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Forum LockedHow do Muslims view the Baha’i Faith

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 20:33
Forgive me for posting out of turn, as I am a Baha'i and not a Muslim.

Just needed to add my 2-bits.

Nabih, Rasul (I believe some of the friends here were looking for the terms to describe the distinctiong between Messengers and Prophets)

Yes Muhammed is the Seal of the Prophets(Khatam'un Nabi-een). The term Khatam is used in the Quran. If you know, Khatam is used to mean seal as in ornament. The more commonly used term Khatim meaning final or last is not used. The question has never been throroughly debated though. And i shan't because i do not feel i am qualified enough

In the Baha'i Faith, we believe that the Word of God is so powerful, that every sentence has many meanings. (either 5000 or 50000, i am not a scholar of the Baha'i writings, so i cannot remember. This is of course maybe figurative but the essence of the statement is that Man interprets the Word of God as he wills, and will tend to dismiss all other interpretations).
Of course I can see that the same can be applied for all us.

I will just post a link to some reasons behind Seal of the Prophets (not official). Do take time to read it if you will

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/seal.htm

To azimuth, yes in a sense, Baha'u'llah was born a Shia Muslim, and declares that Shia Islam was the true branch of descent from True Islam, not Sunni, or other branches.

But still how does being born a Shia, mean that the Baha'i Faith is a branch of Shia Islam? The Baha'is declare themselves as a true, independant religion, that should by itself mean that it is no longer a brance.

Otherwise, we can declare Christianity a branch of Orthodox Judaism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 20:51

Originally posted by fastspawn fastspawn wrote:

But still how does being born a Shia, mean that the Baha'i Faith is a branch of Shia Islam? The Baha'is declare themselves as a true, independant religion, that should by itself mean that it is no longer a brance.

Otherwise, we can declare Christianity a branch of Orthodox Judaism.

Well, it is not that Baha'ullah was a Shia thus, the religion he brought is a branch of Shiah Islam. It is more of that Bahaism itself especially the one Baha'ullah established is clearly a derivative of the Shiah branch of Islam.

Note that Jesus described himself as a Jew sent to the "lost sheeps of Israel" so actually you can say that his message was not distincitve to Orthodox Judaism initially. It only became distinctive with time as his disciples and "holy spirited" saints added rituals to Christianity making it distinctive, including Christmass, Baptizing, Sunday mass, and the bible itself.  Bahaism has a similar process too.

Anyhow, going back to the point that validate Baha'ullah as a messenger, If Bahau'allah thought that he can be a messenger with a new message, I guess he opened the door for new  messengers. I can set down today and start writing a book and will call it a new religion. So since Baha'ullah did not bring a book of philosophy or mediation but rather a whole new religion, my question will be, how can we verify Baha'ullah or me who will write a book are truly messengers? In a different way, does he present a miracle or his book contains future miracles that came true?

Remember that believing in a philosophy is different than believing in a religion. A philosophy is the product of human whereas religion is the product of God.



Edited by çok geç
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 21:17
Thank you for the reply cok gec.

Quote It is more of that Bahaism itself especially the one Baha'ullah established is clearly a derivative of the Shiah branch of Islam.


How is Baha'i Faith, clearly a derivative of the Shia Branch of Islam? Because our teachings encompasses Love and Brotherhood? Yes in that aspect we are the same.

I believe that all religions come down with the same spiritual teachings, that of love, unity and brotherhood. It is just that the social teachings for the age changes with the ability of humanity to understand concepts and question intellectually certain practices. (e.g. Role of Prayer, Role of Fasting, Meaning of Hygienic Practices)

The practices that a religion acquires over time, is not what forms the religion. Rather it is the teachings. The Baha'i Faith does not have many rituals and dogmas that we seek to impose on ourselves or others. I am sure due to the role of man in religion it will acquire certain practises not attributed to Baha'u'llah.

