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Forum LockedHow would albanian sound to a non-ethnic?

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centurion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote centurion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 18:00
What has happened with the original topic? This is a forum about the Albanian language .......or the Macedonian problems?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 13:53
Originally posted by theMacedonian theMacedonian wrote:

 
When the slavs came down to settle in Macedonia, they mixed with the peoples that wore alredy here( ancient Macedonians).

 And when i say mixed i mean 50%-50% or 40%-60% not 95%-5% (get it so far?)
 



The people who were there were the ancient Macedonians? In 600-650 AD?
I doubt there was anyone there feeling nationaly Macedonian (and not "Roman"-Byzantine),
having different religion than the rest of the citizens of Byzantine empire (Orthodox instead of Pagan slavs)
and speaking other language than koene Greek.

If u think that Alexander's children were hanging around in that time ,well u must think it again.

Also,if u think that it would be rational for someone who:
-lived in his "homeland",
-inside the borders of his state,
-spokea language written for 1500 years,used by public officers,
-had his own land,
-hada higher level of technical development,
-believed in a monotheistic religion with organized church,

would abandon all this and get mixed with some people who:
-were "new-comers",
-were living inside the borders of a foreign empire
-at first didnt have land,
-were speaking an non-written language,
-had lower level of technical development,
-living in mud-huts(at first),
-believing in some pagan religion

and in a proportion up to 50-50 % (how did u come up with this percentege..not much scientific way i guess),

,rather than being assimilated by the dominant "Romans",
then think iy some more time Smile




Edited by Brainstorm - 25-Oct-2006 at 13:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 13:34
Originally posted by Patrinos Patrinos wrote:

because as i see it the greeks of modern greece are not exactly the ancient ones (whell atleast most of them that is).
Where did you see that???
 
 
what makes a Macedonian?
 
Of course not only the place you live,Americans aren't Apache just because they live in America...
The traditions,the continuous history etc and of course the language. A language which is descedant of the language Alexander himself spread to all over the world.
Don't be afraid we don't have any territorial claims.Its our right to defend our history and symbols.
 
Answer to my previous questions and don't avoid them...
 
 
Apaches ate bizons and worshiped Manitu, whereas modern americans eat hamburgers and worship green banknotes [JOKINGLY (sic!)].
Patrinos, can you point me to any tradition known in Ancient Macedonia that persisted in Modern Greeks but not Modern Slavomacedonians?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 11:53

Ok so you say cal my self a panonian-slav not a macedonian?

mmm good point by why dont you look at maps prior 1912 u know nder the turkis rule... if u dont have one ill provide u with one.

Ok we all know alexander III had graeat archer... i wonder where they came from... ohhhh yes the previously conqured and assimilated panonians... dont you think this is so?

Hehehe i dont mention the panonians because they wore alredy part of the macedonian culture and life... and + teritorial scares are not my reagon ... just dont mentione it or i will be forced to stray away from the toppic...

Dont make teritorial claims... u have enough as it is...

sorry to all moderators but i was forced in this argument.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:54
because as i see it the greeks of modern greece are not exactly the ancient ones (whell atleast most of them that is).
Where did you see that???
 
 
what makes a Macedonian?
 
Of course not only the place you live,Americans aren't Apache just because they live in America...
The traditions,the continuous history etc and of course the language. A language which is descedant of the language Alexander himself spread to all over the world.
Don't be afraid we don't have any territorial claims.Its our right to defend our history and symbols.
 
Answer to my previous questions and don't avoid them...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:31

My feelings about my ancestors arre clear even in my nickname... but since u insist

My beginings wore ancient Macedonians,
My middle age granfathers wore macedonians,
My dad is macedonian
and so am I... I am a Macedonian and i freely declare that.

If you belive this ist so... then tell me
what makes a Macedonian?
and tell me What claims do you have about you being "macedonian" and using the macedonian symbols(if u used them for other reasons, such as meaning of power and unity then u dont have to answer the last question).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:26

hahah bulgarians by the way are not my brothers and never will be. I deny any similarities with them... even the so called "slavic line" and dont offend me like that.. because as i see it the greeks of modern greece are not exactly the ancient ones (whell atleast most of them that is).

