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    Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 16:35
I live on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, and when the story broke about the deaths of two British soldiers in Antrim, followed a day later by the death of a PSNI police officer, by dissident Republicans (the 'Real' and 'Continuity' IRA), there was an immediate outpouring of anger by everybody, regardless of religious or political persuasion. After years and years of fighting nobody wants to see this mindlessness seeping back into the North, and the sheer idiocy of the IRA has really been highlighted.

In a time of quite severe economic problems, these people have decided to try to undo years of hard work and dedication from politicians and communities alike to make Northen Ireland a progressive and inclusive place, in a cynical attempt to recruit new members as avaiable jobs decrease. Not only have all the political parties in the North, including Sinn Fein condemned the murders, but this time there is a real determination not to allow these outdated, terrorist rednecks to sabotage our Island for their own means and to the detriment of future generations. The implications are quite severe, should their actions be allowed to generate and resurface old divides, as dissident Loyalist groups could feel compelled to retaliate, and all other saboteurs in whatever shape they take could begin trying to stir up community divides in places that were seeing real progress.

This weekend gone by has been a cynical attempt to undermine the political power-sharing process in the North, and I truly hope it will fail, and that these thugs are rooted out so that they can never hold decent people at ransom again.

The deaths of the two soldiers is an example of the kind of mindsets (and people) that Northern Ireland has been trying to purge for 40+ years. The two soldiers were off duty, unarmed, and waiting to collect a pizza as a final meal before they headed out on a tour to Afghanistan. They were gunned down, then shot tens of times as they lay on the ground. The two pizza delivery men were also seriously injured. Gone are the times of 'legitimate targets', these two men could not even defend themselves as soldiers, instead they were executed with the true redneck grace of the new terrorist IRA breed.


The media feeds are untidy, unfortunately.




BREAKING NEWS

4:09pm UK, Tuesday March 10, 2009

A dissident republican group called the Continuity IRA have said they were behind the the murder of police constable Stephen Carroll in Northern Ireland.  

Stephen Paul Carroll

Stephen Carroll had served in the police for over 20 years

In a coded message, they said the shooting in Craigavon was carried out by their north Armagh battalion.

The message said: "As long as there is British involvement in Ireland, these attacks will continue."

The killing followed the murder of British soldiers Mark Quinsey, 23, and Patrick Azimkar, 21, outside the Massareene Barracks in Antrim on Saturday.

Mr Carroll, 48, was shot dead after he and a colleague answered a woman's call for help in the predominantly Catholic Lismore Manor area.

Police say they are looking for a man in a light coloured top who was spotted running from the scene afterwards.

Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) chief constable Sir Hugh Orde described the killers as "criminal psychopaths".

He vowed: "We will pursue those responsible to the ends of the earth."

Mr Carroll, from Banbridge, County Down, was reportedly sitting in his car when he was shot in the head at close range.

Chief Superintendent Alan Todd said he had given 23 years of service to the community as a police officer.

"We have this morning colleagues without a workmate, a wife without a husband, a son without a father and grandchildren without their grandfather," he said.

"It is a desperate loss. My question to the people who perpetrated this is 'What have they got to offer?'"

Northern Ireland's First Minister Peter Robinson and his deputy Martin McGuinness postponed a planned visit to Washington when informed of Mr Carroll's death.

The pair were about to catch a flight to the US from London but decided to return to Belfast instead to meet security chiefs.

Mr Robinson said: "I unreservedly condemn this evil deed and offer my sincere sympathy to the officer's family circle."

Armed police officers at the scene in Craigavon, Northern Ireland

Police are stepping up security

Northern Ireland Secretary Shaun Woodward condemned the murder as the work of "evil criminals" intent on destroying the peace.

He told Sky News: "These very wicked people may have the power to kill but they do not have the power to wreck the peace process."

Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who visited Ireland on Monday, insisted: "There will be no return to the old days."

The PSNI has been warning of a heightened threat from dissident gunmen for some time.