It is due to the weaknesses of man that religion devolves into a dogma or extremism, and that is when a new Messenger of God will enter the picture to "make the crooked straight". As we had seen with Moses, and Christ and Mohammed. (One of the things i noticed is that Baha'is tend to overemphasis that we are from the Abrahamic Branch of Religion, This is not entirely true, we are not from the Abrahamic Branch, we are a completely new cycle that unites both Abrahamic and Vedic Branches to form a new age. I have to read up more though as I do not know all the reasonings)

Quote So since Baha'ullah did not bring a book of philosophy or mediation but rather a whole new religion, my question will be, how can we verify Baha'ullah or me who will write a book are truly messengers?


Yes there will be new messengers. He does warn against false prophets though, and the only shield we have against them is that we "know" the cycle will last a thousand years. Other than that, i have to paraphrase, is that the "Word Of God" is heard from the heart. Our mind's eyes must be open and not closed to dogma of generations past.
And sure enough, he does say that the new messenger will be rejected by a majority of humanity at first.
He brought a book, nay, he brought over a hundred volumes of books.

Quote Remember that believing in a philosophy is different than believing in a religion. A philosophy is the product of human whereas religion is the product of God.


Yup, of course. And the Baha'i Faith is not a "philosophy" as per defination.

Thank you, for listening to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 21:38
I haven't a clue why i can't edit my post, so forgive me for putting in a new post so rapidly.

Cok Gec, I don'http://www.allempires.com/t know whether I came on to strong in my last post, I hope I didn't because I tend to sound more gruff than what I hope or wish for when posting.

Anyway on miracles.
I shall relate a "true" story (the point is that some people might or might not accept a story as true or false because they might choose to deny or accept).

Baha'u'llah was asked by the Muslim clergy to stand trial, and answer some serious questions about the validity of the Baha'i Faith as interpreted from the Koran. Baha'u'llah proceeded to answer all their questions fully and without pause.

The next day (or few days I can't exactly remember), the clergy asked him to perform a miracle before the crowd.
Baha'u'llah answered back that (paraphrasing)
Who were they to question God? And to ask Him to perform miracles? Yet God as a mercy on His part, has accepted to performing of a miracle, on the condition that the clergy unequivocably accepted the message of Baha'u'llah on its completion{end paraphrase)
The Clergy baulked, and requested one day to think over it.
The next day they gave various excuses like the fact that miracles do not prove the validity of a prophet (which is true).

As a conclusion, this story is just a painting of why we do not place much emphasis on miracles, although there have been miracles within the Babi and Baha'i Faith.

Here are some links to the concept of miracles.
(You might not be able to access it if you are from Saudi Arabia, i am not sure)
http://bahai-library.com/books/miracles/bahai.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 22:30

Originally posted by fastspawn fastspawn wrote:

I shall relate a "true" story (the point is that some people might or might not accept a story as true or false because they might choose to deny or accept).

Well as you said, it is difficult to use that example as a miracle to other non-believer as much as when I tell a Christian of the miracles given to Prophet Muhammed including breaking water out of sand between his fingers..etc

That is why I asked for miracles in his book or later proved to miracle because those stands as witness of the faith and hardly disputable. For example, Quran's scientific miracles are hardly disputed and easy to use in examples. Anything similar to this?

Originally posted by fastspawn fastspawn wrote:

Cok Gec, I don't  know whether I came on to strong in my last post, I hope I didn't because I tend to sound more gruff than what I hope or wish for when posting.

Your previous post was perfectly fine with a polite tone. I have no problems with the two posts you posted earlier. Thank you for the link, I am able to access it. I had more questions in respond to your posts however, I will postpone them after I finished venturing in your link as I might find the answers already there.

Regarding your question why do I think that Bahaism is a derivative of Shiah doctorine, it is the same situation with Christ and Judaism. Initially Baha'ullah is a Shiah believer. Because of that, he draws to his new belief of Bahaism the concept of Imam Mehdi, which is a critical issue for Shiah. Bahaullah declared himself as the Mehdi (suprisingly also as the Christ). Also Bahai faith originated from Babism of Mirza Ali Muhammad proclaimed himself to be the Bab (Gate), "the forerunner of one greater than himself. But as the movement spread throughout much of Iran and Iraq, and especially after the Bab formally declared that Babism was a new religion he was subjected to the growing confrontations by the other Shiite 'ulamas which will lead violence and finally his execution by firing squad in 1850. Mirza Yahya Subh-i-Azal  or Baha'ullah's half-brother- claimed the leadership of the Babis, with its effective leadership in reorganizing the community. Husayn Ali Nur or Baha'allah aroused as a prominent figure among the Babi community. Especially his time in prison in 1852 at Tehran, Baha'ullah was not just a successor anymore, but the holder of the claim of a new prophetic mission which is the Bahai movement.

