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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 14:29
"Q" could be easily changed to 'h', right, but it's not that much frequent with 'u'. What more, if that' 'u', for sure the last part wouldn't be 'er'; that would be 'ar' or 'aq'. Anatolian Turkish lacks 'q' and 'gh'. It's not a shift among consonants; they simply CAN'T pronounce 'q'.
 
9 Oghuz, as the name itself says means 'confederation of 9 tribes'. You're right when saying Turkic 'z' was almost always 'r' in old Turkic, but that's for nouns. The 'z' in the word "Oghuz" makes plural; it's not a word; it's not even part of a word.
 
This is really strange for me. In Central Asian dialects, for sure, you can't change the word "oghuz" to 'ghuz' as they do it in Farsi or Arabic. What do you mean by prefix? 9? or something else? By the way, we Turkmens and also all Central Asian dialects (if they would talk about it) still say '9 Oghuz', but not '9 Ghuz'.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 14:39
"Quz" in Turkmen, which is always used by the suffix 'za', means 'to bear'; the job is related to animals.

While 'qu/ky' acts exactly like English 'to' as in 'to go' (Turkic alqu = to take'), 'ghur' is just like English 'ing'. "Alghyr" means 'taking', 'Sylgyr' means 'erasing', "özgür" means 'being sorry' and 'Uighur' means 'joining'. Everywhere in the history, they are described as 'Oghuz' and not 'Oghur'. Even if we consider modern Turkic 'z' is the later change of old Turkic 'r', we should keep in mind that this change is only for words while the 'z' in the word "Oghuz" is not a word, is not part of a word. It only makes plural (one of the ways to make plural in Turkic is to add 'z' or 's').

'Oghuz Qaan' means 'the Khan of the tribes'. Even in the Uighur text about Oghuz Khan's history, that's 'OghuZ Qaghan'.

If you ask any Central Asian what 'Uighur' (or in some dialects üygür; some use üy, so the whole word would be üygür), they would tell you it means 'joining'. 'Uighur', as you know, refers to people who joined 'Oghuz Qaqa' in the battle he had with his father.

Edited by gok_toruk - 20-May-2007 at 14:21
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balain d Ibelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2007 at 22:22
Huns were actually Mongols and Nomaden Turkish (Turcoman), they began to Migrate to Central Asia at 50 B.C., then, in 300 AD they migrated to The Russian Steppes, and, in 440s, led by Attila, they attacked Europe. But after Attila successor (Ellak) died, the Hunnic Empire in the west collapsed and the Huns must retreat back to the steppes.
 
While the Hunnic Yeta Tribes, not like their families, they expanded to India (And a bit part of Persia), their first opponents were not the Hindu Indians, but their first enemies were the Yuezhi tribes which exiled to India after the Huns (NOT the Yeta Huns - The Huns which migrate to the Russian Steppes) attacked them and nearly vanished the Yeuzhi tribes from the Earth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uighur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2007 at 21:25
Originally posted by Rasoolpuri Rasoolpuri wrote:

   What was original homeland of Huns .In which century they migrated from their homeland
    
from what is now eastern turkistan, kazahigistan, kirgistan, turkemistan, and so forth. All the turk countries including Easetern Turksian, the uighurs who stayed the closest to their homeland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2007 at 00:52
One thing that can not be detested, is that the Hun Empire, constitituted an entire Epic, in the history of Rome's complete existence. Probably one of the most important epics, until the reign of Justinian The Great, Emperor of the East.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2007 at 13:30
Originally posted by uighur uighur wrote:

Originally posted by Rasoolpuri Rasoolpuri wrote:

   What was original homeland of Huns .In which century they migrated from their homeland
    
from what is now eastern turkistan, kazahigistan, kirgistan, turkemistan, and so forth. All the turk countries including Easetern Turksian, the uighurs who stayed the closest to their homeland.
 
The native land of Huns is today's China. I very much respect the Turk, but you are not Huns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BAWIR$AQ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2007 at 23:51
Originally posted by huns huns wrote:

The native land of Huns is today's China. I very much respect the Turk, but you are not Huns.

Central Asian Huns (Xiongnu) originated from modern Mongolia and northern China, the ancestral lands of the Turkic peoples.

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"Sacrifice your riches for your life, Sacrifice your life for your honor"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2007 at 00:05
Originally posted by Balian d'Ibelin Balian d'Ibelin wrote:

Huns were actually Mongols and Nomaden Turkish (Turcoman), they began to Migrate to Central Asia at 50 B.C., then, in 300 AD they migrated to The Russian Steppes, and, in 440s, led by Attila, they attacked Europe. But after Attila successor (Ellak) died, the Hunnic Empire in the west collapsed and the Huns must retreat back to the steppes.
 