Sappers Cengiz Azimkar and Mark Quinsey

Sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey

Meanwhile, it is hoped a getaway car used by the Real IRA killers of the two soldiers on Saturday will provide vital clues.

The green Vauxhall Cavalier was found seven miles from the Massereene Barracks. Attempts to set it alight had failed.

Detectives are also combing CCTV footage of the shooting in which four other people were wounded, one of them seriously.

The attackers opened fire as the soldiers went to collect delivery pizzas outside the front gate of the base.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Northern-Ireland-Police-Officer-Shot-Dead-In-Craigavon-Named-As-Stephen-Paul-Carroll/Article/200903215238108?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15238108_Northern_Ireland%3A_Police_Officer_Shot_Dead_In_Craigavon_Named_As_Stephen_Paul_Carroll



Real IRA claims responsibility for attack

watch listen Sunday, 8 March 2009

The Real IRA has claimed responsibility for last night's attack in which two British soldiers were shot dead in Co Antrim.

It is understood the dissident republican group made a phone call to a journalist in the Sunday Tribune newspaper and used a recognised codename.

The two soldiers were shot dead and four other people seriously injured during the attack on a British Army base in Antrim town.

Advertisement

The shooting occurred shortly before 10pm as pizzas from a local business were being delivered.

During two long bursts of gunfire, the two soldiers in their 20s were shot dead and four people, including two civilians, were seriously injured.

The PSNI has confirmed that two of the men injured were the employees of a pizza delivery company.

One man has been named locally as 19-year-old Anthony Watson. His condition has been described as serious. The condition of the second man, a 32-year-old Polish national is said to be critical.

The other two injured men were British soldiers at the base.

The gunmen made off as a fleet of ambulances rushed to the scene.

Chief Superintendent Derek Williamson said: 'I have no doubt in my mind this was an attempt at mass murder.

'Last night two very young men lost their lives in a very callous and a very ruthless attack by terrorists who have no thought and had no thought last night for anyone who was in the vicinity.

'It's clear from what we know at this stage that the terrorists not only wanted to kill soldiers who were there last night, but also tried to kill those two pizza delivery men.Massereene

'The gunmen, having fired an initial volley of shots, moved forward when people were on the ground and fired additional shots at those people on the ground.'

Police are understood to be examining a car found abandoned in the nearby town of Randalstown. Officers are trying to establish whether the vehicle was used in the shooting.

The Irish and British governments have affirmed their commitment that the will of the people will be upheld in Northern Ireland.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen condemned the attack and conveyed by phone a message of sympathy over the deaths to the British Prime Minister.

Gordon Brown described the attack as 'evil' and said 'no murderer' would derail the peace process.

PSNI Chief Constable Hugh Orde insisted there were no plans to increase the number of special forces in Northern Ireland.

Meanwhile, hundreds of people walked silently to the edge of the police cordon earlier today and stood together amid the floral tributes.

Local priest Father Tony Devlin said 'We don't want to go back to this. Nobody wants to go back to this in any way at all. We don't want those years of the past, they were horrible years for everyone'.

Massereene Barracks is the Northern Ireland headquarters of the British Army's engineering division.

Since the Good Friday Agreement, the number of soldiers there has been reduced and the base is due to be closed next year.

Dissident republican groups carried out gun attacks on police officers in Derry and Dungannon last year and they have repeatedly said they want to kill PSNI members.

It is 12 years since Lance Bombadier Stephen Restorick was shot in the back while manning a British Army patrol in Beesbrook, Co Armagh.

Until last night, he was the last British soldier killed in Northern Ireland.

Political condemnation

There has been widespread condemnation of the killings.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown (below) insisted that the killings would not derail the peace process.Gordon Brown

'I can assure you that we will bring these people to justice,' Mr Brown vowed in his first comments on the shootings.

'No murderer will be able to derail a peace process that has the support of the vast majority of the people of Northern Ireland and we will step up our efforts to make the peace process one that lasts and endures.'

