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Forum LockedIndependent Texas?

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Poll Question: Could Texas become independent?
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9 [60.00%]
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    Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 12:39
Link to the news:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/gov-rick-perry-texas-coul_n_187490.html

Since I heard posting whole news is not a valid option... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 13:34
It is as long as it follows the CoC.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 13:50
Only after Quebec and the Basque country become independent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 15:32
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Only after Quebec and the Basque country become independent


Why? And you know there is no chance with the Basque country - right?
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Promises, promises...
To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 16:24
Hello to you all
 
This was part of a campaign (tea party they call it I think) by republicans to continue to dupe their base about the evil leftist dems who in 2 months expanded government, accumilated debt and stamped on state rights as if not all these things happened ten fold under their watch by their own hands in the past 8 years.
 
But what really strikes me is the number of stupid people who believe this s**t.
 
AL-Jassas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 17:50
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Only after Quebec and the Basque country become independent
Though the chances for true independence are non existent, I can see the United States gradually fragmenting into increasingly autonomous areas (similar perhaps to Catalunya in Spain). 
 
There are some indications that this is already happening. There is an increasing cultural divide between the progressive coasts and the conservative interior. California does not send ambassadors abroad, but they do send "trade delegations".  Vermont's governor at one time refused to federalize the state's National Guard in support of the Gulf War. The Mexican government approached each border state indvidually about some immigration policies.
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

 
But what really strikes me is the number of stupid people who believe this s**t.
Yes, it was a stupid political stunt. But the drift towards increasingly autonomous regions could be very real. The last real challenge to the U.S. Federal system was de-segregation in the 1950s. Federal paratroopers ended any thoughts of regional autonomy in Little Rock, Arkansas.  But.... I wonder if the drift towards autonomy was gradual, would there be enoough interest to counter act it.  


Edited by Cryptic - 16-Apr-2009 at 18:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 18:21
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Link to the news:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/gov-rick-perry-texas-coul_n_187490.html

Since I heard posting whole news is not a valid option... Wink


it is a valid option as long as you add your own commentary and not just copy & paste the link with nothing else which is just spam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 18:32
Originally posted by Cryptic Cryptic wrote:

Yes, it was a stupid political stunt. But the drift towards increasingly autonomous regions could be very real. The last real challenge to the U.S. Federal system was de-segregation in the 1950s. Federal paratroopers ended any thoughts of regional autonomy in Little Rock, Arkansas.  But.... I wonder if the drift towards autonomy was gradual, would there be enoough interest to counter act it.  
It would be a drift back towards autonomy: a reversal of the 200-odd year drift toward centralisation. Not that that makes it any more or less likely.
 
Texas shares with Hawaii the distinction of being the only states that existed as countries independent of the US before joining the union, doesn't it? I suppose that technically affects the legal situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 18:46
weren't also California and western Florida independent countries before?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 18:48

What about vermont?

   Al-Jassas

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 19:10
^
Yes, Hawaii, Texas, California and Western Florida / South East Alabama all existed briefly as independent countries.  I do not think that Vermont ever was.  As a side note, indigenous Indian tribes were identified by the U.S. government as independent nations until the 1890s when the U.S. supreme court changed their status to "dependent domestic nations".
 
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

It would be a drift back towards autonomy: a reversal of the 200-odd year drift toward centralisation. Not that that makes it any more or less likely.
Good point. Yet even after a 200 year drift towards centralisation, U.S. states still retain alot of self governance in regards to educational, police, and legal systems. From a technical perspective (though not in practice), each state also maintains its own military force as well. Unlike in Federalized Europan nations, a fall back to true autonomy by U.S. states would not involve taking that many steps backwards.  


Edited by Cryptic - 16-Apr-2009 at 19:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 19:11
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Hello to you all
 

This was part of a campaign (tea party they call it I think) by republicans to continue to dupe their base about the evil leftist dems who in 2 months expanded government, accumilated debt and stamped on state rights as if not all these things happened ten fold under their watch by their own hands in the past 8 years.

 

But what really strikes me is the number of stupid people who believe this s**t.

 

AL-Jassas


Al- for someone who lives in a Theocracy (no offense) with little freedoms compared to the USA what do you really know about the real conservatives movement of America- not the Neo-cons or phony conservatives. About 50% of American do not pay taxes so I cannot blame people for protesting and it their constitutional right to hold peaceful protests. I do not think these people object to paying taxes but only being over taxed and it their right unlike many countries to protest.

Since you do not like conservatives, for whatever reason, you demonize them just like the liberal media does. There are some more moderate liberals also taking part in this protest so please stop generalizing and stereotyping.

I suggest reading the Tenth Amendment in our Constitution which deals with an overbearing Federal government.

