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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2007 at 03:31
Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:


What next?  Vietnam invaded China about 10 times during the last 1000 years?  Vietnam divided America and caused the North vs South Civil War?


O, and I forgot to add:  What next?  Vietnam didn't stop the genocide in Cambodia in 1978, but instead started it?!?  Those satanicly racist Vietnamese! Kill'em all!!! Angry

This Cambodian self-genocide was backed by the US, China and Thailand.  Vietnam did stop it.  There's no debating the issue. Disapprove
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2007 at 04:49
Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:

I saw  lot of wrong info here. I only correct 2 of those that are really related to Chams . 
 
Every normal academic study tells that Chams were primary coastal people with maritime culture ,combined with agriculture. Taylors book will probably tell the same.
 
Anyhow, this thread is meant for ancient Champa , not  Vieto- centric  propaganda. Wink


The following is by some guy named Charles Kimball.  Note:  He's not Vietnamese.

Quote
Early Vietnam

   by Charles Kimball

The mountainous coast of central Vietnam could not provide enough farmland to keep the Chams fed, so from the earliest years their society was ship-oriented, depending on both trade and piracy (with no particular preference) to make a living. Most of the raids were directed north towards the Chinese-occupied part of Vietnam, until the Chinese retaliated by destroying Vijaya, the Cham capital, in 446. Champa fell under Chinese rule until it regained its independence in 510. Thirty years later, the decline of Funan gave the Chams an opportunity to expand south, and they advanced all the way to the edge of the Mekong delta.

In the following centuries Champa exchanged raids with the Chinese, Khmers, and Javanese. The skill of the Cham soldiers, their strong sea power and their virtually unassailable land position all contributed to Champa's success. But their piracy made all of Champa's neighbors enemies, and the Chams got more than they bargained for when the Vietnamese turned out to be as aggressive as they were.

Source:  http://www.guidetothailand.com/thailand-history/vietnam.htm


So, little Champa was indeed picking fights with the giant Chinese empire.


Here's a Vietnamese summary of mainstream scholarship on early Champa history.  More of it was actually posted by the thread starter.
 
Quote
Overview of History of Kingdom of Champa

The history of the kingdom of Champa was marked with constant engagement in war and hostility with its neighbors, especially those from the North. Champa was first noted in Chinese historical writings in 192 AD. At the time, the Chams were concentrated in the area of the present Binh Thuan province. During the 3rd century, they expanded northward, seizing territory from the Han dynasty who ruled Viet Nam. They rapidly pushed northward and for a brief time occupied the the Red River Delta and several provinces in southern China. During the 4th and 5th centuries, the Chinese recaptured southern China and Viet Nam and expelled the Chams. The kingdom of Champa slowly contracted until by the 8th century, it corresponded approximately to the present Central and South Viet Nam. In the 10th century, only fifty years after gaining independence from China, Viet Nam invaded Champa. The Cham successfully repelled the Vietnamese and concentrated their effort in controlling their southern territory and the adjacent high land. During the 12th century, the Khmers to the west invaded the southern portion of Champa and occupied the Mekong delta. But in 1217, the Khmers and Chams allied against and defeated the Vietnamese, and the Khmers withdrew from the Mekong delta. Late in the 13th century, the Mongol army of Kublai Khan occupied Champa for five years, until it was defeated by the Vietnamese in 1287.

Minh Bui

References:

The Indianized States of Southeast Asia, G. Coedes, 1968 Status of the Latest Research on the Absorption Of Champa by Viet Nam, Po Darma, Proceedings of the Seminar on Champa, 1988

Link:  http://www.viettouch.com/champa/


Again, little Champa was indeed picking fights with the giant Chinese empire.

When a small guy (offensively) takes on a big bully, that small guy is obviously violent by nature.  Self-defense against a big bully is one thing--in fact, is downright admirable, but picking on a big bully clearly shows a crazy-ass "wild" mentality.

---------------------
I can't locate my copy of Taylor for now.  When I do, I'll post relevant excerpts.


Edited by TranHungDao - 02-Jun-2007 at 04:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2007 at 08:10
Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


Quote Vietnamese probably learned writing from our hated Chinese conquerers prior to the founding of the Chams
.
 
Without ancient Vietnamese writing such claims make little sense. For Champa there is solid proof that they could write since at least the 300's in their own language,  as their inscriptions show . Thats why its regarded as first literate state in SEA.

I wasn't contradicting you.  Just pointing out that the Vietnamese, or rather the Lac Viet, who were conquered & annexed by the Chinese for nearly 400 years prior to the founding of Champa, already knew how to read & write Chinese, or rather the nobility anyway.  Vietnam continued to use Chinese pictograms until the 20th century.

Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


For the rest, there is only Dai Viet/Vietnamese centred propaganda in this Champa topic and derogatory talk about Chams. This  nationalism might be more appropiate in other threads or when Vietnamese are attacked, but in this topic it makes little sense.


But Vietnamese are being attacked under the guise of "defending" the helpless Chams, who were alledgedly victimized by a "wild" Vietnamese:

Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:

There were often pirates and slavetraders  but they were much more than that. And slavetrade and piracy were practiced by Vietnamese ( and the others mentioned) as well,  but if that is the only thing that is mentioned , it can suggest that the Vietnamese were a bunch of wilds.

If slavery and piracy, brutality and whatnot is the measure on one's "wildness", then practically all people are wild.  Why then just pick on the Vietnamese, when the Dutch colonialists are far more guilty of such things?!?


I repeat:  The (ancient) Chams, the Mongols, the Vikings, the Commanches (a tribe of Native Americans), etc., were all significantly wilder than most of their neighbors, peers, contemporaries, etc. 

---------------------------
Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


I saw  lot of wrong info here.  I only correct 2 of those that are really related to Chams .

O, do pray tell, correct the others too.  I seriously doubt that you even know what you are talking about--on any point of contention.





Edited by TranHungDao - 02-Jun-2007 at 08:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2007 at 19:24
 
Twisting words and paying the game of accusing me to attacck Vietnamese does not work. Wink
You think that moderators (and others) cannot understand the context in wich 'wilds'was used ? It s very clear that 'wilds' was used by me in a preventive context. Maybe a moderator can read my passage below and see how he interpretates it .
 
Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:

They were often pirates and slavetraders but they were much more than that. And slavetrade and piracy were practiced by Vietnamese ( and the others mentioned) as well, but if that is the only thing that is mentioned , it can suggest that the Vietnamese were a bunch of wilds.
 
Nothing wrong in the above passage. You on the other hand don't use it a  in preventive way but in a confimative way. I try to prevent that people get the impression they were wilds , while you use that as excuse give Chams the stamp of  wilds,  as we see below. Yep. It hard to miss you re doing a lot of effort to turn them  into wilds:
 
Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:

 
 
Also, the Chams had been preying upon Vietnamese during the Chinese occupation, practically from the time they were began as an organized state. Now this should inform you that if such tiny, tiny state is willing to prey upon the massive Chinese empire, then they are very much a bunch of "wilds".
 
