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Forum LockedHow do Latin Americans look

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Post Options Post Options   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How do Latin Americans look
    Posted: 03-May-2009 at 20:27
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

I went out for a couple beers last night a Chilean girl. She is pretty proud of being Hispanic, but her skin is more fair then mine, granted I've been working in the sun lately. She also has green eyes. Going by what pinguin is saying, you wouldn't know she was Hispanic, but she seems to like to make it clear when you talk to her lol.

Curious. If you are just a bit darker than average Chileans, you would be called "negro" down here or in Argentina ConfusedConfused... No kidding.

I could be wrong, but I think she might be more fair then most Chileans, I don't know for sure though. I've also been working in the sun, so I'm darker then usual. But if I saw her on the street, I wouldn't have guessed she was Hispanic is what I was getting at.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 01:18
Those are stereotypes. Chileans are lighter (in average) that Mexicans and many wouldn't call the attention in the U.S.
On the other hand our stereotype of Americans is that you all guys are blond blue eyed pale people. Which is not true. Just think in Bill Cosby and Obama; both browner than everyone down here. And also it isn't true for quite a lot of white Americans.
 
You guys aren't really Germans.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 04:50
Originally posted by lirelou

Hugo, I studied Mexican history in university, live for five years in Texas (El Paso, and near Austin), used to own property outside McAllen, and was posted to the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City for two and a half years. 


And you just joined! Welcome to AE. The main person interested in Mexico here is Mixcoatl, followed by a few others, with me included. Many of the most interesting conversations about Mexico happened in the sidelines though But with you around, maybe we can start having them here again.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 13:15
Originally posted by pinguin

Indeed. Mayans don't look Spaniard. But Mexicans in general don't look Mayan or Spaniard but with all the varieties in between. So, it makes sense that most people shown on TV belongs to the largest majorities. From my experience in Lat Am TV, it is not strange, either, that pure Amerindian looking people shows on TV. However, dressing as Europeans and wearing executive suits. It is more common, though, to see them in the news and other activities rather than at the time prime on soap operas.
 
I'm sure you know that better than I do. I don't know what is most common.
 
Is this Italian any different looking than the Mexican newswoman?
 
Maybe a bit in the details, but it doesn't stand out, imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 04:27
Originally posted by Jams

... 
I'm sure you know that better than I do. I don't know what is most common.
 
Is this Italian any different looking than the Mexican newswoman?
 
Maybe a bit in the details, but it doesn't stand out, imho.
 
That's the point, Jams. That European phenotype above overlaps with the native.mestizo.white continium. It is absolutelly impossible to tell appart that "kind" of Italians, Spaniard, French, or even Moors or Arabs from the average Mestizo people. You mix northern European with Amerindian and the same faces appear!
 
If someone doesn't agree, well just try to take a trip to South America and find out directly on site. Here we have large populations of Spaniards, Italians and mestizos. Nobody knows who is who.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2009 at 04:30
Interesting excerpt in Far Outliers concerning the presence of Filipinos ("Chinos") in Colonial New Spain (Mexico).   Open the link and scroll down to Asians in New Spain. http://faroutliers.wordpress.com/  Should be the second article down in today's postings.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2009 at 04:34
Sorry, that was "Asian Roles in New Spain. THe excerpts are in Far Outliers courtesy of the latest issue of Journal of World History (on Project MUSE), taken from an article is by Edward R. Slack Jr. on “The Chinos in New Spain: A Corrective Lens for a Distorted Image.”  One Filipina, the "China Poblana", gave Mexico it's national dress.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2009 at 16:54
Yes, there were some Philippines in Mexico. Few migrants, I think, but the crowd of the Manila Gallions were mainly people from Philippines. Even more, the Galions themselves were build in Philipines.
 
China poblana:
 
 
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 19:59
In many parts of the world, regarding different disputes about land and other issues people are turning to DNA to try to find out their ancestry and "racial" belonging.  In the US this is for example the case in an ongoing dispute between American natives (Amerindians) and Black American Natives (who the Amerindians calls Freedmen). The dispute concerns the Black Natives right to be a part of Amerindian communities and thus being able to share different kinds of compensation and grants from the state.
 
It´s a rather complicated story with threads a couple of hundred years back:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 20:07
Don´t forget the black people of Latin America, the Afro-Latino people. They are also an important ingredient in the Latin American mix:
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 20:16
When I was in Mazatlan, Mexico I really saw quite diversity from really faired skinned people to others with a very dark complexion. Some of the Mexicans were lighter skinned than me. I remember meeting a really cute Mexican female who was half German and she had blonde hair blue eyes. She really looked as out of place there as a orange next to an onion. I met people directly from Spain and even a few black Mexicans. The Indians from the mountain villages were small and had a very dark complexion and sort of reminded of the gypsies in Turkey with the colorful dresses the women wore. Sadly, they were out begging for money.   I think Mexico is as diverse as the USA but I have not been to any other Latin American country. The markets was the best place to see all the diversity in the people there and I loved those inside markets sort of like a farmer’s market. I would love to go to Argentina or Chile someday but Alaska is tops on my list. Like Greek/Turkiye I saw a lot of stray cats and dogs in Mexico but great idea because it keeps the mice/rats down.

