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Forum LockedIran tests "new under water missile"

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    Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 19:16

Apparently fired from radar dodging fast boats and capable of taking out big fish. Tested two days earlier was a surface to surface missile, undetectible by radar and deploys multiple war heads.

It seems that Iran is letting it be known that impudent "pre-emption" will not go unpunished.

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April 2, 2006, 9:41PM
Iran Calls Test of New Missile Successful

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI Associated Press Writer
© 2006 The Associated Press

TEHRAN, Iran — Iran conducted its second major test of a new missile within days on Sunday, firing a high-speed torpedo it said no submarine or warship can escape at a time of increased tensions with the U.S. over its nuclear program.

The tests came during war games that Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards have been holding in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea since Friday.

< marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="http://dart.chron.com/.ng/site=thc&affiliate=hc&size=300x250&rmedia=yes&vert=news&stpg=yes&posi=island1" Border=0 width=300 scrolling=no height=250 minmax_bound="true" BORDERCOLOR="#000000"> < ="1.1" SRC="http://dart.chron.com/js.ng/s.richmedia=yes&site=thc&affiliate=hc&size=300x250&rmedia=yes&vert=news&stpg=yes&posi=island1">

On the maneuvers' first day, Iran said it successfully tested the Fajr-3 missile, which can avoid radar and hit several targets simultaneously using multiple warheads.

More: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3765940.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 19:37
they claimed it's fastest one!?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 19:45
Cool weapon, but first Iran has to field formidable navy. And their subs, which are lacking in modern technology and would be all too easily detected by navies like that of the US or UK. Though, this would pose a big threat to Israel's navy. The whole notion of "radar-dodging" fast boats seems ridiculous in a way. Makes it sound as if they can just drive right up to a fleet and fire off some missiles, which isn't too believable. ALot of this sounds like a big PR stunt for a weapon that won't be easy to employ.

If you've ever read anything about US and UK naval tactics and how the fleets travel and are protected, this doesn't seem like too big of a threat. Perhaps to a ship out on it's own, but not to anything like a carrier group.


I can also see the CIA, MI6, and Mossad alll racing to see who can steal the technology first.


Edited by Illuminati
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 19:54

iran also recently tested the Fajr 3 missile, which cannot be detected by radar

and iran doesnt need a navy, all it has to do is be able to sink the other guys navy, thats it.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:05
Originally posted by Illuminati Illuminati wrote:


Cool weapon, but first Iran has to field formidable navy.


Not necessarily ... the thing could be shot off a relatively small craft, I would imagine. The Russian Shkval, which it sounds very similar to, can be fired off small craft, in principle you could have something like a Q-ship (but even smaller - fishing craft perhaps).

Some AFP pics purported to be of the test:





For comparison, the Shkval:



Quote I'm also curious as to how these torpedoes are undetectable by radar.


Sonar (it's underwater). Probably it is not undetectable but rather untrackable, that is without a linear trajectory.

Edited by edgewaters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:07

the military also said that it will be testing more weapons soon. lets see what the power of iranian military really is.

no country in the world knows exactly what irans capabilities are, even the CIA and mossad.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:32
Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

iran also recently tested the Fajr 3 missile, which cannot be detected by radar

and iran doesnt need a navy, all it has to do is be able to sink the other guys navy, thats it.



yes my good man, but the other person's navy won't always be sitting right off of your coast.

How is Iran going to get these fast boats out to see and in range of a carrier group or naval task force that is traveling wtih numerous ships, submarines, helicopters, and possibly even fighter jets?

IF there was a naval batle fought right off the coast of Iran, then I could see these new we missiles having a big impact. But, knowing that Iran has this kind fo technology, enemy navies won't engage in battle close to a place where these fast boats could be deployed from. They'll just use air power and wait for the Iranian navy to move further away from shore. Perhaps Iran will be outfitting their ships with the ability to launch these fast boats? That would be a logical move.

It's a cool weapon, but nothing that's going to even the playing field when it comes to naval warfare. Then you also have to recongize that if Iran does attack the US navy, whether or not it's in retaliation for bombings, the US navy will make quick work of the Iranian navy. Remember, Iran's ships don't have air-cover if they aren't close to Iran.


Edited by Illuminati
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:37
but the point is that iran isnt even relying on its navy for anything. LOL, the iranian navy and airforce is crap, that is why the government is putting its money into missile programs.
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:48
Originally posted by Illuminati Illuminati wrote:

yes my good man, but the other person's navy won't always be sitting right off of your coast.


True, Iran will not be able to seek out the US Navy far from its shores or anything.

Quote How is Iran going to get these fast boats out to see and in range of a carrier group or naval task force that is traveling wtih numerous ships, submarines, helicopters, and possibly even fighter jets?


Well that part's easy. What will be more difficult is for the US fleet to determine whether any of the regular traffic in the area is armed with the things.

Quote It's a cool weapon, but nothing that's going to even the playing field when it comes to naval warfare. Then you also ahe to recongize that if Iran does attack the US navy, whether or not it's in retaliation for bombings, teh US navy will make quick work of the Iranian navy. Remember, Iran's ships don't have air-cover if they aren't close to Iran.


I do not imagine this would impact things in a militarily signifigant manner, it is more a question of political impact. It's possible they could sink a few destroyers or other expensive, high-tech craft. It wouldn't signifigantly impact US fighting ability, but it would have strong political repercussions at home. There is also the potential that it could make littoral operations unfeasible unless the US attacks all civilian traffic in the area, again, politically expensive (and destined to have international repercussions for the US).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:51
Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

the military also said that it will be testing more weapons soon. lets see what the power of iranian military really is.

no country in the world knows exactly what irans capabilities are, even the CIA and mossad.