While the Hunnic Yeta Tribes, not like their families, they expanded to India (And a bit part of Persia), their first opponents were not the Hindu Indians, but their first enemies were the Yuezhi tribes which exiled to India after the Huns (NOT the Yeta Huns - The Huns which migrate to the Russian Steppes) attacked them and nearly vanished the Yeuzhi tribes from the Earth.
 
The Yue Chi (Kushans) didn't vanish, they were simply absorbed.  Same with the Yeta (which I assume you mean Ephtalite) Huns, or Iranian Huns.  These Huns are said to be actually related to the Yue Chih themselves and were probably a branch that were isolated for a period until finally bursting from the Pamir mountains and invading Eastern Iran, Afghanistan, Transoxiana, and Northwestern India.   
 


Edited by Afghanan - 24-Jun-2007 at 00:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kerimoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2007 at 03:33
I very much respect the Turk, but you are not Huns. -Turks are Turks, why we shuld be HUns. It is just when there were not turks, we were Huns
History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2007 at 06:31
Originally posted by huns huns wrote:

Originally posted by uighur uighur wrote:

Originally posted by Rasoolpuri Rasoolpuri wrote:

   What was original homeland of Huns .In which century they migrated from their homeland
    
from what is now eastern turkistan, kazahigistan, kirgistan, turkemistan, and so forth. All the turk countries including Easetern Turksian, the uighurs who stayed the closest to their homeland.
 
The native land of Huns is today's China. I very much respect the Turk, but you are not Huns.


Look a chinese dude LOL
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2007 at 07:58
 
Originally posted by huns huns wrote:

  
 
The native land of Huns is today's China. I very much respect the Turk, but you are not Huns.

 
Believe me, the Chinese history begins there where the history of huns comes to an end.
 
 


Edited by huns - 25-Jun-2007 at 07:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minchickie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 23:50
Quote They, however, called themselves Majars (which was also a Turkic tribe)


I am Hungarians and Magyars are NOT a Turkic tribe. lol. We are a URALIC peoples with our own language. We do not come from turks. Turks liek to claim alot but Magyars are not them. There is no proof even that Huns are Turkic or even North chinese. I believe Huns are also a Uralic people again NOT TURKIC. Hungarians and Turks and Finns are all from Asia but doesnt mean we are all from one Turkic tribe. Before Turks were Mongols and if thats the case them we are all Mongolian!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minchickie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 23:51
fact is HUNS were HUNS. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xiongnu Hun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 05:03
Originally posted by minchickie minchickie wrote:

Quote They, however, called themselves Majars (which was also a Turkic tribe)


I am Hungarians and Magyars are NOT a Turkic tribe. lol. We are a URALIC peoples with our own language. We do not come from turks. Turks liek to claim alot but Magyars are not them. There is no proof even that Huns are Turkic or even North chinese. I believe Huns are also a Uralic people again NOT TURKIC. Hungarians and Turks and Finns are all from Asia but doesnt mean we are all from one Turkic tribe. Before Turks were Mongols and if thats the case them we are all Mongolian!LOL
 
There are many proofs about Hun's Turkicness,read some Turkology books.They come from Xiongnu.
But Magyars are not Turkic,they are Uralic.And their relation with Huns is a little.
And Mongolians are not newer than TurksConfused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 12:08
The Hsiung-nu's wide lands eventually centered from the Tat'ung to the Ordos regions, especially during Motun's reign. Eventually the Northern and Southern branches held different emipires and the south became vassals of the Han. When the Northern Hsiung-nu lost power subordinates such as the Hsien-pi defected south. Some of the Hsiung-nu moved west into the Syr Darya during the second century. Most likely it is these Western Hsiung-nu, who mixed with various locals, that became the Huns. In 160 was the first notice of the Huns around the Aral sea and the Ural region. This process Turkified Inner Eurasia. By the time of the GokTurk empire Turkish language had dominated the central and western steppes.
 
After the demise of the Northern Hsiung-nu, the Chinese described most of her border neighbors as Hsien-pi. They were once part of the Hsiung-nu empire but were originally from Manchuria. They were part of a Tung-hu confederations that was defeated by Motun the Hsiung-nu. The language of the Hsien-pi was closely related to later Mongolian and Kitan.
 
The ethnic name 'Mongol' was actually a much later creation during the pre-reign of Cengiz Khan. However, earlier forms of Mongolian were spoken along with earlier forms of Turkish at the time of the Hsiung-nu.
 
The designation "Hu" refers to 'Horse riding barbarians' in Chinese. Having already mentioned the Hsiung-nu, we can now look at the others. The Tung-hu were 'eastern barbarians' around modern day eastern Mongolia. The Yeuh-chih dominated the Kansu region. Eventually most tribal affiliations were dilluted under the banner of one governing clan yet with multi ethnic peoples. Further to the west were the Ting-ling (Dingling) and later the T-ieh-le, who are linked to the Turkic Oghurs.
 