The Taoiseach Brian Cowen said violence had been utterly rejected by the people of this island and a tiny evil group could not undermine the will of the people to live in peace together.

A spokesperson for the US State Department called on all parties in the North to unequivocally reject what he called such senseless acts of violence, whose intention was to destroy the peace that so many had worked hard to achieve.

Northern Secretary Shaun Woodward described the shooting as an 'act of criminal barbarism'.

Northern Ireland's First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness were due to travel tomorrow to the US but have postponed their visit.

The DUP leader said the shootings were a 'terrible reminder of the events of the past'.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0308/antrim.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 18:12
I was going to post something about this earlier but didn't have the energy. These barbarians have sucked all the enthusiasm out of me.

The worst thing is, go in to most rural pubs and a fair number of them would be laughing and joking about this. Makes me sick.
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 22:54
"Terrorism" is not a monopoly of the Islamic world after all.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:01
Sad they are at it again or at least I have not heard as much lately so I thought this was over. I decided not to go to Belfast when I was in Ireland because of one bombing, one bar shooting and the racist shooting of a black cabbie. What is the agenda of these extremist? Is it still the same? With the Republic of Ireland becoming part of the EU I thought this would be over. Dolphin what is going on?
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:06
Excuse my ignorance, but what is the whole deal with Northern Ireland. I know, I should check wikipedia first, but I think the lads can explain better (more objective I mean), since wikipedia is prone to propaganda.
Do the people of Northern Ireland want union with Ireland or not?
What is Irish? How do you define Irish, since the irish language is almost dead, and irish people speak english instead? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:10
 


Edited by Paul - 10-Mar-2009 at 23:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:11
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Sad they are at it again
 
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

With the Republic of Ireland becoming part of the EU I thought this would be over.
 
Nice to see the American media is keeping the public so well informed.
 
The question I always ask Americans is why do the Americans make such a fuss about Britain occupying a mere six counties but never bother about the four occupied by France and two by Holland.
 
Perhaps you can enlighten me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:13
Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

"Terrorism" is not a monopoly of the Islamic world after all.....


They have never had a monopoly on terror but currently the majority of terror attacks are Islamic but there are also other crazy groups like the Tamil Tigers, Buddhist. Communist in Nepal are also very extreme and tend to blow things up. I had a friend who stayed in Nepal and he told me that the extreme communist were a real threat there but that was in 2005. I almost went to teach English there but decided not to

I cannot stand these savages bringing Ireland back down and they should be hunted down. People no matter their beliefs can choose to do evil so I blame it on the human condition and no particular religion has a monopoly on terror. I hope peace comes to Ireland fast, afterall, I am part Irish.
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:19
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Sad they are at it again

 

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

With the Republic of Ireland becoming part of the EU I thought this would be over.

 

Nice to see the American media is keeping the public so well informed.

 

The question I always ask Americans is why do the Americans make such a fuss about Britain occupying a mere six counties but never bother about the four occupied by France and two by Holland.

 

Perhaps you can enlighten me.


I am not aware of this so please enlighten me. I only hate to see people killed by such evil and cowardly methods. You are right I have not heard anything about this so I was caught off guard. I will have to tune into Savage Nation and see if Mike is saying anything about this.

http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:37
@eaglecap and xristar.

I'll try to explain some of the situation to the best of my knowledge. I may not be objective, as I despise these extremists, and the history of this goes back hundreds of years, but the more recent situation is clear cut. Wiki would be a more in depth source than me, there really is too much to it.

The IRA, or Irish Republican Army has been around since the Irish War of independence between 1919 and 1921. This army was formed to represent those who disagreed with the Anglo-Irish treaty which agreed the cessation of violence and the beginnings of some form of power-sharing between the British rulers and the Irish people. They had one true cause, and that was the unification of the island of Ireland. This 'true' IRA lasted until 1969, when the IRA split and became numerous splinter groups who vowed to continue the armed fight for independence.

Then came 'The Troubles'... Then came ceasefire. Violence. Ceasefire.

