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Forum LockedHistory of Mughal-Pathans

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mughalpathan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughalpathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2009 at 02:25
About Mughal-Pathans:
 
Mughol-zai is a subtribe of GilZai or Tokhi tribe:
Tokhi (Ghilzai) A Ghalji (Ghilzai) tribe found throughout southern and western Afghanistan, although most heavily concentrated in Zabul and Uruzgan. Two main sub-tribes are the Muhammadzai (the largest) and Shamulzai (Shimalzai); other divisions include the Jalazai, Babakrzai, Miranzai, Jaffri, Pirozai (Pir Khel), and Kishaini.
 
Ghilzai pathans have been originated from Turkey.
 
(It may be possible that the people who are claiming themselves as Mughal-Pathans are actually Mughol-Zai from Ghilzai tribe)
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Indian Pathan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Indian Pathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2009 at 06:21
Thanks a lot, where the word Zai started.  I am interested in Mahmand Tribe that is based in and around Peshawar, me too, I belong to the same tribe though now I am in India Delhi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yas245 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2009 at 23:24
I recently had a intresting conversation with my uncle and the conversation went like this:

He told me my Great Grandfather, who was from Jullandar, was Pashto speaking, but he claimed it wasn't his mother tongue, but a language he picked up whilst he was in the area of Swat, Peshawar due to Army duties there. There is also no clue as to where his parents originated from; though, the name of my Great Grandfather and his brothers: Abdullah Khan, Maula Baksh and Khadhar Khan; aswell as their physical descriptions, to me, sound as if they were foreign settlers. My Uncle inisisted that they were Mughal Chaghattai, whereas my father recalled my uncle saying they were Mughal-Pathan or Mughal-Chaghattai-Pathan. I don't understand why i keep hearing different narrations. Anyway, i expressed my doubts, but i learnt these doubts existed for my Uncle, who himself was not completely sure about our history. The problem is my ancestoral history only goes back 1 generation, so its something we are bound to inherit.
 
Some things i would like to clarify are ...

1) Is it true that during the time of the British Raj, if you were found to be Mughal, you would be killed or deprived in some way in society, which meant you had to hide your original identity or tribe ???
2) How likely could the language Pashto been picked up while serving the Army?
3) How possible was it for people to change their Tribe ?
4) Did people generally adopt the Surname "Khan" as their second names ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Indian Pathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2009 at 06:47
Yes, you are right yas245, here is no proper record of the tribes moment. Only the record is what one told his sons and those sons keep on telling others.  It is almost true that "Khan" is also used as title. In North India, near Delhi, there is an area called "Mewat", it starts from Delhi and went upto 'Rajasthan', these people are called Mewati, they are converted from Hindu Rajput, they all use with their names khan though they are not Pathan, it is because some of their lelders were given the title khan by Mughals kings.
 
But in North India, the real pathan too, use urdu as their language, some of them use pathan Suit to wear like in Afghanistan, they still have  many traditions the same. One, "Mr. Salman Khursheed" is the minister in the new government now, he is Pathan from 'Azam Garh', UP. I am interested about knowing of "Mehmand" tribe, when they came to Delhi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yas245 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2009 at 13:21
Brother, I hear what your saying. I really wanted to know the validity of some information. Absolutely, like you said there is no proper record of such things and it is just something thats passed on through Generations (Mine being only 1 Generation).

Regarding your Tribe
, i think it would be a good idea to start a new thread since the topic of this particular thread is Mughal-Pathan. Here people are looking for their origin from two distinct identities. Whereas in your case, you have your tribe name and looking for information on it. As much as i like to help, i honestly do not know anything about that tribe. However, after my quick search here's what i can offer you :

There is a slight spelling varriation. it is either "Mehmand" or "Mohmand", i guess they are the same. Some information can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohmands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohmand_Agency

Regarding when they came to Delhi is similar to the question i posed about the possible migration of my ancestors into Jullandhar. I took it as an exceptional case of migration, and not as a collective one. My theory was that people travelled for trade into places where they were most likely to find it and perhaps be better off (if they had the money offcourse).  Then I learnt about the Pashtun colonies, now these were collective migrations during the British Raj (earlier in this thread); the reason for these migrations were perhaps because of the inital idea i had of trade. Delhi or the other indian places were either trade centers, place of development and/or popularity. Now after the recent conversation with my Uncle (below), i have raised questions regarding this migration. If my ancestors were Pashtun migrants or if they weren't, then questions 2 and 3 would be the crux in deciding that:

