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Forum LockedHow much of pakistan was part of Afghanistan?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2008 at 04:10
Originally posted by maqsad maqsad wrote:



That sounds ridiculous. The genetics of Afghanistan clearly show a high admixture of siberio-mongoloid genes. Have you ever actually met more than a dozen Afghans in your life?

what Genetic of Afghanistan? When was a genetic study was done in Afghanistan? Don't tell me you carry a genetic study of Afghanistan last name. A genetic study of Pashton of occupation pashtonistan was carried that shows no Mongolian genes.

 


 


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Popalzai and Sadozai(not zia) are just tribal affiliations. Nobody in their right minds can say that the members of these tribes(which are spread over hundreds of miles) have a common heritage and no outside admixture. But let me guess, you are proposing that, am I right?

 

When you pronounce pashto...specially Kandhari pashto the zie is pronounce as zai(E) like ppl say Karzai but native speaker pronounce it Karzee. Anyways we are not talking about purity of Pashton/Afghan race but we are discussing the norm--generally--majority pashton look.

 




Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:

 

bawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa now this is what i call trying to pulling aces form....     but no one can deny that the reason Sikh looks different then rest of Indic people is because armies of various kings from Afghanistan were roaming the plan of Punjabs for over thousands years.


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Hold on a second here, if the armies of various kings from Afghanistan were roaming the plains of punjab for thousands of years then should the sikhs not have at least as much mongol admixture as central afghans?  Let me repeat the question for you once again. You say that the Sikhs look like Afghans because of thousands of years of admixture from Afghan armies, right? Ok assuming this is true then why do we not see any mongol looking sikhs and why do we see so many mongol/siberian looking pashtuns? Forget about the hazaras now I am just talking regular afghan/pashtuns now. Because according to your simple logic if Afghans were mixing with punjabis for thousands of years then punjabis should get some of that mongol blood passed to them also but we don't see any evidence of that. Wait--did all those afghan kings selectively leave behind the siberian/mongol looking soldiers before they went to roam the punjab? LOL

 
What mangolian?  here compare the pashton DNA/Gene to that of Hazara and try to find that of Punjbians and see it for youself.
Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in Pakistan http://download.ajhg.org/AJHG/pdf/PIIS0002929707625075.pdf

As for as Sikh are you denying the general Sikhs are Indic people?  where those light skin and afghanian looking Sikh come from? hu? mars? or Angreez had something to do with it? lol

 
 
 
Quote
 

LOL you have no idea about Sikh history nor do you know which parts of Asia all of them came from, do you?

 
they are sick so... i wish them health! Big%20smile


[QUOTE]

I really don't know what you have been reading and smoking but lets just take only 3 of the ethnic groups of Afghanistan.


Pashtuns--they have tried to secede as pashtunistan from Afghanistan and join with parts of Western pakistan and form a pashtun homeland.


Tajiks--we know there have been secessionist movements which want to dump the pakhtuns and unite Tajikistan, Herat, parsiwan areas(mainly some cities) of Afghanistan including Hazara areas.


Uzbeks--give me a break, these people are refugees and would unite with uzbekistan in a heartbeat. Only reason they stuck on in Afghanistan was to gain more power against pashtun domination and to expand their pan turkic sphere. Dostum ring a bell?



Heratis--do I even need to say anything here? They are already being taken over by Iran as I write this. Not really an ethnic group.

puffffffffffff and would u tell me when there was a separatist movement of uzbak? tajik? and others? hu? did u pull that from... ... lol even during the civil war there was no talk of division and yet…massod fight until last drop of his blood for Afghan name not for Tajik or anything… the same holds for Islmail khan and so on.. Dostom on other hand is a dog but even a dog like him will not dare to talk about division…cause he will know that will be his last day on earth.  

So sorry to break you Indic heart…we simple do not have had BLA or Pashtonsitan liberation army…or Sindi Deish or Sarkai…

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2008 at 06:08
So? We went to India before 65 and 71, to get such assurance. The reason Zahir Shah said what he said was far less a desire not stab as muslim brother, and far more with the fact that he had to face 3 divisions plus FC not to mention Pakistans main airbase at Peshawar.
 
And what the hell are you talking about useless toys. Where is you source? Pakistan provides upto 70% of Afghanistans grain, and it is not considered export rather, it is reserved for Afghanistan and sold at a lower price than in Pakistan. As for the agreement with Iran, more power to that. The less we have to do with the basketcase that is Afghanistan the better.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2008 at 12:12
Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:

Originally posted by maqsad maqsad wrote:



That sounds ridiculous. The genetics of Afghanistan clearly show a high admixture of siberio-mongoloid genes. Have you ever actually met more than a dozen Afghans in your life?

what Genetic of Afghanistan? When was a genetic study was done in Afghanistan? Don't tell me you carry a genetic study of Afghanistan last name. A genetic study of Pashton of occupation pashtonistan was carried that shows no Mongolian genes.