 
If "geography is destiny", then the Chams were forced to be wilds by the very land they occupied: The Chams had to make a living slave trading and piracy. If you go back to Dongsonian times, or the first millenium BCE, and look at Vietnamese art, then you'll see nothing that pertains to war, despite the Red River Delta's spectacular population density. Vietnamese, prior, to being sandwich between two predators, namely the Chinese and the Chams, were basically peaceful, relatively speaking, and later learned to be violent out of necessity.
 
 
I dont see much reason to discuss or correct your info on Champa. There is only see vieto- centric nationalistic talk and expressed contempt for Chams and others. Actually , seems the political propaganda is now intensified .LOL What is all this out of the blue stuff below?
 
 
Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:

 
What next?  Vietnam invaded China about 10 times during the last 1000 years?  Vietnam divided America and caused the North vs South Civil War?

Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:

 

O, and I forgot to add:  What next?  Vietnam didn't stop the genocide in Cambodia in 1978, but instead started it?!?  Those satanicly racist Vietnamese! Kill'em all!!! Angry

This Cambodian self-genocide was backed by the US, China and Thailand.  Vietnam did stop it.  There's no debating the issue. Disapprove


Edited by Sander - 02-Jun-2007 at 19:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2007 at 20:32
Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:

Twisting words and paying the game of accusing me to attacck Vietnamese does not work. Wink
You think that moderators (and others) cannot understand the context in wich 'wilds'was used ? It s very clear that 'wilds' was used by me in a preventive context. Maybe a moderator can read my passage below and see how he interpretates it .

It doesn't need to work, because it's true. 

Give it a rest.  "Preventative"?, "confirmative"?  Please.  Confused

Try "inconsistent":  Dutch are more "wild" then Vietnamese if you look at their Viking past and not so distant colonial practices.  Why then didn't you mention the Dutch and all Europeans, or what ever race/ethinicity you belong to, were/are also "wilds"?

Your inconsistency betrays an attack.  Not to mention your bogus hero /savior complex, and your political correctness front.

Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:

There were often pirates and slavetraders but they were much more than that. And slavetrade and piracy were practiced by Vietnamese ( and the others mentioned) as well, but if that is the only thing that is mentioned , it can suggest that the Vietnamese were a bunch of wilds.
 
Nothing wrong in the above passage. You on the other hand don't use it a  in preventive way but in a confimative way. I try to prevent that people get the impression they were wilds , while you use that as excuse to give Chams the stamp of  wilds,  as we see below. Yep. It hard to miss you doing a lot of effort to turn them  and others into wilds:


Of course there's something wrong with it:  You're attacking Vietnamese, merely by not saying that all people are "wilds" if slave trading and piracy is to be the measure of being "wild".

And let me repeat for the umpteenth time:  Those that prey on others to the extent of the the Vikings, Mongols, Chams, Commanches, etc., are indeed "wild".
  Morever, so were the Nazis, the WWII Japanese, the European colonialist, the Romans, the Han empire, the Khmer Rouge, GW Bush & the Texas Taliban, ...   The list goes on and on...

Vietnamese did not practice slave trading and piracy to the extent of the Chams.  Even nowadays, Thai pirates roam the seas of SE Asia.  Vietnamese and Chinese Vietnamese "boat people" were raped and robbed by them like crazy.  Do some research, for once.  It definitely would help.

The only difference between the wild Chams and the wild Mongols is that the Chams didn't conquer anywhere near as much realestate, in large part to the Vietnamese who conquered both.

Apparently, you refuse to acknowlege that Charles Kimball, who I quoted is not Vietnamese.  It was his article I had in mind when I made this assertion to begin with.  Again, he's not Vietnamese.  Ergo, there's nothing Vieto-centric about his assertion.  He himself is obviously reading from mainstream scholars.  The other quote/link was also based on 3rd party scholarship, albeit that it was summarized by a Vietnamese, i.e. the viettouch.com link.

Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


I dont see much reason to discuss or correct your info on Champa. There is only see vieto- centric nationalistic talk and expressed contempt for Chams and others.

Sounds like someone is ducking the debate.  Who are we trying to kid?  You can't.

Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


Actually , seems the political propaganda is now intensified .LOL

The only thing intensifying is a certain someone's penchant for denial. Wink

Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


What is all this out of the blue stuff below?

Blue is my favourite colour.  Tongue
 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:

 
What next?  Vietnam invaded China about 10 times during the last 1000 years?  Vietnam divided America and caused the North vs South Civil War?

Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:

 

O, and I forgot to add:  What next?  Vietnam didn't stop the genocide in Cambodia in 1978, but instead started it?!?  Those satanicly racist Vietnamese! Kill'em all!!! Angry

This Cambodian self-genocide was backed by the US, China and Thailand.  Vietnam did stop it.  There's no debating the issue. Disapprove

Ever heard of sarcasm? 

If your gonna twist and contort the history of the Chams to win an argument, then why not just deny history and assert all the above too?

Learn to read between the lines.  It would definitely help.

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Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:

Anyhow, this thread is meant for ancient Champa , not  Vieto- centric  propaganda. Wink


Here's some more Vieto-centric propaganda:

Quote
Raiding, Trading, and Feasting: The Political Economy
By Laura Lee Junker

Raiding And Militarism, page. 343

Maritime Piracy, Warfare, and Disrupting the Trade Networks of Rivals

There is a long-term link between the development of long-distance maritime trading systems in Southeast Asia and the rise of maritime raiding and militarism.  For example, the mid-first millenium and early second millenium A.D. Cham polities of southern Vietnam aggressively sought to maintain a monopoly on maritime trade through almost continual raiding of coastal ports of rival trade polities as well as seaborne piracy against trading vessels headed for these foreign ports (K. Hall 1985:178-181; 1992:252-260; K. Taylor 1992:153-157)  Hall notes that maritime raiding against coastal trading ports increased during times of greater political fragmentation, when individual polities may have suffered a loss in direct trade revenues (1992:259).  Ironically, the great intensity and frequency of Cham raiding weakened the attraction of Cham ports for international traders, who were wary of traveling too near the Chams coast when making voyage from the Malacca Straits to ports in China (p. 259).  Thus, the Champa rulers were pushed further and further towards plunder-based political economy (p. 252), rather than one focused more strongly on peaceful foreign trade.

Source:  http://books.google.com/books?id=yO2yG0nxTtsC&pg=PA343&lpg=PA343&dq=champa+slave+piracy&source=web&ots=13IZYh6f4S&sig=8CBneGvTr9t8Z3yubsl-ikfYjS8


Question:  Is Laura Lee Junker a Vietnamese name?!?

Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:


Every normal academic study tells that Chams were primary coastal people with maritime culture ,combined with agriculture. Taylors book will probably tell the same.

Note that Laura Lee Junker actually cites Taylor.

Want some unsolicited advice?  Read Taylor before you cite him.

