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Forum LockedIstanbul’s Skyline

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    Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 13:52
Originally posted by cebeci

istanbul is expensive

istanbul is dirty

istanbul is impolite

istanbul is crowded

istanbul is noisy

so on so on so on

if you give the sun in my hand and the moon in the other i wouldn't exchange ankara to istanbul

Yeah but remember she is loved by 15.000.000 people.

I think ankara dont need moon or sun but a soul.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 14:03
No, not all the people who lives there, loves Istanbul.

Ankara is known as the Gray City. Because of having cold, cloudy weather and official buildings, I guess.

I think it is better this way.

Edited by barish
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 14:08

Not all people but majority

Ankara have not sea(be sure a very very big minus ), also It have not much historical beauty.

And as I said, It have no soul, It is too monoton. to much memur.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 14:14
People were living in this region long before your city was builded.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 14:14
How good is the public transit in Istanbul? It looks so big but I thought the same about Athens when I first went there. I was there for a whole month for my second trip and started to realize it was not so confusing as I had first thought. I am sure the same would be true about Istanbul. London is still my favorite big city!! I do not care for large American cities because they tend to be violent; this is why I live in a small remote city.

Barish have you ever seen the walls of theodosius? The two sites I dream of seeing in Istanbul are the Agia Sophia and the walls of Theodosius.
Outside of Istanbul I would like to see the ruins of troy but I imagine Troy is crowded with tourists.
Are there a lot of parks in the city?
How about public transit in Thrace?
I would like to visit the ruins of my grandfathers villege someday in Eastern Thrace.

Edited by eaglecap
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 14:21

eaglecap

I am living at istanbul and be sure I lost my way more than one

Problem with istanbul is that, It is not built by a plan. It is easy to lost your way, If you leave main ways.

Also Istanbul is very large, I am sure not even one man at istanbul know all city.

But np, If you ask someone way, they will show you.

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 14:45
Hagia Sophia is wonderful, but it needs some restoration I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 15:31
Originally posted by Mortaza

<SPAN =bold>eaglecap</SPAN>


I am living at istanbul and be sure I lost my way more than one


Problem with istanbul is that, It is not built by a plan. It is easy to lost your way, If you leave main ways.


Also Istanbul is very large, I am sure not even one man at istanbul know all city.


But np, If you ask someone way, they will show you.







I have been told that the people in Istanbul are friendly but what about bus, train or taxi?
Once when I was in Athens during an anti Afganistan war rally and the buses all stopped and I had to find my way back to the flat I was staying at. I thought I would never find it but I followed the bus signs all the way back.
I think you would like visiting Spokane because it is a very beautiful city and people are very friendly and helpful. I like European cities and if I ever came Istanbul it would be a treat.Istanbul is different though because it is on the cross roads.
15 million though -wow.
I know the Los Angeles area in California is around that. I spent a little time in LA

Istanbul

LA California

I wonder who has a worse smog problem? Athens is terrible in the summer. We get smog in Spokane but it pales compared to Athens or LA.
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 15:45

I have been told that the people in Istanbul are friendly but what about bus, train or taxi?

You can find them everywhere(ofcourse except train) trafic is a little bad.Also some ot taxi may get extra payment for just because you dont know turkish

No need to afraid, you should learn a big center of istanbul, like taksim, mecidiyeköy, or beþiktas(for europea side). You can go this large centers every place of istanbul.

By the way, dont forget ships, a ship voyage is best part of istanbul. Speacialy one from uskudar(asian side) to besiktas.

you can feed some birds too.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 16:19
eaglecap;

http://www.epinions.com/content_81310944900

Istanbul, not Constantinople
Nov 18 '02 (Updated Nov 18 '02)

Author's Product Rating
Product Rating: 5border=


Pros

Huge wealth of sites, easy to navigate, cheap

Cons
None

The Bottom Line
There is a huge amount to see in Istanbul, all for a reasonable price. You do not have to be part of a tour group to enjoy it!

Full Review
We spent 3 days in Istanbul to finish up a 3 week vacation to Iceland, Greece, and Turkey. It was a great way to finish off our vacation. We were backpacking and not part of a tour group. It's a very easy city, with almost all of the main tourists sites lined up in a straight line.

Getting there and Orientation
We arrived in Istanbul from Ankara on the bus. The bus first stopped at a port on the Asian side of the Bosphorous, then went on to the main bus station. As is the case elsewhere, the bus station is located quite a distance from downtown. We made the mistake at this point of taking the free 'connector' bus service to downtown. This small shuttle waited around at the station for about half an hour before leaving for downtown. We would have done much better getting local transportation to get downtown (although this is slightly complicated, and involves taking a bus, and then connecting to the tram)

For tourists, Sultanahmet is the place to be. All of the big 'must-see'''s are clustered around in this area: the Blue Mosque, the underground cisterns, the Aya Sofia, and of course the Topkapi Palace. The Grand Bazaar is also just a short walk away.

Moonlight Pension
For the sake of convenience (and not because of price!) we found a hotel in Sultanahmet. Moonlight Pension (http://abone.superonline.com/~moonlight, 517 54 29, 87 Akbiriki Cad) was our guidebook's recommended hotel - and while it was clean and conveniently located, it wasn't the nicest place we've stayed in.

The hotel is located about a 5 minute walk from the Blue Mosque, and was pretty easy to find. As you try to find your hotel, you *will* be hassled to go to another hotel. Just ignore the pushers, they are not persistent. If you take a taxi, and he claims the hotel is no good, or is already full, insist anyways. They're often paid a commission to re-route you to their brother's hotel.

The hotel is in a nondescript small building with not many rooms. The room was a reasonable size and very clean, although the railing on the stairs had fallen off, and the lights in the hallway were often broken. (we once had to use a flashlight to get back to our room!)

We paid 50 Euros per night, with AC in the room. The AC worked well (although sometimes a little too well). The price for our room also included breakfast on the rooftop, which unfortunately started rather late (8am) and was slow to arrive. The wife of the owner of the hotel made and served the breakfast. They had a very cute (but sadly unentertained) child hanging about on the rooftop. What was strange was that every morning we had breakfast, the child had a different set of filthy clothes on. It was upsetting to us that we were paying what (in Turkish lira) was a huge amount of money, and yet this child did not appear to be being taken care of properly.