I am just using my own eyes. You want me to provide pictures now? Do you actually deny the altaic admixture in non-hazara afghans? Shocked
 

Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:


Quote


Popalzai and Sadozai(not zia) are just tribal affiliations. Nobody in their right minds can say that the members of these tribes(which are spread over hundreds of miles) have a common heritage and no outside admixture. But let me guess, you are proposing that, am I right?

 

When you pronounce pashto...specially Kandhari pashto the zie is pronounce as zai(E) like ppl say Karzai but native speaker pronounce it Karzee. Anyways we are not talking about purity of Pashton/Afghan race but we are discussing the norm--generally--majority pashton look.

 



Hahaha if that is so then why did you spell  one  zai like zai and the other zai like zia  two words after it? LOL

No I am not talking about the purity of the pashton race at first but when you insist that Sikhs and Punjabis look like they look because of Afghan armies(and not trickle immigration) then I will ask you a very legitimate question---if most pashtons in Afghanistan have an altaic bone structure, or traces of it, then why do none of the sikhs who "look like afghans because of afghan armies roaming the punjab" according to you...why do these sikhs not have altaic features also?

What's next, you are going to deny that Kyrgyzistan has no altaic admixture? Wink

Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:

  

puffffffffffff and would u tell me when there was a separatist movement of uzbak? tajik? and others? hu? did u pull that from... ... lol even during the civil war there was no talk of division and yet…massod fight until last drop of his blood for Afghan name not for Tajik or anything… the same holds for Islmail khan and so on.. Dostom on other hand is a dog but even a dog like him will not dare to talk about division…cause he will know that will be his last day on earth.  

So sorry to break you Indic heart…we simple do not have had BLA or Pashtonsitan liberation army…or Sindi Deish or Sarkai…



Lol so you admit dostum would reject pashtun domination in a heartbeat and either secede or join Uzbekistan. After all that is why he killed a few trucks worth of talibs right? Which you afghan nationalists tried to pass off as all pakis to hide the dirty truth! Clap

Also do I need to remind you how easily parts of Afghanistan have been chopped off and taken by Iran and Russia? I mean right now in front of your noses Herat is being taken away from you by Iran without even firing a single shot! Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2008 at 12:17
Originally posted by True Afghan True Afghan wrote:

You should read Musharaf book…he attest that soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a god’s gift to Pakistan. it change Pakistan luck both financially and geo-politically.

As for as export and important the only that comes from Pakistan is plastic toys and cheap Desi useless products… while almost all of Afghanistan’s exports goes under Pakistan name…just last year Pakistan profited $200 million dollars from afghan carpet exports which is lebeled with “made in Pakistan” stickers. The good news is that this all is about to change…Chakhabur will provide a alternating sea access to Afghanistan and central asia…if bloody soviet had not invaded this would have happen long ago… the Shah of Iran was the one that purpose this to Afghanistan.

Let us just hope that IRA falls asap…the geo-politic of region will change.



Hahahahahaahahahahaahahaha that's funny. First of all the #1 export of Afghanistan to and through pakistan is opium and heroin. This is handled entirely by the pashtun mafia and the CIA and maybe some of their collaborators in the ISI and the pakistani govt gets nothing out of it.  That accounts for 1/3 the GDP of Afghanistan according to the world bank and the IMF. Next form of easy money for Afghans is smuggling. You have heard about places like Karkhano and Barra I imagine right, Mr. Expert?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 09:03
paki moderators with hiddenagenda and paki propoganda machine runs this forum, red clay is also a paki  and  he is the supporter of pakistani viewpoint ,indian(hindu,muslim)  bashing is the sole purpose of this site.only paki views are supported ,or islamic fundamentalism is supported here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 09:54
Pakistani propaganda machine has taken over an internet forum? Wow, this is the second greatest accomplishement ever, right behind having one or two people tune in to the news on state TV,
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2008 at 20:19

Television has soo changed in Pakistan, there's like 40+ channels on basic tv.. such a change from just 10 years ago!  We even have regional languages too, definately a step in the right direction :)

Going back to the point of this forum, there was a special on AVT Khyber (Pashto language television) showing how several ancient Afghan colonies(Arghun) are still to be found in northern Sindh province and came to rule over the vast area.  On the show before that, they did a special on the Afghan(Pashtun) tribes that came to dominate Lahore and some that established Dynasties in Kasur.  According to what I can gather from this documentary, and what history tells us, A considerable portion of Pakistan has at one point or another been part of Afghanistan if not ruled and colonized by them directly. 
Even now, if you look at population shifts from the tribal areas and other Pashtun(Afghan) areas of Pakistan, they can maintain only a limited population, when one tribes numbers exceeds a certain limit or resources get scarce leading to inter-tribal feuds, there is a natural process of migration eastwards towards the fertile plains and river beds of the Indus (Sindh/Panjab) and the Peshawer Valley which runs eastward to join the Indus again which are areas that can sustain large populations.  Infact, most of Pakistan's population arch is along these very areas.
 