---------------------------------------------------------
Even more Vieto-centric propaganda:

Quote
China's Intervention in Vietnam and its Aftermath (1786-1802):
A Re-examination of the Historical East Asian World Order


Takashi Inoguchi


The politics of the Nguyen ruler, which depended heavily on the support of his family and other military families from Thanh-Hoa tended to degenerate as peace prevailed after the truce of arbitrary and despotic rule by Truong Phuc Loan, who controlled a boy ruler, Nguyen Phuc Thuan (r. 1765-1778), stirred continuous opposition from inside as well as from outside of the court.

The communal land, which used to be the central element of Vietnamese society, lost its central meaning gradually after the kingdom of Champa was conquered by the late 15th century.  Champa had been the major supplier of the slave labor on which the communal land system was highly dependent.


Source:  http://iir.nccu.edu.tw/chinapolitics/rethinking/12.doc


Question:  Is Takashi Inoguchi a Vietnamese name?

So there we have it:  The Chams were a race of pirates and slave traders. 

And yes, I did see that the Vietnamese among others depended on this slave trade, even though they were often the victims of it.  The Chams were not the only pirates and slave traders, but they certainly did more of it than anyone else.  In my book, they certainly could be labelled as "wilds".

And yes, I'm fully aware things such as Japanese pirates preying upon Chinese merchant ships throughout the ages.  But then again, it was not a primary way of life or a central mode of political economy for them, just as it was for everyone else in Asia, with the notable exception of the Mongols--and of course, the Chams.

BTW, note that I've always used the past tense, "was" or "were pirates" rather than "is" or "are pirates & slave traders".  See, Mongols are no longer called Mongolians, similiarly Vikings descendants are called by various northern European nationalities/ethnicities, but Chams are still called Chams because they don't have their own country.  Same goes for Commanches, etc.  Do you see my point?!?
 
------------------------------
Originally posted by Sander Sander wrote:

I saw  lot of wrong info here. I only correct 2 of those that are really related to Chams. 


Really?!?  Ermm


Edited by TranHungDao - 03-Jun-2007 at 01:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hulegu Han Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2007 at 15:45
Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:

The Chams were a race of pirates and slave traders.  They were a thorn in the side of the Vietnamese, Khmers and even the Thais.  Vietnam overran Champa in 1471, massacring 10's of thousands and taking as many as slaves.  Many others fled to Malaya, Cambodia and Hainan Island.  Needless to say, the relationship between the Vietnamese and the Chams was a 1000 year old blood feud.

They were tough adversaries.  Militarily, they did better against the Vietnamese than the Mongols ever did.



Military attempts againts Da Viet were made only in Khublai Khan's period as he was tempted to launch military conquest to abroad. However Vietnam have never been important for Mongols as was China during Yuan dynasty. Imagine whether they find enough treasure in Vietnam's jungle as in Persia and China?    
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 01:38
Interesting
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 04:31
Originally posted by Hulegu Han Hulegu Han wrote:

Military attempts againts Da Viet were made only in Khublai Khan's period as he was tempted to launch military conquest to abroad. However Vietnam have never been important for Mongols as was China during Yuan dynasty. Imagine whether they find enough treasure in Vietnam's jungle as in Persia and China?    


Well, most of the ambitious attempts at world conquest really only happened during the time of Ghenghis thru to Kublai.  Most parts of the world which were subjected to Mongol conquest never saw the Mongols outside of this era, particularly if you don't include those conquerors who claim direct Mongol ancestry such as the Mughals, Timorlane, and so on.

FYI #1:  China annexed Vietnam for more than a 1000 years during the 1st Millenium.  China invaded Vietnam about 10 times during the 2nd Millenium, pretty much with the aim of reannexing Vietnam in each and every time.  Apparently, the Chinese wanted Dai-Viet for something.

FYI #2:  Vietnam's population as of 2007 is about 84 million, whereas Mongolia's is still less than 3 million.  This population discrepancy pretty much says it all about  the respective richness of both lands.   Vietnam is blessed with abundance in natural resources, both from an ancient persepective (fertile land, fresh and saltwater fish, copper mines for bronze casting, etc.) and a modern one (trillions of dollars worth of coal, aluminum, etc.).  Of course China's richer than Vietnam, it's a heck of a lot bigger and more populous.  But so is Mongolia, landwise anyhow.

FYI #3:  The "jungles" of Vietnam?  LOL.  Northern Vietnam is no different in climate, terrain, flora & fauna to that of southeastern China.  You've been watching way too many Vietnam War movies.

Question #1:  Did or did not the Mongols defeat southern Sung Dynasty, i.e. southern China? Dead

Question #2:  Although during the 2nd Millenium, every Chinese invasion failed, the Chinese conquered and annexed Vietnam for 1000+ years during which they put down numerous rebellions. DeadDead  This begs the question:  If the Chinese had been able to so easily defeat the Vietnamese, then why didn't the Mongols?  Cool


Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Interesting

Oh, stop trolling!  Wink

LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 04:59
Hulegu Han,

Don't forget, the Chams also defeated the Mongols under Kublai.  This may have been slightly pre-Yuan dynasty.  That invasion was probably relatively small, like the first Mongol invasion of Vietnam, i.e. ~25,000 men only. 

The Chams twice managed to sack Hanoi.  They have the best military record against the Vietnamese, far better than the Chinese or the Mongols.  Clap

I think the Vietnamese just always underestimated them, unlike how they always regarded the overwhelmingly numerically superior invaders from China.  I think the Vietnamese fight hardest when China invades, Mongol/Yuan or otherwise.  Militarily, Dai-Viet was certainly stronger than Champa, for the southward expansion of both Dai-Viet (at the expense of Champa) and Champa (at the expense of the Khmer empire) attests to that.  However, it took Dai-Viet about 700 years to fully vanquish the Chams, or about 1500 years if included the wars that the Vietnamese fought against the Chams when Vietnam was still a part of China.

The Chams lived in mostly in central Vietnam and increasingly pushed southward into Khmer territory.  Central Vietnam is moutainous providing them with great terrain advantages when the Vietnamese attacked/counter-attacked them.  (Remember, the Chams relentlessly preyed upon so many people that they were constantly subjected to counter-attacks.  Even far away Java attacked them for they were constanly plundering Javanese merchant ships.)

By the way, many modern Vietnamese are no doubt descended from the Chams.  The northern Vietnamese look slightly different than the central and southern Vietnamese.  The Chams (central Vietnam) and the Khmers (southern Vietnam) are malays.  Champa soundly, or rather fatally, defeated in 1471 CE, but wasn't fully annexed until about 1697.  That is, the southern most remnant of the Cham kingdom lasted until 1697.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 18:58
Dear arafatc, we don't need ethnic hate wars here.
 
Please kindly review All Empirse Code of Conduct. This forum is the place for the objective discussion of history. Comments that can create hard feelings and useless ethnic strife are not welcomed here.
 
 


Edited by Sarmat - 26-Nov-2008 at 16:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arafatc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2009 at 07:06
You guys were deceived by the vietnamese history textbooks. The Vietnamese people took over Cham country through war. Many of them were killed by Minh Meng King (Vietnamese king) because want to erase the existence of Champa.

No hatred is mentioned. The history is history. You cannot deceived it.