We didn't prepay for our room, or leave a credit card imprint. The owner was fine with this until the day before we were supposed to leave, when we could feel he was getting a little uncomfortable. We offered to pay with a credit card, but suddenly the price of the room jumped 5%. We told him fine, we'll pay cash then, but we need to hit an ATM, we'll be right back. But even that he was uncomfortable with: we ended up splitting the difference of the 5%. It was just sort of surprising to us. (of course, unintentionally, we got him back: When we returned to California we realized we'd stolen the room key.. that's what happens when you leave a hotel at 5am!)

Dining
We ate two dinners in Sultanhamet, and both were expensive and bland. (in addition, I believe my wife got sick from eating at one of them). The guidebook warned us about restaurants in this area, but they were close to our hotel and we were exhuasted by the end of the day. We ate one meal in Taksim, at Haci Abdullah. It was a delicious local 'Locanta' that has been there since 1888. It's real Turkish food, and has a colorful display of pickles in the window. It's at 17 Sakizagaci Cad. just off the main street in Taksim.

Safety in Istanbul
Unfortunately, there are a few safety issues you should be aware of in Istanbul. Taxis are notorious for ripping off tourists picked up in Sultanahmet or Taksim - make sure the 'day rate' is set during the day (one light on the meter, not two). It's a good idea to ask at the hotel you're staying at where there is a reputable taxi stand.

In addition, be aware that there are other tourist scams going on in night clubs. New 'friends' will leave an exorbitant bill. That drink might be drugged. Use common sense, it's a very, very big city with typical big city safety problems.

The Blue Mosque
Our first stop in Istanbul was the Blue Mosque. It's not actually blue on the outside, but the tiles inside it are. It was the Sultan Ahmet's response to the Aya Sofia and was completed in 1617.

Be sure to attend outside prayer times. Men should be wearing pants, and women should cover their head (if you don't have a head covering, one will be provided for you). When we visited, the Mosque was packed with noisy tourists. The locals who were praying seemed oblivious to it, but I can't help but think they get tired of it. Yes, there was a lot of tourists, but people were not making much effort to lower their voice - they just didn't seem to care this is actually a holy place of worship, and not just another tourist site.

Once inside, you will be amazed by the blue tiles, and the massive chandelier hanging down from the ceiling with barely visible wires.

In the evening, there is a light show outside the Mosque. The show is in a different language each day. We happened to catch it in English, and left half way through, bored (as most tourists did). If you happen to be in the area, it's worth stopping for a few minutes to look at the Mosque bathed in blue light, but the story is really not worth your time.

The Aya Sofia
The Aya Sofia was built in 532. The exterior was painted blood red by Emporor Justinian to warn potential revolutionaries. The dome was originally a lot higher and bigger then what you see today, but an earthquake just 20 years after it's construction destroyed it. It remained one the most beautiful churches in the world for a thousand years, when Mehmet the Conqueror tacked on a Minaret and converted it into a Mosque. Finally in 1932 Attaturk converted it into a Museum.

Unfortunately when we visited (Summer 2002), the interior was undergoing massive restoration and we couldn't see much of the roof. The size is amazing, but we were underwhelmed by the state that it was in. There's a lot of damage here, and only a hint at the former beauty. Be sure to check out the sweating pillar. It is rumoured that if you stick your finger (and turn it around) and feel water, you will be healed. Uh huh.

There is a gallery on the second floor, but it's expensive to get in ($10) and we passed.

Topkapi Palace
Before you visit, make sure you have a high enough credit limit. The Palace is the most expensive site we've ever visited, anywhere. Admission to all three sections of it (main entrance, Harem, and Treasury) will cost you about $30. Of course we paid. I understand gouging the tourists (and applaud their understanding of capitalism for doing so - who is going to come to Istanbul and *not* see the Topkapi palace?) but what was unfair was that the prices for students and for Turks was not substantially lower - putting an amazing part of history out of the reach of a lot of people.

Ok, so it's time for a note of warning. The Palace is big. Really, really big. There is a lot to see. And it's all very impressive. Be prepared to spend a full day here, and be well rested beforehand. Bring food and water, as there aren't that many options inside the palace. And bring a lot of film, although they won't let you take pictures in many places.

There are four courtyards to the palace. Only the first is accesible without a ticket, and there is really nothing to see here. The second court contains the INner Treasury, with gold leaf ceilings and a peep-hole the Sultan used to spy on arriving VIP's. Off this court you will also find the Imperial Kitchens, and a collection of silver and European procelain. Some of these rooms might be closed, it depends on when you go.

The third court contains the Library of Ahmet III (closed), the School fo the Expeditionary Pages (costumes and kaftans, and the first baggy trousers - isn't it amazing how style comes full circle! ) As well, you will find the entrance to the Palace Treasury, and the Hall of the Treasury, with 37 portraits of 37 sultans. If you're not tired and moving at about 10 sultans a minute by now, you're doing better then we did. The treasure dormitory houses Islamic works of art, although it was closed when we were there. Or maybe we'd just had enough. The Pavillion of Holy Relics was probably beautiful, but we were really tired by then. I remember the soundproof glass cubicle from which the muezzin made the call to prayer.

The fourth courtyard has a beautiful Tulip Garden (or whatever happens ot be blooming when you're there.) There is another Iznik (blue) tiled pavillion, the Circumcision Room (where young princes would be snipped), and more upliftingly, a beuatiful view of the Bosphorous.

Oof. I get tired and dizzy just thinking about the amount of stuff in that museum.

The Harem now requires you to take a guided tour. You must first line up to buy a ticket (it is not available in the main ticket booth). Then, you are herded through the narrow corridors of the Harem (we counted 50 tourists in a group that was only supposed to have 30) with your tour guide so far ahead you have no chance of being able to follow. Make sure you bring your own guidebook - especially if you want the time to take pictures. A security guard brings up the tail of the pack, and prods you on if you fall behind in the tour, so that you dont get mixed up in the group coming right up behind you. It wasn't a pleasent experience, and they were making a LOT of money off it!