Also, I think, if recent history is any indicator, it seems that stability in one country is directly tied to stability in the other which shows that there is still considerable linkage between the two countries despite being officially and politically two seperate places. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2008 at 14:54
First of all my regards to all fellow members and old friends afterward as far as the main topic is concerned I would just say (not starting a flame war) that the Afghan Empire streched up till Indus River, while the rest part of current Pakistan was a come-go state which was taken by Afghans and then reTaken by sikhs over time several times.
 
As far as Ahmad Shah Baba is concerned I would like to just add that he was a pashtun whose family was settled in Multan then a part of Khorasan-e-Kabeer (Current day Afghanistan) and I don't think that if some one is born in a Hindu Village he has to be a Hindu, or if someone is born in a Muslim village he has to be a muslim.
Same goes with ones ethnic it doesn't matter if a Khattack is born in Islamabad, he still will be a Pashtun Khattack, same goes with Ahmad Shah Baba.
 
As a good example we can take Joseph Stalin, who was born in the City of Gori (now a part of Georgia) but was the supream leader of Russian Empire and still is known as an Russian leader, not an Georgian leader.
So I guess all friends have got my point.
 
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

The reason Zahir Shah said what he said was far less a desire not stab as muslim brother, and far more with the fact that he had to face 3 divisions plus FC not to mention Pakistans main airbase at Peshawar.
 
Dear Sparten,
First of all nice to read your topics after a long while, and I would like to just point out to you that "Where there is a will there is a way", so I don't really think that those 3 divisions were the main cause... if that was the case then now that the ENTIRE PAKISTAN ARMY (apxt. 500,000) is on the border, why can't they stop the So Called Terrorists from getting in to Pakistani soul and and then using their own soul against them (Pakistani) .
 
I am sure you got the point what I wanted to say.......


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2008 at 19:30
Gharani maara is nice to see you back. Gharani,. there is a big difference between an insurgency which a country and a military is divided over, and a conventional war. Incidentally Pakistan has 4 divisions in FATA/Frontier, the two which are always stationed there and two additional, out of about 25 in total in the PA.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2008 at 21:06
@ Sparten
Yes dear nice to read of you as well and thanks for the info/tip of 4 divs.
Dear what I ment was that then Zahir Shah could had done the same like what is going on right now. I am sure you pretty much know the Tribal people who mostly will go against anyone who tries to occupy them, but not against another brother of themselve.
I mean I am sure that majority of Tribal people are divided in to Afghanistan and FATA, one brother at one side and the other at other side of the line.
 
So it would had been very much easy for Zahir Shah who had more influence then the current government in the Tribal Area, to bring Pakistan to a chaos within its on limits and without any conventional war......
 
While more then half of PA was on Indian border and as you yourself mentioned there were only two divisions then ....... as compared to 4 of them now (who has totaly lost its credibality to the Nation and the World).... So things then would had been much much more easier.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2008 at 21:23
Dear Harramulla Sulla,
I didn't get your point of quoting me for your words that are directed to Sparten.
So can you please solve the confusion?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2008 at 11:27
Originally posted by isami isami wrote:

paki moderators with hiddenagenda and paki propoganda machine runs this forum, red clay is also a paki  and  he is the supporter of pakistani viewpoint ,indian(hindu,muslim)  bashing is the sole purpose of this site.only paki views are supported ,or islamic fundamentalism is supported here.
 
 
I must have missed this. Big%20smile I'm honored.   Does this make me an honorary Pakistani? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2008 at 14:23
Actually I missed it too in my haste to connect the dots between Harramulla Sulla and one previously known violater of the same ilk (Could it be the same guy? Yup!).
 
Well, if all you gotta do is to be suspected of having a hidden agenda by certain banned members, then sign me up as an honorary Pakistani too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2008 at 18:17

Anyways back to the subject.  There was no "Afghanistan" in 1747 if we are to be judging just by Nationalist states.  In 1747, Ahmad Shah Durrani took over what is now Pakistan and parts of India.  In 1919, when the name "Afghanistan" became official, Pakistan was forming its own national awareness from Britain.