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 08:57
So your bulgarian brothers speak too the "macedonian" language?
Why don't you claim that you are slav-paionian?? The majority of your land was Paionian. Don't you like the name??Tongue
I have too some unanswered questions.
Alexander named his horse Bucephalas,if he didn't sppek greek why he named his horse with a greek name?? Where did he learn greek,ion TV?
What do the names Alexandros,Philip, Kleopatra, Perdikas, Balakros, Antigonos, mean in your language???????
Thanks LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 08:15
theMacedonian can you give straight answers in your  below claim please
 
Originally posted by theMacedonian theMacedonian wrote:

As a Macedonian my ancestors accepted the slavic language when they came about and mixed.
 
What language spoken and who are your ancestors ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 01:18
And yes shore ... slvic does not comply with Macedonian... bla bla
 
But
 
wridlle me this:
 
Why in the Macedonian language that i speak, we have so many songs about Macedonians, Macedonia and so forth.
These songs a written way before "propaganda" came out and have been sung among Macedonians for as long as we can remember. Infact i can bet u (procetige wize) Macedonians have written more songs about Macedonia then any other nation, has written sonsg about themselfs.
 
So tell me how many Greek songs of today and previus centuries, sing about the grateness of Macedonia and its Peoples?
 
Make a note that villigers(where most of the songs originated) wore never under political presure and they always sang what they felt. They felt Macedonians for a reason, because of a connection, and there is no denying that.
 
I think we shoul even open a forum aboout this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 01:09
Whell thought one man... Noone in the Balkans knows thwir ansestry... thats a fact.
 
But you say you are a greek and I say i'm a Macedonian. Its that simple.
 
When the slavs came down to settle in Macedonia, they mixed with the peoples that wore alredy here( ancient Macedonians). And when i say mixed i mean 50%-50% or 40%-60% not 95%-5% (get it so far?)
 
The trouth behind this is just look at me, I dont deni that i have slavic genes but i will never step down from my Macedonian ancestry. I have bowth slavic and Macedonian geans and you can see it on me.
 
The thing is that u deni anithing. there was a gene test a cuple years back but i never saw results.
 
One example
We speak a slavic dialect
but we have christianity from the Ancient Macedonians.
 
We still have side by side Ancient Macedonian Names used for todays names of people (usualy of rivers and regions) and we have slavic names.
 
I jus dont get it...
Does this mean that im half Macedonian half slavic
or am i Half Greek half slavic?
I know my theory but what do you think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 13:36
Originally posted by theMacedonian theMacedonian wrote:

As a Macedonian my ancestors accepted the slavic language when they came about and mixed.
 
What language spoken and who are your ancestors ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 13:18
Quote I believe that the 15% of difference is due to the fact that prof. Trifone (who is the Director of the School of Linguistics at the University of Siena, near Florence) includes even the words that are phonetically loanworded from a previous language borrowing.
Let me explain in plain English:


I was thinking the samething. But more along the line of the recent decades "Italianization" of the Albanian dialect from Tirana, not alone but also English.

My only problem is that this should be distinguished from the latin borrowings from the ages. These inheritances are morphed to begin with(being changed to English) then transfer to Albanian... They are not direct Latin borrowings.
    
My main concern was actually on the discussion going on before, Albanian historical connection to latin.

Edited by Theodore Felix - 24-Oct-2006 at 13:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 12:54
Hehehe oks this is how it goes. I lived in Macedonia right untill last year, i lived in a part of Macedonia where no albanians live, so my contacts with albanians wore rare. But still not that often i would hear an albanian speak and when he did the language does not sound turkis.
I dont know how you got to that conclusion but Albanian in no chance sounds turkis(by the way i also happen to have turkish friends)
 
If u say that Albanian sounds turkis because it has a few turkis words than heheh ur kidding ur selfs.
As a Macedonian my ancestors accepted the slavic language when they came about and mixed.
But when the turks came that same language adopted alot of turkis words.
 
