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Forum LockedIs Latin America Western?

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Poll Question: Is Latin America Western?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
28 [51.85%]
0 [0.00%]
4 [7.41%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [1.85%]
0 [0.00%]
16 [29.63%]
5 [9.26%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 18:09
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Originally posted by hugoestr hugoestr wrote:

Yes, but the rest of the West don't agree
 
Well I do.  The totality of Latin America is far more impacted by:  five centuries of European imigration, the influence of Christianity, and (whether they like it or not) the impact of North America, than it is anything indigenous.
 
The Western Hemisphere is part of the West.
 
 
 
 
And I also agree, it is Western.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 19:15
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Curious. In southern South America, where I live, we still remember when we received the "poor" of Europe by the million. Well, I guess they want to forget us now.
 

Fortunatelly for us, our continent today is a lot less poor than in the 40s, we have a better standard of living than in the 70s and we are quite sure in some decades we will be fine.

 

Latin Americans (Not that I share it, but is what people say) see the U.S. like an imperialistic and agresive country, and Europe like a place in decline.

 

Pinguin

 

 


My parents dont see the US as Imperialistic. But then again they are enjoying the stay in the US and have been doing so for a while. Maybe they would think differently if they still lived in Peru
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 19:29
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon Ponce de Leon wrote:


My parents dont see the US as Imperialistic. But then again they are enjoying the stay in the US and have been doing so for a while. Maybe they would think differently if they still lived in Peru
 
As long as folks living in America are satisfied materially, that is OK for them(not necessarily America, that goes for all the mankind)...Human nature is like that...If you are hungry, you want food, if you get the food, you want good food, if you get good food, you look at how you burp..That cycle doesn't have an end.


Edited by Kapikulu - 26-Mar-2007 at 19:30
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we couldn't find neither;
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 19:33
Except the common point in religion and languages, I don't think that Latin America is similar to Western World...People's mentalities, lifestyles is different from what is called the "Western"...
We gave up your happiness
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 19:48
Originally posted by Kapikulu Kapikulu wrote:

Except the common point in religion and languages, I don't think that Latin America is similar to Western World...People's mentalities, lifestyles is different from what is called the "Western"...
 
How so?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 21:27

To which part of the West?

Everybody knows that the mentality in Northern Europe is different from Southern Europe and both are different again from Eastern Europe. The mentality of the U.S. and Canada are traced directly to Northern Europe.
 
The point is how really different is the mentality of Latin America with respect to Southern Europe. How different are Sicilians or Andalucians from Latinos? I don't think that much. Even Vitto Corleone looks familiar Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 04:23
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Curious. In southern South America, where I live, we still remember when we received the "poor" of Europe by the million. Well, I guess they want to forget us now.
 
Fortunatelly for us, our continent today is a lot less poor than in the 40s, we have a better standard of living than in the 70s and we are quite sure in some decades we will be fine.
 
Latin Americans (Not that I share it, but is what people say) see the U.S. like an imperialistic and agresive country, and Europe like a place in decline.
 
Pinguin
 
 


Well pinguin,how can one of the quicklyest developing continents,that has recovered from absolute destruction in the WW2 for half a century and continue to develop quickly be declining?What is Europe declining from,when it was destroyed only 60 years ago?Latin America didn't suffer half of what Europe did and yet we became wealthier than you so quickly.The western world is not simply because you come from the west or talk western language.Western means democratic,capitalistic and CIVILIZED.You are only civilized and not every country.Maybe only Chilie,Argentina and Brazil.Until there are countries like Cuba and Venezuela in sounth America you will never be partof the wester world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 11:35
Originally posted by Jagiello Jagiello wrote:


Well pinguin,how can one of the quicklyest developing continents,that has recovered from absolute destruction in the WW2 for half a century and continue to develop quickly be declining?
 
Europe of the 19th century had the monopoly of science, tech, creativity. Europe had a booming population that made a good percentage of mankind. Europe dominated most of the lands of the world.
What's Europe today but a region more between Europe, North America and East Asia? How long will European population exist if people don't want to have kids?
 
Originally posted by Jagiello Jagiello wrote:

What is Europe declining from,when it was destroyed only 60 years ago?Latin America didn't suffer half of what Europe did and yet we became wealthier than you so quickly.The western world is not simply because you come from the west or talk western language.Western means democratic,capitalistic and CIVILIZED.
 
