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Forum LockedHorse domestication in Kazakhstan

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    Posted: 11-Mar-2009 at 16:23
New findings in Kazakhstan - horses was domesticated at least 5,500 years ago:
"An international team of archaeologists has uncovered the earliest known evidence of horses being domesticated by humans. The discovery suggests that horses were both ridden and milked. The findings could point to the very beginnings of horse domestication and the origins of the horse breeds we know today. Led by the Universities of Exeter and Bristol (UK), the research is published on Friday 6 March 2009 in leading academic journal Science."
 
Article: 


Edited by Jams - 11-Mar-2009 at 16:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2009 at 08:06
There are theories that horses were domesticated by proto indoeuropean speakers who inhabitted the steppes at the time; which is why words related to "horses" stem from the same root among most indo-european languages.
Don't know whether this theory still holds water.

I read that before horses were domesticated they were considered by humans as a great pest because they ran fast and in large hordes. Although they were vegetarian, when they felt scared or intimdated they often attacked; and when they attacked, there was little that humans could do to escape.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2009 at 05:41
That is really quite interesting...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jallaludin Akbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 17:29
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

There are theories that horses were domesticated by proto indoeuropean speakers who inhabitted the steppes at the time; which is why words related to "horses" stem from the same root among most indo-european languages.
Don't know whether this theory still holds water.

I read that before horses were domesticated they were considered by humans as a great pest because they ran fast and in large hordes. Although they were vegetarian, when they felt scared or intimdated they often attacked; and when they attacked, there was little that humans could do to escape.


Weren't horses often hunted and used as a source of food?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bernard Woolley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 18:34
Originally posted by Jallaludin Akbar Jallaludin Akbar wrote:

[QUOTE=calvo]Weren't horses often hunted and used as a source of food?
 
Yes. Both horses and camels were originally present in North America (I believe that's where camels actually first appeared), but were hunted into extinction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 22:31
Originally posted by Bernard Woolley Bernard Woolley wrote:

Originally posted by Jallaludin Akbar Jallaludin Akbar wrote:

[QUOTE=calvo]Weren't horses often hunted and used as a source of food?
 
Yes. Both horses and camels were originally present in North America (I believe that's where camels actually first appeared), but were hunted into extinction.
 
They could have been hunted, but they were also considered a dangerous animal; just like wild bulls or wild boars.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HungryWolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 23:50
I know it. There are also horse graves and tombs in Turkestan/Central Asia.
It shows how much people love horses as Turks spent their whole life riding horses.


Edited by HungryWolf - 15-Mar-2009 at 23:52


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2009 at 08:08
The only technique that I could think of in hunting horses is by throwing spears or firing arrows from a well-protected area; like on top of a tree or a rock.
Wild horses tend to run in large hordes; and hunter-gatherer bands are generally very few in number. Imagine a team of 10 well-armed men were confronted by a horde of 20 horses, there'd be little that they could do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whalebreath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 05:02
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

The only technique that I could think of in hunting horses is by throwing spears or firing arrows from a well-protected area; like on top of a tree or a rock.
Wild horses tend to run in large hordes; and hunter-gatherer bands are generally very few in number. Imagine a team of 10 well-armed men were confronted by a horde of 20 horses, there'd be little that they could do.

Little except kill/injure every Horse that came within range, simple enough for someone with a strong arm steady nerves and enough spears standing back to back.

A herd of Horses isn't any more dangerous than a herd of Bison or any other ungulate unless one is standing unarmed in front of them when they're stampeding.

In terms of hunting the idea is to lure the animals into a funnel shaped construct where their natural herding instinct can be used to frighten them into stampeding to their deaths.

A place like Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump in Alberta would work for Horses as well.

Here's some Horse related music from Kazakhstan

Note the artist is speaking Russian with a number of English loan words, he's a true artist the Horse-like rhythms he produces are amazing and his singing is haunting.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 08:15
If horses were present in both America and Eurasia, it would mean that the species has been around before the separation of the continental plates.

I couldn't imagine a horde of horses galloping across the bearing strait....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2009 at 16:52
they were just some sort of proto-horses, they were not the kind of horses we know today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bernard Woolley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2009 at 04:54

Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

If horses were present in both America and Eurasia, it would mean that the species has been around before the separation of the continental plates.