That being said, however, the Harem has some magnificent rooms. See our photos for some examples of the splendour that your $10 will get you.

The Treasury features the Spoonmaker's diamond (7th largest in the world), as well as the Topkapi Dagger. The diamond is truly a sight to behold - the other displays of unthinkable wealth also make this a worthwhile experience. There are golden thrones, amazing chain mail, a diamond-encrusted anchor, and a silver hand with reportedly John the Baptist's bones.


The Underground Cistern
This underground area is located between the Aya Sofia and the Blue Mosque. It is a huge cave with 336 columns, with walkways leading you around the cave, over the water. Water drips down the roof above, and piped in classical music accompany the funky light show playing off the pillars and water. The cistern was created for the Topkapi Palace - it's served many purposes, from moving goods to watering the lawn. Watch your step as you walk here, the ground is often wet from the dripping water. Be sure to check out the sideways and upside down Medusa Head at the end of the cavern, whose origin is still debated today.

There is a cafe overlooking the water, where there is sometimes concerts. You exit the cavern through a set of a stairs leading to a bookstore, with some English language books.

Taksim
Taksim Square is the location of some very upscale hotels, as well as the Ataturk Cultural Center. Istakal Cad is the main road leading off from the square, and is an upscale shopping area during the day, and a club scene at night. There is a tram that runs up and down Istakal Cad, but it's not really faster then walking, and closes early. At the bottom of Istakal Cad is the Tunel Metro, which is the world's oldest (and shortest) subway. It's only got one stop, and leads straight down to the port and Galata Bridge, near the fish market.

Istakal Cad at night is an amazing scene, and is not to be missed. Be careful however to plan your route back. At midnight, we found ourselves a bit stranded: The Tunel was shut down, and there didn't seem to be an easy way to get a bus back across to sultanahmet. We should have cabbed it, but instead decided to walk. It was a long walk down some very dark streets (with some nervous moments), back to the bridge, and on to the tramway (we caught the last one!) on the other side back to Sultanahmet. It was not a walk women should take alone. So, if you're staying in Sultanahmet, either be prepared to take a cab ride home (and potentially be ripped off), or leave early while public transportation is still feasable.

The Grand Bazaar
The Grand Bazaar has over 4000 shops, banks, mosques, police stations, fountains, and restaurants. It is the largest bazaar in the world. As you walk in on Kalpakcilarbasi Cad., you will think it's just like a shopping mall. This is only jeweller's row, however. Take a right and dive into the main bazaar area, with shopkeepers nipping at your heels, carpet sellers begging you to have tea with them, etc. After our experience in Moroccan medinas, this seemed pretty tame. The shopkeepers knew when to back down, and the carpet sellers, while persistent, were never threateningly so - even when we teased shopowner after shopowner as we tried to find the perfect carpet.

Almost the entire bazaar is covered, so it's a great place to go if it's raining, or too hot. If you still get too hot, just wander into any carpet shop and they will close the door and turn on the AC, plunging the small room into subarctic temperatures in no time at all.

The shops sell almost everything. What was missing (and what I much preferred about the Moroccan medina) was the craftsmen creating the goods. Nothing is made in the bazaar, it's all imported (sometimes even from Turkey) and just sold here.

Although all the guide books warned us about how hopelessly lost you will certainly get, we found this was totally not the case. Not only was there street signs and tourist information signs up everywhere, but the layout of the city is pretty straightforward, with many landmarks (like the old bazaar) helping to locate you when you get lost. But again, nothing (and I mean nothing) compares to the complexity and confusingness of the market in Fez!

The Grand Bazaar is an easy 10 minute walk up the tram tracks from Sultanahmet. It is another *must see* when visiting Istanbul.

Egyptian Spice Bazaar
Misir Carsisi, or the Egyptian Spice Bazaar, is a good next destination after the Grand Bazaar. Walk through the narrow streets filled with everyday shops, and you will eventually get to the Spice Bazaar. Don't be worried about asking anyone for directions, everyone we talked to was very helpful.

My guidebook describes the Spice Bazaar as a "sensory overload" and I couldn't agree more. There are dozens of stalls selling very fragrant spices, tea, nuts, etc. We got the feeling that this was more authentic then the Grand Bazaar (and no carpet shops!). Just outside the waterfront gate in the Spice Bazaar, Rustem Pasa Camii is a mosque worth seeing.

Kadikoy
We took a ferry from Eminonu to Kadikoy to get a sampling of the Asian side of Istanbul. This is a residential and commercial area that is an easy escape from the tourist trap that is Istanbul. Frequent ferries run quickly there. There is a street market, jeweler's stores (with reasonable prices), bakeries, traditional restaurants, etc. There is not much English spoken here, and we felt we were the first tourists they had seen in months! It was an interesting experience though, and we got some killer photos of the sunset over the Blue Mosque on the way back. We'd like to say that was planned, but, well, not so much.

Thanks for reading. Please feel free to email me any questions or leave a comment! You can check out my website for pictures of Turkey. You can find the website at
http://www.ianandwendy.com/OtherTrips/IcelandGreeceTurkey/ Turkey/TurkeyTitle.htm

Also, you can check out my other reviews of Turkey:
A backpacker's overview of Turkey
http://www.epinions.com/content_81310748292

Kusadasi, Ephesus and Pamukkale
http://www.epinions.com/content_81311927940

You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike (Capadoccia)
http://www.epinions.com/content_81312190084

and

It might be the capital, but your time is better spent elsewhere
http://www.epinions.com/content_81312648836




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 16:25
I missed istanbul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 19:10

Originally posted by barish

Istanbul's view at night from a plane is far more impressive than that.

indeed it is impressive. i had the pleasure to fly from istanbul in the evening and the view was amazing. It felt like being in an infinite sea of light, it spanned the horizon.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 23:44
Originally posted by THE TURK

<span ="bold">eaglecap;

http://www.epinions.com/content_81310944900

</spanspan ="bold"/span>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<ttrtd ="nav-new-1-pixel" style="border-right: 0px none;"span ="xkr">Istanbul, not Constantinople</span>
             <span ="rgr">Nov 18 '02 (Updated Nov 18 '02)</span>
             <span ="rkb">Author's Product Rating</span>
             Product Rating: 5border=
             

             

             
             <span ="rkr">

                           ProsHuge wealth of sites, easy to navigate, cheap
             ConsNone
             

             The Bottom LineThere is a huge amount to see in Istanbul, all for a reasonable price. You do not have to be part of a tour group to enjoy it!