Edited by arafatc - 22-Jan-2009 at 07:08
You can not deceive cham history. I am cham people where my homeland was located at SEA and the country was vanished from the world map by Vietnamese. Now we are cham are scattered all over the world.
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By Dr. H. K. Poklaung

Keeping their identity as a Champa people  is the main concern of the Champa immigrants in the United States. Here in America, they have to face the problems of adjustment to a new environment which is known as a melting pot where various cultures of different groups of people are blended together in their daily activities.

Before going through the fact of how  these Champa immigrants adjust themselves to a new society in the United States, I would like to go through their history of adjustment in the past.

We know that Champa Kingdom lost its land and control to vietnam fully 1835 not in 1471 date of which Manguin believes that the alleged "disappearance"of Champa after 1471 is nothing but a myth².

 In 1594 Champa was still strong enough to help the Malay state of Johor resist Portuguese attack and Champa merchants continued to frequent the ports of Southeast Asie throughout the seventeenth century. Champa's cultural life continued to the develop autonomously, and even a distinct Champa's territory was not directly absorbed until 1834-5¹, or by one account, as late as 1883 during the French conquest².

Then since 1832, when Panduranga, the last territory of Champa, was annexed by vietnam, the people of Champa have been encountering a new situation. Their victors would like to dismantle their culture and destroy their history. In fact, the social, cultural and economical structures of Champa people still persist and quite different from those of their victors. Despite all kind of pressure, Champa people continued to preserve their cultural identity by speaking their own language, observing their own customs , wearing their traditional dress, practicing their religions. They lived in villages and social groups separately from their victors. They autonomously took care of their  internal affairs. They were reluctant to the interference of strangers (vietnamese)who attemted to settle their litigical problems.

During French rule in Indochina, the identity of Champa people was recognized and restored but unfortunately they recieved separate names as "Cham" and "Montagnards" who both in reality belonged to one nation "Nagara Champa" and to one people "ura Champa" since they have inherited the same Hindoue civilization, spoken languages which belong to the Malayo-polynesian group of languages, have the same complexion and finally stood shoulder to shoulder in the defense of Champa's territory before the invasions ennemies³

After French withdrawal in 1954, the government of Baiguar (saigon) exeted its policy of assimilation toward all ethnic minorities in Champa (southvietnam), especially ethnic Cham who were considered as dangerous elements to the current regime. Champa people were forced to wear vietnamese sounded dress, change their family name to vietnamese sounded names, give up their traditional customs and practices, speak vietnamese. Vietnamese warlords confiscated at will Champa people's land in the highlands, regrouped and locked them in "strategic hamlets", deprived them of human rights such as rights to own property, rights to move freely from one place to another, rights to speak up their being treated unjustly. Baigaur (saigon) rejected their claims on their lands, stifled their protests, suppressed their demonstrations, put them in jail, deported their leaders to a remote island (con son) and inflicted on them atrocities of all kinds.

The politics of oppression of Baigaur (saigon) toward ethnic minorities in SVN(Champa) brought about a movement of resistance from ethnic minorities, the formation of a front named "Front Unifie de Lute des Races Opprimee" or F.U.L.R.O who called the ethnic groups in SVN(Champa) to stand up and take arms to fight the vietnamese oppresors. Joining the Front were the people of Champa originally from the Highlands and the coast as well as Champa people living in Cambodia. FULRO's aims are to claim back Champa people's land, emancipate their people and restore their traditions and practices. After several successful military operations in the highlands of Indrapura (quang duc) and Buan Mathuat(ban me thuot) in 1963-64, FULRO became very soon a target of attack from Baiguar(saigon) and Hanoi. Though not obtaining all claims it had expected, FULRO succeeded anyway in getting some concessions from Baigaur(saigon) in the implementtation of an official and parastatic organization called Toan An Phong Tuc Thuong (Judiciary Court of Traditions and Customs for the Montagnards) that overlapped and vetoed the Governor's decisions concerning the Montagnard's customs and traditions.

Besides, Baigaur(saigon) agreed to create a ministery for the development of the Ethnic minorities' affairs who took care of the ethnic groups' business in SVN(Champa). But this liberal policy of Baigaur(saigon) did not last long because in 1975 SVN fell under the control of the Communists. Today, under Socialist Democratic Republic of vietnam (ie vietnamese communists) nothing guarantees that Hanoi keeps applying its liberal policy toward ethnic minorities in SVN(Champa) as promised during vietnams war.

Champa people in Cambodia, especially ethnic Cham, can not be left out of consideration since they have inherited the same cultural legacy as did their Champa brothers in SVN(Champa).The Khmer Royal Chronicles mentions a large number of Champa people refugees in Khmer Kingdom after their military defeat in Vijaya(qui nhon) in 1471 AD to the vietnamese troops of Le Thanh Ton. Those who did not want to live under vietnamese rule fled up to Mountainous areas where they spent the rest of their lives with their comrads in arms: Sdiang, Rhade, Jarai, Bahnar, Sedang...(Note that Champa was a multi ethnic nation that included different ethnic  groups such as Cham, Rhade, Jarai, Chru, R'glai, K'ho, Sdiang, Hroy, Bahnar, Sedang...)

cham7.jpg (46346 Byte)A second wave of migration of about five thousand Champapeoples families led by Champa Royal dignitaries to Cambodia took place in 1692, date of which the vietnamese troup took over northern part of Panduranga(phanrang). King Jayajetha III (1677-1709) of Cambodia granted them the request for a refuge. They settled in the area of Oudong-form capital of Cambodia in the province of Thbaung Khmum and of Stung Trang, at the places of Chroy Changvar, Prek Pra etc..¹

A third wave of migration of Champa people refugees to Cambodia, and probably the largest one, happened in late 1790 when Tay Son troops waged war against Nguyen Anh's followers on Champa's land, causing death to thousand of innocent Champa people.

The last wave of migration of Champa people to Cambodia, as the Khmer Royal Chronicles noted it, occured in 1835 when king of vietnam, minh mang(1820-41) suppressed and massacred mercilessly Champa rebels against his regime.

Once arrived at Cambodia, Champa people refugees built up their villages, formed their own communities which, like their compatriots in Champa's land lived separately from the rest of the population in order to preserve their languages, their practices and their religion of Islam while Khmer people are Buddhists.Champa people descendants in O'Russey today still use Champa script and practiced a deviated  Islam called Bani (meaning children in arabic²)

It is common for a minority who lives in a dominant society to react against any force or pressure that attempts to destroy its cultural identity, particularly the religion of its people. And it is because of the strong determination of preserving their traditions and values, their customs and practices, and of protecting their autonomous lives that Champa people in Cambodia rebeled against Khmer authority at the end of the sixteenth century under the rule of King Paramarja V (Cau Bana Tan) 1597-99. In the seventeenth century, muslim Champa people in Cambodia fought successfully to bring King Ramadhapati I (1642-58) to the throne. He later embraced Islam under the name of Ibrahim and married a beautiful Muslim girl in Kleang Sbeck. In 1782, Champa community once again made its name echoe in the Khmer Royal Chronicle by their attack against the local authority in Oudong.