The course of all of these peoples had an influence over the next millenium. As the Turko (Hsiung-nu) and part of her Mongols (Hsien-pi) moved west into Iran they gathered more peoples and were later known as the Chionites. This name is the precurser to what europeans know as Huns.
 
Later during Khazar power there had been Ugric speaking groups which had bordered her lands. These groups had picked up Turk culture, the most famous being the Magyars. With pressure from the Pechenegs, the Magyars moved further west into lands of the previous land owners,Hun's and then Avars. In the late 10'th century the Magyars established a durable state of Hungary and converted to Christianity in 1000ad under Stephan (Istvan).
 
It would be an act of folly to politicize these events for the sake of nationalist gain. Historical resources should be debated for the sake of validity and reliability. The names of various tribes are recorded by those who kept them (Chinese, Greek and Persians). I hope I cleared the air regarding some of the original locations of the tribes in question. I'm sure many of our members have access to resources and can produce a more detailed description than I.
 
 
Copyright © 2004 Seko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ariston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 03:42
We cannot consider Russia as one big nation. There are are hundreds of small different people groups. Slavic, Finno-Ugrian, Turkic, Mongolic etc...

http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/introduction.shtml

But if we think the heart of Russian area around Moscow to St.Petersburg (European Russia):

The Kyivan "Rus Chronicles" which contain the famous "Povist Vremenykh Lit" by Nestor tells very clearly that the Russian nation is descended primarily from Finno-Ugric tribes and not Slavic tribes. These Finno-Ugric tribes are identified as the Chud, Ves, Meria, Muroma, Cheremysy, Mordva, Perm, Pechera, Yam, Zymyhola, Kors, Narova, and Lib. These Finno-Ugric tribes were the indigenous tribes which lived in the area which is now European Russia into which the Slavic tribes of Slovenes and Kryvychi slowly pressed in and eventually became absorbed. It was only because of Kyiv's suzerainty over this small area of today's Russia that the Finno-Ugrians were Slavicized and Christianized and eventually became the heart of what is today Russia, but what was then called at first Suzdalia-Vladimir and later Muscovia. The subsequent rule of the Mongols over this area had according to some Russian historians as much or greater impact on the Russian culture and psyche than did the period of Kyivan rule. These Slavicized Finno-Ugrians at first were called Muscovites during the Mongol rule and later during the reign of Peter I changed their name to Russians. The southern Slavic people (Ukranians) still call northern Russian people as Finno-Ugors or/and Muscovites.

This is what geneticists from the Magadan Institute of Biological Problems of the North tell us; they have learnt that the succession of Russians from the Novgorod Oblast is most distinctive. This is brought about by the close vicinity of the Finnish-Ugorsk peoples, who, from time immemorial when the ancient population was formed, have had a noticeable influence.

Scientists conducted their research in Novgorod Veliki and the Volot settlement, on the border between the Novgorod and Pskov oblasts. They took blood samples from 80 volunteers from each populated location, Russians from the mother's side in a minimum of two generations. From the collected blood samples they isolated mitochondrial DNA and looked for genes in this DNA, which is spread among the populations of various regions of Eurasia. It transpires that individual groups of genes found in the residents of Novgorod, are a characteristic feature not of Russians, but for the Northern Finno-Ugorsk people of Eastern Europe - the Finns, Udmurts, Maris, and Komi-Zyryan. This means that these and other peoples like them played a part at some time in the creation of the population on Novgorod soil. However the genetic influence of Novgorod people on Russians from other regions is not that similar. The research has shown that residents of Volot are clearly distinguished from the Stavropol and Kursk populations, while the population of Novgorod Veliki is clearly distinguished from that of the Krasnodar and Stavropol districts and of the Kursk and Kostroma oblasts.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ariston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 04:36
Sorry, previous post got to wrong topic!
Should be -> Russians are Finns?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 15:41
Originally posted by Ariston Ariston wrote:

Russians are Finns?
Russian are slaves(or slav)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kerimoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 17:41
U know, once one armenian Historian told that Gruzin comes from Gruz which means load in Russian, and that means Georgians were Porters of Russians and Armenians. This is how Mr. Hun is critisizing. After all of those facts, he simply refuses accepting that we, Turks, are the very descendants of Huns. I know buddy, this hurts a lot, but if u read at least Rene Grousset, Gumilyov, Babcock, the book "Turkish World", the book by Oxford - "the Fall of The Roman Empire" you will get information from foreign authors that huns actually our ancestors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plus-the-best Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2007 at 15:05
Hi all, I'm chechen. I wish to tell, you will see all who such Huns, Alans, Khazars and  who posessed empire Chzhou and Qin(huns or chine) when Russia will be destroyed as Rome.
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