             
             
             </span/td>
        </tr>
        <tr bgcolor="#eff7ff">
             <td ="nav-new-1-pixel" style="border-right: 0px none;" height="25" valign="middle"span ="rkr">Full Review</span /td>          ; </tr>
        <tr>
             <td ="nav-new-1-pixel" style="border-right: 0px none; padding-top: 10px;">
             <span ="rkr">
We spent 3 days in Istanbul to finish up a 3 week vacation to Iceland,
Greece, and Turkey. It was a great way to finish off our vacation. We
were backpacking and not part of a tour group. It's a very easy city,
with almost all of the main tourists sites lined up in a straight line.


Getting there and Orientation
We arrived in Istanbul from Ankara on the bus. The bus first
stopped at a port on the Asian side of the Bosphorous, then went on to
the main bus station. As is the case elsewhere, the bus station is
located quite a distance from downtown. We made the mistake at this
point of taking the free 'connector' bus service to downtown. This
small shuttle waited around at the station for about half an hour
before leaving for downtown. We would have done much better getting
local transportation to get downtown (although this is slightly
complicated, and involves taking a bus, and then connecting to the
tram)


For tourists, Sultanahmet is the place to be. All of the
big 'must-see'''s are clustered around in this area: the Blue Mosque,
the underground cisterns, the Aya Sofia, and of course the Topkapi
Palace. The Grand Bazaar is also just a short walk away.


Moonlight Pension
For the sake of convenience (and not because of price!) we found a
hotel in Sultanahmet. Moonlight Pension
(http://abone.superonline.com/~moonlight, 517 54 29, 87 Akbiriki Cad)
was our guidebook's recommended hotel - and while it was clean and
conveniently located, it wasn't the nicest place we've stayed in.

The hotel is located about a 5 minute walk from the Blue Mosque, and
was pretty easy to find. As you try to find your hotel, you *will* be
hassled to go to another hotel. Just ignore the pushers, they are not
persistent. If you take a taxi, and he claims the hotel is no good, or
is already full, insist anyways. They're often paid a commission to
re-route you to their brother's hotel.

The hotel is in a nondescript small building with not many rooms. The
room was a reasonable size and very clean, although the railing on the
stairs had fallen off, and the lights in the hallway were often broken.
(we once had to use a flashlight to get back to our room!)

We paid 50 Euros per night, with AC in the room. The AC worked well
(although sometimes a little too well). The price for our room also
included breakfast on the rooftop, which unfortunately started rather
late (8am) and was slow to arrive. The wife of the owner of the hotel
made and served the breakfast. They had a very cute (but sadly
unentertained) child hanging about on the rooftop. What was strange was
that every morning we had breakfast, the child had a different set of
filthy clothes on. It was upsetting to us that we were paying what (in
Turkish lira) was a huge amount of money, and yet this child did not
appear to be being taken care of properly.

We didn't prepay for our room, or leave a credit card imprint. The
owner was fine with this until the day before we were supposed to
leave, when we could feel he was getting a little uncomfortable. We
offered to pay with a credit card, but suddenly the price of the room
jumped 5%. We told him fine, we'll pay cash then, but we need to hit an
ATM, we'll be right back. But even that he was uncomfortable with: we
ended up splitting the difference of the 5%. It was just sort of
surprising to us. (of course, unintentionally, we got him back: When we
returned to California we realized we'd stolen the room key.. that's
what happens when you leave a hotel at 5am!)


Dining
We ate two dinners in Sultanhamet, and both were expensive and
bland. (in addition, I believe my wife got sick from eating at one of
them). The guidebook warned us about restaurants in this area, but they
were close to our hotel and we were exhuasted by the end of the day. We
ate one meal in Taksim, at Haci Abdullah. It was a delicious local
'Locanta' that has been there since 1888. It's real Turkish food, and
has a colorful display of pickles in the window. It's at 17 Sakizagaci
Cad. just off the main street in Taksim.


Safety in Istanbul
Unfortunately, there are a few safety issues you should be aware of
in Istanbul. Taxis are notorious for ripping off tourists picked up in
Sultanahmet or Taksim - make sure the 'day rate' is set during the day
(one light on the meter, not two). It's a good idea to ask at the hotel
you're staying at where there is a reputable taxi stand.

In addition, be aware that there are other tourist scams going on in
night clubs. New 'friends' will leave an exorbitant bill. That drink
might be drugged. Use common sense, it's a very, very big city with
typical big city safety problems.

The Blue Mosque

Our first stop in Istanbul was the Blue Mosque. It's not actually blue
on the outside, but the tiles inside it are. It was the Sultan Ahmet's
response to the Aya Sofia and was completed in 1617.

Be sure to attend outside prayer times. Men should be wearing
pants, and women should cover their head (if you don't have a head
covering, one will be provided for you). When we visited, the Mosque
was packed with noisy tourists. The locals who were praying seemed
oblivious to it, but I can't help but think they get tired of it. Yes,
there was a lot of tourists, but people were not making much effort to
lower their voice - they just didn't seem to care this is actually a
holy place of worship, and not just another tourist site.

Once inside, you will be amazed by the blue tiles, and the massive
chandelier hanging down from the ceiling with barely visible wires.

In the evening, there is a light show outside the Mosque. The show is
in a different language each day. We happened to catch it in English,
and left half way through, bored (as most tourists did). If you happen
to be in the area, it's worth stopping for a few minutes to look at the
Mosque bathed in blue light, but the story is really not worth your
time.