Skip to 1998, when the Good Friday agreement was signed, which allowed...

The Agreement's main provisions included the:

  • principle that any change to the constitutional status of Northern Ireland could only follow a majority vote of its citizens;
  • commitment by all parties to use "exclusively peaceful and democratic means";
  • establishment of a Northern Ireland Assembly with devolved legislative powers;
  • cross-community principle for any major decision taken by the Assembly;
  • establishment of a 'power-sharingNorthern Ireland Executive, using the d'Hondt method to allocate Ministries proportionally to the main parties;
  • establishment of a North-South Ministerial Council and North-South Implementation Bodies to bring about cross-border cooperation in policy and programmes on a number of issues;
  • establishment of a British-Irish Inter-governmental Conference (replacing the former Anglo-Irish Inter-governmental Conference, established by theAnglo-Irish Agreement[3]), which gave a consultative role to the Republic of Ireland concerning matters not devolved.
  • establishment of a British-Irish Council, comprising representatives from the governments of Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and theIsle of Man;
  • conditional early release within two years of paramilitary prisoners belonging to organisations observing a ceasefire.
  • establishment of the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission.
  • establishment of a two year time frame for decommissioning of paramilitary weapons;
  • repeal of the Government of Ireland Act 1920 by the British Parliament.[4]
  • abolition of the Republic of Ireland's territorial claim to Northern Ireland via the modification of Articles 2 and 3 of its constitution. As a result, the territorial claim which had subsisted since 29 December 1937 was dropped on 2 December 1999;[5]
  • introduction of legislation governing policing, human rights and equality in Northern Ireland
  • normalisation of security measures, e.g. closure of redundant army bases.
  • reform of the police led by the Independent Commission on Policing for Northern Ireland;
  • equality of social, economic and cultural rights of all ethnic communities e.g. official recognition of the Irish and Ulster Scots languages;
  • recognition of the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose; and
  • confirmation that the right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

(you can see I can't write this all myself)

Essentially, the Good Friday agreement meant an end to armed hostilities in the North, the IRA agreed a ceasefire and to having its weapons destroyed (this never really happened).

From this point on, there has been little to no action taken by the IRA or its numerous splinter groups (Real and Continuity IRA being the most notable), but the groups never dissipated, they merely boiled over under the surface. This weekend saw the first attack against British soldiers in the North by the IRA in ten years, and this is why it is so angering and also worrying. Basically, I see this as an attempt to stir up hatred in the North in order to recruit new members in the weak economic climate, and continue a fight that everybody else knew was over. I liken the perpetrators to the Japanese soldier who fought WW2 long after it was over. The rest of the world has moved on, these people are still living in the past.

The IRA, far from it's original goal of freeing Ireland from British oppression, has become a truly criminal organisation (legally criminal since 1998 I believe also), and is involved in gun running, fuel smuggling, and general thuggery for years, and held a ransom over some communities, who could not argue for fear of their lives.

Their objectives are clear. 

1: Kill British soldiers to try and increase the amount of soldiers on the streets. This would increase tension and bring people's mindsets back to the 1980's, when the troubles were at their peak.
2: Kill Catholic members of the PSNI, to discourage Catholics from joining a 'traitorous' police force.
3: Undermine the political power-sharing process between Catholic/Portestant, Loyalist/Nationalist/Republicanist (some of these terms are almost obsolete or misleading), leading to a breakdown of communication and a return to a war of words, which in turn leads to murders on the ground.
4: Terrorise ordinary people, and from this try and influence their behaviour towards and allegiance to their cause against the oppressor.
5: Unite Ireland as one entity. lol. lol. lol. This objective is their smokescreen really. A united Ireland is the mantra by which they justify their illegal activities and is not their primary objective.

This is the group that murdered the two British soldiers (wiki is less taxing on my fingers and my brain). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_IRA

This is the group that killed the PSNI Constable.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_IRA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:41
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Sad they are at it again
 
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

With the Republic of Ireland becoming part of the EU I thought this would be over.
 