Well, what more incivilized than a continent that killed 70 million people in wars during the 20th century? That continent is called EUROPE, and they behaved like Barbarians.
 
Originally posted by Jagiello Jagiello wrote:

You are only civilized and not every country.Maybe only Chilie,Argentina and Brazil.Until there are countries like Cuba and Venezuela in sounth America you will never be partof the wester world.
 
You don't have idea what you are talking about, but speaking by ignorance of a land you don't know, except by politically motivated TV reports.
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 13:29
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

To which part of the West?

Everybody knows that the mentality in Northern Europe is different from Southern Europe and both are different again from Eastern Europe. The mentality of the U.S. and Canada are traced directly to Northern Europe.
 
The point is how really different is the mentality of Latin America with respect to Southern Europe. How different are Sicilians or Andalucians from Latinos? I don't think that much. Even Vitto Corleone looks familiar Wink
 
Pinguin
 
Heck a lot of people confuse me for Latino, and I am southern European/Mediterranean
 
In my opinion it is Western, it is a hybrid of two cultures, however, the Spanish/Portugese factors domminate in a lot of ways, music, language, culture, Simon Bolivar didn't think his treatsies for independence from Spain up himself he got them from the French Revoultionary surge of ideas that made their way into Latin America.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 03:50
Only parts of Latin America are Western. I would hardly call Brazils "favelas" Western..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 08:51

What makes you to make such a distinction? Because Brazilian favelas and jails are packed of poor people?

During most of its history, there have been people living in those conditions in the West. Just remember the way people lived in London and other british cities during the Industrial Revolution. Otherwise, you wouldn't have books like "Oliver Twist" and a tale like "A Christmas Carol".

In Latin America, in average, 40% of people is poor. But things are improved quite a lot since half a century ago. In countries like my own, where it use to exist lots of favelas as well (places we called "champignon cities", because they appeared overnight), today they are almost gone.
 
However, during all those times, the poorest people of the favelas followed Roman Catholicism, Spoke Spanish (or Portuguese) and followed the customs and traditions inherit from the West.
 
Yes, people seem to believe the West is rich, and that's its mark. However, in many places of the United States you can find places as poor as third world, like the guettos and forgotten cities in the countryside. The same happens in Canada. And, judging for what we see on TV, it seems large parts of Eastern Europe and even certain areas of London are third world as well.
 
So, what's the difference?
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 10:58
 Pinguin:"You don't have idea what you are talking about, but speaking by ignorance of a land you don't know, except by politically motivated TV reports."
"And, judging for what we see on TV, it seems large parts of Eastern Europe and even certain areas of London are third world as well. "
 
LOL European TV reports are politically motivated and youre's are not?Obviously TOU have got absolutely no idea of Europe,as you've allready shown in other topics.If there are any poor countries in Eastern Europe it is because of 40 years communism or as we call it - "slavery". Exactly the same thing that some countries in Latin America not only still have(Cuba) but even are building at the moment (Venezuella).I don't know which country you're from but here (in Poland) we have pretty objective and independant TV stations and free media so don't tell me our or any other european and democratic country has TV propaganda-like in some Latin Countries.


Edited by Jagiello - 01-Apr-2007 at 11:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 11:02
Yes, that's a pitty.
For what I recall, Spain used to be poorer than many regions of Latin America during the earliest part of the 20th century as well.
I believe poverty does not make or take away the culture of people. Poverty is an problem that has to be solve with economics and will. Culture is the heritage of any people, stating from the language we speak and the ancestors we had.
 
Pinguin
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 12:06
Latin America is like Russia, in that it is part-time western, depending on the ideology of the observer, and the context in question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Carkner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 12:11
Originally posted by Cywr Cywr wrote:

Latin America is like Russia, in that it is part-time western, depending on the ideology of the observer, and the context in question.


A worthy observation Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 13:45
And 100% true.
Latin America is very European inevitably, but moreso continetal than Anglo-Saxon. But the anglophone world has otherised it heavily, thus this schitzophrenic dual exisitence.
From the South Americans i met and knew at the international school i attended, i can't say there was much that set them apart from the various other generic Euopean kids aside from odd quirkies here and there, they fitted in perfectly, sometimes more so than the N. Americans.
More recently i discovered that a guy i figured was plain British was actualy Argintenian, it took a heated political discussion over the Falklands to bring that minor detail up.