In Bahaullah's will (Kitab 'ahdi), Bahaullah appointed his brother Abdul Baha as his successor and the leader of the Bahai faith. Notice that the significant development in that period was that the spread of the Faith to North America in 1894 by the efforts of Ibrahim Kheiralla. This Western expansion spread from Northern America to Europe and Australia. Soon there was a flow of American and European pilgrims coming to Akka in 1898.
This Western expansion has significant consequences on the independence of the Faith. As a consequence of the efforts the Bahai Faith was introduced to the peoples from different backgrounds than the previous believers and converts. Though limited in scale, with a diverse background of the new believers, Bahai Faith was no longer confined to a Muslim milieu, but rather an international framework.
These developments also lead the change in the interpretation of the Bahai teachings. In that process of reformulation, although preserving the general Shiite understanding and conceptualization, new formulations of the Bahai teachings were developed in terms of Christian terminology. Abdul Baha himself, dealt with the reformulation in religious and philosophical themes.

Therefore, most scholars will agree that Bahai faith started as a derivative of Shiite Islam and slowly emerged out by Abdul Baha and his successor Effendi (though I believe most Bahai end the line with Abdul Baha).

Regarding my other questions, I am looking for their answers on links you provided. Thank you.

 



Edited by çok geç
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 23:09
I agree with you that Baha'u'llah was indeed born a Shia Muslim. He states that the Shia Branch of Islam is the true branch of Islam.

And yes some of our teachings are derived from Islam. However, my belief is that all religions come from God, and as such derived from the same source, God.

If that is the meaning of derivation, then yes the Baha'i Faith are like Islam and Christianity, derived from God.

Abdul' Baha is the son of Baha'u'llah, not the brother. Subh-i-Azal, was the half-brother.

Azalis, deny that Baha'u'llah is the Promised One ("Him who God shall make Manifest"). However their branch is small, and dwindling, because no other person has stepped forward to claim he was. And it would be a contradiction to be a Babi and await the Promised One, and yet no Promised One was revealed.

Subh-i-Azal, did not claim the post of head of the Babi's. He was conferred it by the Bab upon Mirza Husayn's (Baha'u'llah) recommendation. (Most of the prominent Babis, the first apostles were matyred, imprisoned )
IT was a titular name, and Mirza Yahya's term saw the degradation of the Babi Faith as they became more politicized.

I don't know how much of this "history" is distorted, after all it was man who wrote the history. But Mirza Yahya was painted as cowardly and easily influenced by his compatriot Muhammed Ali, who secretly seeked to be the new head.

In truth, Baha'u'llah never did have ill-feelings towards Mirza Yahya, despite being the target of his assassination attempts and numerous allegations towards the Shah and Sultan that got the fledgling Baha'i Faith in trouble. It just wasn't in his nature. (Well that is what is written in history, and the only few people to write Baha'i History usually become Baha'is)



In the Kitab-i-Ahd, Baha'u'llah states that his successor Abdul-Baha (Abbas Effendi), his son, was to be the new Head of the Baha'i Faith. He was allowed to interpret his teachings, and his laws, and his word became the authoritative interpretation. In other words, he cannot add any new laws, but can only explain to people what Baha'u'llah's laws mean.

This role of interpreter is very important. Baha'is as I explained earlier, are wary of false interpretation of their teachings, and only successors of the Faith can interpret the laws into canon. All Baha'is can understand the writings differently, but none can press it on another person. That is why we have no clergy.

Shoghi Effendi, his Grandson, was appointed as the Guardian in Abdul-Baha's Will and Testament.
Shoghi Effendi, though, met a lot of opposition especially amongst his own family members. This was because, they as humans, also wanted to have this "status".