In 1858, Champa community revolted against Khmer authority in Thbaung Khmum. Champa force was repressed, one of their leaders killed, their remnants fled to Moat Chrouk (chau doc, southwesternvietnam) and settled there¹. Under the rule of Prince Shianouk, Champa people were given "Khmer Islam", a term that does not reflect the reality of their identity.

Under the rule of Khmer Rouges (1975-79), the plight of Champa people got worse than ever. Khmer Rouges massacred Champa people's villagers, dispersed the survivors, and banned the Champa language, customs, and religion. In short, Khmer Rouges' aims were to exterminate Champa's race, destroy their culture, to do away with their identity. The politics of discrimination and overall destruction toward the Champa people under Khmer Rouges' regime caused Champa people revolts in different places such as Koh Phol, Chumnik, etc. Whose consequences were the killings en mass of Champa's villagers, the plundering of their homes².

Actually unlike Pol Pot, Heng Samrin applies a more liberal policy toward minority Champa people in Cambodia: Their religion restored, their language respoken, their values respected, their rights restated. There were 22 Muslim Champa people from Cambodia went: to perform Pilgrimage (Haj) in Mekka in 1989, and 21 others in 1990¹.

The above summary about  the history of Champa people in their continous struggle for their cultural identity highlights their attitude toward change and adjustment to new environment. Champa people, under any circumstance, do not want to lose the traditional legacy handed down to them by their ancestors.

Let us examine how Champa people immigrants adjust themselves to American society in California based on their spirit and attitude just highlighted above.

 Cambodians. They do not want to be integrated to any other community except those who are married with non-Champa spouses.

Actually there are about 2,000 Champa refugees in California. They are distinctly grouping in 4 areas: more than 300 in Sata Ana city (on Grant and S. Milmie St.); more than 300 in Fullerton city (on West Ave.) more than 300 in San Francisco city, sparsely locating; and about 100 in San Jose city. Since their number is insignificant to the vietnamese and Cambodian refugges who are of hundred thousand in California, These Champa refugees are lost or hidden identifiably. In fact, their identity of Champa peolpe has been denied since they were in refugee camps in Thailand or Malaysia. They were either of vietnamese or Cambodian nationality on their tracing cards. However their conditions are unique and distinct.

As we have seen ealier, Champa people live separately from vietnamese and Cambodian communities in SVN(Champa) and in Cambodia. Here, in California they are doing the same. They form their own communities in order to preserve their religion and cultural identity.

Though being in a very small number, Champa refugees in California do not feel out of their cirle since in public relations they still have a way out by contacting the vietnamese or Cambodian refugees. Those speak vietnamese prefer to approach the vietnameses and those who lived in Cambodia before prefer to make friend with

Campa people's adjustment to American society is very complex. It depends on their level of education, their former activisties, their religion, their age and sex. A majority of Champa refugees in the United States in general, and in California in particular, are not intellectuals.

They have hard times adjusting themselves to highly technological society of America. In Champa (svn) and Cambodia, they got a slim religious education of Islam and did not have any worldly education. Those who got a vietnamese, Cambodian and French education are able to adjust to American society after a short period of schooling. Campa students will have more chance to improve their lot than the adult and old aged Campa refugees.

Another factor that contributes to the socialization or unsocialization of Campa refugees is religion. Exept Campa refugees who are brahmanists, Campa muslims are reluctant to socialize with a non Muslim. They do not acceptany unislamic precept since they are taught that Islam is not only a religion but also a perfect way of life. It is also the reason why Champa people lead an autonomous life which is almost in isolation from the rest of people around them.

After religion, kindship plays also a very important role in the socialization of Campa people. Matrilocal and matrilineal sytem of Campa social structure is still in effect in Campa Muslim society. Campa females used to stay home to raise their children. This prevent them from going out and socializing with others. In addition to it, islamic law seclude female muslim from males. Since a majority of Campa refugees in the United States are muslims, Campa females used to visit other Campa females who are usually their parents.

Age is another important factor that help or prevent Campa refugees in their adjustment. The adult and aged adujst with difficulty to the American society. They have the feelings that they arelocked in house since they are not able to drive or to move to wherever they like. In fact, America is so wide that they do not know where to go. They feel so lonely that they want to go back to their homeland where they can chat with their relatives. Meanwhile Campa children and youth adjust easily to a new society. In school, Campa children have  fun with their classmates and socialize without difficulty. But their acculturation is a danger to their parents who are faithful to their milenary culture. Cultural conflicts between old and young generation in Champa families create a disharmonious atmosphere of misunderstanding. Children used to reject their parents' ideas which they thought are outmoded and useless. Children's attitudes and behaviors in mimicking another culture disappoint Champa parents. This situation makes Campa refugees realize that they should move close to one another and live in an autonomous community in order to maintain their religious and cultural legacy.

Despite all difficulties and disadvantages in a new land like America Champa immigrants adjust well to a new society. A small number of them becomes owners of Donut shop, of auto repair shop, auto dealer, some becom assistant teachers; one works at a law office; one runs a pharmacy; two own grocery trucks; many work in manufactures and factories.

The loss of their homeland which they cannot claim back incites  them ot hang on their religious and cultural legacy deemed to be their only source of hope and expectations. And because of the difficulties they're facing in the adjustment to a new society that Campa people stick together to their own values and traditions which they use for intellectual and spiritual uplift needed for their struggle for survival. These explain why every association estabishes by them in a host country carries unanimously the cultural and social vocation.

You can not deceive cham history. I am cham people where my homeland was located at SEA and the country was vanished from the world map by Vietnamese. Now we are cham are scattered all over the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2009 at 14:47
Welcome arafatc, did you notice section VII B-11 of our CoC?

It warns against: 

11. Plagiarism, the posting of texts found elsewhere without naming either author or source. Posting your own personal commentary is encouraged when copy/pasting from another source. When pasting attempt to place the content in quotes, highlight or underline for presentation purposes. Provide a correct URL link. When referencing from books or periodicals provide the title of the reference, the author and publication date. Posts where the paste is the arguement itself, while not adhering to these requirements, will be deleted. 
Copyright 2004 Seko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2009 at 02:00
Originally posted by arafatc arafatc wrote:

 
The Vietnamese people took over Cham country through war.Many of them were killed by Minh Meng King (Vietnamese king )


 
 
Nope ... Tongue
 
Most Cham assimilated into modern day Vietnamese " Kinh " ethnicity.
 
Authors Peter and Sanda Simms who wrote, "Champa had been proved to be an extremely powerful and civilized nation."

There is a Vietnamese scholar named Dr. Thanh Liem Vo of Australia who wrote about the Cham people as follows:

"…the vast majority of the population in Central Vietnam are from Cham descendants but assimilated into Viet culture wholely." Listen to their accent!!

Mr Pham Van Dong ( a Cham descendant ) was Prime Minister of North Vietnam for 45 years.Former S Vietnam president Mr Nguyen Van Thieu ( also a Cham descendant).
 
