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Forum LockedI,H,Y and OI in Greek

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Post Options Post Options   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: I,H,Y and OI in Greek
    Posted: 08-Jun-2007 at 17:17
Dear Greek friends, I study Greek by myself now. The letters I,H,Y and OI in Greek seems to sound the same. Is there a difference in pronunciation? If not, why are there 4 different usage for the same sound? Some information with examples pleaseSmile.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2007 at 17:57
Originally posted by kotumeyil

Dear Greek friends, I study Greek by myself now. The letters I,H,Y and OI in Greek seems to sound the same. Is there a difference in pronunciation? If not, why are there 4 different usage for the same sound? Some information with examples pleaseSmile.
they sound the same but we use them in order to identify the word.
 
e.g.
psilo(latin)
ψηλό(high)
ψιλό(thin)
 
philo(latin)
φύλο(gender)
φίλος(friend)
 
ida(latin)
οίδα(know)
είδα(I saw)
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2007 at 06:47
OI is also used for plural forms...

Xeni (Latin)
Ξένη (Foreign female)
Ξένοι (Foreigners)

Both sound exactly the same.


Edited by Flipper - 09-Jun-2007 at 06:51


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Post Options Post Options   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2007 at 17:24
Thank youSmile.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neoptolemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 02:29
There is also EI who sounds the same (note that in OI and EI if there are two dots above I then they are treated as two different letters).

They all sound the same, but they are important for grammar:
ending of plural: OI
ending of verbs: EI
neuter nouns ending: I
feminine adjectives ending: H
...

Lets also take Y (ypsilon): for ancient greeks it probably sounded a bit different than Iota and the others. Even though today the sound is the same, we still write the words the same way as ancients did (this can be said about other ees as well).
It also helps on the etymology of the words. Take the word upothesis (hypothesis) fe; using Y(u) we know that it comes from YPO+THESIS and not from IPPO+THESIS (ippo=horse). My example may not be the best one, but you get what I want to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 07:21
the best source for The Turks to study Greek are those written by Azmi Aksoy. I think if you buy his book that ebars the name ''Modern Yunanca'' published by FONO, you will get into language much easier...they are very comprensive and includes practcies after every subject
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 07:46
 
I started with Pimsleur Greek I and I also have Rosetta Stone Greek I and II. Also FSI programme is free on the internet. If I can manage to develop my Greek,  I also want to study Persian and Arabic.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 08:02
Why do you want to study modern Greek? I find it not beneficary at all.
 
maybe you are gonna pursue a career in the army?LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 08:47
Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Why do you want to study modern Greek? I find it not beneficary at all.
 
maybe you are gonna pursue a career in the army?LOL
you are wrong. Many  Greeks specially those in the Aegean learning the Turkish language and have or would have coloboration with Turks in the Minor Asia. They focus in the turism.
 
So is not only the militaries that want to learn Greek or Turkish.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 10:17
Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Why do you want to study modern Greek? I find it not beneficary at all.
 
maybe you are gonna pursue a career in the army?LOL
 
Well, I'm an EU Expert and an amateur musician interested in Turkish, Balcan and rembetiko music and no, I don't want to inform the military about my Greek knowledge because if they take me to the Intelligence office, I won't be allowed to go abroad for 5 yearsWink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 14:10
Originally posted by akritas

Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Why do you want to study modern Greek? I find it not beneficary at all.
 
maybe you are gonna pursue a career in the army?LOL
you are wrong. Many  Greeks specially those in the Aegean learning the Turkish language and have or would have coloboration with Turks in the Minor Asia. They focus in the turism.
 
So is not only the militaries that want to learn Greek or Turkish.
Learning Greek for Turks have one purpose, spying the Greeks better Big%20smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 14:40
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by akritas

Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Why do you want to study modern Greek? I find it not beneficary at all.
 
maybe you are gonna pursue a career in the army?LOL
you are wrong. Many  Greeks specially those in the Aegean learning the Turkish language and have or would have coloboration with Turks in the Minor Asia. They focus in the turism.
 
So is not only the militaries that want to learn Greek or Turkish.
Learning Greek for Turks have one purpose, spying the Greeks better Big%20smile
It depends the personality of the "student"!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2007 at 10:58
I admit I would also like to learn turkish in order to "spy" on them (my grandfather, who was an army officer, actually did this), but a language is much more than this.
 
If I was able, I would like to learn Russian, (and secondarily all slavic languages) and Arabic.
 
kotumeyil, all this OI,EI, H etc today sound the same, but 2500 years ago they (probably) were different. H was more like a long E (I'm convinced about that) and Y like the german U with umlaut (I'm not so sure about that however).
If you really intend to learn greek, be careful, because in the west, most 'scholars' that 'speak' greek use the erasmian accent (of how supposedly words were pronounced in ancient Greece -proven to be partially wrong, but still very widely accepted and used).
Trust more your turkish sources than these.
 
An interesting topic of discussion would be: who do you think speak the other language more Greeks or Turks?
I think there are more greeks speaking turkish (as their second language -Constantinopolitans, or even as their first -Gypsies (turkish minorilty is excluded as these people are actually turks and not greeks))

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2007 at 13:24
Originally posted by xristar

 
An interesting topic of discussion would be: who do you think speak the other language more Greeks or Turks?
I think there are more greeks speaking turkish (as their second language -Constantinopolitans, or even as their first -Gypsies (turkish minorilty is excluded as these people are actually turks and not greeks))


Well, in the older generations there are more Greeks speaking Turkish, because some are Constantinopolitans. Also, in Thrace you've got Greeks who has turkish friends and learn in that way.

As for the gypsies you're talking about, is the gypsies of thrace. Many are of turkish origin, but the rest of the gypsies in Greece have various backgrounds.

However, i tend to see, as Akritas said, many young turkish bisuness men who learn Greek.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 02:41
What's the current situation of the usage of Katharevousa in Greece?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 04:32
Originally posted by kotumeyil

What's the current situation of the usage of Katharevousa in Greece?
 
Practically non-existent anymore dear Kotu....
 
There's one small newspaper that is still printed in Katharevousa, called "ESTIA" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estia
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 06:32
Originally posted by kotumeyil

What's the current situation of the usage of Katharevousa in Greece?


Only the church uses it and sometimes...I suggest you skip it completely and move first to medieval greek and afterwards ancient greek.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 14:23
Originally posted by akritas

Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Why do you want to study modern Greek? I find it not beneficary at all.
 
maybe you are gonna pursue a career in the army?LOL
you are wrong. Many  Greeks specially those in the Aegean learning the Turkish language and have or would have coloboration with Turks in the Minor Asia. They focus in the turism.
 
So is not only the militaries that want to learn Greek or Turkish.
 
Wikipedia ranks modern Greek 61. rank, and writes 14-19 m native speakers... People learn modern Greek for holiday reasons. Therefore  most of the time it is limited to travel phasesLOL I met some people who learn ancient Greek, but not modern Greek language.That is why I said learning modern Greek is few of significance, if not any.
 
In Europe most beneficiary languages must be English, French, Spanish, Russian and German for engineers..
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neoptolemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 21:49
^^ Any language you learn (yes even greek) offers you a minimum benefit, even if this is just the satisfaction you get from knowing that you speak a foreign language. Of course there are several other (at least potential) benefits, but I'm not going to get into details here; any thinking person could identify them.

Kotumeyil, are you learning modern, medieval or ancient greek? I don't think you should bother with kathareuousa btw
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2007 at 02:21
As for katharevousa, I saw the graphic below in a study material of 1967. I wonder what changed since 1967.
 
 
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