Regretably, but probably by Divine Providence (as I shall explain later), they were declared Covenant-Breakers, or excommunicated. This was to protect the Baha'i Faith from schisms that disrupt their unity. (Islam had the same problem with schism)

After the passing of Shoghi Effendi passed away, the Universal House of Justice was formed. The seat of the House resides in haifa. This body, doesn't have the powers of interpretation. But they have the power of creating social laws that are not in contradiction with the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

If the Guardian had issue, there would be a next Guardian. Or it would have passed to the nearest Aghsan, (male-line descendant of Baha'u'llah not a covenant breaker). Instead we today have the station of the Guardian, but no human occupying this position. (and never more, as far as I can tell)

This means that the Universal House of Justice can only refer back to either Shoghi Effendi, Abdul-Baha, or Baha'u'llah for guidance. This means that there will be a future dispensation that will come down with new social laws and teachings. But for now, apparently the laws are enough for the next 1000 years (of which 161 have passed)

(Thus I suppose a simple timeline is Bab-Baha'u'llah-Abdul-Baha-Shoghi Effendi-(post Shoghi, pre UHJ AKA International Baha'i Council)-Universal House of Justice)

All Baha'is have to accede to this line. I am afraid to say that any Baha'i that detracts from this line is most assuredly a covenant-breaker, as can be read from both Wills and Testaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 00:56

 

ok, if he considered the Shia branch of Islam is the correct one, why would he makes a new religion??

As per muslim belive Jesus came and considered Judaisim as a corrupted religion and he had to get it to the right direction also when Islam Came it considered both judaisim and christianity as corrupted religions ( corrupted by their people) and Islam is the continuation of these religions but in the right un-corrupted way.

so as per Shia Islam ( which Bahaullah approved ) the Mahdi will Get the people to correct Islam and justic in the world Not a totally different religion.

so tell me how can he considered any religion to be the True one while he makes a new one.

obviously he might thought that those religions are NOT the correct ones and a new one must be made to replace them.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 01:40
Azimuth,

I am sorry if I have not being as clear as I have wished to be.

What I said about Shia Islam is that, that branch was the correct succession of Islam.

Again in Islam, as with all religions, man will corrupt the religion and introduce dogmas and superstitions based upon their own interpretations of the Word of God.

And all religions, if they come from God, are correct. None is wrong. it is just that we need new social laws, and a greater understanding of man's role that comes with our combined maturity.
That is why we have a progressive revelation, as God will never leave Man alone to fend for himself, yet he cannot reveal everything to Man at once as Man cannot swallow it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 08:40

Allah'u'Abha fastspawn how are you. LOL

The story you gave about the Miracle they wanted Baha'u'llah to perform, I was going to write the exact same story lol. But i thought not, but then you did so it must have been God's will

 

Azimuth

so as per Shia Islam ( which Bahaullah approved ) the Mahdi will Get the people to correct Islam and justic in the world Not a totally different religion.

I understand this, but wasn't the knew messanger from Christianity supposed to come down from Clouds in a white horse (Not quite sure) etc., Did Muhammad come to the people like that? no., thats why we believe that these are symbolic in meaning. Maybe fastspawn can go further into this, im scared with my bad english i might write something not good ))

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 09:02

Religion,Nationality,Race,Language........all these identities r intertwined.Can we think outside these boundaries.My personal opinion is .....it's nearly impossible for an average human being to do so.N even though we might be able to break free of these boundaries for a short while .....when we r within our GROUP of people...'Mass Psychology' takes over.

Falsafi ko bahas ke andar khuda milta nahi,Bahas ko suljha raha hai aur sira milta nahi.

All discussions/disputes based on religion will be solved by war or qayamat/the day of judgement/pralaya..............

Jai Badri Vishal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 09:18
Originally posted by çok geç çok geç wrote:

Well as you said, it is difficult to use that example as a miracle

The reason it is difficult to use that example as a miracle is that he didn't perform one. He bluffed his way out of it.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 10:43
Quote The reason it is difficult to use that example as a miracle is that he didn't perform one. He bluffed his way out of it.


I am sorry you feel so strongly about miracles. I am not here to proselytize nor convert so i didn't feel the need or had the ability to list everything that Baha'u'llah did and said down.