Whatever the capabilities of Iranian forces are, they are less than they need to be.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:55

Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

but the point is that iran isnt even relying on its navy for anything. LOL, the iranian navy and airforce is crap, that is why the government is putting its money into missile programs.

So missiles are the answer, and no one else puts money into their missiles?

You have already admitted that most of the military is crap.  These new "wonder weapons" are toilet paper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 21:01

edgewaters:

George II and the boys have already expended all our political capital.  In the event of the sinking of "a few destroyers," I suspect that political repercussions would be among the last considerations in regard to retaliation.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 21:10
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

but the point is that iran isnt even relying on its navy for anything. LOL, the iranian navy and airforce is crap, that is why the government is putting its money into missile programs.

So missiles are the answer, and no one else puts money into their missiles?

You have already admitted that most of the military is crap.  These new "wonder weapons" are toilet paper.

you dont get it do you. iran has no hopes of building up its navy or airforce without the help of the west. since iran is isolated, missiles are irans best friend. easy to mass produce, and cheaper than building a navy or airforce.

with the missiles iran has, it can already target every US base in the region. it doesnt need planes for that.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 21:15

Apparently the Russian Shkval that this resembles at least in method is not guided, nor steerable.  But at such high speeds the target probably won't move much.  I don't really think this is much of a threat to the USN.  For purposes of discussion, let's say this has performance characteristics similar to the Shkval, since there isn't any information about this system's performance yet.  The Shkval has a range of 6850 meters and a speed of 100 mps.  Every American carrier is surrounded by warships so the chances of any Iranian vessel getting to within 6850 meters of an American carrier are very small.  Let's say it does, it would take the Shkval over a minute to reach the carrier fired from maximum range, despite it's great speed, perhaps giving an American carrier time to take evasive action or at least brace for impact.

I don't think this is military that significant, but it's not really meant to be.  It's Iran's way of saying "we won't be another Iraq."



Edited by Genghis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 21:40
yes exactly, they dont expect to win. they just want to make it so costly for the USA so that they wont attack in the first place.
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 22:26
Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Apparently the Russian Shkval that this resembles at least in method is not guided, nor steerable.  But at such high speeds the target probably won't move much.  I don't really think this is much of a threat to the USN.  For purposes of discussion, let's say this has performance characteristics similar to the Shkval, since there isn't any information about this system's performance yet.  The Shkval has a range of 6850 meters and a speed of 100 mps.  Every American carrier is surrounded by warships so the chances of any Iranian vessel getting to within 6850 meters of an American carrier are very small.  Let's say it does, it would take the Shkval over a minute to reach the carrier fired from maximum range, despite it's great speed, perhaps giving an American carrier time to take evasive action or at least brace for impact.


I don't think this is military that significant, but it's not really meant to be.  It's Iran's way of saying "we won't be another Iraq."



Shkval I, yeah. There's a Shkval II that is reported to be guided and very long-range. Nevertheless, these are not the kind of weapons you'd use against a carrier ... the Shkval is intended for use against submarines and surface crafts like destroyers. For things like carriers, the Russian arsenal is believed to rely on the Moskit/Sunburn.

I imagine the Iranian weapon is Russian technology, since the Russians have been heavily involved in Iran's defence industries since 2001. The big question is whether it is a variant of the Shkval I or II, and how those weapons actually perform. And how long before Iran develops a Moskit-derivative weapon.

Russia has no problems selling anti-naval weaponry to anybody ... they need the exports and they really don't have to worry about it ever coming back to haunt them, since they're not going to be launching naval operations against anyone anytime soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 22:44

iran has bought hundreds if not thousands of sunburn missiles from russia and china.

i am sure they are already working on reverse engineering them, and making their own.

 

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 23:01
Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

iran has bought hundreds if not thousands of sunburn missiles from russia and china.

i am sure they are already working on reverse engineering them, and making their own.

 

 

China doesn't have the capability to manufacture Sunburns, they buy theirs from Russia, so I doubt Iran will be able to either.

I strongly doubt Iran possesses "thousands" of Moskits. China only has a tiny supply for two Sovremennyy destroyers. Iran is rumoured to possess a grand total of 8 Moskits purchased from the Ukraine. The problem with Moskits in general is that they're not easy to deploy, you need a substantial platform for launch. Iran isn't going to get anywhere near a carrier group (a Shkval type weapon is signifigant for Iran, because it's basically just a rocket - it's pretty easy to deploy). Soviet doctrine had them as a primarily defensive weapon for naval groups, for offensive use they were developing platforms like the Lun ekranoplane, which could intercept at supersonic speeds. For a country like Iran, the only Moskit that would be of any use against US Navy would be the KH-4 air-to-surface variant, which is still on the drawing boards and in any case only intended for use by Su-33's.



Edited by edgewaters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 23:03
Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

but the point is that iran isnt even relying on its navy for anything. LOL, the iranian navy and airforce is crap, that is why the government is putting its money into missile programs.

So missiles are the answer, and no one else puts money into their missiles?

You have already admitted that most of the military is crap.  These new "wonder weapons" are toilet paper.

you dont get it do you. iran has no hopes of building up its navy or airforce without the help of the west. since iran is isolated, missiles are irans best friend. easy to mass produce, and cheaper than building a navy or airforce.

with the missiles iran has, it can already target every US base in the region. it doesnt need planes for that.

No, prsn.  You are the one not getting it.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 23:32

lol, pikeshot, let me give you the soviet example than:

the soviets knew that their navy would never be as strong as the US navy. so instead of wasting their time and money on building huge ships and carriers and submarines, they instead started building missiles like the sunburn, which paid off.

do you understand now?

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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