They both did nothing for Chams...No one in South and Central Vietnam can say for sure they have no Cham or Cambodian blood.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arafatc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2009 at 06:37
Originally posted by Seko Seko wrote:

Welcome arafatc, did you notice section VII B-11 of our CoC?

It warns against: 

11. Plagiarism, the posting of texts found elsewhere without naming either author or source. Posting your own personal commentary is encouraged when copy/pasting from another source. When pasting attempt to place the content in quotes, highlight or underline for presentation purposes. Provide a correct URL link. When referencing from books or periodicals provide the title of the reference, the author and publication date. Posts where the paste is the arguement itself, while not adhering to these requirements, will be deleted. 


By Champa Human Rights,
http://www.champa.org/activities/problems_of_adjustment.htm
article by Dr. H.K. Pokplaung

Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

Originally posted by arafatc arafatc wrote:

 
The Vietnamese people took over Cham country through war.Many of them were killed by Minh Meng King (Vietnamese king )


 
 
Nope ... Tongue
 
Most Cham assimilated into modern day Vietnamese " Kinh " ethnicity.
 
Authors Peter and Sanda Simms who wrote, "Champa had been proved to be an extremely powerful and civilized nation."

There is a Vietnamese scholar named Dr. Thanh Liem Vo of Australia who wrote about the Cham people as follows:

"…the vast majority of the population in Central Vietnam are from Cham descendants but assimilated into Viet culture wholely." Listen to their accent!!




and the Dr. ask the Cham people to preserve their own culture because Viet people try to assimilated us to their culture. you didn't mention that. I already read all Dr. Thanh's book. I know him :).


You can not deceive cham history. I am cham people where my homeland was located at SEA and the country was vanished from the world map by Vietnamese. Now we are cham are scattered all over the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arafatc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2009 at 06:52
Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:

Originally posted by TranHungDao TranHungDao wrote:


What next?  Vietnam invaded China about 10 times during the last 1000 years?  Vietnam divided America and caused the North vs South Civil War?


O, and I forgot to add:  What next?  Vietnam didn't stop the genocide in Cambodia in 1978, but instead started it?!?  Those satanicly racist Vietnamese! Kill'em all!!! Angry

This Cambodian self-genocide was backed by the US, China and Thailand.  Vietnam did stop it.  There's no debating the issue. Disapprove


The issue was not debated because from our perspective view, the war became worst when the viet created a party named Khmer Rouge and used all them as to riot the Cambodian country. Look at Britannica.com who creates that party!. It is like a game, your people start the game and end it. Then you want a credit.? Shame on u. Forgot one thing.. I am Cham people from Cambodia.


Edited by arafatc - 25-Jan-2009 at 06:55
You can not deceive cham history. I am cham people where my homeland was located at SEA and the country was vanished from the world map by Vietnamese. Now we are cham are scattered all over the world.
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Vietnam-Champa Relations and the Malay-Islam Regional Network in the 17th–19th Centuries



Danny Wong Tze Ken


Historical relations between Vietnam and the kingdom of Champa was a very long- standing affair characterized by the gradual rise of the Vietnamese and the decline of the Chams. The relationship began as early as the second century CE, when the Chams started a kingdom called Lin-yi, covering the area between the land of the Viet people in the north and Nanchao in the south. The historical consciousness of both peoples includes wars and conflicts between the two over a period of fifteen centuries before the kingdom of Champa was incorporated under Vietnamese rule in 1693. Thereafter, the lands of the Chams were settled by Vietnamese through a series of land settlement programs introduced by the Vietnamese ruling houses.

Subjugation of the former land of Champa was incomplete, however, as Cham resistance – often armed – became the central theme of the relationship after 1693. Resistance was based on the desire to be free of Vietnamese rule and to reinstate the kingdom of Champa. Contributing to this desire was the friction that existed between Vietnamese and Chams, often at the expense of Cham rights and well being. It was not until 1835 that Cham resistance was finally broken.

This essay traces the history of Vietnam-Champa relations between 1693 and 1835, with emphasis on the Vietnamization process and the existence of a Malay-Islam regional network in Southeast Asia, based mainly in the Malay Peninsula, that contributed to Cham resistance. The last part of the essay discusses the correlation between historical and present-day Cham-Malay relations.



The Vietnamese Victory over Champa in 1693


Before 1692, Champa was trying to strengthen its position against the Vietnamese through dealings with other regional powers. The Vietnamese were represented by the Nguyen family, which had ruled southern Vietnam since 1558. Although Champa was then still an independent state, Nguyen sources such as the Tien Bien had used the term “rebellion” for all Champa military action against them since 1629 – revealing that the Nguyen perceived Champa as a tributary vassal.

In 1682, the French priest at the court of Ayudhya reported that the king of Champa had submitted voluntarily to the king of Siam. While no other information is available, the event suggests an attempt by the Chams to forge an alliance with Siam with the ultimate aim of resisting the Nguyen. During a stop at Pulo Ubi near the Gulf of Siam on 13 May 1687, William Dampier, the English traveller, met a vessel of Champa origin anchored on the eastern side of the island. The vessel carried rice and lacquer and was on its way to Malacca. All forty crew members were Chams. They carried broad swords, lances, and some guns. Dampier wrote that the Chams were actively involved in trade with the Dutch at Malacca.

 In 1692, the Chams were feeling confident enough to challenge the Vietnamese. In September, Po Saut, the king of Champa at Panduranga (Pho Hai-Phan Rang-Phan Ri region), began building fortifications and had his men attack the region of Dien Khanh (Dien Ninh prefecture and Binh Khang garrison). The campaign ended with the defeat of the Chams in the first month of 1693. Po Saut and his followers were captured seven months later; meanwhile, the Cham court was renamed Thuan Thanh Tran and occupied by Nguyen garrisons whose mission was to prevent attacks from the remnants of Cham forces.


The conquest of Champa should be understood in the context of Nam Tien (southward movement). Chinese scholar Yang Baoyun considers Champa a victim of the Nguyen’s deliberate policy of subjugation, which stemmed from the principle of “maintaining good relations with countries of distance, and attacking the neighboring countries.” Title-inscriptions found on a cannon cast in 1670 by Joao da Cruz (Jean de la Croix), the Portuguese gun founder in the service of the Nguyen, sheds light on the matter. The title-inscription on the cannon reads, “for the King and grand Lord of Cochinchina, Champa and of Cambodia.”

A series of battles between the Chams and the Vietnamese in 1693-94 left the area in severe famine and led to the outbreak of plague. Apart from the difficulties caused by military clashes, the new Vietnamese administration was ill-prepared to govern the Chams. The main problem was its inability to establish an effective military presence. This was partly resolved when the Nguyen ruler Nguyen Phuc Chu (r. 1691-1725) appointed Po Saut’s lieutenant, Po Saktiraydaputih (or Ke-ba-tu), as the ta do doc (governor) to administer the region on behalf of the Nguyen.

