king who was richer, stronger or with more revenue.
Edited by Sarmat12 - 05-Jun-2007 at 23:11 |
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TranHungDao ![]() Shogun ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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Java did a lot of trade with China. Javanese merchant ships
frequented Hong Kong. Heck, why trade with the Javanese when you
can just take it from them!
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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I doubt if Hong Kong was so important at that time. Perhaps, it just was a small fisherman village before British took it in XIX century.
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TranHungDao ![]() Shogun ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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*tsk, tsk* ![]() Keith Taylor claims in the Birth of Vietnam that because Hong Kong was such a bustling place of commerce in the 10th century, or 300 years before the Mongols' worldwide rampage, that China no longer wanted to keep a constantly and fiercely rebellious Vietnam as a province. When Vietnam was first conquered by the Chinese over 1000 years earlier, Canton though much bigger geographically was far less populated than Vietnam, or rather the Red River Delta of northern Vietnam, and hence the tax base their was much less valuable than that coming from the Vietnamese. Not so, by the 10th century CE! I can't recall when exactly, but Hong Kong was sacked by Arab traders, perhaps around the 1200's or 1300's. They did so because they were pissed at the Chinese merchants for being greedy and conniving. The Javanese invaded Champa around this time period too because the Chams kept plundering their trade vessels. The Javanese were not the Cham's only victims. The point, I'm trying to make is there was vigorous trade in SE Asia well before the Mongols arrival into the area. "small fishingman village"? HA! ![]() Edited by TranHungDao - 07-Jun-2007 at 11:28 |
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Intranetusa ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 08-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Wow, the typhoons must be out to get the Mongols
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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You are absolutely right. But Hong Kong didn't have that importance. Some parts of the modern Hong Kong served as trading posts for some time, but Hong Kong like it extists now evolved only after the British had conquered the region.
The most important Chinese ancient trading haven was Guangzhou (Canton). The trade with the Middle East and India and Indonesia was also done via Guangzhou.
Check this out:
The History of Hong Kong in Imperial China began in 214 BC under the Qin Dynasty. The territory remain largely unoccupied until the end of the Qing Dynasty when Imperial China lost the region to the British Colony in the 1800s. Edited by Sarmat12 - 07-Jun-2007 at 17:09 |
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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TO TranHungDao
I think you indeed confused Hong-Kong with Guangzhou:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou#History
Arab and Persian pirates sacked Guangzhou (known to them as Sin-Kalan) in AD 758, according to a local Guangzhou government report on October 30, 758, which corresponded to the day of Guisi (癸巳) of the ninth lunar month in the first year of the Qianyuan era of Emperor Suzong of the Tang Dynasty.[1][2][3] Edited by Sarmat12 - 07-Jun-2007 at 13:34 |
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TranHungDao ![]() Shogun ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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I think you're right! ![]() However, everything else still holds if you replace "Hong Kong" with "Canton". ![]() Edited by TranHungDao - 07-Jun-2007 at 17:33 |
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Sarmat ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3115 |
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Absolutely !
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