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Forum LockedKashmir and central Asia

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Post Options Post Options   Quote creek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kashmir and central Asia
    Posted: 03-Feb-2008 at 01:09
I found this article interesting http://www.kashmirobserver.com/index.php?id=454
 
it basically says kashmir has more central asian influence then south asian.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Koshur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2008 at 23:49
Not surprising really, Kashmir is extremely north compared to the rest of India and Pakistan. It is also more north than most of Afghanistan. Also, its easier to get into Kashmir from Central Asia via the silk route than from India. As Kashmir is pretty much cut off from India for half the year due to heavy snow in the Pir Panjal and Himalayas.

That said, India has influenced Kashmir heavily over the past 60 years. Even the tibetan Ladakhi has an indian touch to it, whilst if you go across the border into Chinese Tibet, they are heavily influenced by China.
:o
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 00:30
               Huh Kashmir more central asian than suncontinental. This something that which is completely new to me. Could the author please clarify that what he meant by that. Discuss the features of Kashmir which according to him are more central asian than south asian. All the ancient books of the subcontinent talk about Kahmir as a complete part of south asia.
I would even go on to say that Kashmir relatively had less central asian influence compared to Pakistan and India because of its isolation. I would like to know that in which sense the person thinks that Kashmir is more central Asian than South Asian. Even Afghanistan is by many considered pretty much a part of South Asia.    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Koshur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 01:51
^ I think the author was talking about culture. Geography doesn't necessarily dominate the culture of a place. Afghanistan is considered South Asia, but its culture is not South Asian (thats what i thought it meant anyway). Climate, etc probably factor into it aswell, as Kashmir is the only region in India which does not get the monsoon rains. Geographically it is South Asia though.

Also, Kashmir has had mainly Central Asian influences only, compared to a lot of middle eastern/Arab influences that India/Pakistan received.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 02:27
      Yes that what i also want to talk about. What is in the culture of Kashmir that is more central asian. The central Asian influences which Kashmir recieved were through Pakistan.        
         And you got it wrong regarding Afghanistan. Geographically Afghanistan was never part of South asia it was only culturally part of south asia. The oldest culture of Afghanistan was Harappan which was based in Pakistan (South Asia). Afghanistan was home to the oldest farming communities a thing which can only be invented in the fertile lands of South Asia rather than the barren steppes of Central Asia. Bhuddism again was of South Asian orgination. The region of Gandhara extended from Indus to most of Afghanistan from where we have the Gandhara civilization. Roti with salan is the main cuisine of Afghanistan like Pakistan and South Asia, Shalwar Qamez and turban is also the common dress of both of these regions. Of course if by Central Asia you mean Persia then yes afghanistan had more influence from there. But culturally it was certainly not more a part of Central Asian states like Kazakhistan and Kyrgizstan than Pakistan.


Edited by bilal_ali_2000 - 04-Feb-2008 at 02:45
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 23:17
I would say that the author is correct, the Kashmir region and Pakistan for that matter have more in common with Central Asia and Persian cultural tendencies which have contributed to the distinctiveness of these two reasons, hence the uniqueness of Pakistan today and the continued struggle for independence by Kashmiri's currently under indian occupation.
 
While there does exist some spheres of overlap, the distinctiveness of each region is more significant.
 
Major road links leading into Kashmir were via Pakistan and Afghanistan.  I think as time passes and the fixation on ''religion'' wanes, the cultural, political,historical and customs will pull these regions back towards their original Central Asian and Eastern Middle Eastern (i.e. Persian) roots.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2008 at 09:01

     Sorry have to disagree. Anyone who knows history of this region will tell you just how absurd an idea it is that Kashmir more a part of Central Asia than South Asia. Every single document of this region talks about Kashmir as a part and parcel of this region. Compared to that please tell me that which other region other than South Asia talks about Kashmir as being in its sphere of influence. Which other country apart from Pakistan and India claims Kashmir. This region is defined by the Himalayas and Kashmir falls within the Himalyas. Kashmir have always been under kingdoms which were ruling South Asia be it the kingdom of Raja Dahir or the Mughals. Ranjit Singh also was a ruler from South Asia. You said India had only influenced Kahmit in the last 60 years. Well both India and Pakistan have been influencing Kahmir for thousands of years. Ansd really why wouldn't they Kashmir was righ next to them with little geographical barriers. While Kasmir was cut off from Central Asia by the Himalayas. If Kashmir had such fast links with Central Asia then why is that all the central asian invaders be it the Scythians, turks , Kushanis or Mughals first invade Afghanistan and thyem from there using the Khyber Pass moved into the sun-continent when they could just have easily moved into subcontinent from Kashmir. I'll tell you why they didn't. The towerong peaks of the Himalayas seperated Kashmir from Central Asia. Trekking those peeks even today for a small well equipped expedition is for most times a suicide mission so how come in those times carvans from central asian just walk right over these peaks,

