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Forum LockedImperialism and Racism

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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Imperialism and Racism
    Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 14:21
Originally posted by calvo

 If you go to any major European capital today you'll find people of all colours, languages, and religion. Try Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Brussels, Zurich, Viena, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Milan, Rome.....

The point is that the principal dividers of European societies is not "race", but ethnicity (perceived identity), religious background, nationality, and (most important of all) social class.
True, but I'd add to that in Britain at least, the educational level and background. (Though that is connected with social class of course.)
 
It's why I mentioned Ranjitsinhji earlier: I've no doubt the rulers of the empire felt they had more in common  with a Harrow and Cambridge-educated Indian prince who could score 180 before lunch against Sussex as an amateur than they would with a professional like Hobbs, who was probably a better bat but only born in Cambridge, not educated there.
 
PS. Look at scorecards from cricket matches around a hundred years ago. If you were 'one of us' they printed your initials before your name. If you were not 'one of us' they just gave the surname, or if necessary to distinguish, the initials were placed after.
 
Ranji was always listed as 'K.S.Ranjitsinhji'. Hobbs was just 'Hobbs'.


Edited by gcle2003 - 14-Mar-2009 at 14:29
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dacian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2009 at 01:25
Originally posted by calvo

Originally posted by pebbles

 
Aren't those places colonized by the British Empire except Indonesia was ruled under Dutch East India Trading Company ?!
 
Several South-Pacific born ethnic Chinese forumites @ CHF discussed the issue extensively.European colonial powers had " divide & conquer " strategy by placing the " foreigner " Chinese in commerce as middlemen and keeping the indigenous population as manual labor force in lower-tier economic class.This is the root cause of ethnic rift or clash.Of-course,there are some other factors ( mainly economic ) involved in modern time.I am not from there,so have nothing more to add.
 
You might be right but you can't blame all the problems on the Europeans.
As far as I know, hate crimes have always existed and is independent of any biological racist ideology. It is an extreme form of intolerance to anyone who's different: different color, accent, dress style, religion.. or whatever. It is part of a tribal instinct taken to the extreme.
 
As early as the 1st century A.D., a hate mob of Greeks and Egyptians exploded in the city of Alexandria who murdered, set fire, and looted the Jewish community.
In Istanbul back in the 50s and 60s; Turkish mobs looted Greek businesses....
Last year, xenophobic violence exploded in South Africa where zulu and native tribesmen beat up on immigrants from neighbouring countries randomly.
In Rumanian, there are hate crimes directed against Gypsies, Muslims, and members of the Hungarian minority.
In Chiapas, Mexico, Central American migrants are often beaten up by local farmers.
Black African migrants are insulted and attacked for their colour more often in Morocco and Algeria than in Spain, Portugal, or France.
 
..... the list goes on.......
 
Did they have a racial agenda? The answer is no.
 
 



yay first time I hear the Muslim thingie for Rumania.

Hungarian-Romanian violence is just a stupid circle of revenge-revenge stuff caused by the town ethnicities sharing Transilvania and each claiming first right to it.
Cycle is present-1918 romanians ruled the land, 1918-sec X hungarians ruled, sec X-274en all the different migrators, 274en-106 Roman Empire rules, 106-sec III BC dacian/thracian ruled and before indoeuropeans and before neolithic cultures etc.

Gypsys are a common scapegoat in whole Eastern Europe being the last migrators in the area on visibly different from the locals.

And Muslims absolutely never heard of anything like that. Can you share your sources on it?


And overall its not racism but ethnic differences, crime rates caused by poverty within certain communities for which the whole comunity gets the scapegoat status and so forth.

I am interested on your muslim source pls as it's the first time I ever heard something like this.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2009 at 08:49
yay first time I hear the Muslim thingie for Rumania.
 
I can't exactly quote the source, but I have read it somewhere on the internet news about Muslims being attacked in Rumania or something like that. It was probably a very isolated incidence.
 
The point I was trying to make is that hate crime could exist with the complete lack of biological racist theories.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dacian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 01:57
Originally posted by calvo

yay first time I hear the Muslim thingie for Rumania.
 
I can't exactly quote the source, but I have read it somewhere on the internet news about Muslims being attacked in Rumania or something like that. It was probably a very isolated incidence.
 
The point I was trying to make is that hate crime could exist with the complete lack of biological racist theories.


fair enough maybe you can find the source. I am not the holder of absolute truth nor am I informed of everything that happens that is for sure.....so if you find the source please post it so I can get my head around it.

if you talk about when Wallachia had border with the Ottoman empire than it is more likely since turks happen to be muslim so you could draw this interpretation (even though it is wrong) but you have used the present tense this is why I was a bit stunned.

Another argument is that for most of the time things are reciprocical (sp?). I don't remember muslims attacking romanians so I see no reasons for the reverse to happen.

In all other cases it is a classic case of relentless payback cycle in which the victims and the agressors keep rotating and afterwards its all about propaganda...in front of the west victimize as much as possible and in situ boast and chest thump.


Edited by Dacian - 15-May-2009 at 02:00
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Etnad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2009 at 15:23
Its a hard question, I would discribe the imperalists as .. "positive racism", because of the fact that the imperalists had a mentality that said they needed to help the the ignorants.
They showed them democracy and their way of living, because they thought it was their duty as some sort of "supreme" human.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2009 at 17:09
One can maybe say that the ideological and "scientific" concept of race were rather unique for the west (or at least for some western countries, like UK, the US, Germany, Sweden). Here some authors wrote extensively about that theme and they also influenced politicians and others.
 
One of the more rabiat of these ideologists was Robert Knox (a former anathomy student of Cuivier) who wrote a rather infamous book with the title The races of man. A fragment (1850) where he goes on about the darker races inferiority and the alleged causes behind it, for example a lower quality of the brain. He also wrote "Race is everything: poetry, science, art, shortly civilisation - everything depends on the race."
He and others like Gobineau came to influence others and the notion of race and racial purity came to be important in several countries. As an example Sweden got an institute for racial biology which had as one of it´s objects to keep the Swedish race pure from so called lower elements. Here in Sweden the doctrines of that institute came to affect societies treatment of minorities as the Samis and the Romani people (gypsies).
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