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Forum LockedMinoan civilization originated in Anatolia!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pablito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Minoan civilization originated in Anatolia!
    Posted: 26-May-2009 at 11:44
Flipper, I do not blame you (also Chibuldios).
About Aegean-Anatolian civilization and possible link with Cauc. Languages, it particularly attracted me a PNCauc verbal root *=irx:wVn [read : *=irkhwVn]'to knit, to weave, to spin' and that it remind me the competition between (Madame or Lady) Athena and αραχνη, for full story cf. Wikipedia, Encyclopedia Mythica or any other source.
Phonologically, the reconstructed Cauc. root is partly metathized and it has *=i-, it shall be explained by grammar (toooooo looooooong for posting in this Forum); so, a common root in * rVkhn ~ * rkhVn is possible. Semantically it is very reliable.
When I shown to George B, Hewitt (Caucasologist at S.O.A.S University of London), his comment was : Nice story and nice equations!
You might be interested to know that 'spider' in Abkhaz is: a.byz.k'ata.ha = 'the.tongue.net.weave'.
Another hint is Linear A symbol for 'KU', as Beekes mentioned a Pre-Greek word in κυμινδις 'a type of bird'; so KU drawn as a bird it might be correspond to.
I now stopped to write in this Forum, otherwise Chibuldios write again " that will bring a bias".
P.S: V stands for Vowel(s)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 12:02
Pablito, there's no suspicion of blaming or so. Don't worry at all about that. Personally i'm not offended about anything here. It's just a discussion. Smile

Moreover, i don't think Chibuldios want to make you stop writing or so. His criticism is for a good cause not just to argue about anything or try to win a retoric battle.

Now, can you explain to me what is so obvious about arachne and and abyzkataha?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 16:33
Pablito, I have nothing against theories well-argued. Though I disagree in some small details, I largely accepted Beekes' paper as a starting point. Many of your hyptheses may be nice or attractive, my objection, however, is that they are not really proving the case.
 
And if you can make good points about pre-Greek language(s), Linear A language, etc. I certainly wouldn't want you to stop writing, on the contrary Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pablito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 16:53
Flipper, it is my (bad sense of ) humor, I just kidding.
Anyway, about your requested explanation, it is simple and easy. I connected αραχνη 'spider' with PNC (actually ProtoEasternCaucasian) verbal root *=irkhwVn]'to knit, to weave, to spin'; phonologically close each other, historic-semantically supported by  αραχνη tale.
The same semantic feature (but different root) is seen in Abkhazian denomination for 'spider', called 'the.tongue.net.weave'. In conclusion, the word 'spider' simply means 'the weaver (or similar than)'. It is also interesting that in Lat. araneo (*< aracneo) and Romance lang. , It. ragno, Esp. arana, Fr. araignee.
In synthesis:
1) Aeg-An & PNC(PEC) common root
Aegean-Anatolian                          PNCauc (PECauc)
'spider'                                         'to weave, knit, spin'


2) Abkhazian root (for Abkhazian only)
Abkhazian
the.tongue.net.weave = spider

That's why G.B. Hewitt e-mailing me with : nice story & nice equations !
Is it clear to you ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2009 at 14:34
Originally posted by Pablito

Flipper, it is my (bad sense of ) humor, I just kidding.
Anyway, about your requested explanation, it is simple and easy. I connected αραχνη 'spider' with PNC (actually ProtoEasternCaucasian) verbal root *=irkhwVn]'to knit, to weave, to spin'; phonologically close each other, historic-semantically supported by  αραχνη tale.
The same semantic feature (but different root) is seen in Abkhazian denomination for 'spider', called 'the.tongue.net.weave'. In conclusion, the word 'spider' simply means 'the weaver (or similar than)'. It is also interesting that in Lat. araneo (*< aracneo) and Romance lang. , It. ragno, Esp. arana, Fr. araignee.
In synthesis:
1) Aeg-An & PNC(PEC) common root
Aegean-Anatolian                          PNCauc (PECauc)
'spider'                                         'to weave, knit, spin'


2) Abkhazian root (for Abkhazian only)
Abkhazian
the.tongue.net.weave = spider

That's why G.B. Hewitt e-mailing me with : nice story & nice equations !
Is it clear to you ?


What is clear is that the word spider in many languages is connected to "knit, spin" etc. Fine! However, there's no similarity to arachne and the PNCauc word. I mean i don't find it phonologically close, unless we go back 40000 years or something. In IE languages the "phonological closeness" is such an easy task, so i don't understand why it should be so difficult to give similar examples in PNCauc.

Why believe in the case of arachne that it is PNCauc while the PIE root is araKsn.

Edited by Flipper - 17-Jun-2009 at 14:38


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pablito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2009 at 00:08
Well Flipper, as I red in DELG (dictionnaire Etymologique de la langue Grecque), also Beekes; there is not satisfactory etymologization for Greek arachne and Latin araneo [=spider].About "In IE languages the "phonological closeness" is such an easy task, so i don't understand why it should be so difficult to give similar examples in PNCauc." , I just cited Beekes:
"The word, limited to these two languages, is hardly IE (evt. *h2rh2-ek-). Connection with arkos is impossible if the word is IE, and for a substr. element also difficult. ".
In the way round, I agree with you about patima and more..... Mind ! IE (and Semitic) linguists sat on golden throne of 200 years of  internal and external reconstruction (mostly are IE themselves); meanwhile other languages and related families are in the dawn, with just half century or even less (of reconstruction), with  little or no documents. PNCaucasian is one of them. IF everything is all right, I would see a common root from Aegaean to Caspian sea through Anatolia plateau; at least, geographically,  it make sense. Do you ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2009 at 07:23
Yes, ofcourse.
I'm not against your theory or something. I'm rather excited that someone spends a lot of time for such an issue. Geographically as you said, i don't find it impossible at all. I mean IE speaking people and Caucasians are very close. Theoretically, once upon a time they lived side by side.

However, how does you look upon the fact that the research shows origins from Anatolia? I mean, Etruscans came from Anatolia as well but did not speak an anatolian language. How would you put this up? That they were Caucasian speakers that settled first in Anatolia (before the Hittites) and then moved to the Aegean?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pablito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2009 at 20:27
Originally posted by Flipper

Yes, ofcourse.
I'm not against your theory or something. I'm rather excited that someone spends a lot of time for such an issue. Geographically as you said, i don't find it impossible at all. I mean IE speaking people and Caucasians are very close. Theoretically, once upon a time they lived side by side.

However, how does you look upon the fact that the research shows origins from Anatolia? I mean, Etruscans came from Anatolia as well but did not speak an anatolian language. How would you put this up? That they were Caucasian speakers that settled first in Anatolia (before the Hittites) and then moved to the Aegean?

I am sorry mate, but I am not involved in Etruscan (language study); also for good reason. As far I know, R. A. Brown wrote some 'crumbs' on Aegaean and Etruscan, like "abc [any word or aspect] found also in Etruscan"; without pretending a  links or  to formulate a theory.
I am  busy to find out a possible links between Hurro-Urartean, Pre-Greek and PNCauc.; I already set up some  regular rules among these languages, I think (if I am all right) is a good deal of.

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