SO ima a Macedonian, speeking Macedonian but my native dialect still contains turkis words only adopted for the easines of our thoung. So we have Macedonain words... but we also tend to use every now and then a turkis word. Im talking about the Macedonian dialect spoken in South-Eastern Macedonia.
 
cya later
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote centurion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 12:06
Originally posted by GoldenBlood GoldenBlood wrote:



if Albanian language had more 50% (non-albanian influences) evropian scholar didn't classify 1 on 8 Branch secluded of Indo-European...

 
 
The English language has more loanwords from Latin -directly or indirectly(through the French, Italian, Spanish, etc..) than Albanian.  This fact, that 58% of the English words are borrowed from Latin, does not "seclude" the classification of the English as a German language.    The same happens with the Albanian language, with the 55% of the albanian words borrowed from Latin -directly or indirectly (through the Italian, French, Venetian, Neapolitan, Vlach, etc..), as Prof. Trifone wrote in 1998, after a two years field-research in Albania. 
 
Of course there are as many linguistic opinions as there are scholars, so some scholars can argue that there are only 40% of loanworded words from Latin in the Albanese language - as states the forumer Theodore Felix.
I believe that the 15% of difference is due to the fact that prof. Trifone (who is the Director of the School of Linguistics at the University of Siena, near Florence) includes even the words that are phonetically loanworded from a previous language borrowing.
Let me explain in plain English: 
1) There are many albanian words loanworded from English, like the words "manager" or "management". 
But these famous english words are loanworded originally from the italian merchants of the Renaissance. Actually, "management" comes from the italian "maneggiamento" that in renaissance lombard dialect is phonetically said "manegmen", because the italian "mano" means in english "hand" and so management =handlement.
2) Furthermore, there are many loanworded words that are syncopated and are difficult to realize from where they are borrowed.  For example, CAPITAL = CAPut ITALiae or head of Italy in syncopated Latin.
But during the Renaissance the word "capital" was extended to the financial area, so when K. Marx wrote his famous "Kapital" in German, he was using a word loaworded from Latin. That word was tranferred to Albanian to define the "Kapitalism", so hated by the Albanese dictator Hoxha.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2006 at 18:19
I do not believe the percentage of latin is that high. I would say it would probably be around 40%(this is from personal experience with the language). The most significant aspect of the language, but it cannot be the vast majority of the language
8% slavic does sound reasonable indeed.(the further north in Albania you get I would assume the more slavic influence)
I do not know what to make of the 14% Greek influence. Maybe depending on the area. If measured by Tosk dialect of Tirana, I would say about right. But this is keeping in mind that Tirana dialect is vast majority Tosk.
Turkish has attributed some minor prefixes and suffixes, many of them today have fallen into local "slur" adjectives("Luk" is the best example).

Edited by Theodore Felix - 23-Oct-2006 at 18:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2006 at 17:58
what funny :S

8% Slavic? wow this is hilarous...we have not slavic words (maybe 30-40 words)
Same with greek language 11%...hilarous
55% latin this is joke :D


Albanian language study thausands scholar evropian, american ect. they said Albanian language has only 12-13% (Latin,Turkish,Greek influence) and others 87-88% are albanian words...

if Albanian language had more 50% (non-albanian influences) evropian scholar didn't classify 1 on 8 Branch secluded of Indo-European...

Even some great evropian scholar Albanian classfied the olddest language of Europe and World
Kosova dhe Ilirida, pjese te Dardanise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote centurion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 10:29
Originally posted by Patrinos Patrinos wrote:

Which is the percentage of foreign words in albanian vocabulary (latin, slavic,greek,turkish etc)?
 
According to prof. Trifone (an italian scholar) :
55%   Latin
11%     Greek
8%     Slavic (serb, macedonian, montenegrin, bulgarian, etc.)
1%     Turkish
The remainig 25% is original Illyrian (with Dacian roots, etc..)
 
In the Gheg areas (mainly around the coastal zone of Skutar) the percentage of Latin is higher (around 70%)  and practically there is no presence of Greek vocabulary.
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 12:33
Which is the percentage of foreign words in albanian vocabulary (latin, slavic,greek,turkish etc)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maria d. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 22:10
Here it is the map of Skanderberg timesMaria D.
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