Nice to see the American media is keeping the public so well informed.
 
The question I always ask Americans is why do the Americans make such a fuss about Britain occupying a mere six counties but never bother about the four occupied by France and two by Holland.
 
Perhaps you can enlighten me.

So good you posted it twice.

What Americans were making a fuss? Perhaps you can enlighten us all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:41
I will have to get back to this but many thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2009 at 23:43
I can only echo the sentiments of other posters, in saying that it is terrible that all the good will which has been built up has been hit hard by these extremists. Do other members here think that this incident will lead to an escalation in violence, or can it be contained as an aberration from the overall move towards peaceful coexistence?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 00:07


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Northern-Ireland-30-Years-Of-The-Troubles---A-History-In-Pictures/Media-Gallery/20061011236090?lpos=UK_News_Article_Related_Content_Region_4&lid=GALLERY_1236090_Northern_Ireland%3A_30_Years_Of_The_Troubles_-_A_History_In_Pictures
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 09:35
Dolphin made a good post, but just wanted to explain that the history of the IRA is very complicated, as is the history of Irish Republicanism generally. Factionalism and splits are frequent, and often groups oppose each other on tribal grounds (For example, the Continuity IRA has important bases in some of the worst areas of Northern Ireland, such as some of the estates in Craigavon where that policeman was shot recently. The Real IRA still have a presence in Belfast) The worst attack in the Troubles, which actually occured after GFA, was in Omagh Town in 1998 where 28 civilians were blown up. I actually had a distant relative die in that explosion.

The IRA were the offshoot of the Irish Volunteers (Former in 1913 in opposition to the Ulster Volunteer Force, a Protestant Unionist paramilitary group) The UVF were extremely well armed and trained. They were lead for the most part by former British army Colonels and men of higher rank (The Northern aristocracy has a long military tradition within the British army) They could command a huge arsenal of rifles and had obscene ammunition, the British authorities passed a blind eye to their training and preparation for Civil war in 1913/1914. This goes back before the actual Republican movement towards the constitutional efforts at Home Rule by John Redmond. The Irish Volunteers had a few thousand rifles, were poorly trained and disciplined but seemed ready to fight Ulster should the Civil War break out.

People forget that Ulster and the rest of Ireland were on the verge of an all out war in 1914 before WWI broke out. During the war, most of the UVF joined the army and fought on the Western Front. In UVF folklore, the massacre of the unionists at Thiepval Wood at the Somme (Where thousands died in one engagement) is celebrated in July, along with their Orange marches on the 12th.

In Easter 1916 a group of poet revolutionaries, led by the insane Patrick Pearse, occupied a certain number of buildings in Dublin and fought a week long battle against the meagre British forces in the capital. After the trouble cleared up, after about a week, most of the leaders were executed.

The war was incredibly unpopular, but most Irish people dispised the Easter rebels. Many saw Pearse and co. as insane. (I certainly do) However, as they began to be executed, public opinion slowly turned to sympathy. In 1918, as the war in Europe was reaching its hottest stages, the British tried to introduce conscription into Ireland -  a massive mistake. Sinn Féin, who rapidly became the political party of Irish Republicanism, waged a stunning election campaign, uniting those most dissafected and even began to discredit the constitutionalist Home Rule party. The election saw an overwhelming victory for Sinn Féin in the south, but in the north, as ever, the Unionists won their vote. The divisions between the two were as strong as ever.

In the war of Independence, a small cadre of men operated in Dublin, and in Munster. The IRA could command large numbers of men, but so few were armed it was pointless. Instead, the best men were organised into flying columns, who ambushed and hit the British forces wherever they could. Arms and ammunition were limited but they fought with great spirity - in fact, people should read their memoirs. The obstacles thrown in front of these young men were phenonomal. The brutality of the British - the Black and Tans - helped to bring the people behind them. When all said and done the fighting in Ireland was almost exclusively in the south and in Dublin, much of the country never fired a bullet against the British. The groups of columns, brigade, batallions and all the rest were however organised under a loosely organised 'Irish Republican Army', which swore allegiance to the Dáil and the Irish Republic. The Treaty split, where most of the IRA went anti-treaty is a good example of its tendency to fragment.