The Aya Sofia

The Aya Sofia was built in 532. The exterior was painted blood red by
Emporor Justinian to warn potential revolutionaries. The dome was
originally a lot higher and bigger then what you see today, but an
earthquake just 20 years after it's construction destroyed it. It
remained one the most beautiful churches in the world for a thousand
years, when Mehmet the Conqueror tacked on a Minaret and converted it
into a Mosque. Finally in 1932 Attaturk converted it into a Museum.

Unfortunately when we visited (Summer 2002), the interior was
undergoing massive restoration and we couldn't see much of the roof.
The size is amazing, but we were underwhelmed by the state that it was
in. There's a lot of damage here, and only a hint at the former beauty.
Be sure to check out the sweating pillar. It is rumoured that if you
stick your finger (and turn it around) and feel water, you will be
healed. Uh huh.


There is a gallery on the second floor, but it's expensive to get in ($10) and we passed.


Topkapi Palace
Before you visit, make sure you have a high enough credit limit.
The Palace is the most expensive site we've ever visited, anywhere.
Admission to all three sections of it (main entrance, Harem, and
Treasury) will cost you about $30. Of course we paid. I understand
gouging the tourists (and applaud their understanding of capitalism for
doing so - who is going to come to Istanbul and *not* see the Topkapi
palace?) but what was unfair was that the prices for students and for
Turks was not substantially lower - putting an amazing part of history out of the reach of a lot of people.


Ok, so it's time for a note of warning. The Palace is big. Really,
really big. There is a lot to see. And it's all very impressive. Be
prepared to spend a full day here, and be well rested beforehand. Bring
food and water, as there aren't that many options inside the palace.
And bring a lot of film, although they won't let you take pictures in
many places.

There are four courtyards to the palace. Only the first is
accesible without a ticket, and there is really nothing to see here. The second court
contains the INner Treasury, with gold leaf ceilings and a peep-hole
the Sultan used to spy on arriving VIP's. Off this court you will also
find the Imperial Kitchens, and a collection of silver and European
procelain. Some of these rooms might be closed, it depends on when you
go.

The third court contains the Library of Ahmet III (closed), the
School fo the Expeditionary Pages (costumes and kaftans, and the first
baggy trousers - isn't it amazing how style comes full circle! ) As
well, you will find the entrance to the Palace Treasury, and the Hall
of the Treasury, with 37 portraits of 37 sultans. If you're not tired
and moving at about 10 sultans a minute by now, you're doing better
then we did. The treasure dormitory houses Islamic works of art,
although it was closed when we were there. Or maybe we'd just had
enough. The Pavillion of Holy Relics was probably beautiful, but we
were really tired by then. I remember the soundproof glass cubicle from
which the muezzin made the call to prayer.


The fourth courtyard has a beautiful Tulip Garden (or whatever
happens ot be blooming when you're there.) There is another Iznik
(blue) tiled pavillion, the Circumcision Room (where young princes
would be snipped), and more upliftingly, a beuatiful view of the
Bosphorous.


Oof. I get tired and dizzy just thinking about the amount of stuff in that museum.


The Harem now requires you to take a guided tour. You must first
line up to buy a ticket (it is not available in the main ticket booth).
Then, you are herded through the narrow corridors of the Harem (we
counted 50 tourists in a group that was only supposed to have 30) with
your tour guide so far ahead you have no chance of being able to
follow. Make sure you bring your own guidebook - especially if you want
the time to take pictures. A security guard brings up the tail of the
pack, and prods you on if you fall behind in the tour, so that you dont
get mixed up in the group coming right up behind you. It wasn't a
pleasent experience, and they were making a LOT of money off it!

That being said, however, the Harem has some magnificent rooms. See
our photos for some examples of the splendour that your $10 will get
you.


The Treasury features the Spoonmaker's diamond (7th largest in
the world), as well as the Topkapi Dagger. The diamond is truly a sight
to behold - the other displays of unthinkable wealth also make this a
worthwhile experience. There are golden thrones, amazing chain mail, a
diamond-encrusted anchor, and a silver hand with reportedly John the
Baptist's bones.



The Underground Cistern
This underground area is located between the Aya Sofia and the Blue
Mosque. It is a huge cave with 336 columns, with walkways leading you
around the cave, over the water. Water drips down the roof above, and
piped in classical music accompany the funky light show playing off the
pillars and water. The cistern was created for the Topkapi Palace -
it's served many purposes, from moving goods to watering the lawn.
Watch your step as you walk here, the ground is often wet from the
dripping water. Be sure to check out the sideways and upside down
Medusa Head at the end of the cavern, whose origin is still debated
today.

There is a cafe overlooking the water, where there is sometimes
concerts. You exit the cavern through a set of a stairs leading to a
bookstore, with some English language books.


Taksim
Taksim Square is the location of some very upscale hotels, as well
as the Ataturk Cultural Center. Istakal Cad is the main road leading
off from the square, and is an upscale shopping area during the day,
and a club scene at night. There is a tram that runs up and down
Istakal Cad, but it's not really faster then walking, and closes early.
At the bottom of Istakal Cad is the Tunel Metro, which is the world's
oldest (and shortest) subway. It's only got one stop, and leads
straight down to the port and Galata Bridge, near the fish market.

Istakal Cad at night is an amazing scene, and is not to be missed.
Be careful however to plan your route back. At midnight, we found
ourselves a bit stranded: The Tunel was shut down, and there didn't
seem to be an easy way to get a bus back across to sultanahmet. We
should have cabbed it, but instead decided to walk. It was a long walk
down some very dark streets (with some nervous moments), back to the
bridge, and on to the tramway (we caught the last one!) on the other
side back to Sultanahmet. It was not a walk women should take alone.
So, if you're staying in Sultanahmet, either be prepared to take a cab
ride home (and potentially be ripped off), or leave early while public
transportation is still feasable.