Po Saktiraydaputih was given the rank of a kham-ly (civil official) in the Nguyen bureaucracy. His three sons were given the military appointments of de-doc, de-lanh, and cai-phu. The Chams were also ordered to change their costumes to those of the Han tradition, which meant the costumes of the Vietnamese.Thus began a process of Vietnamization in the Cham territories that was to continue through the eighteenth century.



The Vietnamization Process


In 1694, Nguyen Phuc Chu made Po Saktiraydaputih the native king (phien vuong) of Thuan Thanh Tran, and the latter was obliged to pay tribute to the Nguyen. Thus the tributary relationship was resumed. Nguyen Phuc Chu also returned the royal seal of Champa together with captured weapons, horses, and population. Thirty Vietnamese soldiers or Kinh Binh (soldiers of the Imperial City) were sent to protect the new Cham ruler. At this point the kingdom of Champa no longer existed as an independent entity, but had been integrated into the Nguyen domains. The Cham people continued to live in small pockets from the region of Quang Nam down to the Pho Hai-Phan Rang-Phan Ri region, where the seat of the Cham court under Po Saktiraydaputih was situated. The ruler’s palace was situated at Bal Chanar, not far from Phan Ri.

Even though the Chams continued to refer to their kingdom in the Pho Hai-Phan Rang-Phan Ri region as Panduranga, it was actually occupied territory. Vietnamese-Cham relations after 1697 under Nguyen Phuc Chu were based on central-regional relations; the role of the Cham ruler was more of a cultural and economic leader than a political one. But it was probably due to such a relationship that the Cham people were able to co-exist with the Vietnamese during the southward expansion of the Nguyen up to the early nineteenth century.

The Nguyen-Champa tributary relationship provides an insight into the attitude of the Nguyen with regard to its new status as a suzerain. On the one hand, the tribute had great economic and practical value to the Nguyen. More significantly, this self-created tributary relationship was a manifestation of the Nguyen’s achievement of an independent state ruling over its newly acquired tributary state, Champa. The Nguyen court was now the center of a system of tributary states made up of weaker states and uplanders.

However, the relationship between Po Saktiraydaputih and Nguyen Phuc Chu did not prevent friction from taking place in day-to-day affairs between the Cham people and Vietnamese settlers. Chams were also dissatisfied with the Vietnamese administration of the newly created Binh Khanh prefecture, whose jurisdiction covered the Cham territories in the Pho Hai-Phan Rang-Phan Ri (Panduranga) region. Such friction involved the jurisdiction of law enforcement, trade, trade taxes, slaves and labor contracts, and administrative boundaries. The Chams were at a disadvantage when dealing with the Vietnamese in these matters.

An agreement made in 1712 between Nguyen Phuc Chu and Po Saktiraydaputih included five provisions to regulate or govern Vietnamese-Cham relations in Binh Khang. Nguyen records mentioned that the agreement was made at the request of Po Saktiraydaputih and that Nguyen Phuc Chu “granted” a list of rules (not an agreement). It is difficult to ascertain if Po Saktiraydaputih really requested such an agreement, but clearly it was important in safeguarding the interests of the Chams, even though some of the articles were biased against them:

1. Anyone who petitioned at the Royal palace (of Po Saktiraydaputih) has to pay 20 string of cash (quan) to each of the Left-Right Tra (court official), and 10 string of cash to each of the Left-Right Phan Dung; Whereas those who petitioned at Dinh Binh Khanh have to pay 10 string of cash to the Left-Right Tra, and 2 string of cash to each of the Left-Right Phan Dung.

2. All disputes among Han people (Vietnamese) or between Vietnamese and a resident of Thuan Thanh shall be judged by the Phien Vuong (Cham King) together with a Cai ba (treasurer) and a Ky Luc (judicial official) (both Vietnamese officials); Disputes among the people of Thuan Thanh shall be judged by the Cham King.

3. The two stations of Kien-kien and O-cam shall be defended more carefully against spies. The authorities shall have no power to arrest residents of the two stations.

4. All traders who wish to enter the land of the registered barbarians (Man de) must obtain a pass from the various relevant stations.

5. All Chams from Thuan Thanh who drifted to Phien Tran (borders with Cambodia) must be well treated.

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From the agreement it is apparent that the Cham territories were well penetrated by Vietnamese settlers and that there was no distinctive demarcation between a Cham and a Vietnamese area in the Binh Khang Garrison (Thuan Thanh area). The terms of the agreement also suggest that the Nguyen had conceded a great deal of administrative authority to their sponsored Cham king. However, the great influx of foreign culture and people inevitably forced the Chams to accept the presence of the Viet people and adopt some of their ways, including wearing Vietnamese costumes and using the Vietnamese language.

Nguyen-Champa relations between 1697 and 1728 were described by Vietnamese sources as amicable. In the seventh month of 1714, for instance, after the completion of the renovation of the Thien Mu Temple in Phu Xuan, Po Saktiraydaputih brought his three sons to attend a religious celebration hosted by Nguyen Phuc Chu. Chu, a devout Buddhist, was “very pleased” with their presence. He appointed each of Po Saktiraydaputih’s sons as hau (noble in charge of a village).


Three months later, Po Saktiraydaputih requested assistance from the Nguyen for the establishment of an official court. The Tien Bien recorded how Nguyen Phuc Chu ordered a plan drawn up for the Cham ruler in which the respective positions of military and civil officials in the court were specified. Given the nature of the Nguyen chronicles, it is difficult to be sure if Po Saktiraydaputih had actually made such a request, or whether the whole system was imposed upon the Chams. Nevertheless, it represented another step towards the Vietnamization of the Chams.

Under Po Saktiraydaputih, the Cham people remained subordinate to Nguyen authority between 1700 and 1728, a period when the Nguyen were expanding into Cambodian territories. Even when the Nguyen were preoccupied with the situation in Cambodia, the Chams did not take the opportunity to free themselves. After the death of Po Saktiraydaputih in 1728, Nguyen-Champa relations underwent a shift. In that year, the Chams rose against the Vietnamese, but were swiftly defeated. This led to further Vietnamization as Vietnam-Champa relations were downgraded to those of a prefecture and subsequent Cham rulers adopted the Vietnamese family name of Nguyen.

No Cham ruler after Po Saktiraydaputih developed a close relationship with an individual Nguyen ruler such as that between Po Saktiraydaputih and Nguyen Phuc Chu. The Cham rulers continued to come from the line of Po Saktiraydaputih (of the Po Rome line), but they conducted their affairs with the prefects of Binh Khanh and Binh Thuan prefectures and rarely had direct contact with the Nguyen capital at Phu Xuan. A survey of the Cham Archives of Panduranga provides the information that post-1728 Nguyen-Champa relations were still governed by the regulations set by Nguyen Phuc Chu and Po Saktiraydaputih. This represented continuity with the pre-1728 period, but the process of Vietnamization also continued. The autonomous Champa ruler as envisaged by Nguyen Phuc Chu became little more than a local chieftain under the jurisdiction of prefecture administrators, and the position of the Chams became more and more vulnerable.