The man who made that statement does not know what he is talking about.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 18:19
      Well if by Central Asia you mean Afghanistan then definetly Kasmir had a lot of influence from there. By Central Asia i took countries like Kyrshistan, Tajikistan and so on. However i still think that Kashmir had much more culturla contacts from Pakistan than Afghanistan. Pakistan's Punjab is host to a significant number of population from Kashmir.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2008 at 08:43
             Well no most of Kashmir is pretty much the same. And Afghanistan is not to the north of Kashmir but rather to its west.

Edited by bilal_ali_2000 - 24-Feb-2008 at 08:44
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2008 at 08:44
Originally posted by saba

kashmir is the same? have you ever been to kashmir? see the difference between Kashmir Valley and Jammu, its pretty different. Also the areas of Ladakh in Kashmir are more like Tibet. So no all of Kashmir is not same

 
       Yes i know ladakh is Tibetan. And Kashmir is different from Jammu because Jammu is predominently Hindu whereas Kashmir is predominently muslim. Still the history of Kashmir goes very far back in time and the history books of the region list the Aryan kings from Kashmir from about 2000 B.C and the kashmiri historian Kalhana was one of the prime historians of this regon. There are many ancient relics in Kashmir temples and palaces. And there is even a script used there which is so different from the other scripts used in the region that it is undecipehered.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AMAR420 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2008 at 22:03
Ancestors of original  Kashmiris were Hindus, Kashmiri Pundits are closest to the original Aryans DNA wise
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Koshur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 23:59
What is up with this 'original Aryan' crap? why is it that Indians and KP's love to say that and go on and on about it. Most koshur speaking Kashmiris have KP tribe names even today, and those KP tribes have had mixed genetics from long ago. You will find Sapru's with tibetan blood, Siroojis with Persian blood etc etc, its been mixed for a very long time. Due to this huge diversity in gene pool, you get people in the same family ranging from sino looks to caucasian looks.

And as for Aryan DNA, I'm Kashmiri from KP lineage (been in the valley for very very long time), my Ydna is J2a1b, having a 95%+ similarity to cohen blood line (lol), 90% similarity to Greeks according to genebase, which pretty much proves that my Y-ancestor moved to Kashmir (yonks ago). Ancestors were bhuddist and hindu at one time. converted to islam not that long ago.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote AMAR420 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2008 at 21:20

good for you

 
R1a1 is supposed to be the gene marker though
 
also there is a Mediterannean gene marker amongst north Indians
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jallaludin Akbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2009 at 01:19
Originally posted by arze

kashmir valley is definatly more central asian,Jammu is more indianized

I don't understand the meaning of more central asian and more indianized. Care to share more info on that? Also it is true that Kashmir as a muslim majority region while Jammu contains a greater majority of hindus. 
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2009 at 01:46
He is a spammer/banned member so I am sure he won't divulge anything else Approve and his post will be hidden to avoid further confusion.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote 00historylover00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2009 at 23:42
Yes I would agree with this, they are more linked to persian/afghan culture then indian. They are up to the north and they have less influence from India, because of where Kashmir is located. That is why many kashmiri's want Kashmir to be their own country because of how different they are from India. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 00historylover00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2009 at 23:45
Kosher: Yes I agree with  you, many people are yapping about the Aryan Crap.  They link practically everyone to Aryans ! Sheesh next thing you know they'll be saying Africans are Aryans or something. (no offense to Africans if you take this offending ) 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 00historylover00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2009 at 23:46
nah,,, The comment I made Persian/Afghan culture thing. I think now that Kashmiris have their own kinda culture.
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