My Mexican friend Moses said he knew a recent Greek immigrant in Mexico so people come from all over to live there and his mother was half Mexican and half Chinese.   I hear Brazil has the largest ethnic Japanese population outside of japan.

Edited by eaglecap - 15-May-2009 at 20:19
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 20:56
Originally posted by Carcharodon

Don´t forget the black people of Latin America, the Afro-Latino people. They are also an important ingredient in the Latin American mix:
 
 
In some countries, yes. Not in all the region, though. They are quite important for Cuba and the Caribbean and for Brazil. Other countries, like Uruguay, Peru and Ecuador have Black minorities. Some other countries don't have an African heritage at all. So, they are important for some Latin American countries but not for all.
 
Besides, there is not "Afro"-Latino people. Eitheir you are Latino or African. Black people of the region may choose. Celia Cruz, Pele and other voted for Latino, and that's what they are.


Edited by pinguin - 15-May-2009 at 20:59
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 21:01
Originally posted by Carcharodon

In many parts of the world, regarding different disputes about land and other issues people are turning to DNA to try to find out their ancestry and "racial" belonging.  In the US this is for example the case in an ongoing dispute between American natives (Amerindians) and Black American Natives (who the Amerindians calls Freedmen). The dispute concerns the Black Natives right to be a part of Amerindian communities and thus being able to share different kinds of compensation and grants from the state.
 
It´s a rather complicated story with threads a couple of hundred years back:
 
There is nothing complicated about it. American Indians aren't Blacks. Those tribes that influenced by the white man become slave owners are paying the price of theirs past sins.
But those Black people aren't Indians, but wannabes. They aren't even sambo, to start with.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 21:56
Originally posted by pinguin

 
There is nothing complicated about it. American Indians aren't Blacks. Those tribes that influenced by the white man become slave owners are paying the price of theirs past sins.
But those Black people aren't Indians, but wannabes.
That depends on the individual that you are refering to. Some balck people claiming to be native american are fakes and are only interested in benefits.
 
But some genetically black people have very strong claims to being native american as their ancestors were adopted fully into tribal culture, language and dress.  This adoption included fighting as Native Americans against the U.S. military and being forcibly re-located along with the "genetic" native americans. Black Seminole leader John Horse illustrates this.
 
These people today are as "native american" as the "asiatic" native americans whose
DNA is primarily anglo. What keeps them from being counted as such is money.  This is especially with casino operating tribes who have a very strong incentive to limit tribal membership (asiatic, black or otherwise). In doing so, they can have some very creative and very technical rules for defining tribal membership.   


Edited by Cryptic - 15-May-2009 at 22:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 22:04

As a Chilean, that is used to another reality, this "romantic" love between blacks and indians as it is shown in the U.S. it doesn't make sense to me. At least in this part of the world, blacks were used as the executioners and tortures of Amerindians by the Spaniards, so when natives captured one of them they certainly had a worst punishment than theirs masters.

With respect to "addoptions", at least in my opinions, some mixed groups have the rights to claims amerindian ancestry. That's true for many meti groups, where mixtures are european and amerindian, but also for some sambo groups, where the mixture is between amerindians and blacks. In the last case I include sambos like the Caribs and other groups in the tropicals part of the Americas.

However, groups like the blacks cherokees and the garifunas, don't convince me they are real indians at all. In culture, maybe, but they doubtfully have a single drop of the ancient peoples.
 


Edited by pinguin - 15-May-2009 at 22:12
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 22:25
Originally posted by pinguin

As a Chilean, that is used to another reality, this "romantic" love between blacks and indians as it is shown in the U.S. it doesn't make sense to me. At least in this part of the world, blacks were used as the executioners and tortures of Amerindians by the Spaniards
Here in North America, back and native American relations have been far more friendly. This included tolerating and in some cases, sheltering run away slaves and intermarriage.  Some Native Americans also avoided deportation by joining free black communities (Lumbee "indians" of North Carolina. These inter-marriages produced some mixed groups in the U.S. south, usually known as "red bone" blacks.
 
Of course, some tribes did own black slaves and black regiments were used against reisisting natives. Even still, Native American slave owners were generally viewed as less oppressive than whites and Black regiments, though very effective in battle, did not commit atrocities against indian civilians.


Edited by Cryptic - 15-May-2009 at 22:36
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 22:35

The difference, perhaps, was in the way Europeans viewed both group. Spaniards treated better Indians than blacks. Americans discriminated both groups the same way. So, it is logical they made alliances.

"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 22:48
^
I agree. And since both groups were treated equally bad, neither group was used as brutal "enforcers" against the other.
 
This was different from the European colonial empires who routinely favored one group of locals over the others. The favored group was then used as enforcers. For example, Zulus in South Africa.


Edited by Cryptic - 15-May-2009 at 23:06
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2009 at 01:41
If one wants to read more about the Black Seminoles and their ties to the Amerindian Seminoles one can check out this interesting site:
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2009 at 01:50
Some of the DNA studies are giving interesting results showing that "pure" Amerindians, "pure" Blacks and "pure" Whites are actually rather rare in North America today. Most of the population is mixed in some ways.
 
When the DNA technique is refined we will be better and better in locating the whereabouts of our ancestors and how they moved and mixed with each other. Interesting.
 
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