Historically there never was a border between the people since the same people occupy both sides of the border.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 20:47
Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

 In 1919, when the name "Afghanistan" became official, Pakistan was forming its own national awareness from Britain.

I totaly aggree with your view but what I didn't get was "Quoted".
I mean the word Afghanistan came to existance ever since Ahmad Shah Baba formed alliance between the tribes living in the region and named it Afghanistan.
 
In 1919 Ghazi Amanullah Khan got the Independence from the British after wich the influence of Britains in Afghan policies were terminated, and it's the day that Afghans celebrate as Independence day not Nations Birthday.
 
And as you know unlike Pakistan whose Independence day is it's birthday, Afghanistan had a 172 years of existance on the world map, on the day it got its independence from Britains, which happened again in 1989 and......


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 22:04

The British called Afghanistan simply as the "Afghan Frontier"  The Russians, Iranians, and British called the Western Portion "Khorassan"

The actual name Afghanistan was officially applied by Abdur Rahman Khan.  When did Ahmad Shah Baba refer to his empire as "Afghanistan"  I'd like to know because I don't have a copy of his autobiography that was written by his Courtly scribe, a Sikh man, who's name I forget..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 22:22
Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

The British called Afghanistan simply as the "Afghan Frontier"  The Russians, Iranians, and British called the Western Portion "Khorassan"

The actual name Afghanistan was officially applied by Abdur Rahman Khan.  When did Ahmad Shah Baba refer to his empire as "Afghanistan"  I'd like to know because I don't have a copy of his autobiography that was written by his Courtly scribe, a Sikh man, who's name I forget..
 
You have a point with your words but can you tell me "When didn't he refer Afghanistan as Afghanistan???"
I don't know if you believe the online data or not but for your referal I am attaching a CIA Fact Book Page, which tells that;"Ahmad Shah DURRANI unified the Pashtun tribes and founded Afghanistan in 1747. "(by usage of word founded, it referes that word Afghanistan was founded ever since, not current Afghanistan).
 
On the other hand as far as the Britains are concerned, you are telling the fact your self. I mean for sure there was a country by the NAME of Afghanistan which made the Britains make a possessive adjective called AFGHAN (Afghan Front).
And I am sure that you do know, STAN means ( (د دريدو(اوسيدو) ځای، جای ايست(بودباش ، standing (staying)place).
So AFGHAN STAN (place where Afghans stay) and AFGHAN (an adjective showing someone something possessed by Afghanistan, like Afghan Airlines, Afghan Army, Army Team etc.).
 
Now I would like to see if you have anything which shows that Dur-e-Duran didn't call his country Afghanistan...
 
P.S:
I know in English Grammar possessive adjective are ("my," "your," "his," "her," "its," "our," "their"), but in modern terminology of English Grammar Nationality is dealt the same. Ex. My Car, Afghan Car.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2008 at 07:27

Well again, I wouldnt go by that source.  The best source would be his autobiography, and what was written by courtly scribes of the time in India.  I know that when Ahmad Shah took the Moghul empire, he was considered one fo the last Moghul kings and had rings and coins minted in his name. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheeta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2009 at 10:29
One thing is obvious about the Nationalists of Afghan who claim many lands to be the part of the country Afghanistan. Afghanistan is the mountainous barren region that lies between Kabul and Peshawar. The country named today as Afghanistan is a political name and not is really named as Afghanistan ever in history. Neither Peshawar nor Kabul were ever included in Afghanistan. There were three provinces in the last Indian empire under the Delhi government ; Kabul, Qandahar and Herat. It was later when British government marked the boundary of India at Durand line, being the greater part of the Afghan population the country was named as Afghanistan. To be more keen to know the Ghiljis or Khiljis who live in the south east of Afghanistan are the Turkish tribes who have turned Afghans being in the region have been till date the ruling class of Afghanistan since one and half century. Afghanistan is itself a hilly belt between Kabul and Peshawar running south to Suleiman hills and ending in the north touching Hindu Kush.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 01:24
^^ above does not make any sense, nor has any historical correlation...
 
@ Gharanai & Afghanan,
 
The term Afghan should be quite ancient, especially when factoring in the tradition of Qais Rashid, Afghana etc...
 
So whats the verdict, when is the first mention of the term ''Afghanistan'' in history.
 
Vis-A-Vis this thread(How much of pakistan was part of Afghanistan), thought I would add this map which shows that basically the modern day country of Pakistan was part of Afghanistan:
 


Edited by MarcoPolo - 23-Jan-2009 at 01:26
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