The Grand Bazaar
The Grand Bazaar has over 4000 shops, banks, mosques, police
stations, fountains, and restaurants. It is the largest bazaar in the
world. As you walk in on Kalpakcilarbasi Cad., you will think it's just
like a shopping mall. This is only jeweller's row, however. Take a
right and dive into the main bazaar area, with shopkeepers nipping at
your heels, carpet sellers begging you to have tea with them, etc.
After our experience in Moroccan medinas, this seemed pretty tame. The
shopkeepers knew when to back down, and the carpet sellers, while
persistent, were never threateningly so - even when we teased shopowner
after shopowner as we tried to find the perfect carpet.

Almost the entire bazaar is covered, so it's a great place to go if
it's raining, or too hot. If you still get too hot, just wander into
any carpet shop and they will close the door and turn on the AC,
plunging the small room into subarctic temperatures in no time at all.

The shops sell almost everything. What was missing (and what I much
preferred about the Moroccan medina) was the craftsmen creating the
goods. Nothing is made in the bazaar, it's all imported (sometimes even
from Turkey) and just sold here.

Although all the guide books warned us about how hopelessly lost you
will certainly get, we found this was totally not the case. Not only
was there street signs and tourist information signs up everywhere, but
the layout of the city is pretty straightforward, with many landmarks
(like the old bazaar) helping to locate you when you get lost. But
again, nothing (and I mean nothing) compares to the complexity and confusingness of the market in Fez!


The Grand Bazaar is an easy 10 minute walk up the tram tracks from
Sultanahmet. It is another *must see* when visiting Istanbul.


Egyptian Spice Bazaar
Misir Carsisi, or the Egyptian Spice Bazaar, is a good next
destination after the Grand Bazaar. Walk through the narrow streets
filled with everyday shops, and you will eventually get to the Spice
Bazaar. Don't be worried about asking anyone for directions, everyone
we talked to was very helpful.

My guidebook describes the Spice Bazaar as a "sensory overload" and
I couldn't agree more. There are dozens of stalls selling very fragrant
spices, tea, nuts, etc. We got the feeling that this was more authentic
then the Grand Bazaar (and no carpet shops!). Just outside the
waterfront gate in the Spice Bazaar, Rustem Pasa Camii is a mosque
worth seeing.

Kadikoy

We took a ferry from Eminonu to Kadikoy to get a sampling of the Asian
side of Istanbul. This is a residential and commercial area that is an
easy escape from the tourist trap that is Istanbul. Frequent ferries
run quickly there. There is a street market, jeweler's stores (with
reasonable prices), bakeries, traditional restaurants, etc. There is
not much English spoken here, and we felt we were the first tourists
they had seen in months! It was an interesting experience though, and
we got some killer photos of the sunset over the Blue Mosque on the way
back. We'd like to say that was planned, but, well, not so much.

Thanks for reading. Please feel free to email me any questions or
leave a comment! You can check out my website for pictures of Turkey.
You can find the website at
http://www.ianandwendy.com/OtherTrips/IcelandGreeceTurkey/ Turkey/TurkeyTitle.htm


Also, you can check out my other reviews of Turkey:

A backpacker's overview of Turkey

http://www.epinions.com/content_81310748292


Kusadasi, Ephesus and Pamukkale

http://www.epinions.com/content_81311927940


You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike (Capadoccia)

http://www.epinions.com/content_81312190084


and


It might be the capital, but your time is better spent elsewhere

http://www.epinions.com/content_81312648836




             
             Recommended
             Yes
             
             Best Suited For/B] Couples Best Time to Travel Here/B] Anytime
             
             
             </span/td/tr/t>
</table>



Thank you and I appreciate it. I put Constantinople to represent its long history and yes it is no longer called by that name. I suppose it is the Greek half that made me do it-
I have been to London and Athens and found my way around but if I go it will be there to teach English and not as a tourist. I have job offers also in Italy, Greece, and Taiwan. Taiwan pays the best so I am not sure at this point and I don't have make the choice till the end of June. I am going to also look at South America, Finland and even Iceland. If I am offered a job at the community College's Adult center then I will stay in Spokane.
I suspect New York City would be a bigger nightmare to find you way around than Istanbul. I have only passed through the Big Apple. I will print this out and I thank thee again. I really enjoyed reading about your adventure in Istanbul!!
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 07:54
Originally posted by THE TURK

Taksim
Taksim Square is the location of some very upscale hotels, as well
as the Ataturk Cultural Center. Istakal Cad is the main road leading
off from the square, and is an upscale shopping area during the day,
and a club scene at night. There is a tram that runs up and down
Istakal Cad, but it's not really faster then walking, and closes early.
At the bottom of Istakal Cad is the Tunel Metro, which is the world's
oldest (and shortest) subway. It's only got one stop, and leads
straight down to the port and Galata Bridge, near the fish market.

Istakal Cad at night is an amazing scene, and is not to be missed.
Be careful however to plan your route back. At midnight, we found
ourselves a bit stranded: The Tunel was shut down, and there didn't
seem to be an easy way to get a bus back across to sultanahmet. We
should have cabbed it, but instead decided to walk. It was a long walk
down some very dark streets (with some nervous moments), back to the
bridge, and on to the tramway (we caught the last one!) on the other
side back to Sultanahmet. It was not a walk women should take alone.
So, if you're staying in Sultanahmet, either be prepared to take a cab
ride home (and potentially be ripped off), or leave early while public
transportation is still feasable,



I just got back from Istanbul last night, and that's where I stayed.  I'll share some nice pictures soon!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 11:10
Congratz Mira, hope you got some good stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 14:06
The first thing I would want to see in Istanbul is anything connected to the Christian Byzantine period and then I would move on to the Ottoman year.
How are trains in Turkey?
I will never forget the train to Meteora in Greece. I thought it was going to rock off its tracks.
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 14:08

dont use them, use bus.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 14:31
eaglecap:


A backpacker's overview of Turkey

Nov 18 '02 (Updated Nov 18 '02)

Author's Product Rating
Product Rating: 5border=


Pros

Cheap to get around, extremely generous people, not too busy

Cons
Transportation system daunting at first

The Bottom Line
Turkey is extremely easy to backpack around, and it is a great alternative to a tour group. You see more, and get a taste of the real Turkey.