Sorry for spouting on here, but I'm coming to my point. Concurrently, in the north, a northern government was established with the Government of Ireland act in 1920 (As was a southern government, which went unrecognised by Sinn Féin and the IRA) Thousands of catholics were kicked out of the main shipyards in Belfast, and the new organs of the Northern State - the hated and infamous B Specials - launched what can only be described as a pogrom against Catholics. Almost an equal number of people died in the north during the war of independence, even though the IRA were extremely weak there and launched very few attacks. The Northern government did, over the ensuing years, create raft of legislation which was deemed anti-catholic (This is more myth than fact, but there is no doubt that catholics were discriminated against) The IRA were always a presence but did very little except in the mid 1930s, the late 1950s and of course in the troubles (1969-1997) The IRA were very well armed and funded (We can blame the Americans for that)

It is true that the northern catholics did face discrimination, and this does explain the support base of the IRA in the north during the troubles, but this is often overstated. Most northern catholics voted for the constitutionalists, the SDLP, a non violent political party opposed to the IRA. Historians estimate maybe around 10-15% of northern Catholics actively helped the IRA, around 50% passively sympathised, letting them stay in the house 'on the run', nursing them maybe or helping them escape, but generally would do the same if a British soldier came to the door. The rest were solidly opposed to the IRA, a fact many forget.

Nevertheless, with Good Friday, everyone breated a sigh of relief. A few dissidents, like the Real IRA split from the Provisional IRA. They have very few arms and little political or moral direction. The Continuity IRA split in 1986. I don't think we're looking at a return to the troubles. They have no political movement, they represent no-one, and although some undoubtedly sympathise, they have no popular support.

Sorry for spouting on, but as you can see it would be easy to write a 100 page post about this, the history of the IRA and Ireland generally is very complex, where seemingly small events are extremely important to understand the greater picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 09:52
Just to add, never trust wikipedia on this. Their articles are edited either by fanatical Republicans or loyalists. Some of the things I've seen there is absurd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 11:02
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

The question I always ask Americans is why do the Americans make such a fuss about Britain occupying a mere six counties but never bother about the four occupied by France and two by Holland.

Which two counties?

Not that I'm being all defensively nationalist about it, it's just that I've got no idea what you are referring to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 14:47
I find it funny when Britain comes to the rescue and sends it troops thousands of Kms to Afghanistan to fight people who haven't targeted Britain yet, make a lot of fuss about supporting "home grown" terror from Pakistan and elsewhere while the IRA which killed much more Brits than Al-Qaeda is funded, harboured and trained in both their "greatest ally" that took it upon itself to declare war on terror and of course in the Irish republic.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 16:44
 
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

I find it funny when Britain comes to the rescue and sends it troops thousands of Kms to Afghanistan to fight people who haven't targeted Britain yet, make a lot of fuss about supporting "home grown" terror from Pakistan and elsewhere while the IRA which killed much more Brits than Al-Qaeda is funded, harboured and trained in both their "greatest ally" that took it upon itself to declare war on terror and of course in the Irish republic.
 
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Let me get this right.
 
1. I believe you're talking about the PIRA when the post is about RIRA.
 
2. PIRA were mostly armed and funded and by Libya, they trained amongst other places at PLO bases.
 
3. No war on the Republic of Ireland has even been declared and from what I remember there has been hardly any terrorism there, the odd attack by the UFF or UVF or whatever but that's all. (and one racehorse shot)


Edited by Paul - 11-Mar-2009 at 17:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 17:22
Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

"Terrorism" is not a monopoly of the Islamic world after all.....


that was not terrorism, terrorism is randomly targeting civilians. none of them were civilians.
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