I will say that a noticable distinction between L.A. countries and European ones is that they are more noticably internaly diverse, in this sense, N & S America have a lot in common with each other. Many people are happy to imagine a very African carnival in Rio as the stereotyped image of Brazil, but yet there are rural towns in parts of South Eestern Brazil where the people speak German most of the time, as indicative of the town's dominant immigrant character. Its very much like the US in terms of its history that way.

If you are going to make a simplistic dichiotomy, then it makes more sense IMHO to lump the US with latin America, than it does to lump it with Europe at the exclusion of Latin America.


Edited by Cywr - 03-Apr-2007 at 13:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 15:20
Well, I would think that Latin America is quite close to Iberia, and a little to Italy. The divides in Europe are the Pyrenees and in the Americas is the River Grande. But there is a divide between the Iberian and the Germanic mentality, of course there is.
 
Now, for "racial diversity", certain countries of Europe, like France today for example, are a lot more diverse that whole regions of Latin America, believe it or not.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 15:37
I think you could divide 'Germanic' up as well, maybe Central European Germanic, Scandinavian, Flemish/Dutch, Anglo-saxon, and then some. The Germans are as different from the Englis has they are from the Spanish easily, save maybe their love for beer and ssuages, but by those standards many Iberians have become partialy Germancised :p
Meh.

As for diversity, i wasn't quite thinking of that, For sure London and Paris probably contain greater diversity than anywhere in the Americas save for a handfull of cities. I was thinking of the diversity created by a different form of migration.
European migration has been defined lagely my rural to urban migration, Italians to English cities in the 1700s, and Greeks to Dutch cities in the 1900s and so on. As such you get a more melting pot diversity that remains somewhat in the cities.

In the Americas you effectivly had rural to rural migration, just over an ocean, and often distinctive patterns formed from that, in parts of Northern central US the popluation is heavily of Finnish decent for whatever reasons (maybe they like the weather), in parts of Luisiana they still speak a varient of French, and so on, and i'm taking rural areas here.
Same thing you'll find in many S. American countries. So within a country you get the kind of internal regional diversity that, to find in any European country, you'd either have to travel from one extreme to another, or more than likely, cross borders.
Its down to the very way in which the countries for Americas developed and were altered beyond recognition by mass migration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 17:08
Well, there is something in common between Latin America and the U.S. which is the idea we are a new land. A continent that was build from zero, and where many people converged. A region of pioneers.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emilia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2007 at 18:02
Hi!  I'm Emilia, the girl who wrote the article "Is Latin America Western?"  Thank you first of all for posting it on this forum.  It's been some time since I first wrote it, but seeing it's still being discussed, I would just like to add a few points to it.
 
First, I admit that Indian elements do remain in Latin America.  However, the same can be said about North America.  For example, in my country, Canada, the Far North is still inhabited mainly by Indians and Inuit, who have been influenced by Western culture but still retain their own languages and customs to some degree.  So if Latin America should be called "Indian" because some Native groups keep their own traditions, so should Canada and the United States.
 
Second, I wrote another essay some time later called "Race Mixing and Westernization in Latin America and the Philippines."  In it I explained how and why Latin America (excluding Brazil) is a "cultural extension" of Spain but the Philippines is not, despite having been under Spanish rule for three centuries.  I said that if Latin America were really "Indian," it would be in a similar position as the Philippines, where yes, the population was influenced by Spain but still retained the bulk of its native traditions.  For example, almost all Latin American mestizos speak Spanish as their native language.  On the other hand, most Filipinos (the majority of whom do not have Spanish or European ancestry) still speak Tagalog or another indigenous language, not Spanish, as their mother tongue.
 
Third, it strikes me that some people do not consider Latin America "Western" because they think of the Western culture as that of Northern Europe and its cultural offshoots like the United States.  For example, a Russian friend of mine said that unlike in the West, most Russians lived with their parents until marriage.  I responded that that may be true in Anglo-Saxon countries like Britain and the States but not in Italy or Spain.  So because Latin America's culture is largely based on that of Spain, some people do not see it as Western because they think of the West as Northern European, in particular as Anglo-Saxon.
 
Anyway, that's all I wanted to add.
Emilia
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