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Forum LockedIf Turks were Christians??

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: If Turks were Christians??
    Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 09:51

i took a look at prior topics but i could not encounter directly related with this topic. if i am wrong moderators please erase this thread

my question is: if turks were christians not muslims, or let's say in other words; if they were converted to christianity would they become the leading power of europe and survived in the southern europe even today without opposition the native people there( greeks, serbs, albanians, bulgarians, hungarians etc.). Would this incident have bringed the thrown of holy roman throne and even the succeeding popes to istanbul and turks get acceptance like other converted nations like bulgarians, hungarians etc??

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:02

no they wouldnt. Greeks, serbs,hungarians* are christian too but they are not so powerfull today.

* Hungarians are christian turks.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Turkish Soul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:06
Originally posted by erkut

no they wouldnt. Greeks, serbs,hungarians* are christian too but they are not so powerfull today.

* Hungarians are christian turks.

 

I agree with Erkut.Religion does not matter if you want to be a modern nation.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:09
Originally posted by erkut

no they wouldnt. Greeks, serbs,hungarians* are christian too but they are not so powerfull today.

* Hungarians are christian turks.

i think i was misunderstood

i asked the political consequences of such a conversion. By that time turks were the leading force of the east and southern europe and my opinion is turks would have had acceptance as the leading country of all christianship when spain once was. the pope of that time made such a call to mehmed II

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:17
Originally posted by Turkish Soul

Originally posted by erkut

no they wouldnt. Greeks, serbs,hungarians* are christian too but they are not so powerfull today.

* Hungarians are christian turks.

 

I agree with Erkut.Religion does not matter if you want to be a modern nation.

 

i don't argue christianity is superior to islam. do not mislead the topic please.

given that most of the battles between ottomans and europeans took place as a crusade as the ability of the pope to call nations to war against infidels then assuming turks had a common religion with europeans would have put them to an influential position

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Post Options Post Options   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:20
Nothing would change, they still would hate us.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:23
no i think you and turkishsoul missunderstand. until today any christian country accept others leading. Did frenchs accepted Holly Roman Emperors leading. Or did england accepted spanish leading. in history no one wanted to lead by others
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:25

hate or love are just emotions

almost every european nation have conflicts with another one. they just finished their work (WW2) and maybe not ( war of yugoslavia)

but my theory argues the common religion would have eased the integration

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Post Options Post Options   Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:31
you see same religion didint integrate diferent nations. Muslim Albanians and Araps fight against ottomans for lead themself.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:36

Originally posted by erkut

no i think you and turkishsoul missunderstand. until today any christian country accept others leading. Did frenchs accepted Holly Roman Emperors leading. Or did england accepted spanish leading. in history no one wanted to lead by others

but nobody tries to drove away the other to the steppes of asia.

turks were more powerful than any posssible sum of most powerful european states of that time and they made their hegomony accepted by most states. the only reason for european states were reluctant about turks that they were muslims. yes its true nobody wants nobodies tyrrany but no opposition would last 500 years

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Post Options Post Options   Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:46
Originally posted by cebeci

turks were more powerful than any posssible sum of most powerful european states of that time and they made their hegomony accepted by most states. the only reason for european states were reluctant about turks that they were muslims. yes its true nobody wants nobodies tyrrany but no opposition would last 500 years

no if we were a powerfull christian empire they dont want us anyway. Becouse they dont want anyother empire but themselfs. Did englishs, austrians, russian, prussians accepted Napoleon? yes some of them ruled by napoleon. but they are forced to accept him.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 13:12
Originally posted by erkut

 

* Hungarians are christian turks.

What pan turan website told you this?

http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 14:28
Serbs, Montenegrins, Slav Macedonians, and Greeks are not only all Christian, but all of the same variety of Christianity, and they haven't stopped fighting.

It's, of course, not as strong as the conflict between these countries and Turkey but it's strong enough that Montenegro will vote for independence in April, the Macedonians and Greeks will forever fight each other over the name - with the Macedonians also fighting against Serbia for the independence of the Macedonian Orthodox Church. Etc, etc, etc.

There'd still be problems.
[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 14:54

a Hungarian invented Pan-Turanism.

Anyay, I believe the Ottomans declared a Jihad to conquer the Byzantines, if they were Christian they would have become like the Bulgarians.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bashibozuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 15:08

Yes, that's an important point. When we think pragmatically, Islam was the best option for Turks to move into west from Central Asia, as a combining power between new ethnicities/locals and chance of leadership. Turks would never be able to conquer that much and expand through three continents without converting into Islam. Or to hold the leadership of caliphate/Sunni Islam...

On the other side, we have Christian Turks in Moldovia-Ukraina, the Gagauz. We also have some Christian Turkic people in Kazakhstan and Russia. But it is not a big deal at all. Converting to Christianity was more adventageous to them, or more natural as the result of historical conditions, so they are Christians now. Turks converted the religions and adopted the cultures where they conquered or settled, and that's what makes them adopt to new conditions so easily. It may be a result of nomadic lifestyle and great immigrations to the far corners of earth from their homeland...



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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 15:18

i think turks are 'the others' actions of which would have never been tolerated by europeans.

mila as you say there might be great disputes between the native europeans themselves but these do not prevent a common 'evil turk' image. There is no other example of such an common and widespread opposition to any other country or nation in europe. It has been 3 months since my first time in this forum and at least 1/3 of all topics are related to to turks and turkish barbary, genocide of armenians, genocide of greeks and so on whereas no so-called enemy states of europe have never been discussed so much and with 100 degrees celcius. Noone cares about what christian greeks did to muslim turks or christian armenians killed muslims while the opposite is always true.

so the turks formed a common evil to all european nations and as they were christians the conditions would have been changed considerably. The same thing applies  also for today. turkey faces a reluctant and discouraging attitude from EU just because they are muslims. Someone will almost inevitably come up and tell me about economy, education, culture, population density etc but these are 100% BS cause only religion matters for europeans even they explore the space

BTW the same thing is also true for muslim world

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 15:37

Well I think, If turks were christians, It would be us who asimilated. Not greeks or armenians.

So most probably, we would call ourself as greek.

Well I prefer eurepean enemity, In fact I dont care much.

By the way, If turks are christians, we would have a place at stormfront. Anyone interested with this?

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 15:52

always misunderstood

i dont prefer christianity or do not long for it. btw religion is like a lottery youre gonna be what your environment supplies to you

all i wanna do is to brainstorming onto what happens in case our ancestors chose christianity

mortaza are we not the frontline country now??

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 15:59

No I didnt say you prefer it. I dont think there are realy much turk who will prefer christianity over islam.

But I dont know how turkishness will survive, If ottomans were a christian country, we would be just become another christian minority at anatolia. Nothing more.

Remember before TC, Turk=Muslim. If we were christian, most probably we would be helenised.

I agree Turkey is a frontline country, but religion lost most of Its effect.

By the way, do you know our parliment discussed to change our religion to christianity?

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 16:15

no./ definitely no idea

grateful if you inform me

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