Of course the head of Homeland security Janet Lapalotano sent out a Memo, not meant for the Public, about those evil right wing conservatives. I have printed this ten page document out and I am reviewing it and of course it labels people that would support the tea party as potential terrorist along with anyone against gay marriage, abortion or returning Vets.

Unlike you these people are US citizens and they are the ones overpaying. I paid this year but also got some back.

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

respectively, or to the people. hmmm

from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Edited by eaglecap - 16-Apr-2009 at 19:17
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 20:12
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Hello to you all ? This was part of a campaign?(tea party they call it I think) by republicans to continue to dupe their base about the evil leftist dems who in 2 months expanded government, accumilated debt and stamped on state rights as if not all these things happened ten fold under their watch by their own hands in the past 8 years. ? But what really strikes me is the number of stupid people who believe this s**t. ? AL-Jassas
Tell me about it. Individual rights have practically been raped by the GOP (and some dems) through measures such as the Patriot Act ( kind of a misnomer, too, for a document that tramples on a root source of patriotism and a pillar of the USA - the Constitution). The spending craze started under Bush, at least the Obama administration is actually appropriating a large portion of funds into useful avenues.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 20:18
Originally posted by Cryptic Cryptic wrote:

^
Yes, Hawaii, Texas, California and Western Florida / South East Alabama all existed briefly as independent countries.
Hmmm...The 'California Republic' was declared in 1846 and lasted 25 days, but I don't think it was ever recognised by anyone as an independent state. From an international recognition standpoint it went straight from being Mexican territory to US on annexation.
 
I thought the whole of the Floridas, including southern Alabama, was ceded to the US by Spain after the first Seminole war.
 
I should have written 'only two internationally recognised independent states'.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 20:48
Originally posted by Cryptic Cryptic wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Only after Quebec and the Basque country become independent
Though the chances for true independence are non existent, I can see the United States gradually fragmenting into increasingly autonomous areas (similar perhaps to Catalunya in Spain). 
 
There are some indications that this is already happening. There is an increasing cultural divide between the progressive coasts and the conservative interior. California does not send ambassadors abroad, but they do send "trade delegations".  Vermont's governor at one time refused to federalize the state's National Guard in support of the Gulf War. The Mexican government approached each border state indvidually about some immigration policies.
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

 
But what really strikes me is the number of stupid people who believe this s**t.
Yes, it was a stupid political stunt. But the drift towards increasingly autonomous regions could be very real. The last real challenge to the U.S. Federal system was de-segregation in the 1950s. Federal paratroopers ended any thoughts of regional autonomy in Little Rock, Arkansas.  But.... I wonder if the drift towards autonomy was gradual, would there be enoough interest to counter act it.  


How do the Lakotas fit in all of this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 20:51
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Al- for someone who lives in a Theocracy (no offense) with little freedoms compared to the USA


A Theocracy...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 20:53
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Hmmm...The 'California Republic' was declared in 1846 and lasted 25 days, but I don't think it was ever recognised by anyone as an independent state. From an international recognition standpoint it went straight from being Mexican territory to US on annexation.
 
I thought the whole of the Floridas, including southern Alabama, was ceded to the US by Spain after the first Seminole war.
 
I should have written 'only two internationally recognised independent states'.
 


international recognition means nothing, it's just a political tool to piss off or court other nations for whatever reasons. do you think before world politics there were no independent states?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 21:00
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Cryptic Cryptic wrote:

^
Yes, Hawaii, Texas, California and Western Florida / South East Alabama all existed briefly as independent countries.
Hmmm...The 'California Republic' was declared in 1846 and lasted 25 days, but I don't think it was ever recognised by anyone as an independent state. From an international recognition standpoint it went straight from being Mexican territory to US on annexation.
 
I thought the whole of the Floridas, including southern Alabama, was ceded to the US by Spain after the first Seminole war.
 
I should have written 'only two internationally recognised independent states'.
 


Back then, the term "international recognition" is problematic, tricky. Where there the United Nations?

Also, recall the similar application to "de facto independence" of Mongolia & Tibet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 21:46
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

I thought the whole of the Floridas, including southern Alabama, was ceded to the US by Spain after the first Seminole war.  
The Northwest panhandle of Florida together with a small part of Alabama was under a different form of colonial administration from Spain (like Spain's adminsitration of Mexico proper verse the Yucatan Penninsula. Technically, the Yucatan was never intended to be part of Mexico). Following Spain's exit, the Northwest Florida enjoyed a very brief period as a self declared nation.  
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:


How do the Lakotas fit in all of this?
Though Indian activists describe themselves as nations, U.S. courts have not considered Indian tribes to sovereign nations since the 1890s. 1890s was also the last time a U.S. Federal court ruled that several soldiers killed by Indians were not murdered, but rather killed in battle with a sovereign nation.


Edited by Cryptic - 16-Apr-2009 at 21:59
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