Originally posted by yas245 yas245 wrote:

He told me my Great Grandfather, who was from Jullandar, was Pashto speaking, but he claimed it wasn't his mother tongue, but a language he picked up whilst he was in the area of Swat, Peshawar due to Army duties there. There is also no clue as to where his parents originated from; though, the name of my Great Grandfather and his brothers: Abdullah Khan, Maula Baksh and Khadhar Khan; aswell as their physical descriptions, to me, sound as if they were foreign settlers. My Uncle inisisted that they were Mughal Chaghattai, whereas my father recalled my uncle saying they were Mughal-Pathan or Mughal-Chaghattai-Pathan. I don't understand why i keep hearing different narrations. Anyway, i expressed my doubts, but i learnt these doubts existed for my Uncle, who himself was not completely sure about our history. The problem is my ancestoral history only goes back 1 generation, so its something we are bound to inherit.

Some Questions:
1) Is it true that during the time of the British Raj, if you were found to be Mughal, you would be killed or deprived in some way in society, which meant you had to hide your original identity or tribe ???
2) How likely could the language Pashto been picked up while serving the Army?
3) How possible was it for people to change their Tribe ?
4) Did people generally adopt the Surname "Khan" as their second names ?


My uncle was told by my Grandfather, who himself knew little about his history, but that is not to say he knew anything at all. Therfore, these questions for me, i hope, will help me determine whether they were actually Pashtuns or Mughals or maybe decendants of both.

I hope that helped.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Indian Pathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2009 at 07:37
Good information, thanks. I believe, Pathans first migrated at the time of Mohammad Gauri, first Muslim king coming to present India. Though there have been migration before too but even there was not Islam in present Afghanistan at that time. It means, pathan migrated with other tribes names ( may be any name from presnet North Indian casts system). Then during 'Lodhis' dynasty period as they were pathans themselves later, during Mughal period and 'Sher Shah Suri''s' time. the biggest gathering was in Roheil Khand area of UP, comprising many districts from 'Moradabad' to 'Shahjahan pur'. thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughalpathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 03:31

For Indian Pathan:

Dear, I have a friend who is Mohmand but this time, he cannot speak pashto, he is hindkowan. He lives in Pekhawar

For Yas245:

Brother why you do not go towards Genographics test? It will make you clearified about your actual tribe / origin and language ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mughalpathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 03:36
Originally posted by mughalpathan mughalpathan wrote:

About Mughal-Pathans:
 
Mughol-zai is a subtribe of GilZai or Tokhi tribe:
Tokhi (Ghilzai) A Ghalji (Ghilzai) tribe found throughout southern and western Afghanistan, although most heavily concentrated in Zabul and Uruzgan. Two main sub-tribes are the Muhammadzai (the largest) and Shamulzai (Shimalzai); other divisions include the Jalazai, Babakrzai, Miranzai, Jaffri, Pirozai (Pir Khel), and Kishaini.
 
Ghilzai pathans have been originated from Turkey.
 
(It may be possible that the people who are claiming themselves as Mughal-Pathans are actually Mughol-Zai from Ghilzai tribe)
 
Yesterday, I met a pasthun from Bannu; I just asked about his tribe. He was Yousaf-Zai with sub-tribe Mughal-Khel. I was suprized. It forced me to think deeply. It may be possible that Mughal-Zai / Mughal-Khel etc when came and started living in Punjab, they had been started to be called as Mughal-Pathans.
But I am not sure, as I have only this suspecion without reference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Indian Pathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 06:07
Originally posted by mughalpathan mughalpathan wrote:

For Indian Pathan:

Dear, I have a friend who is Mohmand but this time, he cannot speak pashto, he is hindkowan. He lives in Pekhawar

For Yas245:

Brother why you do not go towards Genographics test? It will make you clearified about your actual tribe / origin and language ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Indian Pathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 06:08
Thank you very much, yas and Mughal Pathan, very informative. Please keep it up.
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