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Forum LockedMEANING OF THE WORD TURK

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Justurk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Justurk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: MEANING OF THE WORD TURK
    Posted: 01-Jun-2009 at 23:44
While browsing the site, I realized that many threads about the origin of the word Turk and/or the meaning of it were opened several times. After being discussed for a while they were mostly closed due to deviation from the original aim of them and to loss of seriosity expected to be seen in them. Unfortunately, they were closed or forgotten before a logical argument appeared.
 
However, the origin and the real meaning of the word Turk are really important, in my opinion, for that it will help us improve our general understanding of Turks. It will be good if you ( I am included) Turkish or Turkic participants  could achieve to keep their nationalistic sentiments away from the issue. Doing such will enable us to reach a good explanation of the origin and to come close to real meaning of the word.
 
As far as I know, the first recorded Turkic form of the word is Törük/Türük. Törük/Türük should be the word in which we must look for an etymologic explanation.
 
I know there are some people who assume a relation between Törük/Türük and old Turkic word Törü, law or order (other variants include Türü, Töre, Türe and Tüze, all of them means law, order. Each word here listed as variants are akin to each other, they bear possibly slight differences in meaning though.). Those people who assume such a relation try to explain the word Türük as having the meaning of the one who has a system of order, the one who has a system of laws.
 
A recent but more logical sounding theory proposes that the word Törük/Türük derives from the verb törü- ( to spring up, to sprout up, to appear, to derive). According to this theory, Türük means the ones created, the ones  appeared, the ones derived, the ones descended) In this view Türük basically means human.
 
 
Other theories assume that Turk means robust, strong, beautiful etc... , however, no longer these theories are thought to be serious.   
 
Please write your opinion, share your knowledge and information, tell us what theory you like best and why. 
 
I lack sources, Please try to do your best to base your argument upon sources as much as you can. I will be looking forward to replies, especially sense making ones.
 
Regards, 


Edited by Justurk - 01-Jun-2009 at 23:49
Whether you call Turkish or Turkic, We are all Turks.
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GökTürk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GökTürk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2009 at 16:02
I have read meaning of Turk is strong.Also,I have heart something from my teacher.He said "Turk word is a Chinese word".
TENGRÄ° TEG TENGRÄ°DE BOLMIÅž TÃœRK BÄ°LGE KAÄžAN-
TURK WISE KHAN WHO BECAME IN SKY LIKE SKY-GOD
---
tengir ordo(people of Tengri-God-)                 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2009 at 23:09
I am almost sure there are other versions of this topic in the Central Asia or Ethnicit subforums.  Did anyone bother to search for them?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 17:28
yeah but they are all closed, this is also what he said in his initial post.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 06:39
Originally posted by Temujin

yeah but they are all closed, this is also what he said in his initial post.
 
Yes, but due to the sheer number of them, I doubt they are ALL closed.  Although others of them might be forgotten, they can always be dredged up again.  This has happened to topics in this subforum several times this week already.  I might be cynical, but I don't see any new information or any kind of consensus being reached in response to this question.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hypocrisy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 13:16
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

Originally posted by Temujin

yeah but they are all closed, this is also what he said in his initial post.
 
Yes, but due to the sheer number of them, I doubt they are ALL closed.  Although others of them might be forgotten, they can always be dredged up again.  This has happened to topics in this subforum several times this week already.  I might be cynical, but I don't see any new information or any kind of consensus being reached in response to this question.


This thread was opened in order to reach a reasonable consensus that clarifies the point as detailed as possible. No matter how many of the likes of this thread were closed. This discussion will last as long as it takes to ferret out the origin of the word "Turk".

I figured that the verb "türemek" looks somehow related to the word "Turk". As you mentioned above, it seems like the most rational explanation.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Justurk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 19:58
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

Originally posted by Temujin

yeah but they are all closed, this is also what he said in his initial post.
 
Yes, but due to the sheer number of them, I doubt they are ALL closed.  Although others of them might be forgotten, they can always be dredged up again.  This has happened to topics in this subforum several times this week already.  I might be cynical, but I don't see any new information or any kind of consensus being reached in response to this question.
 
Firstly, We are all aware of the existence of many open or closed threads about the issue. Secondly, you should also recognize our need to discuss this matter in an appropriate fashion, if you consider the fact that all of the previously opened and still open threads are lost in irrelevant arguments.
That is why this thread should stay open until a logical and acceptable idea, a consensus would be reached by the majority of whom joins the discussion.
 
Appreciating your reminding and paying attention to your critics we will do our best, on the other hand, I assume that with your continuing objection to the openness and the existence of the thread, you are most probable one who prevents us from discussing the matter in a proper way and reaching a consensus. You are the very one whose contribution to the thread is irrelevant.
 
I think, we all know this thread should be open as long as oldfangled ideas and irrelevant arguments do not reappear. However, In any cases you are still entitled to close the thread  and your right to do this is preseved when necessary.   
Originally posted by Hypocrisy


I figured that the verb "türemek" looks somehow related to the word "Turk". As you mentioned above, it seems like the most rational explanation.
Yes this is very striking and it is really weird that linguists and historians could not realize the logic behind it. Modern Anatolian Turkish verb Türemek and its old Turkic equivalent Törü- seem to be what lies beneath the very word Törük/Türük ( ModT : Türk). Explaining this so makes a real sense in my opinion.
 
However, we must always keep in mind that the school of those who claim Törük/Türük and Törü are related and the other recent school of those who claim Törük and the verb Törü are related have not compromised yet.  Personally I really look forward to see such a compromise, but I am still not sure about which hypothesis is correct although I prone to consider the latter is correct.
 
There is no similar or close Turkic word having any meaning close to Strong. Robust and Beautiful. Strong Robust and Beautiful meanings attributed to the word Turk are now out of question. Only two hypotheses I explained are questioned, correct answers have not been found for both yet though.    


Edited by Justurk - 04-Jun-2009 at 20:08
Whether you call Turkish or Turkic, We are all Turks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 16:18
So, what are the most recent versions of the etymology of "Turk" ?
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