Beyond state-level relations, Champa’s own cultural identity was threatened by the large number of Vietnamese in its territories. Po Dharma describes the remnant areas of Champa as spots on a leopard skin. Not only did the Vietnamese swamp Champa, but they also began to break into the traditional economic positions of the Chams, taking over their role in the collection of jungle produce from the highlands. This included the diaarect collection of calambac (gaharu) and eaglewood and dealing directly with the uplanders for jungle produce.[20> According to Po Dharma, many Chams became indebted to the Vietnamese by borrowing money at the exorbitant interest rate of 150%. This resulted in Chams losing land, rice fields, slaves, even their children and parents.

In this state of losing their homeland and inevitable Vietnamization, the Chams began to turn towards the Malays of the peninsula for assistance.




The Chams and the Malays


Like the Malays, the Chams are categorized as Malayo-Polynesian (Austronesian). They came under Indian cultural and religious influence around the middle of the fourth century CE. The fusion between local dynamics and this foreign influence is evident even today in Cham architecture and relics found in the region between Hue and Quang Nam. The cities of Tra-kieu, Dong Duong, and My-son are fine examples.

Contrary to the findings of earlier scholars, the people of Champa were not ethnically homogenous. In fact, over the centuries, interaction took place between the Cham and uplanders from the Truong Son (Annamite mountain chain) range. Former Cham centers in the highlands such as My-son lend support to such an argument. There are new findings that suggest an incorporation of other Austronesian tribes such as the Jarai, the Chru, the Ronglais, and the Rhade into Champa. Po Rome (1627–1651), one of the most popular kings in the history of Champa, was actually of Chru descent. Po Rome’s son, Po Saut, was of Chru and Rhade parentage. There is also evidence suggesting the incorporation of non-Austronesian groups – the Stieng and the Hmong – into the Champa kingdom.
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The Sejarah Melayu (Malay Annals) mentions the presence of Chams in Malacca during the reigns of the Malay sultans. They were known to be political refugees who had arrived in Malacca after 1471. They were well received by the rulers of Malacca, who appointed some Cham noblemen to official positions in the court. In highlighting the Cham presence in Malacca, Marrison draws attention to the fact that the Chams probably contributed to the racial admixture of the Malays of the Peninsula and hence some Cham influences may have survived in Malay cultural tradition.


It is more important for our purposes to note that Malacca was a destination in the post-1471 Cham diaspora. The year 1471 marked the sack of Vijaya by the Vietnamese, the year Henri Maspero suggested as the end of Champa. Was the Cham decision to go to Malacca prompted by ethno-cultural considerations or by religion?


It was probably based more on ethno-cultural factors – as evidenced by the record of Champa-Malay relations – than on religion While the rulers of Malacca had converted to Islam in 1414, Islam had not yet made major inroads into Champa. Islam would later become important, however, in the strong connection between the Chams and the Malays. By the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, it would be the main factor in rallying Malay help for the Chams in resisting Vietnamese domination.

French scholar Pierre Yves Manguin suggests that the Chams only converted to Islam in the seventeenth century, almost three centuries after the Malays. But Islam was introduced into Champa at an earlier, undetermined date. Maspero stated that some Chams may have converted to Islam as early as the era of Sung dynasty China. Two Kufic inscriptions found in what was southern Champa are dated around 1030 CE and there is some indication of a Muslim community in Champa in the tenth century.

Existing literature and the present situation in Indochina have probably given rise to the impression that the Chams were Muslims during the life of Po Rome, who stayed in Kelantan for several years in the seventeenth century. And many Chams who had fled the Champa heartlands (central Vietnam) since 1471 and lived in Cambodia and on the Vietnam-Cambodian border had converted to Islam. The existence of this group, commonly known as Cham Baruw (New Cham), also reinforced the Islamic image of the Cham people.


Po Rome’s stay in Kelantan, however, should be seen from another angle. While Kelantan has been known as the serambi Mekah (gateway to Mecca) since the fall of Malacca in 1511, this title does not necessarily mean that religious practice was like that of the present day, when religion is paramount in the lives of the Kelantanese. Po Rome’s presence in Kelantan a few years prior to his ascension to the throne of Champa was likely an attempt to learn broadly about Malay culture, including the powerful Malay magic and the new Islamic religion. Instead of being the main concern of Po Rome, Islam was part of the wider Malay culture that he and other Chams were hoping to learn about in order to rekindle their ethnic and cultural links with the Malay world.

People-to-people relations between the Chams and the Malays were not confined to religious activities. It is likely that the Chams had been frequenting Kelantan for many centuries. Several place names there, such as Pengkalan Chepa (Cham Port) and Kampung Chepa (Cham Village), suggest close ties between the two peoples and wide acceptance on the part of the Malays. There were costume and textile names associated with Champa, for example, Tanjak Chepa (Cham Headdress), Sutra Chepa (Cham Silk), and Kain Chepa (Cham Cloth). Chepa is used to describe one type of keris (dagger). There was Padi Chepa (Cham Paddy) and Sanggul Chepa (Cham a hair Decoration). It is believed that a mosque in Kampung Laut was built by Cham sailors who frequented Kelantan. And according to the Hikayat Kelantan (Kelantan Annals), the ancestors of Long Yunus, the founder of the present-day Kelantan sultanate, originated in a state known as Kebayat Negara or Kembayat Negara, which is believed to be Champa.


Cham movement to the Malay Peninsula seemed to be frequent and even lasting. As early as the late fifteenth century, a Cham colony was established at Malacca. While most of the colony’s inhabitants were merchants, it began as a sanctuary for Cham refugees. In 1594, the king of Champa sent a military force to assist the Sultan of Johore to fight against the Portuguese in Malacca. While no explanation was given for the Cham king’s action, it is likely that it was influenced by the common Malay identity and possibly common Islamic faith of the rulers of Champa and their Malay counterparts.

According to the Babad Kelantan (Kelantan Annals), a Cham prince arrived in Kelantan in the mid-seventeenth century who was known as Nik Mustafa. After residing in Kelantan for many years, he returned to Champa and was made king, reigning with the title of Sultan Abdul Hamid. Another Cham ruler who is believed to have been Muslim was Po Rome’s son, Po Saut (1660–1692), the last ruler of independent Champa. He used the Malay title “Paduka Seri Sultan” in a letter he sent to the Dutch governor at Batavia in 1680. In 1685, he requested a copy of the Quran from Father Ferret, a French missionary serving in Champa.


The Cham classic entitled Nai Mai Mang Makah (The Princess from Kelantan) tells the story of a princess from Kelantan who was trying to convert the Cham king to Islam. The event was not dated. Po Dharma and Gerard Moussay are of the opinion that the event took place between the 1693 fall of Champa and the 1771 Tayson rebellion. Manguin suggests that Malay migration into Champa played its part in influencing the people to convert to Islam. Accordingly, the Chams were also influenced by the Malays to adhere to the Sunni Shafie sect and, like the Malays, they also kept traces of Shi’ite devotion. However, Manguin also believed that Malay migration to Champa was much more restricted, especially after Champa was absorbed by Vietnam.
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