Full Review
In August 2002, my wife and I backpacked around Turkey for 9 days. During this time we visited Kusadasi/ Ephsesus, Pammukale, Goreme and Cappadocia, Ankara, and Istanbul. We were never part of a tour group, we backpacked and arranged all our own travel.

Getting there:

We visited Turkey after one week in Greece. We arrived by ferry from Samos. We started that day in Mikonos, and planned to go from Mikonos to Samos to Turkey. Getting information on the trip was nearly impossible from Greece - relations aren't terribly good. The 6am ferry arrived at 9:30am in Mikonos - it certainly didn't bode well for the rest of the journey. By the time we hit Samos we were 4.5 hours late for the ferry to Turkey which, fortunately, was waiting for us. After going through customs in Samos (complete and utter chaos), we packed into the ferry and headed to Turkey. Upon our arrival, we had to buy a very expensive visa ($60) (for Canadians - Americans don't need a visa), and we finally entered the country.

Currency
The most obvious thing that will strike you upon entering the country is "Good lord, are those MILLIONS?" The Turkish Lira currently holds the dubious distinction of being the least valuable currency in the world. As I write this, there are 1.7 million turkish lira to the US dollar. Welcome to conversion hell. They have not re-valued the currency since they are still struggling to control the 30% yearly inflation.

The best approximation I could come up with was to lop off 6 decimal places and divide by two. You will find that very often people will discuss prices in terms of number of millions.

The paper currency is very confusing, plan on spending your first spare time in Turkey studying it. Memorize the colours, don't bother trying to count the 0's. There are no commas. 10000000 and 10000000 look very similar when you're staring at a shopkeeper and he's looking impatient as he has a lineup of customers behind him. We were always worried about mistakenly paying with a 10 million note and getting change for a 1 million note, but that never happened. When we did hand over the wrong note, they would always correct us.

Health and Safety
We never felt threatened - even when we were completely lost in the slums of Ankara. We took the usual traveller precautions of not prominently displaying a wallet or expensive jewelery, and this was sufficient.

Turkey doesn't require immunizations, although it is recommended to be up to date on your MMR and Hep. A. Drinking the tap water is not recommended. Bottled water is everywhere and cheap (although make sure you dont get ripped off - walking 10 feet down the road can save you 50%). We chose to brush our teeth with bottled water, as well. (we never realized just how much water you use brushing your teeth!)

We couldn't decide whether or not to eat non boiled fruits and vegetables. Since my wife is vegetarian, this was a bit of a problem. In guidebook recommended restaurants, we did end up eating uncooked fruits and vegetables. My wife did end up getting slightly stomach sick. I maintain to this day however that if she had been drinking alchohol like I had been with every meal, she would not have gotten sick!

The People
Turks are some of the most generous people we have met in the world. Day after day we were astounded by how truly kind these people are. Every time we were lost, someone would immediately offer to walk us to where were trying to go - not just direct us - and there was no strings attached, no attempt to get us into a carpet shop. People seemed very happy to see us. Tourism is apparently way down since 9/11 - even a lot of the cruise boats aren't stopping in at Istanbul and Kusadasi.

It's also interesting to note that they were extremely kind to us despite not being part of a tour group, and despite being dressed like poor students. We felt their generosity was never motivated by a financial desire - it's just how they treat visitors to their country.

When we finally did buy a carpet in Istanbul, we had a great conversation for about an hour after we'd made the purchase with the owner of the shop. One of the points he really tried to make us understand about the decline in tourism was that tourists are scared of Muslim countries, but in reality, Turkey is a country of widespread religious freedom and acceptance. Attaturk did wonders for this country in terms of personal freedoms.

Don't be surprised by the stares or the lack of smiles you might see. We found the Turks a lot less outwardly friendly then Americans, but break through their shell, and you will be rewarded with a big wide smile. At first, we were certain that none of them liked us and were unfriendly, but realized that this is simply a difference in culture. I suspect that they see Americans and Canadians with their constant "Walmart" smiles as being "fake".

Smoking is everywhere. There is just no escape from it. It's a shame - the government strongly encourages tobacco use (they used to have a monopoly). You will not see women smoking in public, but beware the restroom

One of my favourite examples of this difference in culture happened in Cappadocia. We went on a sunset guided hike offered by the hotel. Although it was aimed at a group, we were the only ones who signed up - never mind, we got our own personal guide! For a 3 hour guided hike (with taxi ride there and back) we had to pay $10 US each. When it came to tipping, we had no idea what was appropriate - the normal 15 or 20% we would leave seemed almost insulting. So we left $5 for the two of us - a 25% tip. Our guide accepted this and thanked us, but didn't even smile. Had we just insulted him? Was it too much? Was it too little? We had no idea. He checked us out of the hotel the following day, and after we had settled up and were on our way, he came running back to us with a bottle of local wine in hand. He gave us the wine, and we finally got a big smile out of him. So I guess the tip wasn't so insulting after all!

Local Customs
Clothing: All of our guidebooks seemed to disagree on what was appropriate wear, so here are our observations. I was ok in shorts/tshirt almost everywhere we went in Turkey. Only in ultra-conservative Konya did I feel it was necessary to wear long pants (this is where combination/zipper pants came in very handy). In the mosques, I took off my shoes and "recombined" to wearing pants. Shorts are not ok inside a mosque. My wife wore skirts most of the time. There was absolutely no women in shorts except for some disrepectful tourists. Inside mosques, she wore a headscarf (the more touristy mosques handed these out at the entrance) and covered her shoulders. In large tourist sites (like Ephesus), women can probably get away with wearing shorts.

The Turks were effusively grateful for the respect we were showing. Such small things - putting on my pant legs, and her putting on her headscarf - earned us top tourist marks in their books. The smiles and approving nods were constant evidence of this. We were shocked when we saw some tourists taking off their headscarves as soon as they were past the officials at the entrance. This is their place of worship, the least we can do is respect their customs.

Tipping: We never quite figured it out here. At restaurants, we varied between our standard 15% if we liked it, and 0 if we didn't. Our guidebook said to round up. At Mosques, it's customary to make a small donation ($1) when you leave. We never tipped bus drivers (intercity or intracity), nor was it expected.