I couldn't imagine a horde of horses galloping across the bearing strait....

They were able to go back and forth until the Bering Strait land bridge closed up somewhere around 10,000 years ago. Horses went extinct in the Americas shortly after that.

 

Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

they were just some sort of proto-horses, they were not the kind of horses we know today.

That's right. They were much smaller - even smaller than ponies. It took thousands of years of selection to make the horse breeds we have today.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boreasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2009 at 03:02
Neolitic horses in the Alps?
 
Quote
 
Stone Age trade routes yield spectacular finds on alpine pass

In the hot summer of 2003 two wanderers from the Swiss Thun did not trust their eyes. They stood at the edge of an icefield at the Schnidejoch above Lenk, when they discovered a birchbark arrow-quiver. A dating with the archaeological service of the canton Berne showed that the birchbark is nearly 5000 years old. Meanwhile the Bernese archaeologist searched the area thoroughly and found some evidence for a much-used connection between that Bernese upper country and north Italy. The glacier between the today's ski place Lenk in the north and Sitten, the principal place in the canton Wallis, had released pieces of find from four different epochs. For the archaeologists, the discovery is of comparable importance to Oetzi, the South Tirol glacier corpse.

"Naturally, Oetzi is more sensational", says Peter Suter, Leader of the department of prehistory and early history with the archaeological service in Berne. "However for historical research, these finds from several centuries are just as important." Because they represent not only a snapshot, but as it were a diagram of the settlement and climatic history in the central Alps. The oldest finds are clothing remnants and articles of equipment dated from the Late Stone Age and the epoch between 2800 and 2500 BC. Among them are a birchbark arrow-quiver, some stone arrowheads as well as fragments of Stone Age leather shoes and trousers. The researchers found also particles of human skin as well as skin remnants, which may come from a horse. "One asks oneself, what was a horse doing there?", says Peter Suter.
(2003)
http://www.welt.de/print-welt/article17 ... swege.html 


Updated analyzis of age states that the find contain artefacts "more than 6.500 years old".
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnidejoch
http://www.landschaftsmuseum.de/seiten/ ... och_CH.htm
http://www.geschichte-schweiz.ch/pfahlb ... auten.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ConradWeiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2009 at 20:17
Quote It shows how much people love horses as Turks spent their whole life riding horses


And I bet that love turned carnal pretty quickly. Wink

Which means, of course, that we humans should have been exposed to some of our first inter-species diseases. Wonder if there is any evidence of new diseases around 5,500 years ago?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2009 at 20:54
The Turks, are the most well driven people about horses.
 
They are the main things of Turkish Kült.
 
At, Avrat, Silah , Çadır, Ağaç....
 
Horse,Wife,Gun,Tent,Three ....
We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bernard Woolley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2009 at 18:12

Originally posted by ConradWeiser ConradWeiser wrote:

And I bet that love turned carnal pretty quickly.

Which means, of course, that we humans should have been exposed to some of our first inter-species diseases. Wonder if there is any evidence of new diseases around 5,500 years ago?

I think the more likely suspect causes of disease transmission from horses to humans would be either eating horse meat, which started long before domestication, or using horse dung for fuel.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2009 at 20:38
Originally posted by Bernard Woolley Bernard Woolley wrote:

Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

they were just some sort of proto-horses, they were not the kind of horses we know today.

That's right. They were much smaller - even smaller than ponies. It took thousands of years of selection to make the horse breeds we have today.



Shetland ponies come to mind. Are they genetically similar to their ancestors?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bernard Woolley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2009 at 21:51

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Shetland ponies come to mind. Are they genetically similar to their ancestors?

The Przevalski's Horse is the only remaining horse that's truly wild. Apparently there was another wild species called the Tarpan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpan) which died out duing the 19th century. These would probably be the closest to the ancestral horse.

I'm not sure, but I think the Shetland Pony was actually bred down from larger horses, in which case it wouldn't be representative of wild horses.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2009 at 22:09
Originally posted by Bernard Woolley Bernard Woolley wrote:

I'm not sure, but I think the Shetland Pony was actually bred down from larger horses, in which case it wouldn't be representative of wild horses.



I know! I've never even contemplated any other thought for shetland ponies until i came across this thread.
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