History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedKiev Armies and Tactics

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
BigL View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-May-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kiev Armies and Tactics
    Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 00:59
Back to Top
Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Porphyrygenitus Augustii

Joined: 18-Jul-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 10:09
...Indeed! I never knew that Middle Ages Russia was that Poweful!
"Don't raise your voice - we all know how lovely it is!"
Triano, in "Mosterella" by Plautus! Read it...now!
Back to Top
Tobodai View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 01:30
Mother Russia is my favorite history to study in Europe.  The Kievian Rus and the rise of Muscovy are all such fun.  Im glad to see others taking notice.
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-May-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 02:14
I think its due to lack of knoledge maybe you could contribute
Back to Top
Roberts View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

aka axeman

Joined: 22-Aug-2005
Location: Riga
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 06:34
Some pictures with Russian medieval armies.



Back to Top
Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Porphyrygenitus Augustii

Joined: 18-Jul-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 11:14

It's sad that so many people these days think that Russian history amounts to the Soviet Union- i have a hard time convincing some cretins that Eastern Europe is not the same as Russia and that there is more to Russian history that the USSR. Russia is a fine country with an interesting culture and some enthralling history- i think that people need to take more notice of that. Have any of you guys encountered any of that "Russia" Steryotype?

"Don't raise your voice - we all know how lovely it is!"
Triano, in "Mosterella" by Plautus! Read it...now!
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 14:10
Originally posted by Earl Aster Earl Aster wrote:

...Indeed! I never knew that Middle Ages Russia was that Poweful!
 
There wasn't Russia in the middle Ages. There was Kievan Rus and it really wasn't that much powerful but the trade was well developed in that country. And Kievan Rus had rich cities but it wasn't a country powerful military.
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Status: Offline
Points: 5237
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 16:11
it was very powerful, it destroyed the Khazar empire, they fougth of the Pechenegs and they even invaded Byzantium.
Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-May-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 20:25

During the 1200s the Rus' battled virtually all their neighbors. During the period of Novgorodian independence it is estimated that the people of that city fought the Lithuanians 14 times, the Teutonic Knights 11 times, the Swedes 26 times, and the Norwegians 5 times. Rus' also fought Rus' as the Princes vied for control of the cities.

Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 01:27
Kiev was conquered twice in 11th century by Poles. Later on Lithuanians united almost whole western Rus and Novogrod was never fighting Teuton Knights. There weren't Teuton Knights anywhere near Rus. They were in Prussia. In Inflanty there was Order of Sword Knights. They were powerful only during Jaroslaw Madry reign and in the 10th century. Rus was divided and mostly fighting between themselves.
Back to Top
Roberts View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

aka axeman

Joined: 22-Aug-2005
Location: Riga
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 05:27
Originally posted by Majkes Majkes wrote:

Kiev was conquered twice in 11th century by Poles. Later on Lithuanians united almost whole western Rus and Novogrod was never fighting Teuton Knights. There weren't Teuton Knights anywhere near Rus. They were in Prussia. In Inflanty there was Order of Sword Knights. They were powerful only during Jaroslaw Madry reign and in the 10th century. Rus was divided and mostly fighting between themselves.


Actually Teutonic knights were near Rus, when The Order of Sword knights merged into Teutonic Order in 1237 to save their possesions in Livonia and Estonia.
And there has never been open war between any of Rus principalities and Teutonic Order.
Battle of Ice 1242 is heavily overestimated in history.


Edited by axeman - 22-Jul-2006 at 05:28
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 16:26

I didn't know they were one Order for 200 years. Nevertheless it was much smaller cousin of Teuton Knights. They had 180 Knights at their peak so they weren't really powerful. Russins never fouyght with real Teton Knights only in Grunwald were there were few Russins banners and they fought quite well.

Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Lord of Hut River Province Principality

Joined: 01-May-2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 04:59
Let's keep things going. I read a couple of years ago a primary source in which the Russians were laying siege to a castle in the Baltic (it may have been Riga, am not sure). They tried to copy the design of a catapult from their enemies, but designed it poorly. When they launched the payload from it, it fired backwards and crashed into their own troops, inflicting casualties. Not quite about Kiev, but perhaps an indication of some of the Russian backwardness when it came to the use of siege weaponry and artillery in the early medieval period.
It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

Back to Top
Roberts View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

aka axeman

Joined: 22-Aug-2005
Location: Riga
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 06:00
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Let's keep things going. I read a couple of years ago a primary source in which the Russians were laying siege to a castle in the Baltic (it may have been Riga, am not sure). They tried to copy the design of a catapult from their enemies, but designed it poorly. When they launched the payload from it, it fired backwards and crashed into their own troops, inflicting casualties. Not quite about Kiev, but perhaps an indication of some of the Russian backwardness when it came to the use of siege weaponry and artillery in the early medieval period.


That was siege of Salaspils 1206 (Holm, castle near Riga). The leader of Russ forces was Vladimir the Prince of Polotsk.
Indeed they managed to fire backwards, but I think it was due to some clumsy mistakes by their engineers.
I wouldn't label this event as sign of Russian backwardness, because sieges played minor role in their warfare compared with western Europe.
Back to Top
Sikander View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 12-Aug-2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 19:09
Yes, and later on (14th cent onwards) they became quite good with siege equipment (mangonels and such) as they even had state armouries to produce and keep that sort of equipment.
 
But the Russians were specially adepts of fighting on grassland. They had a good cavalry (copied from theit nomadic neighbours), a good-enough infantry armed with spears and crossbows and so they were quite capable of defending themselves from Western and Eastern enemies (namely after Kulikovo) and, of course, jump at eachother's throats!
 
Oh, and nice drawings, by the way!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.