Quote That is why I asked for miracles in his book or later proved to miracle because those stands as witness of the faith and hardly disputable. For example, Quran's scientific miracles are hardly disputed and easy to use in examples.


I regretfully am ignorant and need to know what scientific miracles are.
Are we talking about prophecies about the state of the world as predicted?
I am going to quote a few from the book by Gary L. Matthews "The Challenges of Baha'u'llah.
----------------------------------------------
1. The fall of Napoleon III, given in 1868. We remember him falling in 1870 to Prussia, thanks to the emergence of the diplomatic hand of Bismarck. Prior to this Napoleon was almost able to restore his uncles legacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III

2. The defeat of Germany in TWO bloody wars after their defeat of the French, leading to the "lamentation of Berlin". We know what happened, it is probably the biggest news in the 20th century.

3. The success and stability of Queen Victoria (and her progeny). Well not that obvious taking Fergie's dalliances and all. But still they are definately more stable now then ever.

4. The dismissal of Ali-Pasha and violent deposal of Sultan Abdul Aziz. This might seem a bit obvious in hindsight. But one of the noted clerical opponents of Baha'u'llah, Mirza Abdul Fadl, used this "prophecy" to point out that it was so improbable, that he vowed to join the ranks of the Baha'is if that happened.
In 1876, after the dismissal of Ali-Pasha, Abdul Aziz was killed in a conspiracy.
Mirza Abu'l Fadl, upon reminder of his promise, (after some thought), retired from his post as head of the Madrisih Hakim Hashim, and became a respected Baha'i

5. The fall of the Ottoman Empire. That is also a no-brainer to me. Ottoman Empire is the sick man of europe. But I don't have the gumption to make a prophecy like that.

6. The fall of Nasri-din-shah. In 1896, he was killed by an assassin. 2 Baha'is paid the price, Varqa a poet and his 12 year old son. It turned out that the assassin was a pan-islamist, Mirza Rida. Apparently Nasri-din-Shah probably aware of all the prophecies that were coming true (the fall of Napoleon and the Sultans), started becoming more moderate, and on his assassination's date planned on renounicing his prerogatives as a despot and stop persecution of Bahai's. That of course led to the Islamist Rida to crazed fanaticism.

7. Creation of the State of Israel following their persecution in Europe.

8. Violent Racial Struggles in America. (This was attributed to Abdul-Baha in 1912).

(end this section for brevity)
For now I shall stop with social prophecies and focus on Scientific ones.

1. The blossoming of scientific and technological progress. This is quite clear if you compare 1850-present how much has changed. one of the first few technologies "that brought the world closer", the invention of the telegraph and telephone and the development of flight, motorized transport et al.

2. The development of nuclear weapons. saying it will change the atmosphere and contaminate the earth.

3. alludes to the process as a transmutation of the elements. Brings to bear again the fact that this discovery will be very dire.

4. And several others within the book, which i am a bit too tired to type out.

---------------------------------------

Again, I think these prophecies are not even worth an ounce towards whether i believe or disbelieve Baha'u'llah's teachings, I am just stating that to correct people who might think that Baha'u'llah never did have any "miracles".
For physical miracles I only have to say that the Bab was shot by a firing squad of 750 rifles and was not killed. That full story I shan't elaborate for now.

Again all these interpretations of prophecies, are Matthews personal interpretation, and should not be taken and completely believed as canon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 12:50
Originally posted by çok geç çok geç wrote:

Originally posted by Maziar Maziar wrote:

 Anger and punishment aren't an effective method for decent education. Fearing parents will causes many mental problemes in futur.

It's the same thing in relation with God. Why do you need to "fear" a god for being decent?

Sure. Find me a parent who never ever got angry and never ever punished their kids.

I personally never seen that and punishment does not have to be physical. It is something common sense that we have punishing results for your wrong work. Punishment is a part of the educational system actually, which is from receiving F for your low performance in class, being asked to stay in your room for the night by your parent, cut in your monthly salary by your employee, fines of speeding, all the way to prison and execution. That is realism, however, if you believe in managing human beings with no punishment, i respect your ultra-idealistic belief.

