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Forum LockedHow is Tamerlane related to Genghis Khan?

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theauxphou View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theauxphou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How is Tamerlane related to Genghis Khan?
    Posted: 23-Oct-2005 at 09:42

Hi,

I read in a book that Tamerlane was Genghis's great-grandson, but is this actually true or just a story Tamerlane invented to give himself credibility which has been accepted as fact throughout the years or are bookwriters just not doing their research?


If anyone has further information on this I'd appreciate knowing more..


Thanks

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Feramez View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2005 at 13:10
I don't think there is much proof for this.  From what I know this is a claim that only he made.  I think he was Turk, but back then and even today, many Turks in Central Asia may actually really be of Mongol decent.  Either way he was one of the best leaders for the Turks or Mongols.  I wonder if Mongols even consider him Mongol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yan. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2005 at 11:25

Didn't Timur marry a descendant of Chinggis?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2005 at 12:56
yes he did, to legitimize his rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2005 at 13:29
I have read that he was a Turkicised Mongol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2005 at 16:44
According to the wikipedia:

Quote His father Teragai was head of the tribe of Barlas, a nomadic tribe that traced its origin to the Mongol commander Qarachar Barlas. Teragai was the great-grandson of Karachar Nevian and, distinguished among his fellow-clansmen as the first convert to Islam, Teragai might have assumed the high military rank which fell to him by right of inheritance; but like his father Burkul he preferred a life of retirement and study.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kuralas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2005 at 12:53
Hi,
Tamerlane was from Barlas clan. Genghis Khan was kiyat (kiyat-kuralas). But both clans are nirun. The niruns were turkic clans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SaikhaNBayar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 10:56

Quote Timur claimed direct descent from Jenghiz Khan through the house of Chagatai. He was born at Kesh (the Green city), about fifty miles south of Sarmarkand in 1336, a son of a lesser chief of the Barlas tribe

Quote He was the son of a chief in the Barlas tribe, one of the many Mongol tribes which had made up the hordes of Chingiz Khan (1162 -1227) and which had been subsequently Turkicised as a result of the strong Turkic element in the Mongol armies

kuralas saying Nirun (nuruun in mongol language) were turkic... but u will find many proofs that Ju Jans were mongol clans.">http://users.rcn.com/web-czar/timur.htm

I don`t know why member kuralas saying Nirun (nuruun in mongol language) were turkic... but u will find many proofs that Ju Jans were mongol clans...
Quote In turn the Tobas were defeated by the Nirun, who were forced to hand the state over to Turkic tribes who established the Tureg Kingdom in Mongolia 552 AD

http://mongoliansteppe.mine.nu/mongolia.php

The 800th Anniversary of the Great Mongolian State. 2006
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlbinoAlien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 11:36
Originally posted by yan. yan. wrote:

Didn't Timur marry a descendant of Chinggis?

ahh!!! incest...that is if hes right! maybe we can figure this out if we find out whether incest was considered alright in the steppes during this time period.

people are the emotions of other people


(im not albino..or pale!)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 15:50
The only connection I have heard between the 2 is that they had 1 common descendant in Babur, the Afgan warrior who invaded India in 1526, toppling the Dehli Sultanate, and establishing the Mughal Empire.

Babur claimed (and I do not know if this has been legitimized) that one of his parents was a direct descendant of Genghis Khan, and the other a direct descendant of Timur.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yan. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 10:09
Originally posted by AlbinoAlien AlbinoAlien wrote:

Originally posted by yan. yan. wrote:

Didn't Timur marry a descendant of Chinggis?

ahh!!! incest...that is if hes right! maybe we can figure this out if we find out whether incest was considered alright in the steppes during this time period.

I don't think so. AFAIK Mongolians used to trace back their ancestors several (7-10) generations exactly to avoid incest from happening.

So... If he was a descendant of Chingis, he certainly breached one very high of their values.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 14:40

Temur, Taimur, Timur Lenk, Timur-i Leng, Temur-e Lang, Amir Timur, Aqsaq Timur

but this is what you were wondering
Timūr Gurkānī (Persian: تيمور گوركانى), Gurkān being the Persianized form of the original Mongolian word kürügän, "son-in-law". Tongue
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arash!-!Omid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 00:47

timur was not afghan, he was born in ozbekistan originally.

Timur is not related to genghis khan, he is not a descendant of genghis khan. He call himself a descendant of genghis khan is because he wants to legitmize his political rule in central asia...In other words, he lied to the public...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turk Nomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 06:46
Timur was uzbeg Turk ı heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 08:22
Originally posted by Turk Nomad Turk Nomad wrote:

Timur was uzbeg Turk ı heard.
yep he was
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 11:16
Timur was a Turkic nomad. His wife was a descendant of Genghis Khan. They had absolutely no relation to modern Khalkha-Mongols. Babur was one their descendants - also a Tuirkic nomad, who was born in Ferghana. They spoke Turkic language - Chaghatay dialect. Timurids lost their power later to other Turkic nomads - the so-called Uzbek-Kazakhs, who were the same people as Kazakhs - not related to urban Sarts who have a settled Iranian-type culture, but are also called "Uzbeks" since 1920s.        

Edited by Akskl - 17-Sep-2006 at 22:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 21:53

Wasn't TImur a Barlas Turkicised Mongol? No intended offense to anyone.

Isa al-Masih, both God and Man, divine and human, flesh and spirit, saviour, servant and sovereign
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 22:33

His father Taraghay was head of the tribe of Barlas, a nomadic Turkic-speaking tribe of Mongol origin that traced its origin to the Mongol commander Qarachar Barlas. Taraghay was the great-grandson of Qarachar Noyon and, distinguished among his fellow-clansmen as the first convert to Islam, Taraghay might have assumed the high military rank which fell to him by right of inheritance; but like his father Burkul he preferred a life of retirement and study. Taraghay would eventually retire to a Muslim monastery, telling his son that "the world is a beautiful vase filled with scorpions."

 
 
 
Tamerlane  declared himself as descendant of Gengiz Khan. So he can be a worthy Mongol. Anyone who declare himself as Mongol can be Mongol.
 
Mongol is not necessarily a race. Its collection of clans


Edited by Jonon - 17-Sep-2006 at 22:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 22:48
Those so-called "Mongols" who were all Turkic speaking nomads have no relation to modern Khalkha-Mongols who monopolly claim themselves as their "direct descendants".
There is a big confusion in history of Great Steppe. Turkic nomads constantly are called by wrong names associated with modern either Turkic settled peoples - various Tatars, modern Uyghurs-Sarts, Turks of Anatolia, etc. - who all are results of metisation of the Turkic nomads with conquered local settled peoples.  Or  with  Khalkha-Mongols, who have no relation to Genghis Khan, but monopolized all Genghis Khan's heritage.  

Direct descendants of the Turkic nomads today are Kazakhs, very close to us (and almost totally exterminated by Russians) Noghays,  Steppe or Northern Crimean Tatars  (who  are in fact Noghays, too, and also almost totally exterminated),  very close to Kazakhs Uzbek nomads (who are not urban Sarts!) and Kyrghyzs, Turkmens, and maybe, Bashkirs, who are mixture of Turkic nomads and local Ugro-Finns.




Edited by Akskl - 17-Sep-2006 at 22:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 23:35
did not Mongols beat Turks Or Turks conquer other Turks ?
 
Are you saying Turks founded Mongol empire?
I don't really buy your idea, but why don't you start new topic thoseKhalkha
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