Getting Around in Turkey
We got around using public transportation. This worked well most of time, except when we wanted to get a bit funky in where we were going.

Inside the towns, privately-run dolmus (minibus) ferry locals and tourists around. The way these things work is that you look for a bus with your destination written on the front. They do not run on a set schedule, and will stop wherever, whenever to pick people up. Once you get on, clamber to the first available seat. (Our guidebook recommended trying to keep men and women apart, but that never seemed to matter on any of the buses we got on). To find out the price, some minibuses (in tourist areas) will have the prices printed on a sign attached somewhere at the front. Otherwise you just ask. Don't worry, you'll be able to afford it. Then, you pass your money to the driver (via the other passengers) and state your destination. You might be asked to pass on money for other people too. Then, somehow, the driver will make change while driving at crazy speeds and looking everywhere for any other passengers. On some dolmus, there will be another guy sitting up front who will help the driver collect fares.

The dolmus system seems pretty chaotic at first, but it works well if you are not in a huge rush to get somewhere for a certain time. And it's very, very cheap. I believe we always paid local price, no one tried to rip us off because of the cameras strapped around our necks.

The intercity bus system is also pretty intimidating at first, but once you figure it out, it's pretty manageable. There is no government run system here either - it's a mess of competing companies at the 'otogar' (bus terminal). The otogar is usually located somewhere outside the downtown area with frequent dolmus' running there. As soon as you step foot in the otogar, you will surely be approached by a "runner" from one of the companies. These runners will try to persuade you that their price is the best, their schedule is the best, etc. Depending on where you are, they can be pretty persistent. Denizli was by far the worst we experienced.

If you manage to shake off the runners, congratulations - we never could. They will lead you to their company, where you can find times, prices etc. Then, you have to go window to window if you want to try to find the best time or price. There is no central ticket office that knows all of the bus companies schedules and prices - you have to find them all out yourself, which can get pretty challenging when their English isn't the best. It took us a while to get used to this system.

Forget booking tickets for other cities in advance - even for different legs of the same trip. If you want to get from A to B with no stops in between and you're already at point A, you're in good shape. If you want to book for tomorrow to get from B to C, good luck. Anything complicated can get difficult without speaking Turkish. One thing we never tried was a travel agency, perhaps they could have bought tickets for us.

We tried to stick to the bus companies that were recommended to us (Nevtur, Pamukkale, ...). They were all extremely clean, comfortable, and safe. In fact, we never saw any buses that we wouldn't get on. We didn't take any night buses, for reasons of security, and also because we wanted to see the scenery.

Bus protocol is pretty strange. There is a 'steward' who walks up and down the aisle serving tea, coffee, coke, biscuits, wet towels, and spray-perfume. There are no restrooms on the bus, so they stop every few hours for usually 20 to 30 minutes. However, all of the rest stops we stopped at impeccably clean restrooms - you might have to pay a dime to get in, but these were no American freeway gas station affairs! The women's usually had a split of squat and normal toilets, by the way. The more reputable companies will give the drivers more breaks.

Another important thing no guide book mentioned about the bus: BE QUIET! And I mean, LIBRARY quiet! We got yelled at a few times for this. The Turks in general are a pretty loud and talkative people, but when they get on a bus, it's like they're mourning a funeral. Not a word is spoken - even for a 10 hour daylight bus trip. At one point we struck up a conversation with a Spanish guy on the row beside us. Big mistake. This was before we had figured out the "silence at all times" rule. One of the other passengers on the bus motioned to the steward, they exchanged some words in Turkish, and then the steward came over and told us to please be quiet! What a very odd experience. My wife and I at one point dug out our Travel Scrabble board, to the complete bewilderment of our fellow passengers. An Italian man on a bus we took had his cellphone ring. Half the bus glared at him immediately, and then he answered the call and started a conversation, the steward high-tailed it over to him and pointed frantically to the "no cell phone" sign at the front of the bus.

Be warned that the buses don't go anywhere that fast. They seem to be pegged to a speed limit of about 89 km/h, and as soon as they go over, the bus beeps menacingly at the driver. Everyone else on the road was doing a pretty decent clip however!

Arrival times were pretty exact, and so were departure times. I have some great video footage of all the buses in one otogar pulling out at precisely 9 am - about 40 of them all at once. It looked like some sort of strange dance. Even the Swiss would be jealous of how on-time these buses are.

The otogars in the larger city are very, very big. These are some of the largest bus stations in the world. We ran into very few foreigners, even though it was peak tourist season. I think almost everybody takes a guided tour - despite how easy it is (and how CHEAP) to travel this country unguided.

Every bus we travelled on was modern, had very comfortable seats, and the temperature was good - not American-shopping-mall cold, but a pleasent temperature, even when it was 110 outside.

Taxis:
We only took one taxi, in Ankara, and it was a good experience. The normal warnings about making sure the meter is on, it's set for daytime, etc. apply here though.

Trains:
The trains are very slow, from all accounts. We never took one. Buses are simply THE way to get around in Turkey.


Thanks for reading. Please feel free to email me any questions or leave a comment! You can check out my website for pictures of Turkey. You can find the website at
http://www.ianandwendy.com/OtherTrips/IcelandGreeceTurkey/ Turkey/TurkeyTitle.htm

Also, you can check out my other reviews of Turkey:
Kusadasi, Ephesus and Pamukkale
http://www.epinions.com/content_81311927940

You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike (Capadoccia)
http://www.epinions.com/content_81312190084

Istanbul, not Constantinople
http://www.epinions.com/content_81310944900

and

It might be the capital, but your time is better spent elsewhere (Ankara)
http://www.epinions.com/content_81312648836



Recommended
Yes

Best Suited For: Friends
Best Time to Travel Here: Anytime
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Digenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 15:20
Turkish Tourist Organisation ,or thread for Maps and Historical pics???
Anyway,maybe next month i ll be in Constantinoupolis.
I ll try check these!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 22:41
Originally posted by Digenis


Anyway,maybe next month i ll be in Constantinoupolis.
I ll try check these!


I hope you have a time machine to visit constantinople, I'd like to see it too.


"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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