Hello,

Practicing physical punishment by many parents dont legalize it. It is still a false method. I didnt mean there must be no sanction at all. If you are talking about "fearing" your father, so i just can think about physical punishment.

Sorry for misunderstanding you



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 16:20
Originally posted by Maziar Maziar wrote:

Hello,

Practicing physical punishment by many parents dont legalize it. It is still a false method. I didnt mean there must be no sanction at all. If you are talking about "fearing" your father, so i just can think about physical punishment.

Sorry for misunderstanding you

No problem my friend.

   I know that most of the time, people think that punishment of parents means only physical one. Which is definitely a useless process that causes harm instead.

   Since Im a religious person (or trying to be), I like to take my examples out of my religious teaching where the Prophet not only has never used his hand beating, he has never shouted or insulted his daughter Fatima or even his servant Anas, not even telling him "why you didn't do that" for things he didn't do. One story i love is when once a time his wife Aisha got jealous from a gift the prophet received and she threw the plate on the floor breaking it in front of other companions. If it was me, I have no clue what I will be doing. Maybe furious and shouting on her. However the prophet just smiled and sayed "your mother got jealous". 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cahaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 19:33

Originally posted by fastspawn fastspawn wrote:

Forgive me for posting out of turn, as I am a Baha'i and not a Muslim.

Just needed to add my 2-bits.

Nabih, Rasul (I believe some of the friends here were looking for the terms to describe the distinctiong between Messengers and Prophets)

Yes Muhammed is the Seal of the Prophets(Khatam'un Nabi-een). The term Khatam is used in the Quran. If you know, Khatam is used to mean seal as in ornament. The more commonly used term Khatim meaning final or last is not used. The question has never been throroughly debated though. And i shan't because i do not feel i am qualified enough

In the Baha'i Faith, we believe that the Word of God is so powerful, that every sentence has many meanings. (either 5000 or 50000, i am not a scholar of the Baha'i writings, so i cannot remember. This is of course maybe figurative but the essence of the statement is that Man interprets the Word of God as he wills, and will tend to dismiss all other interpretations).
Of course I can see that the same can be applied for all us.

I will just post a link to some reasons behind Seal of the Prophets (not official). Do take time to read it if you will

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/seal.htm

To azimuth, yes in a sense, Baha'u'llah was born a Shia Muslim, and declares that Shia Islam was the true branch of descent from True Islam, not Sunni, or other branches.

But still how does being born a Shia, mean that the Baha'i Faith is a branch of Shia Islam? The Baha'is declare themselves as a true, independant religion, that should by itself mean that it is no longer a brance.

Otherwise, we can declare Christianity a branch of Orthodox Judaism.

Hai fastspawn... just a curious here... are u a malay, chinese or indian? how many Baha'i already in Singapore....? Does ur government acknowledge ur faith? Do u guys have any follower in Malaysia?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 22:16
yes there are Baha'i in Malayisa, including my cousins who are half chinese and half Iranian. There are Baha'i all around the world aswell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oTToMAn_TurK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 22:32

what i dnt get is that in the koran there is not even a slight saying that prophicises the coming of a new prophit after mohammed. if anything it talks about coming of false prophits but never anymore prophits after mohammed (pbuh). the jews holy book prohpised that that the messaih, jesus, would come adn also a another prohit "like" moses (wich was mohammed coz jesus wasnt "lik" moses). the bible (although this claim isnt popular among christians) also talks about a coming of a new prophit after jesus. why there isnt no proof in the koran that there will be a new prophit?

in islam its very dangerous to say or believe in mohammed, while not believing he is the last and seal of all prophets. so it is very hard for most muslims to convert to the bahai faith. not denying it probly happens ofcourse

Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 06:47
There are officially around 2000 baha'is in Singapore, but like all religions some are more active than others.

In malaysia there are a lot of Baha'is.

Baha'is are one of the 9 official religions in Singapore, but I don't know about Malaysia.

As we tend to be apolitical, we try to stay out of the limelight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 13:52

Originally posted by Arpad Arpad wrote:

yes there are Baha'i in Malayisa, including my cousins who are half chinese and half Iranian. There are Baha'i all around the world aswell.

Hi Arpad, very interesting, are they iranian bahaai which moved there? or they are malay in origin?

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